On 24 Jan 2006 17:10:47 -0800, wrote:


Andy Hall wrote:


Are Festool hand made? An automated production line will bring prices
down, and most likely quality up.

I have no idea. Look at their web site.

Have you actually owned, used or even looked at anything they make?


Cutting out middle men will also
bring prices down as well.

That's pretty obvious but depends on what the so called "middle men"
do. If it's simply distribution with no added value, then certainly.
If it's a support and service organisation, that is a different
matter.


Price is not a true indicator.


Price is *an* indicator, but doesn't replace researching the purchase
properly.


I know, I buy
lots of building stuff and price does not equal quality in 50% of the
items I buy and that included tools.

Well yes. A sack of cement is, well, a sack of cement.



After reading this forum I popped
into Aldi and Lidl and found that hand tools costing a few quid were as
equal to many costsing 10 times as much.


It is taking advice, and learning from others mistakes and then trying.
If I bought on high price alone I would be on the dole and in debt.

That's pretty obvious. Equally, buying things in Aldi and Lidl
hardly describes a purchaser buying on anything other than (low)
price.

One has to look at the whole product offering and then to decide
whether that is worth the price being asked.




--

..andy

Andy Hall wrote:
On 24 Jan 2006 17:10:47 -0800, wrote:


Andy Hall wrote:


Are Festool hand made? An automated production line will bring prices
down, and most likely quality up.

I have no idea. Look at their web site.

Have you actually owned, used or even looked at anything they make?

I have held them and them walked away when seeing the price. They
seemto be high craftsman tool.

Cutting out middle men will also
bring prices down as well.

That's pretty obvious but depends on what the so called "middle men"
do. If it's simply distribution with no added value, then certainly.
If it's a support and service organisation, that is a different
matter.


Price is not a true indicator.


Price is *an* indicator, but doesn't replace researching the purchase
properly.


I know, I buy
lots of building stuff and price does not equal quality in 50% of the
items I buy and that included tools.

Well yes. A sack of cement is, well, a sack of cement.

And the price of the sacks can vary.

After reading this forum I popped
into Aldi and Lidl and found that hand tools costing a few quid were as
equal to many costsing 10 times as much.


It is taking advice, and learning from others mistakes and then trying.
If I bought on high price alone I would be on the dole and in debt.

That's pretty obvious. Equally, buying things in Aldi and Lidl
hardly describes a purchaser buying on anything other than (low)
price.

I bought some hand tools from Lidl which for 99p each are quite good.
They will last a few years or more. I can't belive how cheap they were.
I bought an SDS drill from Aldi and use it as a backup. It hasn't been
out the box yet and stays in the van in case. Tools break down when you
use them, not in the box giving you time to buy another, so backup on
essential tools like SDS drills is a good thing for me.

One has to look at the whole product offering and then to decide
whether that is worth the price being asked.

That is right. And as I said, high price doesn't always equal high
quality or good value for money. I am still drawn towards Ryobi for the
one battey set, and they do sell just the tool without the batteries. I
want to start a one battery collection, maybe starting with Ryobi or
DeWalt. You do say Ryobi come in tops on value for money, so that must
say something. They are also geared for the professional user, while PP
Ro is serious DIY. If they get through the guarantee period and break
down they have been thrashed by me anyway. The time having the thing
repaired is a problem and more of a hassle than what it's worth. If I
get 3 years from a £60 to £100 power tool then I am happy as they
have been used and abused in that time and paid their way.






--

.andy

On 25 Jan 2006 16:03:53 -0800, wrote:


Andy Hall wrote:
On 24 Jan 2006 17:10:47 -0800, wrote:


Andy Hall wrote:


Are Festool hand made? An automated production line will bring prices
down, and most likely quality up.

I have no idea. Look at their web site.

Have you actually owned, used or even looked at anything they make?

I have held them and them walked away when seeing the price. They
seemto be high craftsman tool.

Certainly Festool's products are geared for the quality part of the
market and where ergonomics of use are important to the user.

However, they also have a good track record on innovation.

Some examples:

- Guide tracks with adaptors for circular and jig saws and routers are
available from most brand manufacturers and there are a number of
after market products as well. Festool have done an integration on
some tools whereby the cutting blade is precisely at the edge of the
guide. Thus the guide can be easily located and self clamped to the
work and the tool is easy and quick to use.

- The C12 drill is the first with a stepper motor. Control of motor
speed and torque and the clutch are nothing short of superb.

- Their Systainer containers clip and stack together neatly. They
will even clip to the top of their vacuum cleaner/extractor for
convenience.





Cutting out middle men will also
bring prices down as well.

That's pretty obvious but depends on what the so called "middle men"
do. If it's simply distribution with no added value, then certainly.
If it's a support and service organisation, that is a different
matter.


Price is not a true indicator.


Price is *an* indicator, but doesn't replace researching the purchase
properly.


I know, I buy
lots of building stuff and price does not equal quality in 50% of the
items I buy and that included tools.

Well yes. A sack of cement is, well, a sack of cement.

And the price of the sacks can vary.


Exactly. The point is that this is a commodity product. As long as
it is dry and in date, it will probably be OK. Then the only two
questions are price and availability.


Tools are quite different.

There is certainly a commodity part of the market where price is the
main factor with little regard to anything else.

THere are, however, demonstrably better products at higher levels and
price points in the market, where people are looking for performance,
features and services not offered at the commodity end.



After reading this forum I popped
into Aldi and Lidl and found that hand tools costing a few quid were as
equal to many costsing 10 times as much.


It is taking advice, and learning from others mistakes and then trying.
If I bought on high price alone I would be on the dole and in debt.

That's pretty obvious. Equally, buying things in Aldi and Lidl
hardly describes a purchaser buying on anything other than (low)
price.

I bought some hand tools from Lidl which for 99p each are quite good.
They will last a few years or more. I can't belive how cheap they were.

I bought an SDS drill from Aldi and use it as a backup. It hasn't been
out the box yet and stays in the van in case. Tools break down when you
use them, not in the box giving you time to buy another, so backup on
essential tools like SDS drills is a good thing for me.

I'd prefer to buy something that is unlikely to break down in the
first place.





One has to look at the whole product offering and then to decide
whether that is worth the price being asked.

That is right. And as I said, high price doesn't always equal high
quality or good value for money. I am still drawn towards Ryobi for the
one battey set, and they do sell just the tool without the batteries. I
want to start a one battery collection, maybe starting with Ryobi or
DeWalt. You do say Ryobi come in tops on value for money, so that must
say something.

Not always. Their products came low down even on this in some
categories. Hence the strategy of always buying one brand, doesn't
really work if you want either best of breed or best value for money.

I think that it's typically reasonable within tool types. For example
drills from Makita, but I don't think I'd buy a cordless circular saw
from anybody apart from perhaps a small trimming one with small blade.


They are also geared for the professional user, while PP
Ro is serious DIY.

Actually that isn't quite true.

The manufacturers, Techtronics Industries, in China,
(www.ttigroup.com) position the Ryobi brand as follows:

"Ryobi is the brand of choice for millions of home improvement
enthusiasts, woodworkers, craftspeople, and value-conscious
contractors worldwide"

To me, the term "value concious contractor" is marketing euphemism for
people for whom low price is more important than quality.

They talk about "pro-featured", not professional.


Their professional brand is Milwaukee:

"Today, the Milwaukee name stands for the highest quality, durable and
reliable professional tools money can buy."

They talk about highest quality heavy duty tools for professional
work.


If you compare the two brands side by side, the differences are
obvious.


I am not sure what describes "serious DIY" - I don't see that relating
to anything very much.

I remain to be convinced that TTI's private label stuff is any better
than any other Chinese manufacturing house's private label stuff.






If they get through the guarantee period and break
down they have been thrashed by me anyway. The time having the thing
repaired is a problem and more of a hassle than what it's worth. If I
get 3 years from a £60 to £100 power tool then I am happy as they
have been used and abused in that time and paid their way.


I'd rather spend a little more and have something that feels better in
use, produces a better outcome and is less likely to break in the
first place.


--

..andy

Andy Hall wrote:
timegoesby wrote:
I bought an SDS drill from Aldi and use it as a backup. It hasn't been
out the box yet and stays in the van in case. Tools break down when you
use them, not in the box giving you time to buy another, so backup on
essential tools like SDS drills is a good thing for me.

I'd prefer to buy something that is unlikely to break down in the
first place.

Everything breaks down. It's good to have backup.


If they get through the guarantee period and break
down they have been thrashed by me anyway.

[insert space]

The time having the thing
repaired is a problem and more of a hassle than what it's worth.

I refer Mr timegoesby to a comment I made earlier.

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 10:27:02 +0000, Chris Bacon
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
timegoesby wrote:
I bought an SDS drill from Aldi and use it as a backup. It hasn't been
out the box yet and stays in the van in case. Tools break down when you
use them, not in the box giving you time to buy another, so backup on
essential tools like SDS drills is a good thing for me.

I'd prefer to buy something that is unlikely to break down in the
first place.

Everything breaks down. It's good to have backup.

So you're going to keep two of everything, just in case?





--

..andy

Andy Hall wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
timegoesby wrote:
I bought an SDS drill from Aldi and use it as a backup. It hasn't been
out the box yet and stays in the van in case. Tools break down when you
use them, not in the box giving you time to buy another, so backup on
essential tools like SDS drills is a good thing for me.

I'd prefer to buy something that is unlikely to break down in the
first place.

Everything breaks down. It's good to have backup.


So you're going to keep two of everything, just in case?

Don't be obtuse. Read what I included from timegoesby.

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 11:19:39 +0000, Chris Bacon
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
timegoesby wrote:
I bought an SDS drill from Aldi and use it as a backup. It hasn't been
out the box yet and stays in the van in case. Tools break down when you
use them, not in the box giving you time to buy another, so backup on
essential tools like SDS drills is a good thing for me.

I'd prefer to buy something that is unlikely to break down in the
first place.

Everything breaks down. It's good to have backup.


So you're going to keep two of everything, just in case?

Don't be obtuse. Read what I included from timegoesby.


I'm not being obtuse at all.


There are several ways to deal with a reliability issue.

a) Buy a cheap tool. If it breaks during the warranty period, you
still have to take the time to return it and/or buy another.

b) Buy two tools. The first one breaks and you use the second.
Considering that the first has been unreliable, it is more likely than
not that the second will be as well and might even fail after a short
time. This is even more likely if both were from the same batch or
made around the same time. It also doubles the cost to the point
where a better quality tool could have been purchased, better results
had and more reliability as well.

c) Buy a good quality tool in the first place. Reliability and
longevity will be better in something that is designed for regular,
professional use. That's the whole point. Manufacturers of these
tools have next day spares back up for parts and repairs are easy
because product design is done well.

d) Buy two different professional tools with some degree of functional
overlap. For example, I have a Bosch Multidrill SDS/conventional
drill. It mainly gets used for heavier weight work but can happily
deal with mid range work as well such as larger wood drilling etc.
I also have a chunky 18v Makita cordless drill. That will do up to
and including quite a lot of masonry work if it has to do so.
I think that this is a far better solution to a) and b) especially as
quality of use and result are also better and the reliability of
better designed and manufactured tools is higher in the first place.


--

..andy

Andy Hall wrote:

I bought some hand tools from Lidl which for 99p each are quite good.
They will last a few years or more. I can't belive how cheap they were.

I bought an SDS drill from Aldi and use it as a backup. It hasn't been
out the box yet and stays in the van in case. Tools break down when you
use them, not in the box giving you time to buy another, so backup on
essential tools like SDS drills is a good thing for me.

I'd prefer to buy something that is unlikely to break down in the
first place.

You missed the point. I have a pro SDS and the £25 Aldi SDS is for
backup for when the SDS breaks down. I have burnt out DeWalt and Wickes
SDS drills. SDS drills don't like abuse and constant hammering. I ran
the Aldi SDS and it appears to work OK. No holes have been drilled with
it yet. If it gets me through the time to get another pro SDS then it
is well worth the £25.

Their professional brand is Milwaukee:

"Today, the Milwaukee name stands for the highest quality, durable and
reliable professional tools money can buy."

They talk about highest quality heavy duty tools for professional
work.

And prices that exceed Makita. Screwfix now sell them. I will wait for
reprts on that range. I suspect they will be Ryobis underneath.

If they get through the guarantee period and break
down they have been thrashed by me anyway. The time having the thing
repaired is a problem and more of a hassle than what it's worth. If I
get 3 years from a £60 to £100 power tool then I am happy as they
have been used and abused in that time and paid their way.

I'd rather spend a little more and have something that feels better in
use, produces a better outcome and is less likely to break in the
first place.

I have burnt them all out. DeWalt, Makita, Bosch, cheap no name makes.
I have always been impressed by the odd cheapie that lasts far longer
than I thought for buttons.

My long term plan is to go the one battery way, as there is less to
carry around. Middle brands are as good as the so called top pro stuff.
I have not ever bought Altas Copco or Panasonic, as the price made me
look away, so my experience is Makita, the Wickes Kress, Bosch and
DeWalt in the top prices. I assure you, none of these tools bounce, and
the thought of bouncing a Panasonic would be too much to contemplate,
so middle branded stuff it is, as they are cheap enough to replace.

On 26 Jan 2006 16:28:35 -0800, wrote:


Andy Hall wrote:

I bought some hand tools from Lidl which for 99p each are quite good.
They will last a few years or more. I can't belive how cheap they were.

I bought an SDS drill from Aldi and use it as a backup. It hasn't been
out the box yet and stays in the van in case. Tools break down when you
use them, not in the box giving you time to buy another, so backup on
essential tools like SDS drills is a good thing for me.

I'd prefer to buy something that is unlikely to break down in the
first place.

You missed the point.

Not at all, just looking at the issues laterally.


I have a pro SDS and the £25 Aldi SDS is for
backup for when the SDS breaks down.

If you are talking about the Wickes product, it is not in the
professional category at all, but pretty much at the Ryobi level,
which is not professional either.

I have burnt out DeWalt and Wickes
SDS drills.

The DeWalt one can be repaired very inexpensively.


SDS drills don't like abuse and constant hammering.

That depends on what you buy. I've used my Bosch blue one pretty
much all day on occasions, and it has no difficulty at all with that.

I ran
the Aldi SDS and it appears to work OK. No holes have been drilled with
it yet. If it gets me through the time to get another pro SDS then it
is well worth the £25.

But you're not buying a pro product with the Wickes SDS offering.


Granted the initial outlay of this plus the Aldi thing (which I would
not have felt was much of an insurance policy) was not great; but
looking at the whole picture and over a period of years, I think that
spending say £200 or so for a Bosch professional product would be a
sound investment when longevity, ease of use, not having to spend time
returning under warranty or shopping around for replacements are taken
into account.




Their professional brand is Milwaukee:

"Today, the Milwaukee name stands for the highest quality, durable and
reliable professional tools money can buy."

They talk about highest quality heavy duty tools for professional
work.

And prices that exceed Makita. Screwfix now sell them. I will wait for
reprts on that range. I suspect they will be Ryobis underneath.

The manufacturer is the same, that we know.

My personal preferences are Makita and Bosch for drills etc. Also,
the range of different Milwaukee products available in the UK is not
as great as in the U.S.

However, I have side by side compared roughly functionally equivalent
Milwaukee and Ryobi tools while in the U.S., and really the
differences are quite obvious.

Referring to the FWW Annual tool reviews that I mentioned earlier,
Milwaukee does continue to score high in terms of best of breed, while
some times Ryobi scores based on "value" - with value taken to mean
that price is a large part of the decision. FWW does a decent job of
reviewing. For each one they have a small editorial panel and then
also do a reader survey of several thousand users. The results are
presented alongside one another. There is then a scoring table out of
5 and a winner for best on test and best "value". Generally the
editorial and reader conclusions line up to the same or adjacent
products in the points leagues. There is seldom large discrepancy.

I also try to do my own comparisons and then read the reviews
afterwards. Again, generally I am not too far away from the same
conclusions.




If they get through the guarantee period and break
down they have been thrashed by me anyway. The time having the thing
repaired is a problem and more of a hassle than what it's worth. If I
get 3 years from a £60 to £100 power tool then I am happy as they
have been used and abused in that time and paid their way.

I'd rather spend a little more and have something that feels better in
use, produces a better outcome and is less likely to break in the
first place.

I have burnt them all out. DeWalt, Makita, Bosch, cheap no name makes.

I wonder what you're doing......


I have always been impressed by the odd cheapie that lasts far longer
than I thought for buttons.

I'd be amazed. However, I prefer not to waste time on the off-chance.
It takes a minimum of 1-2 hours to get a replacement/refund and that
adds up to a lot of money.


My long term plan is to go the one battery way, as there is less to
carry around.

There is good sense in that.

Middle brands are as good as the so called top pro stuff.

The trouble is that they are not if you take all of the issues such as
control and ease of use into account and the long term cost of
ownership.

I have not ever bought Altas Copco or Panasonic, as the price made me
look away,

Panasonic, with their 15.6v drill has been well regarded and reviewed
for a very long time. The main reason is the battery technology which
substantially exceeds the 14.4v typical offerings of other
manufacturers for little or no extra weight.

I don't look at the purchase price, within reason, as something to put
me off, but rather the TCO over a period of time. Therefore I look
at service and spares arrangements as important factors and how well
the product feels and performs. Then I consider whether the price is
acceptable for what I want and look for the lowest I can find on the
selected item.

My concern with Panasonic is that their range is relatively limited.


so my experience is Makita, the Wickes Kress, Bosch and
DeWalt in the top prices.

OK. I simply don't rate any of Wickes products like the others you
mention. Even among the major manufacturers, depending on tool type,
typically one is better than the other. Generally there is quite long
term consistency on that as well, until a manufacturer comes out with
some revolutionary new feature or piece of technology with a new model
series.

I assure you, none of these tools bounce, and
the thought of bouncing a Panasonic would be too much to contemplate,
so middle branded stuff it is, as they are cheap enough to replace.


This is another point.

With the branded manufacturers you can get the spares and good
service.

I'll give you an example. Some while ago I managed to knock my
Metabo orbital sander off of the bench and broke the front handle.

I looked up the part and pricing and IIRC it was about £5. I ordered
it and it arrived the following morning. Free of charge.



--

..andy

Andy Hall wrote:
With the branded manufacturers you can get the spares and good
service.

I'll give you an example. Some while ago I managed to knock my
Metabo orbital sander off of the bench and broke the front handle.

I looked up the part and pricing and IIRC it was about £5. I ordered
it and it arrived the following morning. Free of charge.

It can be possible to get the same service almost, with cheaper tools.
I recently needed a part for a Toledo saw (Fermi rebranded). I had to
pay a nominal sum, but the parts turned up couple of days later.


Regards
Capitol

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 18:12:17 +0000, Capitol
wrote:



Andy Hall wrote:
With the branded manufacturers you can get the spares and good
service.

I'll give you an example. Some while ago I managed to knock my
Metabo orbital sander off of the bench and broke the front handle.

I looked up the part and pricing and IIRC it was about £5. I ordered
it and it arrived the following morning. Free of charge.

It can be possible to get the same service almost, with cheaper tools.
I recently needed a part for a Toledo saw (Fermi rebranded). I had to
pay a nominal sum, but the parts turned up couple of days later.

OK.

Also in 5 years time?



--

..andy

"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
...
On 26 Jan 2006 16:28:35 -0800, wrote:


Andy Hall wrote:

I bought some hand tools from Lidl which for 99p each are quite good.
They will last a few years or more. I can't belive how cheap they were.

I bought an SDS drill from Aldi and use it as a backup. It hasn't been
out the box yet and stays in the van in case. Tools break down when you
use them, not in the box giving you time to buy another, so backup on
essential tools like SDS drills is a good thing for me.

I'd prefer to buy something that is unlikely to break down in the
first place.

You missed the point.

Not at all, just looking at the issues laterally.

I have a pro SDS and the £25 Aldi SDS is for
backup for when the SDS breaks down.

If you are talking about the Wickes product, it is not in the
professional category at all, but pretty much at the Ryobi level,
which is not professional either.

Matt, you label whore, you are talking botty talk again. I a have a Kress
and it is top notch. Very robust.

I have burnt out DeWalt and Wickes
SDS drills.

The DeWalt one can be repaired very inexpensively.

And costs too. Mat as well go for the Aldi and be done with it.

SDS drills don't like abuse and constant hammering.

That is true. Some builders go through them very quickly.

That depends on what you buy. I've used my Bosch blue one pretty
much all day on occasions, and it has no difficulty at all with that.

Matt, you don't use it in a pro way, day in day out. Stop prattling crap!!!

I ran
the Aldi SDS and it appears to work OK. No holes have been drilled with
it yet. If it gets me through the time to get another pro SDS then it
is well worth the £25.

But you're not buying a pro product with the Wickes SDS offering.

Matt, he is you silly pillock. You really haven't a clue. Wickes is a
trade outlet.

Granted the initial outlay of this plus the Aldi thing (which I would
not have felt was much of an insurance policy) was not great; but
looking at the whole picture and over a period of years, I think that
spending say £200 or so for a Bosch professional product would be a
sound investment when longevity, ease of use, not having to spend time
returning under warranty or shopping around for replacements are taken
into account.

Matt, As Mr Bacon says, read what the man says. He is a pro, you are not.

Their professional brand is Milwaukee:

"Today, the Milwaukee name stands for the highest quality, durable and
reliable professional tools money can buy."

They talk about highest quality heavy duty tools for professional
work.

And prices that exceed Makita. Screwfix now sell them. I will wait for
reprts on that range. I suspect they will be Ryobis underneath.

The manufacturer is the same, that we know.

My personal preferences are Makita and Bosch for drills etc.

Wow!! you like Makita Matt? Why haven't you gone over to Panasonic? They
are more expensive, so they must be better. Hitachi are better than Makita,
and about the same price as well. The Hitachi core drill is an industry
standard it is that good. But you never knew that.

Also, the range of different Milwaukee products
available in the UK is not
as great as in the U.S.

However, I have side by side compared roughly functionally equivalent
Milwaukee and Ryobi tools while in the U.S., and really the
differences are quite obvious.

Referring to the FWW Annual tool reviews that I mentioned earlier,
Milwaukee does continue to score high in terms of best of breed, while
some times Ryobi scores based on "value" - with value taken to mean
that price is a large part of the decision. FWW does a decent job of
reviewing. For each one they have a small editorial panel and then
also do a reader survey of several thousand users. The results are
presented alongside one another. There is then a scoring table out of
5 and a winner for best on test and best "value". Generally the
editorial and reader conclusions line up to the same or adjacent
products in the points leagues. There is seldom large discrepancy.

I also try to do my own comparisons and then read the reviews
afterwards. Again, generally I am not too far away from the same
conclusions.




If they get through the guarantee period and break
down they have been thrashed by me anyway. The time having the thing
repaired is a problem and more of a hassle than what it's worth. If I
get 3 years from a £60 to £100 power tool then I am happy as they
have been used and abused in that time and paid their way.

I'd rather spend a little more and have something that feels better in
use, produces a better outcome and is less likely to break in the
first place.

I have burnt them all out. DeWalt, Makita, Bosch, cheap no name makes.

I wonder what you're doing......

Maybe using them all day to make money instead of polishing them.

I have always been impressed by the odd cheapie that lasts far longer
than I thought for buttons.

I'd be amazed. However, I prefer not to waste time on the off-chance.
It takes a minimum of 1-2 hours to get a replacement/refund and that
adds up to a lot of money.


My long term plan is to go the one battery way, as there is less to
carry around.

There is good sense in that.

Middle brands are as good as the so called top pro stuff.

The trouble is that they are not if you take all of the issues such as
control and ease of use into account and the long term cost of
ownership.

I have not ever bought Altas Copco or Panasonic, as the price made me
look away,

Panasonic, with their 15.6v drill has been well regarded and reviewed
for a very long time. The main reason is the battery technology which
substantially exceeds the 14.4v typical offerings of other
manufacturers for little or no extra weight.

I don't look at the purchase price, within reason, as something to put
me off, but rather the TCO over a period of time. Therefore I look
at service and spares arrangements as important factors and how well
the product feels and performs. Then I consider whether the price is
acceptable for what I want and look for the lowest I can find on the
selected item.

My concern with Panasonic is that their range is relatively limited.


so my experience is Makita, the Wickes Kress, Bosch and
DeWalt in the top prices.

OK. I simply don't rate any of Wickes products like the others you
mention.

Matt, you are a pillock! You have never used one. They have robust cases,
not shiny cases for you to polish. Kress is a top brand and the company is
everything you like. A family owned business which has an eye for design and
quality.

Even among the major manufacturers, depending on tool type,
typically one is better than the other.

It is not that way, Matt. DeWalt is the same as Kress as is the same as
Makita is the same as Bosch. Well Kress is ahead of that bunch. Hitachi
and Panasonic and Atlas are them all.

Generally there is quite long
term consistency on that as well, until a manufacturer comes out with
some revolutionary new feature or piece of technology with a new model
series.

Like the Kress drill driver that coverts to a superb angle drill too. It is
alone in that functionality and available from Wickes, badged as a Wickes.
Now £130, but was £99, so wait for the sales.

I assure you, none of these tools bounce, and
the thought of bouncing a Panasonic would be too much to contemplate,
so middle branded stuff it is, as they are cheap enough to replace.


This is another point.

With the branded manufacturers you can get the spares and good
service.

And out of action for a number of days too. So, that is why the pros buy
throw away stuff and cheapo backups.

I'll give you an example. Some while ago I managed to knock my
Metabo orbital sander off of the bench and broke the front handle.

The guys on sites do that week in week out.

I looked up the part and pricing and IIRC it was about £5. I ordered
it and it arrived the following morning. Free of charge.

That was not a show stopper.