The large roof span thread made me think of this.
You know the large timber houses in American films (.e.g Steve Martin's
in father of the bride - no comments on film taste please !). The
houses I'm thinking of often have openings rather than doors between
rooms, and rooms can be up to, say 10 metres width.
In the light of my recent forays into joists etc, these houses would
need huge joists to support the upstairs without too much deflection
etc. Anyone know what type of beams would be used (e.g. a whole tree !)
and what type of building regs they have in the US regarding this.
Thanks,
Simon.

wrote:
The large roof span thread made me think of this.
You know the large timber houses in American films (.e.g Steve Martin's
in father of the bride - no comments on film taste please !). The
houses I'm thinking of often have openings rather than doors between
rooms, and rooms can be up to, say 10 metres width.
In the light of my recent forays into joists etc, these houses would
need huge joists to support the upstairs without too much deflection
etc. Anyone know what type of beams would be used (e.g. a whole tree !)
and what type of building regs they have in the US regarding this.
Thanks,
Simon.

Think of the three little piggies, the house made of sticks, and what
happened when Mr.Wolf huffed and puffed...

On 24 Feb 2006 05:54:17 -0800 wrote :
Anyone know what type of beams would be used (e.g. a whole tree !)
and what type of building regs they have in the US regarding this.

Probably ply web I beams. See
http://www.howarth-timber.co.uk/timbeng_sile.php

The regs are not that different - apart from using imperial units.
At the end of the day if you apply a load of x to a particular piece
of timber it will deflect by y and no code can change this.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.12 released 8 Dec 2005]

Tony Bryer wrote:
On 24 Feb 2006 05:54:17 -0800 wrote :
Anyone know what type of beams would be used (e.g. a whole tree !)
and what type of building regs they have in the US regarding this.

Probably ply web I beams. See
http://www.howarth-timber.co.uk/timbeng_sile.php

The regs are not that different - apart from using imperial units.
At the end of the day if you apply a load of x to a particular piece
of timber it will deflect by y and no code can change this.


It seems a reasonable question to me, since the code could allow a
different value of y.

MBQ

On 24 Feb 2006 06:51:04 -0800 wrote :
It seems a reasonable question to me, since the code could allow a
different value of y.

That is fair comment: changing the code doesn't make anything weaker
or stronger, but different jurisdictions may, and sometimes do, have
different ideas about what factors of safety and deflections are
acceptable.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.12 released 8 Dec 2005]

"Fine Homebuilding" which is published by Taunton Press
(www.taunton.com) is a wonderful source of information and inspiration
on US houses. There was an article a few years back on beams which you
might be able to locate in their archives, pause for a few minutes
while she has a dig yes, "Engineered Lumber + The engineers' job site:
inventing a better glulam" was very informative on the geometry and
composition of these timber-based beams.

The downside of course is that their timber framed houses aren't as
strong as our masonry buildings - as my then very young son said on
watching scenes of devastation from some hurricane in Florida, "Haven't
they heard of the three little pigs?"

Pen

"pen" wrote in message
oups.com...
"Fine Homebuilding" which is published by Taunton Press
(www.taunton.com) is a wonderful source of information and inspiration
on US houses. There was an article a few years back on beams which you
might be able to locate in their archives, pause for a few minutes
while she has a dig yes, "Engineered Lumber + The engineers' job site:
inventing a better glulam" was very informative on the geometry and
composition of these timber-based beams.

The downside of course is that their timber
framed houses aren't as strong as our masonry
buildings - as my then very young son said on
watching scenes of devastation from some
hurricane in Florida, "Haven't
they heard of the three little pigs?"

They build timber frame in hurricane areas because it is cheaper for
insurance companies to rebuild. They use the existing slab, and all the
services are still there. A largely pre-fabbed house comes along and is
erected quite quickly on the existing slab There is method to the madness.

Houses using SIP panels are highly resistant to Hurricane and earthquakes.
SIP panelled houses in the Kobe earthquake all survived intact while those
around, masonry and timber frame, fell down. Timber homes can be as strong
and far better insulated than masonry.

I'm sure that's true for earthquake zones - though I remember reading
somewhere that traditional Japanese construction was lightweight to
minimise damage to people when it collapsed. I still think that
masonry buildings would survive "lesser" hurricanes far better than
standard American timber frames. Do they use pre-fab to any great
extent? I thought - though I may be out of date here - that they still
were very much into framing on site?

"pen" wrote in message
ups.com...

I'm sure that's true for earthquake zones - though I remember reading
somewhere that traditional Japanese construction was lightweight to
minimise damage to people when it collapsed.

SIP panels is recent innovation from the USA. The only way to build a
house.

I still think that
masonry buildings would survive "lesser" hurricanes far better than
standard American timber frames.

The typical modern British brick and block would fare no better. Most brick
and block are flimsy and consist of Paramount walls upstairs. Take away the
wood content of a British home and there is little left.

Do they use pre-fab to any great
extent?

A lot of it in the USA. SIP panels are gaining ground, as it is ion the UK
by smaller builders. The large British builders don't have much a clue on
how to build still sticking to brick and block outer walls.

I thought - though I may be out of date here - that they still
were very much into framing on site?

That is still common still today. Called stick built.

UK housebuilding is technologically backward in comparison with other
similar countries. Off-site pre-fab has been successful in other countries.
The Scandinavians pioneered, the Germans very good and the Japanese have
taken it to new levels. Paradoxically, It's widely used in Britain in
commercial building (the 10 acre Crystal Palace in 1951 was a pre-fabbed
building).

There is a huge financial incentive for the few large residential
construction companies to leave things as they are in residential
housebuilding. The real money is made on the land deals and the planning
gains (approx 2/3 of the house price is the land value in a country with a
land surplus and only 7.5% of the land settled). While off-site
construction can deliver houses quicker, it doesn't actually make them much
cheaper (although elsewhere they can) and UK housebuilders don't really want
quicker homes. They just want a steady drip feed of new houses onto the
market so they can sell them at inflated prices to buyers who have little
choice available to them.

Relax the planning so houses can be built almost anywhere. Make the
building regs tighter, so quality and energy efficiency is the highest and
we all benefit with lower house prices and larger homes to boot.

Isn't the UK problem with timber frame more down to a) the average
British weather, b) the average British builder? I would trust b) as
far as I could throw him when it came to wrapping up a timber frame
dwelling as tightly as a) requires. Traditional masonry seems a lot
more forgiving of inferior techniques. As to weight, I agree that
modern UK mass produced housing is pretty flimsy, especially upstairs,
but I guess local code requirements in FL could be written for masonry
buildings to require far greater density of construction material on
all stories. US roofs seem to lift off fairly easily too, in a way
that UK concrete tile wouldn't. Althought I admit to having seen
artificial slates peel off in a great slab during some particularly
strong winds in the Mendips.