Wonder if anyone has an idea how I can avoid calling a locksmith in
future :-} (barring the obvious from the paragraph below)

Me and the missus both tried to open the front door from both sides at
once, and the locking lever managed to find itself ~90 degrees out of
where it should have been.

No amount of wangling with the keys would reset the position, and the
door wasn`t lockable due to the position of the operating lever and
the relative position of the keys - the keys would only be released
when the operating lever was in the "wrong" position on the door,
which meant the mortice protruded about 5mm and the door wouldn`t
close.

Is there a knack to being able to reset the operating lever, rather
than having to replace the lock barrel ?

--- Please add "newsgroup" in the subject of any personal replies ---
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On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:20:32 -0000, Colin Wilson
wrote:

Wonder if anyone has an idea how I can avoid calling a locksmith in
future :-} (barring the obvious from the paragraph below)

Me and the missus both tried to open the front door from both sides at
once, and the locking lever managed to find itself ~90 degrees out of
where it should have been.

No amount of wangling with the keys would reset the position, and the
door wasn`t lockable due to the position of the operating lever and
the relative position of the keys - the keys would only be released
when the operating lever was in the "wrong" position on the door,
which meant the mortice protruded about 5mm and the door wouldn`t
close.

Is there a knack to being able to reset the operating lever, rather
than having to replace the lock barrel ?

Why worry about replacing it when "anybody can easily break one of
these locks in under 5 seconds". (Mail on Saturday).

Anybody care to comment on this "secret" that has now been revealed?

I would like some security on my front door.

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:20:32 -0000, Colin Wilson
wrote:

Wonder if anyone has an idea how I can avoid calling a locksmith in
future :-} (barring the obvious from the paragraph below)

Me and the missus both tried to open the front door from both sides at
once, and the locking lever managed to find itself ~90 degrees out of
where it should have been.

No amount of wangling with the keys would reset the position, and the
door wasn`t lockable due to the position of the operating lever and
the relative position of the keys - the keys would only be released
when the operating lever was in the "wrong" position on the door,
which meant the mortice protruded about 5mm and the door wouldn`t
close.

Is there a knack to being able to reset the operating lever, rather
than having to replace the lock barrel ?

Why should it be the barrel?
You can remove the barrel by removing the long screw to be found
slightly higher than the lock on the edge of the door then rotate the
key in the lock about 45 degrees and it should pull out.

I Think the problem is either the mortice lock is broken or needs
adjusting. There is often a screw which needs tightening on occasions.
If the lock broken then you have a *big* problem as they are not
standard, your best hope would be to contact the door manuacturer with
fingers crossed.

Removing the mortice lock usualy goes something like this:

Remove handles and spindle, remove barrel as above, unscrew the metal
strip on the edge( The screws that connect the strip to the shoot
bolts at the top and bottom and to the mortice dont always need
removing so you can save time by not doing so).

I assume by "operating lever" you mean latch, in which case hopefully
it is just a simple tightening of a screw at the back of the mortice
lock.

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:16:05 GMT, EricP
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:20:32 -0000, Colin Wilson
wrote:

Wonder if anyone has an idea how I can avoid calling a locksmith in
future :-} (barring the obvious from the paragraph below)

Me and the missus both tried to open the front door from both sides at
once, and the locking lever managed to find itself ~90 degrees out of
where it should have been.

No amount of wangling with the keys would reset the position, and the
door wasn`t lockable due to the position of the operating lever and
the relative position of the keys - the keys would only be released
when the operating lever was in the "wrong" position on the door,
which meant the mortice protruded about 5mm and the door wouldn`t
close.

Is there a knack to being able to reset the operating lever, rather
than having to replace the lock barrel ?

Why worry about replacing it when "anybody can easily break one of
these locks in under 5 seconds". (Mail on Saturday).

Anybody care to comment on this "secret" that has now been revealed?

I would like some security on my front door.


Is this just PVC doors or all Eurolocks?
Any links?

EricP wrote:

Why worry about replacing it when "anybody can easily break one of
these locks in under 5 seconds". (Mail on Saturday).

Anybody care to comment on this "secret" that has now been
revealed?

If this is true, I would be surprised that it hadn't been raised in forums
like this before. I wonder if this is an example of that chip-wrapper's
unthinking aversion to anything 'euro'..... ?

marble wrote:

Why worry about replacing it when "anybody can easily break one of
these locks in under 5 seconds". (Mail on Saturday).

Anybody care to comment on this "secret" that has now been revealed?

I would like some security on my front door.

Is this just PVC doors or all Eurolocks?
Any links?

Someone showed me this article yesterday too: it referred specifically
to the type of lock which has locking mechanisms all down the opening
edge, and where you need to lift the door handle to engage the lock
before turning the key - not sure whether that implies "all PVC doors"
or "all Eurolocks"!

IIRC it was down to some retired locksmith-type person playing around
with one; all it required was 5 secs use of a simple tool (no more
specifics given).

I just looked for a link but there doesn't seem to be one on the Mail's
site.

If anyone does know how it's done, then for obvious reasons it's
probably not a good idea to broadcast it here, but I'd quite like to
know what I should be doing to render mine 'safe'!

David

Lobster wrote:

If anyone does know how it's done, then for obvious reasons it's
probably not a good idea to broadcast it here, but I'd quite like
to know what I should be doing to render mine 'safe'!

I can't see any way for us to all know how to render our doors safe unless
it's 'broadcasted'. However, I still have degree of scepticism towards the
original claim.

Is there a knack to being able to reset the operating lever, rather
than having to replace the lock barrel ?
Why should it be the barrel?
You can remove the barrel by removing the long screw to be found
slightly higher than the lock on the edge of the door then rotate the
key in the lock about 45 degrees and it should pull out.

I think its normally about 30 degrees, from "flush" with the barrel,
but ours was more like 135 degrees (90 degrees from where it should
have been)

I Think the problem is either the mortice lock is broken or needs
adjusting.
I assume by "operating lever" you mean latch, in which case hopefully
it is just a simple tightening of a screw at the back of the mortice
lock.

As I said above, the barrel itself went askew, the locking mech on the
door itself was fine* - as was confirmed by dropping in a new barrel
with "normal" alignment. By operating lever, I mean the moving part in
the middle of the lock barrel.

* he even commented that he had the same mech on his own door, but
ours was the smoothest action he`d ever come across on that type of
door

The chap who came out said he sees them on a regular basis in exactly
that condition, and hasn`t yet figured out why - he laughed and told
me he`d been threatening to take one apart to figure it out for ages.

--
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Ok so what is a Eurolock, never heard of one.
So that I can check my main door :-(
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk
Freedom of Speech, Expression, Religion, and Democracy are
the keys to Civilization, together with legal acceptance of
Fundamental Human rights.

"Colin Wilson" wrote in message
t...
Wonder if anyone has an idea how I can avoid calling a locksmith in
future :-} (barring the obvious from the paragraph below)

Me and the missus both tried to open the front door from both sides at
once, and the locking lever managed to find itself ~90 degrees out of
where it should have been.

Some of these locks just have a knob on the inside. So you can always get out!

http://www.lockcentre.com/prodpage.c...KE N=11828419


--

Michael Chare

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 18:38:42 -0000, "Michael Chare"
wrote:

"Colin Wilson" wrote in message
et...
Wonder if anyone has an idea how I can avoid calling a locksmith in
future :-} (barring the obvious from the paragraph below)

Me and the missus both tried to open the front door from both sides at
once, and the locking lever managed to find itself ~90 degrees out of
where it should have been.

Some of these locks just have a knob on the inside. So you can always get out!

http://www.lockcentre.com/prodpage.c...KE N=11828419

I spotted those the other day and my first thought was 'what a good
idea' .. easier to get out in case of a fire' etc.

Then I realised that it would also be easier for a burgular to get out
with armfulls of gear (rather than having to climb back out through
the broken window etc)?

It might (depending on if they are just turnable knobs rather than
'press/ turn' etc) also make it easier to break in ..?

All the best ..

T i m

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 17:01:37 +0000, Dave Fawthrop
wrote:


Ok so what is a Eurolock, never heard of one.
So that I can check my main door :-(

That brass / chrome large keyhole profile thing that you may have near
the door handle on yer dg door where other folk have Yale / Chub
locks? ;-)

It is of continuous section, would be about the same length as your
door (and furniture) is thick and is held in place by a single machine
screw set at 90 deg to the lock and in through the doors outer edge.

The 'tang' that holds the (often multipoint) mech in in the 'locked'
position also stops the lock itself being removed by just shearing the
retaining screw (it's only about 5mm? dia).

Sometimes the ratio of the bit between tang and outside is equal to
that of the inner bit and sometimes not. ;-)

IHTH ;-)

T i m

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 16:35:58 -0000, "Steve Walker"
wrote:

Lobster wrote:

If anyone does know how it's done, then for obvious reasons it's
probably not a good idea to broadcast it here, but I'd quite like
to know what I should be doing to render mine 'safe'!

I can't see any way for us to all know how to render our doors safe unless
it's 'broadcasted'. However, I still have degree of scepticism towards the
original claim.

Like pretty well anything with a lock it can be opened without key.

If it's being opened by a locksmith he would have suitable 'tools' to
do this (as you would imagine / hope). Similar concept to the AA
getting into your car etc .. sometimes it can be done cleanly with
'tools', sometimes stuff must get broken (eg glass) ;-(

Therefore it's not difficult to imagine the same tools could get into
the wrong hands ... ;-(

Some locks could be more vunerable to one form of (fast) attack
depending on how they were sized / fitted ..

All the best ..

T i m

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:35:25 GMT, marble
wrote:

Why worry about replacing it when "anybody can easily break one of
these locks in under 5 seconds". (Mail on Saturday).

Anybody care to comment on this "secret" that has now been revealed?

I would like some security on my front door.


Is this just PVC doors or all Eurolocks?
Any links?

It was the usual reveal-a-secret type scare. Basically it was that
anyone can easily break this type of lock, They said Eurolocks but did
qualify it by saying it was the type where you have to hold the handle
up whilst turning the key to lock it. You don't have to hold the
handle up to lock on mine, the only joy in their piece.

Sounds like you can break them by inserting something into the barrel
and lifting the handle.

I had hoped someone here would be informed about it.

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 14:46:37 -0000, "Steve Walker"
wrote:

EricP wrote:

Why worry about replacing it when "anybody can easily break one of
these locks in under 5 seconds". (Mail on Saturday).

Anybody care to comment on this "secret" that has now been
revealed?

If this is true, I would be surprised that it hadn't been raised in forums
like this before. I wonder if this is an example of that chip-wrapper's
unthinking aversion to anything 'euro'..... ?

It was certainly the usual frightener revealed in the most unhelpful
manner.

Just enough info to frighten but nothing of real substance to qualify
the information.

EricP wrote:

Sounds like you can break them by inserting something into the
barrel and lifting the handle.

Ah, I see. 'Break' is of course quite different to 'break into'

"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
...

Ok so what is a Eurolock, never heard of one.

The correct name is Europrofile. They have the cylinder separate from the
lock, so that you can change the keying without changing the entire lock
mechanism. Some low security (5 pin) cylinders are shown he

http://shopping.kelkoo.co.uk/ctl/do/...catId=1431 01

For higher security, the cylinders are also available with six or seven
pins.

Colin Bignell

"Colin Wilson" wrote in message
t...
....
I think its normally about 30 degrees, from "flush" with the barrel,
but ours was more like 135 degrees (90 degrees from where it should
have been)

....
The chap who came out said he sees them on a regular basis in exactly
that condition, and hasn`t yet figured out why - he laughed and told
me he`d been threatening to take one apart to figure it out for ages.

There is a small mechanism between the cylinders that allows the operating
lug to be turned by one cylinder without the other needing to turn. I could
see that wear in the mechanism could result in the problem you describe. In
good quality locks, it is made from brass or steel. In cheap locks it may be
made from something softer; plastic or a casting metal, for example.

Colin Bignell

There is a small mechanism between the cylinders that allows the operating
lug to be turned by one cylinder without the other needing to turn. I could
see that wear in the mechanism could result in the problem you describe. In
good quality locks, it is made from brass or steel. In cheap locks it may be
made from something softer; plastic or a casting metal, for example.

It looked like plastic on ours, but it was tight as a ducks ass,
definitely no play in it whatsoever.

--
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On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 23:02:57 GMT, EricP
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:35:25 GMT, marble
wrote:
Is this just PVC doors or all Eurolocks?
Any links?

It was the usual reveal-a-secret type scare. Basically it was that
anyone can easily break this type of lock, They said Eurolocks but did
qualify it by saying it was the type where you have to hold the handle
up whilst turning the key to lock it. You don't have to hold the
handle up to lock on mine, the only joy in their piece.

Same here, the "hold lifted while locking" did imply good news. But as
the article is shoddy journalism at its worst, my hopes are still low.
Reading on it says "[the problem] has been addressed across Europe
[DM's Europe excludes the UK] but 22 million doors in Britain are
still vulnerable". OK, who counted all those 22mil? And what lock
types are vulnerable? But the good news is that "all police forces
are now being told of the method but are keeping it secret". Phew!
Luckily the boys in blue never leak such things, do they?


I had hoped someone here would be informed about it.
Me2. Nothing on the referred "Secured by Design" site (remove the
spaces and add dot com to get to that but keep expectations low).

--
New anti-spam address cmylod at despammed dot com

Colum Mylod wrote:

Same here, the "hold lifted while locking" did imply good news.
But as the article is shoddy journalism at its worst, my hopes
are still low. Reading on it says "[the problem] has been
addressed across Europe [DM's Europe excludes the UK] but 22
million doors in Britain are still vulnerable".

Unlikely that this problem could be widely known on the continent, but still
a secret in Blighty. I think you're right to diagnose shoddy journalism.

"Colin Wilson" wrote in message
t...
There is a small mechanism between the cylinders that allows the
operating
lug to be turned by one cylinder without the other needing to turn. I
could
see that wear in the mechanism could result in the problem you describe.
In
good quality locks, it is made from brass or steel. In cheap locks it may
be
made from something softer; plastic or a casting metal, for example.

It looked like plastic on ours, but it was tight as a ducks ass,
definitely no play in it whatsoever.

I would not be surprised, if you are describing it after the lug had rotated
to the wrong position. Wear could allow the lug to force its way past the
bits that rotate it and it would only stop when it reached a position where
it was held fast again. Unfortunately, that would not be where you wanted it
to be.

Colin Bignell