Hi,

me again :-)

Looking through the Discounted Heating web site (the link from the 'which
boiler FAQ) there seem to be a lot of boilers which are not labelled as
'condensing'.

I thought all boilers now had to be 'condensing' unless you are in that
'back boiler in a mid terrace' situation.

I am looking for a 'combi with additional heat store' option but can't
seem to find this in any obvious way.

Are a lot of the boilers on this site now no longer usable under the new
regulations, or am I missing something?

For instance I was looking at the Ideal Istor HE range - boiler and
unvented cylinder in one unit - but the manufacturer's technical info.
seems to have disappeared.

Any pointers to similar units welcome.

I haven't yet found the Alpha unit, so don't know how much heat storage
this has.

Cheers

Dave R

David WE Roberts wrote:
Are a lot of the boilers on this site now no longer usable under the new
regulations, or am I missing something?

Not long ago I expressed some surprise to a plumbers' merchant at the
number of non-condensing boilers on sale, which seemed to me to be
disproportionate to the amount of installations where such a model would
still be permitted, and he just shrugged his shoulders in that
"I-couldn't-possibly-comment" sort of way...

David

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 15:09:07 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

|David WE Roberts wrote:
| Are a lot of the boilers on this site now no longer usable under the new
| regulations, or am I missing something?
|
|Not long ago I expressed some surprise to a plumbers' merchant at the
|number of non-condensing boilers on sale, which seemed to me to be
|disproportionate to the amount of installations where such a model would
|still be permitted, and he just shrugged his shoulders in that
|"I-couldn't-possibly-comment" sort of way...

I know of a non condensing boiler installed recently in a non domestic
situation. As it only runs a few hour per week it makes perfect economic
sense, as the extra cost of condensing would never be recouped.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk
Freedom of Speech, Expression, Religion, and Democracy are
the keys to Civilization, together with legal acceptance of
Fundamental Human rights.

"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 15:09:07 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

|David WE Roberts wrote:
| Are a lot of the boilers on this site now no longer usable under the
new
| regulations, or am I missing something?
|
|Not long ago I expressed some surprise to a plumbers' merchant at the
|number of non-condensing boilers on sale, which seemed to me to be
|disproportionate to the amount of installations where such a model would
|still be permitted, and he just shrugged his shoulders in that
|"I-couldn't-possibly-comment" sort of way...

I know of a non condensing boiler installed recently in a non domestic
situation. As it only runs a few hour per week it makes perfect
economic
sense, as the extra cost of condensing would never be recouped.

Condensing and non-condensing boilers now are about the same price.

"David WE Roberts" wrote in message
news
Hi,

me again :-)
I haven't yet found the Alpha unit, so don't know how much heat storage
this has.

Cheers

Dave R

Have a look at www.alpha-boilers.co.uk

Mogweed.

"Mogweed" wrote in message
...

"David WE Roberts" wrote in message
news
Hi,

me again :-) I haven't yet found the Alpha unit, so don't know how much
heat storage
this has.

Have a look at www.alpha-boilers.co.uk

The thing about these stored water combi's is that control system is
designed to bring in the boiler to put all its heat into the water store as
water is being drawn-off ASAP. So, say a 60 litre unit will deliver far
more than 60 litres of hot water. Those that have integral heat banks:
Viessmann, W-Bosch, Gledhill, etc, may store water at 80C and blend it down,
so more 'energy' is stored in the unit. Looking at say 60 litres and saying
I have a 125 litre bath and it will not fill it, is not how they perform in
real life. They also recover the full store from cold in a matter of
minutes. Most are two flowrate levels. Full belt using the stored water
and down to a lower instant rate when the store is exhausted. You 'never'
run out of hot water.

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 12:28:17 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Mogweed" wrote in message
...

"David WE Roberts" wrote in message
news
Hi,

me again :-) I haven't yet found the Alpha unit, so don't know how much
heat storage
this has.

Have a look at www.alpha-boilers.co.uk

The thing about these stored water combi's is that control system is
designed to bring in the boiler to put all its heat into the water store as
water is being drawn-off ASAP. So, say a 60 litre unit will deliver far
more than 60 litres of hot water. Those that have integral heat banks:
Viessmann, W-Bosch, Gledhill, etc, may store water at 80C and blend it down,
so more 'energy' is stored in the unit. Looking at say 60 litres and saying
I have a 125 litre bath and it will not fill it, is not how they perform in
real life. They also recover the full store from cold in a matter of
minutes. Most are two flowrate levels. Full belt using the stored water
and down to a lower instant rate when the store is exhausted. You 'never'
run out of hot water.

Speaking from my personal experience (A WB Highflow 440). It does
drop down to a lower rate (I have to turn the hot tap down or I get
cool water) after my large (1800x800) bath is around half full.

For the smaller bath 1600x700. It is nearly full before the rate
drops.

I have deliberately not been too precise here as the above varies
depending on the cold water temperature.

When the thermal store is empty (I assume) I have to turn the tap down
in order to get hot water. I have never noticed an issue with showers
or kitchen taps etc.

Mark

"Mark" wrote in message
...
Have a look at www.alpha-boilers.co.uk

The thing about these stored water combi's is that control system is
designed to bring in the boiler to put all its heat into the water store
as water is being drawn-off ASAP. So, say a 60 litre unit will deliver
far
more than 60 litres of hot water. Those that have integral heat banks:
Viessmann, W-Bosch, Gledhill, etc, may store water at 80C and blend it
down,
so more 'energy' is stored in the unit.
Looking at say 60 litres and saying
I have a 125 litre bath and it will not fill it,
is not how they perform in real life. They
also recover the full store from cold in a
matter of minutes. Most are two flowrate
levels. Full belt using the stored water
and down to a lower instant rate when the
store is exhausted. You 'never' run out of
hot water.

Speaking from my personal experience
(A WB Highflow 440). It does drop down
to a lower rate (I have to turn the hot tap down or I get
cool water) after my large (1800x800) bath is around half full.

That is biggish. But the "overall" fill time must be reasonable though

For the smaller bath 1600x700. It is nearly full before the rate
drops.

So, a fast fill and it recovers in minutes.

I have deliberately not been too precise here as the above varies
depending on the cold water temperature.

When the thermal store is empty (I assume)
I have to turn the tap down in order to get hot
water. I have never noticed an issue with showers
or kitchen taps etc.

The Alpha CD50 actually lowers the flowrate for you, to maintain hot water
at a lower flowrate. I'm not sure if the newer HighFlow Greenstar does this
too. Nevertheless your Highflow "never" runs out of hot water and will
recover the store in minutes. I don't think you are dissatisfied with it.

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 12:28:19 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

Speaking from my personal experience
(A WB Highflow 440). It does drop down
to a lower rate (I have to turn the hot tap down or I get
cool water) after my large (1800x800) bath is around half full.

That is biggish. But the "overall" fill time must be reasonable though

It depends on what you mean by reasonable ;-) It's slower than my old
vented cylinder system, but faster than other combi boilers I have
experienced.

For the smaller bath 1600x700. It is nearly full before the rate
drops.

So, a fast fill and it recovers in minutes.

I omitted to mention that the recovery rate is indeed very quick.

I have deliberately not been too precise here as the above varies
depending on the cold water temperature.

When the thermal store is empty (I assume)
I have to turn the tap down in order to get hot
water. I have never noticed an issue with showers
or kitchen taps etc.

The Alpha CD50 actually lowers the flowrate for you, to maintain hot water
at a lower flowrate. I'm not sure if the newer HighFlow Greenstar does this
too. Nevertheless your Highflow "never" runs out of hot water and will
recover the store in minutes. I don't think you are dissatisfied with it.

The Highflow does not reduce the flowrate - the water just goes cool.
As I said in my previous post I have to turn down the hot tap to get
hot water at this point.

As regards to my satisfaction. It was the best I could afford. To
that aim it is very good. However if I had more funds and space I
would have chosen a different solution.

Mark

David WE Roberts wrote:

I haven't yet found the Alpha unit, so don't know how much heat storage
this has.

One thing to note about the Alpha CD50 that's not immediately obvious is
that it's 600mm wide, as opposed to the usual 450mm....

Ben

Where would the manufacturers warranty issue be with non-condensing
boilers. Are they bothered?

On 20 Feb 2006 02:57:19 -0800, wrote:

Where would the manufacturers warranty issue be with non-condensing
boilers. Are they bothered?

Presumably the products would still be covered under warranty.

sponix

On 20 Feb 2006 02:57:19 -0800, wrote:

Where would the manufacturers warranty issue be with non-condensing
boilers. Are they bothered?


There is no restriction on the sale of non condensing boilers, only
the installation.

Therefore there is no reason for the manufacturer not to honour the
warranty.


--

..andy

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 10:48:02 +0000, Ben Blaukopf
wrote:

One thing to note about the Alpha CD50 that's not immediately obvious is
that it's 600mm wide, as opposed to the usual 450mm....

So just 1200mm wide for a pair (plus a bit of gap), just the thing for
unlimited lukewarm water on tap any time of day or night.


--

"Matt" aka Lord Hall wrote in message
news
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 10:48:02 +0000, Ben Blaukopf
wrote:

One thing to note about the Alpha CD50 that's not immediately obvious is
that it's 600mm wide, as opposed to the usual 450mm....

So just 1200mm wide for a pair (plus a bit of gap), just the thing for
unlimited lukewarm water on tap any time of day or night.

Lord Hall you are at it again today I see.

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:30:21 +0000, David WE Roberts
wrote:

Looking through the Discounted Heating web site (the link from the 'which
boiler FAQ) there seem to be a lot of boilers which are not labelled as
'condensing'.

I thought all boilers now had to be 'condensing' unless you are in that
'back boiler in a mid terrace' situation.

It is far easier to get an exemption than people realise.

sponix

"Sponix" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:30:21 +0000, David WE Roberts
wrote:

Looking through the Discounted Heating web site (the link from the 'which
boiler FAQ) there seem to be a lot of boilers which are not labelled as
'condensing'.

I thought all boilers now had to be 'condensing' unless you are in that
'back boiler in a mid terrace' situation.

It is far easier to get an exemption than people realise.

Not so. Look at the form. You need a good case not to have a
non-condesning boioer. With gas prices rising high than a kite people will
'want' condensing boilers.

"David WE Roberts" wrote in message
news
Hi,

me again :-)

Looking through the Discounted Heating web site (the link from the 'which
boiler FAQ) there seem to be a lot of boilers which are not labelled as
'condensing'.

I thought all boilers now had to be 'condensing' unless you are in that
'back boiler in a mid terrace' situation.

New regulations do not apply in Sctoland (yet, anyway)...