Hi
What sort of tape do you need to use over copper pipes under a concrete
floor? Can you buy pipe which is already coated with an appropriate
covering?

Grumps wrote:

What sort of tape do you need to use over copper pipes under a concrete
floor?

Denso tape or one of the equivilents.

Can you buy pipe which is already coated with an appropriate
covering?

You can get plastic coated pipe. See http://www.bes.ltd.uk and look at
the copper pipe section.

Or if you are *not* carrying gas, you could use plastic pipe instead.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
Grumps wrote:

What sort of tape do you need to use over copper pipes under a
concrete floor?

Denso tape or one of the equivilents.

Can you buy pipe which is already coated with an appropriate
covering?

You can get plastic coated pipe. See http://www.bes.ltd.uk and look at
the copper pipe section.

Or if you are *not* carrying gas, you could use plastic pipe instead.

Thanks.
It's just for water to central heating radiators.

Grumps wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

What sort of tape do you need to use over copper pipes under a
concrete floor?

Denso tape or one of the equivilents.

Actually anything to seal the copper from the calcium will do. Or you
could make a box out of batton and ply to let you get at it should it
ever leak. You won't need to insulate it then.

Grumps wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
Grumps wrote:

What sort of tape do you need to use over copper pipes under a
concrete floor?
Denso tape or one of the equivilents.

Can you buy pipe which is already coated with an appropriate
covering?
You can get plastic coated pipe. See http://www.bes.ltd.uk and look at
the copper pipe section.

Or if you are *not* carrying gas, you could use plastic pipe instead.

Thanks.
It's just for water to central heating radiators.


I would definitely use plastic then, and wrap in foam to prevent heat
loss and or localised cracking.

Its dead easy to join to copper at each end.

"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message
oups.com...

Grumps wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

What sort of tape do you need to use over copper pipes under a
concrete floor?

Denso tape or one of the equivilents.

Actually anything to seal the copper from the calcium will do.

I made the mistake of using some gooy tape on a vertical run. The problem was
the hot water melted the goo!


--

Michael Chare

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Grumps wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
Grumps wrote:

What sort of tape do you need to use over copper pipes under a
concrete floor?
Denso tape or one of the equivilents.

Can you buy pipe which is already coated with an appropriate
covering?
You can get plastic coated pipe. See http://www.bes.ltd.uk and look
at the copper pipe section.

Or if you are *not* carrying gas, you could use plastic pipe
instead.

Thanks.
It's just for water to central heating radiators.


I would definitely use plastic then, and wrap in foam to prevent heat
loss and or localised cracking.

Its dead easy to join to copper at each end.

Any idea of the cost for a plumber to hang two rads, route one set of pipes
from the first rad, through a wall and on to the second rad. Tee off
horizontally from the centre of this run, and join up to the existing
pipework some 3m away. I estimate about 8 3m pipes, two TRVs, and other
bits. Location: Berkshire.

John Rumm wrote:

Or if you are *not* carrying gas, you could use plastic pipe instead.

ROFL.

Round here they have spent three months digging up the old gas main
and laying plastic replacement, right up the meter.

It was absolute chaos as the plans were wrong and they had to dig up
everyone's garage hardstanding to find where things went. Parking was
a nightmare.....

John Rumm wrote:
Grumps wrote:

What sort of tape do you need to use over copper pipes under a
concrete floor?

Denso tape or one of the equivilents.

Can you buy pipe which is already coated with an appropriate
covering?

You can get plastic coated pipe. See http://www.bes.ltd.uk and look at
the copper pipe section.

Or if you are *not* carrying gas, you could use plastic pipe instead.

Maybe a stupid question, but how much would a 3m length of copper pipe
expand when increased in temperture by 50 degrees? If it is embedded in a 3"
concrete floor, will it be compressed and buckle?

"Grumps" wrote in message
...
John Rumm wrote:
Grumps wrote:

What sort of tape do you need to use over copper pipes under a
concrete floor?

Denso tape or one of the equivilents.

Can you buy pipe which is already coated with an appropriate
covering?

You can get plastic coated pipe. See http://www.bes.ltd.uk and look at
the copper pipe section.

Or if you are *not* carrying gas, you could use plastic pipe instead.

Maybe a stupid question, but how much would a 3m length of copper pipe
expand when increased in temperture by 50 degrees?

About 2.5mm along its length (coeff. of linear expansion 1.7E-5 /K)

If it is embedded in a 3" concrete floor, will it be compressed and buckle?

Probably not.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Grumps wrote:
Maybe a stupid question, but how much would a 3m length of copper pipe
expand when increased in temperture by 50 degrees?

2 1/2 mm approx.


If it is embedded in a 3"
concrete floor, will it be compressed and buckle?

Maybe - depends on what shape the run is.

wrote:
On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 09:36:34 -0000, "Grumps"
wrote:

Hi
What sort of tape do you need to use over copper pipes under a
concrete floor? Can you buy pipe which is already coated with an
appropriate covering?

Place a plastic sleeve [ pipe ] in the concrete, make it way oversize
for the copper tube. When the slab has set, run the copper line thru'
it. Believe me, one day your gonna be very glad you did.

Why?
Is this better than using pre-coated copper pipe?

Chris Bacon wrote:
Grumps wrote:
Maybe a stupid question, but how much would a 3m length of copper
pipe expand when increased in temperture by 50 degrees?

2 1/2 mm approx.


If it is embedded in a 3"
concrete floor, will it be compressed and buckle?

Maybe - depends on what shape the run is.

The longest run could be 4-5m.
So, take the max of 5m, the pipe will expand by over 4mm. I'm not sure how
to cope with this.

Grumps wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
Grumps wrote:
Maybe a stupid question, but how much would a 3m length of copper
pipe expand when increased in temperture by 50 degrees?
2 1/2 mm approx.

If it is embedded in a 3"
concrete floor, will it be compressed and buckle?

Maybe - depends on what shape the run is.

The longest run could be 4-5m.
So, take the max of 5m, the pipe will expand by over 4mm. I'm not sure how
to cope with this.

What shape is the run going to be? How's your ASCII art?

Chris Bacon wrote:
Grumps wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
Grumps wrote:
Maybe a stupid question, but how much would a 3m length of copper
pipe expand when increased in temperture by 50 degrees?
2 1/2 mm approx.

If it is embedded in a 3"
concrete floor, will it be compressed and buckle?

Maybe - depends on what shape the run is.

The longest run could be 4-5m.
So, take the max of 5m, the pipe will expand by over 4mm. I'm not
sure how to cope with this.

What shape is the run going to be?
Dead straight, 4.5m (I just measured it).

How's your ASCII art?
Poor.

On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 09:36:34 -0000, "Grumps"
wrote:

Hi
What sort of tape do you need to use over copper pipes under a concrete
floor? Can you buy pipe which is already coated with an appropriate
covering?



You can use normal copper pipe wrapped in Denso tape or plastic coated
copper pipe.

However, I think that a better solution would be to use plastic
barrier pipe and run it in corrugated plastic sleeve intended for the
purpose. That way, if there is ever a need to replace, it can be
done without excavating the floor.

http://www.johnguest.com/part_spec.asp?s=BCON_S1


--

..andy

Grumps wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
What shape is the run going to be?

Dead straight, 4.5m (I just measured it).

But what's at each end?

Chris Bacon wrote:
Grumps wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
What shape is the run going to be?

Dead straight, 4.5m (I just measured it).

But what's at each end?

The radiators.
The feed (and return) will be tee'd into the middle of this run.
(Please don't tell me you need to see my ASCII art)

Grumps wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
Grumps wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
What shape is the run going to be?
Dead straight, 4.5m (I just measured it).
But what's at each end?

The radiators.
The feed (and return) will be tee'd into the middle of this run.
(Please don't tell me you need to see my ASCII art)

You said "hang two rads, route one set of pipes from the first rad,
through a wall and on to the second rad. Tee off horizontally from
the centre of this run, and join up to the existing pipework some
3m away.

So you want:

wall
rad @@ rad
############## @@ #############
############## @@ #############
############## @@ #############
############## @@ #############
| | @@ | |
|_________ | _______________________| |
|_________________\________________|
4.5m pipe run - @@ \ \
\ \
\ \ Tee'd off to existing
\ \ 3m away

Is that something like? All in concrete?

Chris Bacon wrote:
Grumps wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
Grumps wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
What shape is the run going to be?
Dead straight, 4.5m (I just measured it).
But what's at each end?

The radiators.
The feed (and return) will be tee'd into the middle of this run.
(Please don't tell me you need to see my ASCII art)

You said "hang two rads, route one set of pipes from the first rad,
through a wall and on to the second rad. Tee off horizontally from
the centre of this run, and join up to the existing pipework some
3m away.

So you want:

wall
rad @@ rad
############## @@ #############
############## @@ #############
############## @@ #############
############## @@ #############
| | @@ | |
|_________ | _______________________| |
|_________________\________________|
4.5m pipe run - @@ \ \
\ \
\ \ Tee'd off to existing
\ \ 3m away

Is that something like? All in concrete?

Exactly. I will definitely need to improve my ASCII art. I got nowhere near
as good a drawing as that.

Kate wrote:

John Rumm wrote:


Or if you are *not* carrying gas, you could use plastic pipe instead.


ROFL.

Round here they have spent three months digging up the old gas main
and laying plastic replacement, right up the meter.

Not exactly speedfit or Hep20 though is it! ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

Kate wrote:

Round here they have spent three months digging up the old gas main
and laying plastic replacement, right up the meter.

Not exactly speedfit or Hep20 though is it! ;-)

Well, the couplings for the individual house feeds looked a bit
cheap-and-cheerful, they had to do mine twice, blanking off the first
attempt.

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 01:07:35 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Kate wrote:

John Rumm wrote:


Or if you are *not* carrying gas, you could use plastic pipe instead.


ROFL.

Round here they have spent three months digging up the old gas main
and laying plastic replacement, right up the meter.

Not exactly speedfit or Hep20 though is it! ;-)

I wonder how they cut it?


--

..andy

So if you wanted could you use a regular copper pipe, put pipe insulation around it, tape up the joints with gaffer/duct tape and then concrete it into the slab?

Cordless Crazy wrote:

So if you wanted could you use a regular copper pipe, put pipe
insulation around it, tape up the joints with gaffer/duct tape and then
concrete it into the slab?

Yup - as long as you chose an insulation where the wet mortar would not
soak through it while wet



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
Cordless Crazy wrote:

So if you wanted could you use a regular copper pipe, put pipe
insulation around it, tape up the joints with gaffer/duct tape and then
concrete it into the slab?

Yup - as long as you chose an insulation where the wet mortar would not
soak through it while wet



On possibility is to use standard insulation round the pipe and then
either tape, or better still, use a bit of trunking

Grumps wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
So you want:

wall
rad @@ rad
############## @@ #############
############## @@ #############
############## @@ #############
############## @@ #############
| | @@ | |
|_________ | _______________________| |
|_________________\________________|
4.5m pipe run - @@ \ \
\ \
\ \ Tee'd off to existing
\ \ 3m away

Is that something like? All in concrete?


Exactly. I will definitely need to improve my ASCII art. I got nowhere near
as good a drawing as that.

Um. The 3m runs to existing pipework aren't an issue, as long as
there's a bit of give at that end, and/or the long runs through
the wall have some room for sideways movement. The 4.5m runs
through the wall will put some strain on the connections to the
radiator, though, which will have to be taken by flexing in the
vertical connections if the runs are exactly like this. You'd
be better off like this (I'll only do the LH rad. connection):

##########
##########
| |
| |
\ \
\ \____________________
\_____________________\_____
\ \
\ \

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On possibility is to use standard insulation round the pipe and then
either tape, or better still, use a bit of trunking

For the OP's situation he needs a fair amount of free play in the
piping, so a trunking would be useful.

Chris Bacon wrote:
Grumps wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
So you want:

wall
rad @@ rad
############## @@ #############
############## @@ #############
############## @@ #############
############## @@ #############
| | @@ | |
|_________ | _______________________| |
|_________________\________________|
4.5m pipe run - @@ \ \
\ \
\ \ Tee'd off to
existing \ \ 3m away

Is that something like? All in concrete?


Exactly. I will definitely need to improve my ASCII art. I got
nowhere near as good a drawing as that.

Um. The 3m runs to existing pipework aren't an issue, as long as
there's a bit of give at that end, and/or the long runs through
the wall have some room for sideways movement. The 4.5m runs
through the wall will put some strain on the connections to the
radiator, though, which will have to be taken by flexing in the
vertical connections if the runs are exactly like this. You'd
be better off like this (I'll only do the LH rad. connection):

##########
##########
| |
| |
\ \
\ \____________________
\_____________________\_____
\ \
\ \

That makes a lot of sense.
Of course, it now goes OT as my wife has decided that I'm too slow and we'll
get a plumber in (not d-i-y any more). Do you think Mr Plumber will consider
the expansion issues? I'm going to have to find a tactful way of telling him
his job.

Chris Bacon wrote:

For the OP's situation he needs a fair amount of free play in the
piping, so a trunking would be useful.

He only needs a few mm of expansion room in total along the length.

Personally I would bury plastic sleeving pipe and then run speedfit
through it, then there is no need to worry about additional pipe
protection and accommodating movement.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:35:47 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Chris Bacon wrote:

For the OP's situation he needs a fair amount of free play in the
piping, so a trunking would be useful.

He only needs a few mm of expansion room in total along the length.

Personally I would bury plastic sleeving pipe and then run speedfit
through it, then there is no need to worry about additional pipe
protection and accommodating movement.


There is more expansion with Speedfit than with copper, but I think
that this is a more sensible solution. As long as the pipe is cut
properly with a cutter then it should be fine.

It's probably OK to cut the conduit pipe with a hacksaw, though.


--

..andy

Andy Hall wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:35:47 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Chris Bacon wrote:

For the OP's situation he needs a fair amount of free play in the
piping, so a trunking would be useful.
He only needs a few mm of expansion room in total along the length.

Personally I would bury plastic sleeving pipe and then run speedfit
through it, then there is no need to worry about additional pipe
protection and accommodating movement.


There is more expansion with Speedfit than with copper, but I think
that this is a more sensible solution. As long as the pipe is cut
properly with a cutter then it should be fine.

It's probably OK to cut the conduit pipe with a hacksaw, though.

You could cut the speedfit pipe with a hacksaw too if you used inserts
and compression fittings.

Andy Hall wrote in message
...

John Rumm wrote:


Or if you are *not* carrying gas, you could use plastic pipe instead.


ROFL.

Round here they have spent three months digging up the old gas main
and laying plastic replacement, right up the meter.

Not exactly speedfit or Hep20 though is it! ;-)

I wonder how they cut it?


a Hacksaw believe it or not,
Why
because that's the same tool he used to cut the still _live_ steel pipe
with.
I think I even have a photo of the chap doing it.




-

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:59:11 +0000, Richard Conway
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:35:47 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Chris Bacon wrote:

For the OP's situation he needs a fair amount of free play in the
piping, so a trunking would be useful.
He only needs a few mm of expansion room in total along the length.

Personally I would bury plastic sleeving pipe and then run speedfit
through it, then there is no need to worry about additional pipe
protection and accommodating movement.


There is more expansion with Speedfit than with copper, but I think
that this is a more sensible solution. As long as the pipe is cut
properly with a cutter then it should be fine.

It's probably OK to cut the conduit pipe with a hacksaw, though.

You could cut the speedfit pipe with a hacksaw too if you used inserts
and compression fittings.

This debate has been run many times. Results can be tearfull.


--

..andy

Andy Hall wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:59:11 +0000, Richard Conway
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:35:47 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Chris Bacon wrote:

For the OP's situation he needs a fair amount of free play in the
piping, so a trunking would be useful.
He only needs a few mm of expansion room in total along the length.

Personally I would bury plastic sleeving pipe and then run speedfit
through it, then there is no need to worry about additional pipe
protection and accommodating movement.

There is more expansion with Speedfit than with copper, but I think
that this is a more sensible solution. As long as the pipe is cut
properly with a cutter then it should be fine.

It's probably OK to cut the conduit pipe with a hacksaw, though.
You could cut the speedfit pipe with a hacksaw too if you used inserts
and compression fittings.

This debate has been run many times. Results can be tearfull.

Results of cutting with a hacksaw, or starting the debate?