Our local B&Q warehouse are selling off their Ravenheat boilers at
reduced prices.

For example, the bottom of the range combi is now £299.

Ideal for anyone who is doing up a property to sell on etc.

Dunno if it's a nationwide thing or just local.

sponix

"sPoNiX" wrote in message
...
Our local B&Q warehouse are selling off their Ravenheat boilers at
reduced prices.

For example, the bottom of the range combi is now £299.

Best to buy two and fit them in.

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:43:24 +0000, sPoNiX wrote:

Our local B&Q warehouse are selling off their Ravenheat boilers at
reduced prices.

For example, the bottom of the range combi is now £299.

Presumably non-condensing

Ideal for anyone who is doing up a property to sell on etc.

and who's going to cowboy fit them :-)

John Stumbles wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:43:24 +0000, sPoNiX wrote:

Our local B&Q warehouse are selling off their Ravenheat boilers at
reduced prices.

For example, the bottom of the range combi is now £299.

Presumably non-condensing

so ?

Ideal for anyone who is doing up a property to sell on etc.

and who's going to cowboy fit them :-)

discounted boilers = cowboys ?

c',mon, lets see your workings out.

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:06:02 GMT, John Stumbles
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:43:24 +0000, sPoNiX wrote:

Our local B&Q warehouse are selling off their Ravenheat boilers at
reduced prices.

For example, the bottom of the range combi is now £299.

Presumably non-condensing

They had a condensor at £299

"." [email protected] wrote in message
...
John Stumbles wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:43:24 +0000, sPoNiX wrote:

Our local B&Q warehouse are selling off their Ravenheat boilers at
reduced prices.

For example, the bottom of the range combi is now £299.

Presumably non-condensing

so ?

Ideal for anyone who is doing up a property to sell on etc.

and who's going to cowboy fit them :-)

discounted boilers = cowboys ?

c',mon, lets see your workings out.

Don't you feel ashamed defending cowboys?

sPoNiX wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:06:02 GMT, John Stumbles
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:43:24 +0000, sPoNiX wrote:

Our local B&Q warehouse are selling off their Ravenheat boilers at
reduced prices.

For example, the bottom of the range combi is now £299.

Presumably non-condensing

They had a condensor at £299

feels national seismic rumble of every plumber rushing to B&Q

/calls brother in law .......

John Stumbles wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:43:24 +0000, sPoNiX wrote:


Our local B&Q warehouse are selling off their Ravenheat boilers at
reduced prices.

For example, the bottom of the range combi is now £299.


Presumably non-condensing


Ideal for anyone who is doing up a property to sell on etc.


and who's going to cowboy fit them :-)

Out of interest - I was chatting to my favourite CORGI last week, and he
said his firm was rushed off their feet at the moment fitting new
boilers, which he reckoned was due to the demise of cowboy fitters since
the new regs and associated paperwork came in.

Having said that, I see there's still plenty of non-condensing boilers
on sale everywhere, and I'm sure they aren't all destined for the
minority of locations for which a condensing model is inappropriate...

David

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
John Stumbles wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:43:24 +0000, sPoNiX wrote:


Our local B&Q warehouse are selling off their Ravenheat boilers at
reduced prices.

For example, the bottom of the range combi is now £299.


Presumably non-condensing


Ideal for anyone who is doing up a property to sell on etc.


and who's going to cowboy fit them :-)

Out of interest - I was chatting to my favourite CORGI last week, and he
said his firm was rushed off their feet at the moment fitting new boilers,
which he reckoned was due to the demise of cowboy fitters since the new
regs and associated paperwork came in.

Having said that, I see there's still plenty of non-condensing boilers on
sale everywhere, and I'm sure they aren't all destined for the minority of
locations for which a condensing model is inappropriate...

I was talking the man in Wickes. He said the non-condensing combi sell more
than the condensing, even in branches that don't have many flats around
them.

The old wives tale that condensers are unreliable still holds.

In article
.. [email protected] wrote:
John Stumbles wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:43:24 +0000, sPoNiX wrote:

Our local B&Q warehouse are selling off their Ravenheat boilers at
reduced prices.

For example, the bottom of the range combi is now £299.

Presumably non-condensing

so ?

There's a limited set of circumstances in which it's still legal to fit
non-condensing boilers.

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:28:38 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:



I was talking the man in Wickes. He said the non-condensing combi sell more
than the condensing, even in branches that don't have many flats around
them.

The old wives tale that condensers are unreliable still holds.

You didn't really expect old wive's tales to all change overnight, did
you?


--

..andy

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 16:41:49 GMT, "." [email protected] wrote:

sPoNiX wrote:

feels national seismic rumble of every plumber rushing to B&Q

/calls brother in law .......

Probably a good idea to call first as A) I dunno if the offer is local
or national and B) They were flying out the door.

sponix

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:28:38 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


The old wives tale that condensers are unreliable still holds.

But condensors must be more unrealiable, almost by definition. They
are more complicated, therefore more to go wrong.

sponix

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:34:19 +0000, . wrote:

John Stumbles wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:43:24 +0000, sPoNiX wrote:

Our local B&Q warehouse are selling off their Ravenheat boilers at
reduced prices.

For example, the bottom of the range combi is now £299.

Presumably non-condensing

so ?

Ideal for anyone who is doing up a property to sell on etc.

and who's going to cowboy fit them :-)

discounted boilers = cowboys ?

c',mon, lets see your workings out.

The upside is £300-600 (relative to a premium model).

The downside is
1) Illegal
2) No paperwork.
3) More gas used.
4) More expensive spares.
5) Possibly less reliable.
6) Possibly no guarantee (Benchmark book cannot filled in.)

The installer is in one of four classes.
DIY
You could argue competency implies doing thing right by law...
1) Unlikely to be enforced. 2) Not likely to be a problem.
3-6) No your problem if selling.

Legit CORGI.
1-6 Do nothing to enhance your reputation or business plan.

Dodgy CORGI.
1) Doesn't care. 2-6) Not his problem.
Won't yet get checked up on since CORGI don't know he installed it.
I have no idea what happens when/if CORGI do find out. The result is not
likely to be getting struck off but it could wipe out the profits from
several jobs. CORGI may insist the installer redoes the job properly at
his own expense.

Cowboy.
As previous. Except that CORGI if/when they find out will probably make
sure the book gets thrown at the installer in court - the fine will likely
run to a few thousand. Only likely to come to light if there is a safety
issue arising from the matter.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 21:55:48 +0000, sponix wrote:

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:28:38 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


The old wives tale that condensers are unreliable still holds.

But condensors must be more unrealiable, almost by definition. They
are more complicated, therefore more to go wrong.

sponix



This needs to be looked at in context.

It is possible to manufacture a non condensing boiler using simple
components and controls, no fan, a fixed pilot light etc. and it may
well be reliable for a long time. However, it will be at the bottom
of the efficiency range of even a few years ago and in the case of a
lot of designs it was not possible to meet minimum requirements
without the addition of a fan and pilotless electronic ignition.

Early UK attempts at making condensing boilers adapted these
inappropriate designs without changing the materials used and
essentially bolting bits on. Hence the reputation of these models.

Manufacturers in Germany and Holland did a proper design exercise and
were able to produce good quality condensing designs at least 15 years
ago.

If one takes a recent design non condensing boiler that met more
recent efficiency requirements, it typically has a fan flue,
electronic ignition and control and a large heat exchanger.

A condensing boiler has all of these plus a condensate trap and drain.
That's about it.

So to say that a condensing boiler is unreliable in comparison to a
recent non condensing design really doesn't hold up.


--

..andy

Ed Sirett wrote:

run to a few thousand. Only likely to come to light if there is a safety
issue arising from the matter.

.... and they can work out who the Dr. Drib^h^h^h^h^h^h^h cowboy is!

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 22:22:44 +0000, Ed Sirett
wrote:


The upside is £300-600 (relative to a premium model).

The downside is
1) Illegal
2) No paperwork.
3) More gas used.
4) More expensive spares.
5) Possibly less reliable.
6) Possibly no guarantee (Benchmark book cannot filled in.)

The installer is in one of four classes.
DIY
Legit CORGI.
Dodgy CORGI.
Cowboy.


Jeez!

It is still legal to fit noncondensing boilers in a fairly large
number of applications. In fact in some applications you can't fit
anything else! Have you actually read the rules?

Our local B&Q have a range of boilers at various prices, all
discounted and obviously you select one that fits your own application
rather than one that doesn't. If you want a condensing one then you
buy a condensing one.

The boilers on offer a

1. NOT illegal if installed in correct circumstances.
2. Come with paperwork, manuals etc.
3. Don't use any more gas than an equivalent boiler.
4. Aren't more expensive for spares.
5. Less reliable? Who knows?
6. Come with a 12 month guarantee and Benchmark paperwork.

Why does a boiler being on special offer indicate a cowboy or non
legit plumber? Do you always buy your DIY stuff from the most
expensive supplier? If you do then you are an idiot.

All I'm trying to do is point out a selection of very competitively
priced boilers which might just help one or two people out.

I thought the whole idea of this ng was to help other people out?

sponix

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 23:09:16 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

So to say that a condensing boiler is unreliable in comparison to a
recent non condensing design really doesn't hold up.

No, but a recent non-condeser will always be more reliable that a
comparable condenser.

sponix

sPoNiX wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 22:22:44 +0000, Ed Sirett
wrote:


The upside is £300-600 (relative to a premium model).

The downside is
1) Illegal
2) No paperwork.
3) More gas used.
4) More expensive spares.
5) Possibly less reliable.
6) Possibly no guarantee (Benchmark book cannot filled in.)

The installer is in one of four classes.
DIY
Legit CORGI.
Dodgy CORGI.
Cowboy.


Jeez!

It is still legal to fit noncondensing boilers in a fairly large
number of applications. In fact in some applications you can't fit
anything else! Have you actually read the rules?

Our local B&Q have a range of boilers at various prices, all
discounted and obviously you select one that fits your own application
rather than one that doesn't. If you want a condensing one then you
buy a condensing one.

The boilers on offer a

1. NOT illegal if installed in correct circumstances.
2. Come with paperwork, manuals etc.
3. Don't use any more gas than an equivalent boiler.
4. Aren't more expensive for spares.
5. Less reliable? Who knows?
6. Come with a 12 month guarantee and Benchmark paperwork.

Why does a boiler being on special offer indicate a cowboy or non
legit plumber? Do you always buy your DIY stuff from the most
expensive supplier? If you do then you are an idiot.

All I'm trying to do is point out a selection of very competitively
priced boilers which might just help one or two people out.

I thought the whole idea of this ng was to help other people out?

sponix

............... wot ee said, 100% agreement.

I respect ed sirret as a good un, very knowledgeable, he ought to
allow for the undeniable fact that he's not alone ... up there.

On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:13:29 GMT, "." [email protected] wrote:


.............. wot ee said, 100% agreement.

I respect ed sirret as a good un, very knowledgeable, he ought to
allow for the undeniable fact that he's not alone ... up there.

OK, so show me where in the "rules" that it states it illegal to buy a
non-condensing boiler?

Also, take another look at my first post and read it this time. Where
did I advicate buying and installing a non-condensor illegally?

All I did was point out that B&Q are selling off all their Ravenheat
boilers and that the cheapest (Non condensor) was £299.

sponix

sPoNiX wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:13:29 GMT, "." [email protected] wrote:


.............. wot ee said, 100% agreement.

I respect ed sirret as a good un, very knowledgeable, he ought to
allow for the undeniable fact that he's not alone ... up there.

OK, so show me where in the "rules" that it states it illegal to buy a
non-condensing boiler?

I'm agreeing with /you/ ! your post was a first class reposte and said
all I was about to say in response to ed's position on this matter.

Also, take another look at my first post and read it this time. Where
did I advicate buying and installing a non-condensor illegally?

you didn't, I'm _agreeing_ with /you/ (btw it's advOcate)

All I did was point out that B&Q are selling off all their Ravenheat
boilers and that the cheapest (Non condensor) was £299.

sponix

I know, I'm agreeing with you: "wot eee said, 100%" i.e. YOU ! :-)

On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 11:11:09 GMT, "." [email protected] wrote:

sPoNiX wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:13:29 GMT, "." [email protected] wrote:


.............. wot ee said, 100% agreement.

I respect ed sirret as a good un, very knowledgeable, he ought to
allow for the undeniable fact that he's not alone ... up there.

OK, so show me where in the "rules" that it states it illegal to buy a
non-condensing boiler?

I'm agreeing with /you/ ! your post was a first class reposte and said
all I was about to say in response to ed's position on this matter.

Also, take another look at my first post and read it this time. Where
did I advicate buying and installing a non-condensor illegally?

you didn't, I'm _agreeing_ with /you/ (btw it's advOcate)

All I did was point out that B&Q are selling off all their Ravenheat
boilers and that the cheapest (Non condensor) was £299.

sponix

I know, I'm agreeing with you: "wot eee said, 100%" i.e. YOU ! :-)

Ah. I thought you weren't agreeing with me.

I'll get my coat.

sponix

On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:21:58 GMT, (sPoNiX) wrote:

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 23:09:16 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

So to say that a condensing boiler is unreliable in comparison to a
recent non condensing design really doesn't hold up.

No, but a recent non-condeser will always be more reliable that a
comparable condenser.

sponix


That was my point. It won't be, because the only significant
difference is the few pieces of plastic that comprise the condensate
trap and drain.

Comparing recent condensing and non condensing products:

- both have a fairly large heat exchanger
- both have a fanned flue
- both have electronic ignition
- both have an electronic control system


Where do you get the notion that a condensate drain makes a product
unreliable?

That is not very plausible.


--

..andy

On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 16:49:40 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:21:58 GMT, (sPoNiX) wrote:

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 23:09:16 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

So to say that a condensing boiler is unreliable in comparison to a
recent non condensing design really doesn't hold up.

No, but a recent non-condeser will always be more reliable that a
comparable condenser.

sponix


That was my point. It won't be, because the only significant
difference is the few pieces of plastic that comprise the condensate
trap and drain.

Comparing recent condensing and non condensing products:

- both have a fairly large heat exchanger
- both have a fanned flue
- both have electronic ignition
- both have an electronic control system


Where do you get the notion that a condensate drain makes a product
unreliable?

That is not very plausible.

I have to agree with you Andy.

The only parts that are different are the burner, heatXer and condensate
stuff.

The fans for premix burners are better made than the simple shaded pole
combustion fans of non-premix units.

There is no APS on a condensing boiler.

The heatXer is made of more corrosion resistant materials - hence it
is likely to out survive the non-condensor which eventually corrode.

The plastic bits are pretty trivial and the only problem is likely to be a
blocked condensate pipe which is unlikely on a quality install.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:18:57 +0000, sPoNiX wrote:

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 22:22:44 +0000, Ed Sirett
wrote:


The boilers on offer a

1. NOT illegal if installed in correct circumstances.

Well if you discount the legitimacy of Part-L building regs in 90% of
homes.

2. Come with paperwork, manuals etc.

Indeed but not filled in. Especially the fact that building regs approval
is required to install a boiler or self-certification of compliance.

3. Don't use any more gas than an equivalent boiler.
True.

4. Aren't more expensive for spares.

Now this is just plain wrong. Compare the spare part prices for a
Biasi or Alpha against the spares part prices for a Worcester or Vailant.

5. Less reliable? Who knows?
Time will tell. I'm not expecting any upset of the "form book" on this one.

6. Come with a 12 month guarantee and Benchmark paperwork.
Which needs registering and filling in and signing - and that means
certifying it complies with the regs.


Why does a boiler being on special offer indicate a cowboy or non
legit plumber? Do you always buy your DIY stuff from the most
expensive supplier? If you do then you are an idiot.

It's not the special offer, it's the fact that in 90%+ of homes it would
be illegal. Law breaking whilst more of a life style option that it used
to be is not common practice amongst those avoid cowboy status.


All I'm trying to do is point out a selection of very competitively
priced boilers which might just help one or two people out.

I thought the whole idea of this ng was to help other people out?

I think my contributions over the years and the FAQs below speak for
themselves in this matter.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:39:58 +0000, sPoNiX wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:13:29 GMT, "." [email protected] wrote:


.............. wot ee said, 100% agreement.

I respect ed sirret as a good un, very knowledgeable, he ought to
allow for the undeniable fact that he's not alone ... up there.

OK, so show me where in the "rules" that it states it illegal to buy a
non-condensing boiler?

There isn't one. However are you never going to fit it? A bit
pointless not to. I doubt it's going to appreciate much sitting in the
shed.



Also, take another look at my first post and read it this time. Where
did I advicate buying and installing a non-condensor illegally?

All I did was point out that B&Q are selling off all their Ravenheat
boilers and that the cheapest (Non condensor) was £299.

Sorry, my fault. I thought you were trying to argue for buying up a
non-condensor and fitting it simply because it's cheap regardless of the
rules. Please accept my apologies if I over did things.

DrD. Please note this is the way to deal with things when you are wrong.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

John Rumm wrote:
Ed Sirett wrote:

run to a few thousand. Only likely to come to light if there is a safety
issue arising from the matter.

... and they can work out who the Dr. Drib^h^h^h^h^h^h^h cowboy is!

If you mean Dr Drivel/IMM, then you don't known what you are on about.
He is the most informative person here on heating and water. I know, I
have constantly taken his advice to great success.

sPoNiX wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 22:22:44 +0000, Ed Sirett
wrote:


The upside is £300-600 (relative to a premium model).

The downside is
1) Illegal
2) No paperwork.
3) More gas used.
4) More expensive spares.
5) Possibly less reliable.
6) Possibly no guarantee (Benchmark book cannot filled in.)

The installer is in one of four classes.
DIY
Legit CORGI.
Dodgy CORGI.
Cowboy.


Jeez!

It is still legal to fit noncondensing boilers in a fairly large
number of applications. In fact in some applications you can't fit
anything else! Have you actually read the rules?

Our local B&Q have a range of boilers at various prices, all
discounted and obviously you select one that fits your own application
rather than one that doesn't. If you want a condensing one then you
buy a condensing one.

The boilers on offer a

1. NOT illegal if installed in correct circumstances.
2. Come with paperwork, manuals etc.
3. Don't use any more gas than an equivalent boiler.
4. Aren't more expensive for spares.
5. Less reliable? Who knows?
6. Come with a 12 month guarantee and Benchmark paperwork.

Why does a boiler being on special offer indicate a cowboy or non
legit plumber? Do you always buy your DIY stuff from the most
expensive supplier? If you do then you are an idiot.

All I'm trying to do is point out a selection of very competitively
priced boilers which might just help one or two people out.

I thought the whole idea of this ng was to help other people out?

sponix

I agree with you. My point is that I would not touch a Ravenheat
because of bad reports. I have never used one and use top branded
products as that impressed the customer. The 'Bosch' on the front
gives confidence in people who buy. That is the way it is.

wrote:

If you mean Dr Drivel/IMM, then you don't known what you are on about.
He is the most informative person here on heating and water.

Then why when anyone posts a question regarding boiler or heating system
problems does he never answer? Set Square, Ed, Boilerdoc etc. seem to
contribute far more useful information on these matters than the
advertising babble that your hero is forever regurgitating.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
wrote:

If you mean Dr Drivel/IMM, then you don't known what you are on about.
He is the most informative person here on heating and water.

Then why when anyone posts a question regarding boiler or heating system
problems does he never answer? Set Square, Ed, Boilerdoc etc. seem to
contribute far more useful information on these matters than the
advertising babble that your hero is forever regurgitating.

I install things not fix them. He is the best here at installation
designs by a mile. The only advice I have ever taken in heating and
water has been from him. I'm sure the others are good. IMM has come out
with practical and at times inventive and cost effective ways to
install. Ways I would never have though of. Offer him a problem and he
come up with the goods every time, and often offering a number of ways
to do it. You don't see this as you don't install.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

wrote:

I install things not fix them. He is the best here at installation
designs by a mile. The only advice I have ever taken in heating and

You have to be joking... he routinely comes up with overly complex half
arsed solutions to problems, that don't actually satisfy the
requirements. When someone points this out he sets about bodging ever
more complexity onto them to try and "patch" what was a daft idear in
the first place. Not saying he is always wrong or always posts poor
advice, its just I can't be bothered sorting the useful stuff from the
immense volume of crap you have to wade through to find it.

water has been from him. I'm sure the others are good. IMM has come out
with practical and at times inventive and cost effective ways to
install. Ways I would never have though of.

now that I can believe...

Offer him a problem and he
come up with the goods every time, and often offering a number of ways

Your rose tinted specs must be dirty.

to do it. You don't see this as you don't install.

;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
wrote:

I install things not fix them. He is the best here at installation
designs by a mile. The only advice I have ever taken in heating and

You have to be joking...

I am not joking, I install things.

he routinely comes up with overly complex half
arsed solutions to problems, that don't actually satisfy the
requirements. When someone points this out he sets about bodging ever
more complexity onto them to try and "patch" what was a daft idear in
the first place. Not saying he is always wrong or always posts poor
advice, its just I can't be bothered sorting the useful stuff from the
immense volume of crap you have to wade through to find it.

water has been from him. I'm sure the others are good. IMM has come out
with practical and at times inventive and cost effective ways to
install. Ways I would never have though of.

now that I can believe...

Offer him a problem and he
come up with the goods every time, and often offering a number of ways

Your rose tinted specs must be dirty.

I install systems and with IMM I would be putting in tanks and
employing idiot plumbers. And I have come across some plumbers who
still think it is the sixties.

to do it. You don't see this as you don't install.

;-)

I am not going to argue with you. You are clearly no expert in heating
and water, so your view is irrelevant. I have used his advice on a
number of occassions and he has got me out problems quickly and cheaply
and the systems worked and delivered. And I did use two combis,
something which many simpletons on this group can't get their heads
around and tend to mock, which was a quick, simple and a highly cost
effective way to get high flowrates, save space and create two zones.
Highly recommended, I know I have done it. And the Rinnai multi point
IMM put me onto worked wonderfully.

Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

wrote:

I install things not fix them. He is the best here at installation
designs by a mile. The only advice I have ever taken in heating and

You have to be joking...


I am not joking, I install things.

I am sure you do... you were joking when you said he was the best here
at... well anything really. Most of the time he is as clueless as you
seem to be.

I install systems and with IMM I would be putting in tanks and
employing idiot plumbers. And I have come across some plumbers who
still think it is the sixties.

Erm, yes.

I am not going to argue with you.

Obviously not the case....

You are clearly no expert in heating
and water, so your view is irrelevant. I have used his advice on a

I don't claim to be an expert - however I can apply analytical thinking
to the subject - something drivel usually fails to do. Drivel does claim
to be an expert, but anyone can see that in reality he is nothing more
than an armchair plumber with too much time on his hands.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article , John
Rumm writes

You have to be joking... he routinely comes up with overly complex half
arsed solutions to problems,

You _do_ realise timegoesby is Drivel is IMM is News is Adam is etc. ?

In article . com,
wrote:
I install systems and with IMM I would be putting in tanks and
employing idiot plumbers. And I have come across some plumbers who
still think it is the sixties.

By the way you write the exact opposite of what I'd guess you mean you are
in fact IMM anyway?

--
*I have a degree in liberal arts -- do you want fries with that

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Mike Tomlinson wrote:

In article , John
Rumm writes


You have to be joking... he routinely comes up with overly complex half
arsed solutions to problems,


You _do_ realise timegoesby is Drivel is IMM is News is Adam is etc. ?

I have have suspected it on occasion (like now for example!), although I
am not yet convinced... I have never seen any of dribbles (obvious)
concocted identities that can string a coherent sentence together yet.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 08:58:35 +0000, Mike Tomlinson
wrote:

In article , John
Rumm writes

You have to be joking... he routinely comes up with overly complex half
arsed solutions to problems,

You _do_ realise timegoesby is Drivel is IMM is News is Adam is etc. ?

Surely everyone knows that.......except timegoesby, Drivel, IMM etc.


--

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:30:47 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Mike Tomlinson wrote:

In article , John
Rumm writes


You have to be joking... he routinely comes up with overly complex half
arsed solutions to problems,


You _do_ realise timegoesby is Drivel is IMM is News is Adam is etc. ?

I have have suspected it on occasion (like now for example!), although I
am not yet convinced... I have never seen any of dribbles (obvious)
concocted identities that can string a coherent sentence together yet.


Perhaps we should engage Mr Utterson....



--

..andy

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , John
Rumm writes

You have to be joking... he routinely
comes up with overly complex half
arsed solutions to problems,

You _do_ realise timegoesby is Drivel
is IMM is News is Adam is etc. ?

You forgot Icky the Firebobby too. You have to realise that My Arse, Mr
Tomlinson here is barking mad. How is the job at Liverpool JM uni going?
May not be for long if you keep it it.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article . com,
wrote:

I install systems and with IMM I would be putting in tanks and
employing idiot plumbers. And I have come across some plumbers who
still think it is the sixties.

By the way

** snip senilty by a loonie **

It had to be snipped.