Ok, Part P is now celebrating its first birthday.This time last year
opinions were very much divided regarding this new requirement.What are
the groups feelings now?

"michaelangelo7" wrote in message...
Ok, Part P is now celebrating its first birthday.This time last year
opinions were very much divided regarding this new requirement.What are
the groups feelings now?

I don't think its made any significant differance as to what competant
DIY'ers do in their own home (or incompetant ones for that matter).


--
Best Wishes
Simon (aka Dark Angel)
"Dark Angel's Realm of Horror" - http://www.realmofhorror.co.uk

In message , Dark
Angel wrote

"michaelangelo7" wrote in message...
Ok, Part P is now celebrating its first birthday.This time last year
opinions were very much divided regarding this new requirement.What are
the groups feelings now?

I don't think its made any significant differance as to what competant
DIY'ers do in their own home (or incompetant ones for that matter).


It must have saved hundreds of lives.

--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dark Angel wrote:

"michaelangelo7" wrote in message...
Ok, Part P is now celebrating its first birthday.This time last year
opinions were very much divided regarding this new requirement.What
are the groups feelings now?

I don't think its made any significant differance as to what competant
DIY'ers do in their own home (or incompetant ones for that matter).

Absolutely right - it's just made professional jobs more expensive!

But we knew that at the start, didn't we?!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

"michaelangelo7" wrote in message
oups.com...
Ok, Part P is now celebrating its first birthday.This time last year
opinions were very much divided regarding this new requirement.What are
the groups feelings now?


What is this "Part P" of which you speak? - Oh that piece of gob****e
nonsense, in reality quite irrelevant to most I think.

Henry

In article ,
"Dark Angel" writes:

"michaelangelo7" wrote in message...
Ok, Part P is now celebrating its first birthday.This time last year
opinions were very much divided regarding this new requirement.What are
the groups feelings now?

I don't think its made any significant differance as to what competant
DIY'ers do in their own home (or incompetant ones for that matter).

I haven't had time to browse the trade press for around 3 months,
but last time I did, it was looking like the majority of the
electrical trade was ignoring it anyway.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Alan" wrote in message
...
In message , Dark Angel
wrote

"michaelangelo7" wrote in message...
Ok, Part P is now celebrating its first birthday.This time last year
opinions were very much divided regarding this new requirement.What are
the groups feelings now?

I don't think its made any significant differance as to what competant
DIY'ers do in their own home (or incompetant ones for that matter).


It must have saved hundreds of lives.

Millions, even?

On 24 Jan 2006 23:18:13 GMT, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
"Dark Angel" writes:

"michaelangelo7" wrote in message...
Ok, Part P is now celebrating its first birthday.This time last year
opinions were very much divided regarding this new requirement.What are
the groups feelings now?

I don't think its made any significant differance as to what competant
DIY'ers do in their own home (or incompetant ones for that matter).

I haven't had time to browse the trade press for around 3 months,
but last time I did, it was looking like the majority of the
electrical trade was ignoring it anyway.

The notices about it seem to have vanished from B&Q Warehouse long ago...
Looks like everyone is treating it with exactly the respect it deserves, i.e. none.

Dark Angel wrote:
"michaelangelo7" wrote in message...
Ok, Part P is now celebrating its first birthday.This time last year
opinions were very much divided regarding this new requirement.What are
the groups feelings now?

I don't think its made any significant differance as to what competant
DIY'ers do in their own home (or incompetant ones for that matter).

Bodged cabling will be far safer in harmonised colours.

HTH

Paul.

It's actually relevent to everyone.

And as all new fittings are going to be date stamped, if you fit something your not supposed to, or do any wiring yourself that needs building notice and you don't go through all the crap and expense that comes with it, and have a fire, your insurance company can and most probably WILL refuse to pay out.

The days of being a DIY electrician are out of the window.

"Pat-UK" wrote in message
...
And as all new fittings are going to be date stamped, if you fit
something your not supposed to, or do any wiring yourself that needs
building notice and you don't go through all the crap and expense that
comes with it, and have a fire, your insurance company can and most
probably WILL refuse to pay out.

The days of being a DIY electrician are out of the window.

BUT you CAN replace existing cables and fittings without the need for BCO
testing, how are they to know whether something is new or simply updated?


--
Best Wishes
Simon (aka Dark Angel)
"Dark Angel's Realm of Horror" - http://www.realmofhorror.co.uk

"Dark Angel" wrote in message
...

"Pat-UK" wrote in message
...
And as all new fittings are going to be date stamped, if you fit
something your not supposed to, or do any wiring yourself that needs
building notice and you don't go through all the crap and expense that
comes with it, and have a fire, your insurance company can and most
probably WILL refuse to pay out.

The days of being a DIY electrician are out of the window.

BUT you CAN replace existing cables and fittings without the need for BCO
testing, how are they to know whether something is new or simply updated?

And new colour cables were available before the law came into force so whats
not to say it was done before Part P?
No real way or proving/disproving when work was done other than someones
word.

Only if you use new items. Buy up old stock of red and black cable (ebay still selling loads) and check all other items for dates (if they have them) before installing.

After all, whats the likelyhood of having a house fire in your lifetime?

"Part P Avoider" wrote in message
...

Pat-UK Wrote:
It's actually relevent to everyone.

And as all new fittings are going to be date stamped, if you fit
something your not supposed to, or do any wiring yourself that needs
building notice and you don't go through all the crap and expense that
comes with it, and have a fire, your insurance company can and most
probably WILL refuse to pay out.

The days of being a DIY electrician are out of the window.


Only if you use new items. Buy up old stock of red and black cable
(ebay still selling loads) and check all other items for dates (if they
have them) before installing.

After all, whats the likelyhood of having a house fire in your
lifetime?



Just make sure the certificate goes up with the house!

Part P Avoider wrote:
Pat-UK Wrote:

It's actually relevent to everyone.

And as all new fittings are going to be date stamped, if you fit
something your not supposed to, or do any wiring yourself that needs
building notice and you don't go through all the crap and expense that
comes with it, and have a fire, your insurance company can and most
probably WILL refuse to pay out.

The days of being a DIY electrician are out of the window.



Only if you use new items. Buy up old stock of red and black cable
(ebay still selling loads) and check all other items for dates (if they
have them) before installing.

After all, whats the likelyhood of having a house fire in your
lifetime?

Do you not have buildings insurance then?

Been seen and done and have the grey hair to prove, Fires do happen, I had one, and know how much of a shi* insurance companies can be.

Pat-UK wrote:

The days of being a DIY electrician are out of the window.

Can't see many round these parts agreeing with you...

--
Cheers,

John.

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Alan wrote:

It must have saved hundreds of lives.

hundreds of the er... 10 - 20 each year who die as a result of fixed
wiring faults.

Although seriously, if people do start taking notice of it in a big way
it would be interesting to know how many more it actually kills.

--
Cheers,

John.

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Pat-UK wrote:
Part P Wrote:
Part P Avoider wrote:
After all, whats the likelyhood of having a house fire in your
lifetime?



Been seen and done and have the grey hair to prove, Fires do happen, I
had one, and know how much of a shi* insurance companies can be.

So tell us what caused it? I'll bet it was nothing that would have come
under Part P.

MBQ

And as all new fittings are going to be date stamped,

I take it is not happening yet as I've a brnd new Carbtree fused switch
with no date info on it.

Rob

wrote in message
oups.com...
And as all new fittings are going to be date stamped,

I take it is not happening yet as I've a brnd new Carbtree fused switch
with no date info on it.


Manufacturers "may" apply a date stamp but its very unlikely to be really
indellible............

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 18:52:47 +0000 (UTC), "John"
wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...
And as all new fittings are going to be date stamped,

I take it is not happening yet as I've a brnd new Carbtree fused switch
with no date info on it.


Manufacturers "may" apply a date stamp but its very unlikely to be really
indellible............


Is there really any evidence to suggest that this would be used as a
policing mechanism anyway?


It seems very implausible that it would unless Something Bad were to
happen and BCOs took on a forensic role.

Realistically, in the normal run of things, are they going to bother?

It isn't as though one can have detector vans, is it?



--

..andy

In message , Owain
wrote
Andy Hall wrote:
Manufacturers "may" apply a date stamp but its very unlikely to be
really indellible............
Is there really any evidence to suggest that this would be used as a
policing mechanism anyway? ...
It isn't as though one can have detector vans, is it?

With RFID tags embedded in the product during manufacture, who knows.

Do you really believe that with electrical goods from the Peoples
Republic of China the tags will conform to any UK standard?

I'm sure that I could obtain _any_ electrical component with false
manufacturing date, or tag, within a few minutes of searching for a
foreign supplier on the web.

--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

In message .com,
michaelangelo7 writes
Ok, Part P is now celebrating its first birthday.This time last year
opinions were very much divided regarding this new requirement.What are
the groups feelings now?


From personal experience....

1: I've seen some really dodgy electrics. If it stops that then great.

2: Since Part P I've seen end users with really dodgy electrics turn a
blind eye and continue on, where previously it would have been sorted.

My uneducated/personal view is it will actually make things worse -
people avoiding having work done even when they know it needs doing.

"Part P - the resulting problem is probably bigger than that which it
attempts to solve".
Someone

"Part P - the resulting problem is probably bigger than that which it
attempts to solve".
Someone

Cowboys will be cowboys despite Part P.

Dave

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:50:30 GMT, somebody
wrote:

In message .com,
michaelangelo7 writes
Ok, Part P is now celebrating its first birthday.This time last year
opinions were very much divided regarding this new requirement.What are
the groups feelings now?


From personal experience....

1: I've seen some really dodgy electrics. If it stops that then great.

2: Since Part P I've seen end users with really dodgy electrics turn a
blind eye and continue on, where previously it would have been sorted.

Spot on.

I've got two sheds, one's wired up properly (all wires secured in
ducting, separate sockets and lighting rings etc.) the other isn't
(wires just tacked to shed walls, everything off one spur etc.).

I'd like to sort out the latter shed and, in pre Part P days, probably
would have done it by now but every time I look at it, I think, "is it
worth bothering with ?" and find something else to do,

Cheers,

John

"Owain" wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:
Manufacturers "may" apply a date stamp but its very unlikely to be really
indellible............
Is there really any evidence to suggest that this would be used as a
policing mechanism anyway? ...
It isn't as though one can have detector vans, is it?

With RFID tags embedded in the product during manufacture, who knows.


Come on this is Earth calling!
Putting devices in parts costing less than a tenner and only to help fat
jags isn't on the cards just yet I hope

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 06:21:41 +0000, Dave Stanton wrote:


"Part P - the resulting problem is probably bigger than that which it
attempts to solve".
Someone

Cowboys will be cowboys despite Part P.

Dave

and will get more customers because of the increased costs arising from Prat P

somebody wrote:
In message .com,
michaelangelo7 writes

Ok, Part P is now celebrating its first birthday.This time last year
opinions were very much divided regarding this new requirement.What are
the groups feelings now?


From personal experience....

1: I've seen some really dodgy electrics. If it stops that then great.

2: Since Part P I've seen end users with really dodgy electrics turn a
blind eye and continue on, where previously it would have been sorted.

My uneducated/personal view is it will actually make things worse -
people avoiding having work done even when they know it needs doing.

"Part P - the resulting problem is probably bigger than that which it
attempts to solve".
Someone

To true. I have situation in my house where I discovered a run of cable
running well outside the permitted zones (comes up from the floor,
behind some architrave and up to the loft embedded in plaster.
Technically I can't do anything about it, but at least I know its there.
If some poor bugger buys the house off us and replaces the door using
longer screws in the hinges I dread to think what will happen.

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:14:35 +0000,it is alleged that Richard Conway
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

somebody wrote:
In message .com,
michaelangelo7 writes

Ok, Part P is now celebrating its first birthday.This time last year
opinions were very much divided regarding this new requirement.What are
the groups feelings now?


From personal experience....

1: I've seen some really dodgy electrics. If it stops that then great.

2: Since Part P I've seen end users with really dodgy electrics turn a
blind eye and continue on, where previously it would have been sorted.

My uneducated/personal view is it will actually make things worse -
people avoiding having work done even when they know it needs doing.

"Part P - the resulting problem is probably bigger than that which it
attempts to solve".
Someone

To true. I have situation in my house where I discovered a run of cable
running well outside the permitted zones (comes up from the floor,
behind some architrave and up to the loft embedded in plaster.
Technically I can't do anything about it, but at least I know its there.
If some poor bugger buys the house off us and replaces the door using
longer screws in the hinges I dread to think what will happen.

The cable would become damaged, and thus be eligible for replacement
without notifying building control? :-)

--
You cannot shake hands with a clenched fist.
- Indira Gandhi

Chip wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:14:35 +0000,it is alleged that Richard Conway
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:


somebody wrote:

In message .com,
michaelangelo7 writes


Ok, Part P is now celebrating its first birthday.This time last year
opinions were very much divided regarding this new requirement.What are
the groups feelings now?


From personal experience....

1: I've seen some really dodgy electrics. If it stops that then great.

2: Since Part P I've seen end users with really dodgy electrics turn a
blind eye and continue on, where previously it would have been sorted.

My uneducated/personal view is it will actually make things worse -
people avoiding having work done even when they know it needs doing.

"Part P - the resulting problem is probably bigger than that which it
attempts to solve".
Someone

To true. I have situation in my house where I discovered a run of cable
running well outside the permitted zones (comes up from the floor,
behind some architrave and up to the loft embedded in plaster.
Technically I can't do anything about it, but at least I know its there.
If some poor bugger buys the house off us and replaces the door using
longer screws in the hinges I dread to think what will happen.


The cable would become damaged, and thus be eligible for replacement
without notifying building control? :-)


Yes, but the person screwing the hinge on may also become damaged.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Alan
saying something like:

In message , Dark
Angel wrote

"michaelangelo7" wrote in message...
Ok, Part P is now celebrating its first birthday.This time last year
opinions were very much divided regarding this new requirement.What are
the groups feelings now?

I don't think its made any significant differance as to what competant
DIY'ers do in their own home (or incompetant ones for that matter).


It must have saved hundreds of lives.

Ooh, thousands by this time, I would think.
--

Dave

michaelangelo7 wrote:

Ok, Part P is now celebrating its first birthday.This time last year
opinions were very much divided regarding this new requirement.What are
the groups feelings now?

This is a rather interesting statistic I've just worked out for myself on
the realities of Part P.

I've just discovered, due to looking for a house to buy, that Maidstone
(Kent) Borough Council have their Buildings Control Dept online - including
a searchable applications database.

Now, according to one document, Maidstone Borough has an estimated 52,300
private dwellings, including the town and rural surrounds, which include
dozens of villages and hamlets.

Source[1] [PDF] http://tinyurl.com/8zpvl

Searching for building notices containing the word "electrical" brings up
49 matches. There are 2 additional results for "Part P" that do not mention
"electrical". So about 51 BNAs for electrical work in isolation to any
other work.

So in a year or so, only one in a thousand dwellings in Maidstone Borough
had notifiable electrical work done either as DIY or by non-self-cert
electrician.

Likely?

Or not?

Cheers

Tim

PS

See for yourself[2]:

http://tinyurl.com/9w9z3

PPS: Longform URLS:

[1]
http://www.digitalmaidstone.co.uk/di...aspx?page=2536

[2]
http://www.digitalmaidstone.co.uk:80...ITERIA.display

Tim S wrote:

Searching for building notices containing the word "electrical" brings up
49 matches. There are 2 additional results for "Part P" that do not mention
"electrical". So about 51 BNAs for electrical work in isolation to any
other work.

So in a year or so, only one in a thousand dwellings in Maidstone Borough
had notifiable electrical work done either as DIY or by non-self-cert
electrician.

Likely?

Yup interesting. Which way will the trend go I wonder?

I just did another search on that almost equally pointless bit of
legislation:

Number of applications for a replacement window: 50
(which probably represents a higher application rate than for part P
since I expect less people do their own windows.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

Tim S wrote:

Searching for building notices containing the word "electrical" brings up
49 matches. There are 2 additional results for "Part P" that do not
mention "electrical". So about 51 BNAs for electrical work in isolation
to any other work.

So in a year or so, only one in a thousand dwellings in Maidstone Borough
had notifiable electrical work done either as DIY or by non-self-cert
electrician.

Likely?

Yup interesting. Which way will the trend go I wonder?


It is isn't it!

I just did another search on that almost equally pointless bit of
legislation:

Number of applications for a replacement window: 50
(which probably represents a higher application rate than for part P
since I expect less people do their own windows.


I did that too and found a similar result, but there are a lot more for
"replacement windows" - the search engine isn't very forgiving. A bit
harder to discern as some were due to replacing load bearing frames - but
it still seems a bit low.

Searching on "replacement windows" by calendar year on the registration
date, I found:

2003: 138
2004: 979 !!!
2005: 334

So, I'm going to tentatively interpret that as:

2003 - Part L - wot that then?
2004 - Solicitors asking for paperwork on sale of house in 2003 scares
people.
2005 - Solicitors stop caring and the panic subsides. I know a local parish
councillor who just bought a new house who was not aware of Part L in
relation to windows until I told him and I'd expect him to be a bit better
informed than many. Ergo, a lot of the general public still don't
know/don't care anyway.

I searched on "drains" too and found next to nothing, just a few, the
majority of which were connections to the main sewer.

Now, the missing statistic: what percentage of dwellings do you reckon do
notifiable DIY/none-self-cert handyman jobs in a year?

1 in a 1000 seems awfully low. Now, as to the demographics of this part of
Kent: lots of well off types who don't DIY and would pay a top class firm
to do their jobs. However, there are also loads of property owning builders
round my way who do DIY their own houses, and less well off people who
probably would. The rate of serious DIY seems lower amongst the middle
classes than when I lived in Banstead, Surrey. Though that's also comparing
the 70's with now. Is heavy duty DIY less popular now than then?

Tim

Tim S wrote:

I did that too and found a similar result, but there are a lot more for
"replacement windows" - the search engine isn't very forgiving. A bit

Yup, sorry forgot to say I restricted my search to 2005 only. I also
only searched for "replacement window"

--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 15:01:25 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

Tim S wrote:

I did that too and found a similar result, but there are a lot more for
"replacement windows" - the search engine isn't very forgiving. A bit



I dunno if this is relevant or not but I'm putting in a
self-cert-notification for about 25% of the properties I work at.
About one third of those notification would be for some Part-P work.
More often as not they are for the boiler controls in the kitchen.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 15:01:25 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

Tim S wrote:

I did that too and found a similar result, but there are a lot more for
"replacement windows" - the search engine isn't very forgiving. A bit

I dunno if this is relevant or not but I'm putting in a
self-cert-notification for about 25% of the properties I work at.
About one third of those notification would be for some Part-P work.
More often as not they are for the boiler controls in the kitchen.

So, you have not done the Part P Corgi course then? You can replace but not
install new cable to boilers. Only from the fused Spur.

Tim S wrote:

Searching on "replacement windows" by calendar year on the registration
date, I found:

2003: 138
2004: 979 !!!
2005: 334


Just had the ceiling skimmed recently. The plasterer said that private
work reduced massively in 2005, as people just did not have enough spare
cash because of fuel and taxation costs rising.

Regards
Capitol

Capitol wrote:



Tim S wrote:

Searching on "replacement windows" by calendar year on the registration
date, I found:

2003: 138
2004: 979 !!!
2005: 334


Just had the ceiling skimmed recently. The plasterer said that private
work reduced massively in 2005, as people just did not have enough spare
cash because of fuel and taxation costs rising.

Regards
Capitol


That's interesting, it correlates in the right direction. Wonder if it
accounts for all the drop-off or not?

Turning your point around, I wonder if lack of dosh might see an increase in
DIY.

Tim