Well I've been here 19 years now and the old girl was here when I bought the
place so quite how old she is I don't know but I think she's gasping her
last breaths. A tiny trickle of water on the bathroom floor a few days ago
has gradually turned into a considerable puddle and much hissing and
steaming whenever she's switched on as water leaks into the gas burner part
and then out onto the floor. Can't see anything much externally with the
covers removed and the pipework seems fine so I think the cast iron boiler
has cracked or rusted through underneath. When she's switched off the leak
stops too so it's probably a crack that opens up when it gets hot.

She's had two thermocouples in 19 years, never been serviced and not another
thing has ever gone wrong. Probably because there's bugger all inside her to
go wrong. Oh, tell a lie. I had to fit a new rubber tap washer to the steam
vent valve a couple of years ago. My friendly local Plumb Centre couldn't be
bothered to write out an invoice for it so they gave me two in case I needed
a spare and said hang on to your money.

Looking at horror stories on here and in other places with modern boilers
breaking down - printed circuit boards, fans etc I can't see there being a
cat in hell's chance of getting that sort of reliability from anything
modern. Not that I'm bothered about the long term because I'm selling the
house as soon as humanly possible so the cheaper the fix the better. If I
could find a replacement boiler section I bet she'd go another 20 plus
years.

I hate combi's because I like baths rather than showers and can't be doing
with a bath taking ten minutes to run. The house is a small 3 bed semi and
the rated output of the RS50 is between 9 and 13 kW depending on the gas
pressure according to the sticker inside it but nothing to say what the
actual gas pressure is. I suppose something wall mounted would take up less
space though.

If she'll last me through the cold weather I might even be so tight as to
pull her apart and see if the crack can be welded but if not what's a good
replacement boiler?

What's all this Corgi nonsense these days? Can you install a new boiler
yourself and get some eejit with a certificate to check it over or have you
got to pay vast sums of money for someone else to do it all? If you do it
yourself how would anyone know in future?
--
Dave Baker

In article ,
Dave Baker Dave wrote:
Well I've been here 19 years now and the old girl was here when I bought
the place so quite how old she is I don't know but I think she's gasping
her last breaths. A tiny trickle of water on the bathroom floor a few
days ago has gradually turned into a considerable puddle and much
hissing and steaming whenever she's switched on as water leaks into the
gas burner part and then out onto the floor. Can't see anything much
externally with the covers removed and the pipework seems fine so I
think the cast iron boiler has cracked or rusted through underneath.
When she's switched off the leak stops too so it's probably a crack that
opens up when it gets hot.

Is the heat exchanger the type made up of sections held together with
threaded rod? If so the 'O' rings between the sections have failed.
Stripping, cleaning up the mating faces and new 'O' rings should do it - a
simple matter to one of your skills.

Did this on my RS80 some 10 years ago and it's still going strong. You
might also have to replace some of the fire box linings due to water
damage. And of course all the various rope seals.

--
*That's it! I‘m calling grandma!

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 8 Feb 2006 05:41:15 -0000, "Dave Baker" Dave
wrote:

Well I've been here 19 years now and the old girl was here when I bought the
place so quite how old she is I don't know but I think she's gasping her
last breaths. A tiny trickle of water on the bathroom floor a few days ago
has gradually turned into a considerable puddle and much hissing and
steaming whenever she's switched on as water leaks into the gas burner part
and then out onto the floor. Can't see anything much externally with the
covers removed and the pipework seems fine so I think the cast iron boiler
has cracked or rusted through underneath. When she's switched off the leak
stops too so it's probably a crack that opens up when it gets hot.

She's had two thermocouples in 19 years, never been serviced and not another
thing has ever gone wrong. Probably because there's bugger all inside her to
go wrong. Oh, tell a lie. I had to fit a new rubber tap washer to the steam
vent valve a couple of years ago. My friendly local Plumb Centre couldn't be
bothered to write out an invoice for it so they gave me two in case I needed
a spare and said hang on to your money.

Looking at horror stories on here and in other places with modern boilers
breaking down - printed circuit boards, fans etc I can't see there being a
cat in hell's chance of getting that sort of reliability from anything
modern. Not that I'm bothered about the long term because I'm selling the
house as soon as humanly possible so the cheaper the fix the better. If I
could find a replacement boiler section I bet she'd go another 20 plus
years.

I hate combi's because I like baths rather than showers and can't be doing
with a bath taking ten minutes to run. The house is a small 3 bed semi and
the rated output of the RS50 is between 9 and 13 kW depending on the gas
pressure according to the sticker inside it but nothing to say what the
actual gas pressure is. I suppose something wall mounted would take up less
space though.

If she'll last me through the cold weather I might even be so tight as to
pull her apart and see if the crack can be welded but if not what's a good
replacement boiler?

What's all this Corgi nonsense these days? Can you install a new boiler
yourself and get some eejit with a certificate to check it over or have you
got to pay vast sums of money for someone else to do it all? If you do it
yourself how would anyone know in future?

Have you tried here .
http://www.interpartspares.co.uk/stockists/index.php

If it's the heat exchanger they can cost about £300 tho'



Stuart

Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message
...
In article ,
Dave Baker Dave wrote:
Well I've been here 19 years now and the old girl was here when I bought
the place so quite how old she is I don't know but I think she's gasping
her last breaths. A tiny trickle of water on the bathroom floor a few
days ago has gradually turned into a considerable puddle and much
hissing and steaming whenever she's switched on as water leaks into the
gas burner part and then out onto the floor. Can't see anything much
externally with the covers removed and the pipework seems fine so I
think the cast iron boiler has cracked or rusted through underneath.
When she's switched off the leak stops too so it's probably a crack that
opens up when it gets hot.

Is the heat exchanger the type made up of sections held together with
threaded rod? If so the 'O' rings between the sections have failed.
Stripping, cleaning up the mating faces and new 'O' rings should do it - a
simple matter to one of your skills.

Hmmm. It's just a big cast iron box with a side cover at each side held on
by 6 nuts. Could those nuts be on rods which go all the way from left to
right perchance? I've never had cause to look inside the covers. They've got
big rubber gaskets on them a bit like the ones on the cam follower side
plates on MGB engines if that means anything to you. Methinks checking to
see if those side plate nuts are tight might be a good idea before I do
anything else.


Did this on my RS80 some 10 years ago and it's still going strong. You
might also have to replace some of the fire box linings due to water
damage. And of course all the various rope seals.

Are those things still easily available and if so who from? From Potterton
or can you get pattern parts for boilers like you can for cars? The rope
seal between the burner and the box has certainly gone on the left hand
side. It's wet and bulging out from the join now so the leak must be on that
side somewhere.
--
Dave Baker

Stuart wrote in message
...
Have you tried here .
http://www.interpartspares.co.uk/stockists/index.php

If it's the heat exchanger they can cost about £300 tho'

Thanks Stuart. That's a handy link.
--
Dave Baker

On Wed, 8 Feb 2006 12:31:54 -0000, "Dave Baker" Dave
wrote:


Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message
...
In article ,
Dave Baker Dave wrote:
Well I've been here 19 years now and the old girl was here when I bought
the place so quite how old she is I don't know but I think she's gasping
her last breaths. A tiny trickle of water on the bathroom floor a few
days ago has gradually turned into a considerable puddle and much
hissing and steaming whenever she's switched on as water leaks into the
gas burner part and then out onto the floor. Can't see anything much
externally with the covers removed and the pipework seems fine so I
think the cast iron boiler has cracked or rusted through underneath.
When she's switched off the leak stops too so it's probably a crack that
opens up when it gets hot.

Is the heat exchanger the type made up of sections held together with
threaded rod? If so the 'O' rings between the sections have failed.
Stripping, cleaning up the mating faces and new 'O' rings should do it - a
simple matter to one of your skills.

Hmmm. It's just a big cast iron box with a side cover at each side held on
by 6 nuts. Could those nuts be on rods which go all the way from left to
right perchance? I've never had cause to look inside the covers. They've got
big rubber gaskets on them a bit like the ones on the cam follower side
plates on MGB engines if that means anything to you. Methinks checking to
see if those side plate nuts are tight might be a good idea before I do
anything else.


Did this on my RS80 some 10 years ago and it's still going strong. You
might also have to replace some of the fire box linings due to water
damage. And of course all the various rope seals.

Are those things still easily available and if so who from? From Potterton
or can you get pattern parts for boilers like you can for cars? The rope
seal between the burner and the box has certainly gone on the left hand
side. It's wet and bulging out from the join now so the leak must be on that
side somewhere.

If It's anything like my old CF60 Kingfisher parts are available from
Interparts .The Heat Exchanger has two plates one per side held on by
nuts threaded on to rods that fit in to the heat exchanger body and do
not go right through to the other side and the seals are a pair of
rubber like gaskets .I also used some heat resistant silcone I got
from Screwfix to help the seal. On mine the gaskets had hardened over
the years and just crumbled away so I scraped the residue away and
rubbed down the mating faces .
I also replaced the ceramic rope but iirc it is £17 a metre .



Stuart

Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message
...
Is the heat exchanger the type made up of sections held together with
threaded rod?

Nope. Looking at the parts diagram on that link Stuart gave it's just a big
open box with side plates. I see what you mean though on the RS80 diagram.
On mine either it's a side plate leaking or the box itself is holed. Can't
see any other possibilities unless there's things inside the box that the
diagram doesn't go into but I'll certainly look at those side plates when
I've got time to drain her down. If it's just the left hand one of those
leaking I'll be well chuffed. There's certainly a bit of water around that
area.

Even if the box is holed it may well be fixable. Mill the bottom off the
bugger, cut a slab off an old Ford Pinto engine block, bolt the two back
together with lots of countersunk capheads and high temp sealant or get them
red hot and nickel fill them. Bob's your aunty Probably be a good idea to
bore out the gas burner jets while I'm at it, do a bit of porting and
polishing inside and wind the gas pressure up to full. Or there's that old
DCOE that I've been trying to find a use for, hmmmmm. More power, ugh ugh
ugh. (Not quite sure how you spell that thing Tim Taylor does on tooltime -
lol)

Thank god it didn't go in the middle of the really cold weather though. I
reckon now I can struggle on with the gas fire in the lounge and maybe just
run the boiler for hot water once a day until I've got time to look into it
more.
--
Dave Baker

Stuart wrote in message
...
On Wed, 8 Feb 2006 12:31:54 -0000, "Dave Baker" Dave
wrote:


Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message
...
In article ,
Dave Baker Dave wrote:
Well I've been here 19 years now and the old girl was here when I
bought
the place so quite how old she is I don't know but I think she's
gasping
her last breaths. A tiny trickle of water on the bathroom floor a few
days ago has gradually turned into a considerable puddle and much
hissing and steaming whenever she's switched on as water leaks into
the
gas burner part and then out onto the floor. Can't see anything much
externally with the covers removed and the pipework seems fine so I
think the cast iron boiler has cracked or rusted through underneath.
When she's switched off the leak stops too so it's probably a crack
that
opens up when it gets hot.

Is the heat exchanger the type made up of sections held together with
threaded rod? If so the 'O' rings between the sections have failed.
Stripping, cleaning up the mating faces and new 'O' rings should do
it - a
simple matter to one of your skills.

Hmmm. It's just a big cast iron box with a side cover at each side held
on
by 6 nuts. Could those nuts be on rods which go all the way from left to
right perchance? I've never had cause to look inside the covers. They've
got
big rubber gaskets on them a bit like the ones on the cam follower side
plates on MGB engines if that means anything to you. Methinks checking to
see if those side plate nuts are tight might be a good idea before I do
anything else.


Did this on my RS80 some 10 years ago and it's still going strong. You
might also have to replace some of the fire box linings due to water
damage. And of course all the various rope seals.

Are those things still easily available and if so who from? From
Potterton
or can you get pattern parts for boilers like you can for cars? The rope
seal between the burner and the box has certainly gone on the left hand
side. It's wet and bulging out from the join now so the leak must be on
that
side somewhere.

If It's anything like my old CF60 Kingfisher parts are available from
Interparts .The Heat Exchanger has two plates one per side held on by
nuts threaded on to rods that fit in to the heat exchanger body and do
not go right through to the other side and the seals are a pair of
rubber like gaskets .I also used some heat resistant silcone I got
from Screwfix to help the seal. On mine the gaskets had hardened over
the years and just crumbled away so I scraped the residue away and
rubbed down the mating faces .
I also replaced the ceramic rope but iirc it is £17 a metre .

Quick look on Google and 12mm fire rope as per the Potterton parts listing -
£2 per metre here

http://www.fluesystems.com/sundries/info/fire_rope.htm

Ain't the internet wunerful
--
Dave Baker

In article ,
Dave Baker Dave wrote:
Is the heat exchanger the type made up of sections held together with
threaded rod? If so the 'O' rings between the sections have failed.
Stripping, cleaning up the mating faces and new 'O' rings should do it - a
simple matter to one of your skills.

Hmmm. It's just a big cast iron box with a side cover at each side held
on by 6 nuts. Could those nuts be on rods which go all the way from left
to right perchance? I've never had cause to look inside the covers.
They've got big rubber gaskets on them a bit like the ones on the cam
follower side plates on MGB engines if that means anything to you.
Methinks checking to see if those side plate nuts are tight might be a
good idea before I do anything else.

Ah - it's different from mine which is older. On mine the threaded rods
run externally through eyes in the castings. The end sections are one type
of casting, and the centre sections (two in my case) different from them
but identical to one another. So a modular unit that can be sized for
different applications. I assume. ;-)


Did this on my RS80 some 10 years ago and it's still going strong. You
might also have to replace some of the fire box linings due to water
damage. And of course all the various rope seals.

Are those things still easily available and if so who from? From
Potterton or can you get pattern parts for boilers like you can for
cars? The rope seal between the burner and the box has certainly gone on
the left hand side. It's wet and bulging out from the join now so the
leak must be on that side somewhere.

I had no problem then getting the fire box liners and O rings from my
local Potterton agent. The rope seals are 'generic' and any PM should have
them - you just cut to length.

There's a boiler 'breakers' near me. Perhaps you have a local one too?
They might be able to sell you a secondhand heat exchanger for pennies if
indeed yours has rotted through - although I'd say this is unlikely. But
I've never use them - the only other thing mine has had is a couple of
thermocouples.

But with rising gas prices it will probably be worth changing it for a
more efficient model. My gas bill is now about 1000 quid a year - although
it is a large Victorian house with solid walls and we like it comfortable.
;-)

--
*The more people I meet, the more I like my dog.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave Baker Dave wrote:
Nope. Looking at the parts diagram on that link Stuart gave it's just a
big open box with side plates. I see what you mean though on the RS80
diagram. On mine either it's a side plate leaking or the box itself is
holed. Can't see any other possibilities unless there's things inside
the box that the diagram doesn't go into but I'll certainly look at
those side plates when I've got time to drain her down. If it's just the
left hand one of those leaking I'll be well chuffed. There's certainly a
bit of water around that area.

I'd definitely guess at leaking seals before cracks or corrosion.

Even if the box is holed it may well be fixable. Mill the bottom off the
bugger, cut a slab off an old Ford Pinto engine block, bolt the two back
together with lots of countersunk capheads and high temp sealant or get
them red hot and nickel fill them. Bob's your aunty Probably be a
good idea to bore out the gas burner jets while I'm at it, do a bit of
porting and polishing inside and wind the gas pressure up to full. Or
there's that old DCOE that I've been trying to find a use for, hmmmmm.
More power, ugh ugh ugh. (Not quite sure how you spell that thing Tim
Taylor does on tooltime - lol)

;-)

And a GT badge and stripes for the casing?

Thank god it didn't go in the middle of the really cold weather though.
I reckon now I can struggle on with the gas fire in the lounge and maybe
just run the boiler for hot water once a day until I've got time to look
into it more.

Is it on a solid floor? Otherwise I'd be concerned about where the leaking
water could be going to.

It's how the mighty have fallen, isn't it? A company who once made boilers
which can run for 20 years (mine nearer 30) with little attention now make
ones which can barely do a year without expensive repairs. That's progress
- in this throwaway world.

Of course fools like dribble will start bleating on about the higher
efficiency brought about through the use of electronics etc. But then the
same applies to car engines - and they're more efficient *and* more
reliable than 20 years ago - in general.

--
*I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message
...
Is it on a solid floor? Otherwise I'd be concerned about where the leaking
water could be going to.

Aye. Bathroom's downstairs and a concrete floor so nowt to get damaged.
Saves having to put a water bowl down too cos the cat and ferret can drink
from the pool round the boiler. There's always a silver lining if you look
hard enough
--
Dave Baker

In article ,
Owain wrote:
And it will still be a 20+ year old boiler. Spending £600 on the
cheapest new boiler will probably be a better short term investment as a
modernised heating system will be more attractive to buyers.

Is that 600 quid *installed* for a modern equivalent of an RS50?
And some figures on the likely maintenance costs of a cheap boiler?

--
*Oh, what a tangled website we weave when first we practice *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave Baker Dave wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message
...
Is it on a solid floor? Otherwise I'd be concerned about where the
leaking water could be going to.

Aye. Bathroom's downstairs and a concrete floor so nowt to get damaged.
Saves having to put a water bowl down too cos the cat and ferret can
drink from the pool round the boiler. There's always a silver lining if
you look hard enough

You must have harder cats in your part of the world. Mine demands nothing
short of Perrier. The ferret just drinks out of the bog. Knows its place.

But if you've got plenty of inhibitor in the water at least they won't
rust.

--
*Why is the third hand on the watch called a second hand?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Owain wrote:
And it will still be a 20+ year old boiler. Spending £600 on the
cheapest new boiler will probably be a better short term investment as
a modernised heating system will be more attractive to buyers.

Is that 600 quid *installed* for a modern equivalent of an RS50?

I don't know if it's the equivalent, but £300 for a new heat exchanger
is plus the labour of stripping down and reassembling. Might well be
quicker and cheaper to pull old boiler off wall and put new boiler on
wall. Depends a lot on flue, condensate drain etc of course.

But Dave Baker is perfectly capable of changing/repairing the heat
exchanger himself once he knows what the likely fault is.
It's simple mechanics on these boilers.

And some figures on the likely maintenance costs of a cheap boiler?

Who cares about maintainance costs? The OP said he was intending to move
fairly soon. Surveyor will see that boiler is shiny new and has a
warranty. Surveyor won't know/care which is a cheap or which is a good
boiler.

Surveyor will probably comment on the age of the rest of the system. And
even with a new boiler recommend the whole lot is professionally checked.

Then there's the installer of the new boiler requiring a power flush etc.

I'd say you simply won't get back the cost of fitting a new boiler
reflected in the sale price. Better to just fix the existing one for
pennies - if you can DIY.

--
*Elephants are the only mammals that can't jump *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 05:41:15 +0000, Dave Baker wrote:

Well I've been here 19 years now and the old girl was here when I bought the
place so quite how old she is I don't know but I think she's gasping her
last breaths. A tiny trickle of water on the bathroom floor a few days ago
has gradually turned into a considerable puddle and much hissing and
steaming whenever she's switched on as water leaks into the gas burner part
and then out onto the floor. Can't see anything much externally with the
covers removed and the pipework seems fine so I think the cast iron boiler
has cracked or rusted through underneath. When she's switched off the leak
stops too so it's probably a crack that opens up when it gets hot.

She's had two thermocouples in 19 years, never been serviced and not another
thing has ever gone wrong. Probably because there's bugger all inside her to
go wrong. Oh, tell a lie. I had to fit a new rubber tap washer to the steam
vent valve a couple of years ago. My friendly local Plumb Centre couldn't be
bothered to write out an invoice for it so they gave me two in case I needed
a spare and said hang on to your money.

Looking at horror stories on here and in other places with modern boilers
breaking down - printed circuit boards, fans etc I can't see there being a
cat in hell's chance of getting that sort of reliability from anything
modern. Not that I'm bothered about the long term because I'm selling the
house as soon as humanly possible so the cheaper the fix the better. If I
could find a replacement boiler section I bet she'd go another 20 plus
years.

I hate combi's because I like baths rather than showers and can't be doing
with a bath taking ten minutes to run. The house is a small 3 bed semi and
the rated output of the RS50 is between 9 and 13 kW depending on the gas
pressure according to the sticker inside it but nothing to say what the
actual gas pressure is. I suppose something wall mounted would take up less
space though.

If she'll last me through the cold weather I might even be so tight as to
pull her apart and see if the crack can be welded but if not what's a good
replacement boiler?

What's all this Corgi nonsense these days? Can you install a new boiler
yourself and get some eejit with a certificate to check it over or have you
got to pay vast sums of money for someone else to do it all? If you do it
yourself how would anyone know in future?


The Boiler Choice FAQ was written for more or less your situation. Please
Read.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

Ed Sirett wrote in message
news

The Boiler Choice FAQ was written for more or less your situation. Please
Read.
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

Excellent document. Thanks. I'll go through it in detail in due course.
--
Dave Baker