Hi All


I know this has been debated in the past but I am damned if I can
remember the final verdict (if there ever was one!)

I have a 10 foot by 8 foot tongue and groove shed which I am siting on a
concrete slab.

I intend to insulate it with either Crown Wool or Dry Therm - I can
easily build up the sheds battening to accomodate a decent thickness of
either. My inclination at the moment is to go with 75mm dry therm cut
to fit. The inner skin would be 4mm hardboard nailed over the insulation

Question is ......... do I need a moisture barrier? I suspect I do, and
should it go between the insulation and the outer skin of the shed or
between the insulation and the inner skin. I would think it should be
the former.

I was intending to use standard clear plastic dpm - which I will
probably have left over from casting the concrete slab.

Not sure how to go about insulating the floor yet! It will be 12mm
sterling board or ply on 4x2 'joists' which sit on the concrete.Its just
possible that I could lay rows of bricks on top of the slab and sit the
joists onto the bricks - to keep the damp out of the joists. I had
thought about nailing a board - Something like a couple of strips of
feather edge to close the open ends between the joists. Close enough to
the ground to keep the mice out but would still allow some limited
movement of air. I hope to give the underside of the shed a coat of
bitumastic to help keep the damp out.

I have plans on how to deal with the windows (double glazing which I
just happen to have and thick curtains) and the door (an insualted lobby
with an outer door built onto the side of the shed, both doors
draftproofed).

I know it sounds a bit belt and braces but I need to be able to store
'electrical stuff' in there that would be totally knackered in an
ordinary shed. I have a (limited) power supply laid on and will have a
tubular heater on a stat to stop the place freezing in winter. The cold
isn't such a desperate problem as the combination of damp and cold.

It will also have the added bonus of being warm enough to sleep in when
the wife locks me out )

All wisdom (on the insulation, not the wife) gratefully received!


regards




Dudley

"Dudley" wrote in message
...
Hi All


I know this has been debated in the past but I am damned if I can remember
the final verdict (if there ever was one!)

I have a 10 foot by 8 foot tongue and groove shed which I am siting on a
concrete slab.

I intend to insulate it with either Crown Wool or Dry Therm - I can easily
build up the sheds battening to accomodate a decent thickness of either.
My inclination at the moment is to go with 75mm dry therm cut to fit. The
inner skin would be 4mm hardboard nailed over the insulation

Question is ......... do I need a moisture barrier? I suspect I do, and
should it go between the insulation and the outer skin of the shed or
between the insulation and the inner skin. I would think it should be the
former.

I was intending to use standard clear plastic dpm - which I will probably
have left over from casting the concrete slab.

Not sure how to go about insulating the floor yet! It will be 12mm
sterling board or ply on 4x2 'joists' which sit on the concrete.Its just
possible that I could lay rows of bricks on top of the slab and sit the
joists onto the bricks - to keep the damp out of the joists. I had
thought about nailing a board - Something like a couple of strips of
feather edge to close the open ends between the joists. Close enough to
the ground to keep the mice out but would still allow some limited
movement of air. I hope to give the underside of the shed a coat of
bitumastic to help keep the damp out.

I have plans on how to deal with the windows (double glazing which I just
happen to have and thick curtains) and the door (an insualted lobby with
an outer door built onto the side of the shed, both doors draftproofed).

I know it sounds a bit belt and braces but I need to be able to store
'electrical stuff' in there that would be totally knackered in an ordinary
shed. I have a (limited) power supply laid on and will have a tubular
heater on a stat to stop the place freezing in winter. The cold isn't
such a desperate problem as the combination of damp and cold.

It will also have the added bonus of being warm enough to sleep in when
the wife locks me out )

All wisdom (on the insulation, not the wife) gratefully received!


regards




Dudley

I insulated mine with 40mm Rockwool slabs and then lined the shed with
polythene sheet stapled to the joists, works great in the summer as I used
to boil working in it , its ok in the winter with a little 1kw fan heater ,
not noticed any damp problems

Dudley wrote:

I intend to insulate it with either Crown Wool or Dry Therm - I can
easily build up the sheds battening to accomodate a decent thickness of
either. My inclination at the moment is to go with 75mm dry therm cut
to fit.

Some form of rigid insulation is the simplest to install. I used 50mm
jablite on mine. Foil covered PIR foam would have been better still but
I could not find it at a sensible price at the time. I did not bother
with a vapour barrier myself.

The inner skin would be 4mm hardboard nailed over the insulation

You might want to consider something a bit more substantial like 12mm
ply since that will allow direct fixing of shelves and hooks etc without
needing to find a stud all the time.

Question is ......... do I need a moisture barrier? I suspect I do, and
should it go between the insulation and the outer skin of the shed or
between the insulation and the inner skin. I would think it should be
the former.

If I were using one, then I would put it under the exterior cladding.

Not sure how to go about insulating the floor yet! It will be 12mm
sterling board or ply on 4x2 'joists' which sit on the concrete.Its just
possible that I could lay rows of bricks on top of the slab and sit the
joists onto the bricks - to keep the damp out of the joists. I had

I went with the joists on half bricks solution. Seems to work ok. I used
3/4" ply on the floor with no other insulation.

http://www.internode.ltd.uk/workshop/images/thebase.jpg

thought about nailing a board - Something like a couple of strips of
feather edge to close the open ends between the joists. Close enough to
the ground to keep the mice out but would still allow some limited
movement of air. I hope to give the underside of the shed a coat of
bitumastic to help keep the damp out.

Treat all the wood that will be inaccessible with several coats of wood
preserver. I found with the on bricks solution you can have a skirt that
goes down to just below the top of the bricks. This allows air flow
under the shed and looks neat.

http://www.internode.ltd.uk/workshop/images/outside.jpg

I know it sounds a bit belt and braces but I need to be able to store
'electrical stuff' in there that would be totally knackered in an
ordinary shed. I have a (limited) power supply laid on and will have a
tubular heater on a stat to stop the place freezing in winter. The cold
isn't such a desperate problem as the combination of damp and cold.

I have a small wall mounted fan heater which is left permanently
switched on at its 800W setting. It is connected via normal room stat
set to about 6 degrees. That seems more then enough to give frost and
damp protection without it needing to fire up that often.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Dudley wrote:
I was intending to use standard clear plastic dpm - which I will
probably have left over from casting the concrete slab.

Stick it on piles - why bother with concrete?


Not sure how to go about insulating the floor yet! It will be 12mm
sterling board or ply on 4x2 'joists'

I should use something more substantial than Sterling board... thick
green Caberfloor would be far better than that.


which sit on the concrete.Its just
possible that I could lay rows of bricks on top of the slab and sit the
joists onto the bricks - to keep the damp out of the joists.

Sit them on pieces of DPC on the bricks.


I had
thought about nailing a board - Something like a couple of strips of
feather edge to close the open ends between the joists. Close enough to
the ground to keep the mice out but would still allow some limited
movement of air.

I wouldn't rate your chances of success as more than a microsquidgeon
above 0!


I hope to give the underside of the shed a coat of
bitumastic to help keep the damp out.

I shouldn't bother, it might even be counter-productive. If the shed
bottom is a foot or so above ground, it will be fine.


I have plans on how to deal with the windows (double glazing which I
just happen to have and thick curtains) and the door (an insualted lobby
with an outer door built onto the side of the shed, both doors
draftproofed).

*A SHED WITH CURTAINS*???

Good point about the draft-proofing, you wouldn't want a bunch of
conscripts suddenly marching through with their muddy boots on..


I know it sounds a bit belt and braces but I need to be able to store
'electrical stuff' in there that would be totally knackered in an
ordinary shed. I have a (limited) power supply laid on and will have a
tubular heater on a stat to stop the place freezing in winter. The cold
isn't such a desperate problem as the combination of damp and cold.

It will also have the added bonus of being warm enough to sleep in when
the wife locks me out )

All wisdom (on the insulation, not the wife) gratefully received!

Cut up Jablite and put it between your timbers. Put plastic DPM all
over the inside, and fill with Sealofoam where necessary. Make sure
detailing of your T&G is OK. What are you doing about the roof? Felt?
Corrugated iron? Onduline (ptah!)?

I intend to insulate it with either Crown Wool or Dry Therm - I can
easily build up the sheds battening to accomodate a decent thickness of
either. My inclination at the moment is to go with 75mm dry therm cut
to fit. The inner skin would be 4mm hardboard nailed over the insulation

Celotex or Kingspan rigid boards are the best. They'll get much more
insulation into a limited space. Indeed, it will probably save you the
battening as you can insulate just between the panels.

I got mine from http://www.secondsandco.co.uk. I plasterboarded over and
painted. Much more civilised than the average shed interior. It keeps the
spiders away too.

Christian.

I really dont want to go down the plasterboard route - its a real pain
to get rid of the leftovers around here now that its classified as
hazardous waste ( Also Powys would be a fair way to go to collect or
to have insulation delivered from - I am in Cambridgeshire.

I have decided to do the roof with 12mm sterling and roofing felt. I'll
be putting a few extra strengthening gussets into the inside of the
pitch. The roof insualtion will be 50mm polystyrene covered with hardboard.

On reflection 12mm sterling may be a bit twangy for the floor and I
could spare an inch or two of height to put down some battens over the
joists, put in some 25mm polystyrene board and then kitchen grade
chipboard floor over the top - ought to stiffen things up!

I have some weld mesh I can put over the open ends of the floor
joists/brick supports that ought to take the average mouse a while to
get through! The feather edge can go over that as a 'decorative cover'.

The foil covered polystyrene insulation would be the easiest but also
the most expensive solution and as this is all being done on a very
tight budget - I think the thermal batts will be used, unless I come
across a whole load of very cheap rockwool in the free ads or freecycle.

Cheapness is the reason for using hardboard as a liner. I can live with
having to pick up studs to get shelf fixings etc, although varnished ply
would be much more aesthetically pleasing!

Looks like best place for the moisture barrier is between the sheds
outer skin and the insulation.

Thanks for the suggestions one and all.


regards



Dudley

I really dont want to go down the plasterboard route - its a real pain
to get rid of the leftovers around here now that its classified as
hazardous waste (

That's the first I've heard of it. At my local tip, you don't even have to
queue, as it counts as hardcore which has a separate entrance.

Also Powys would be a fair way to go to collect or
to have insulation delivered from - I am in Cambridgeshire.

They are effectively a national company.

The roof insualtion will be 50mm polystyrene covered with hardboard.

It depends on how much insulation you need. Celotex/Kingspan is similar to
polystyrene in terms of ease of use, but has better insulation qualities for
the same thickness. Definitely get a quote though. You may find it not much
more than the polystyrene you are considering.

On reflection 12mm sterling may be a bit twangy for the floor and I
could spare an inch or two of height to put down some battens over the
joists, put in some 25mm polystyrene board and then kitchen grade
chipboard floor over the top - ought to stiffen things up!

Floor insulation isn't anywhere near as important as ceiling or wall, so I
didn't bother.

Looks like best place for the moisture barrier is between the sheds
outer skin and the insulation.

I didn't bother with this either.

One thing I did do was paint the shed with proper exterior acrylic. It may
look a little like a beach hut, but I find it much more aesthetically
pleasing than the normal shed stains. It also protects better.

Christian.

Didn't see earlier posts ... but why not use Foil faced PU ....... Seconds
& Co will sell you sheets with dinged surface / corners much cheaper than
new, and delivery anywhere in UK.


"Dudley" wrote in message
...



I really dont want to go down the plasterboard route - its a real pain to
get rid of the leftovers around here now that its classified as hazardous
waste ( Also Powys would be a fair way to go to collect or to have
insulation delivered from - I am in Cambridgeshire.

I have decided to do the roof with 12mm sterling and roofing felt. I'll
be putting a few extra strengthening gussets into the inside of the pitch.
The roof insualtion will be 50mm polystyrene covered with hardboard.

On reflection 12mm sterling may be a bit twangy for the floor and I could
spare an inch or two of height to put down some battens over the joists,
put in some 25mm polystyrene board and then kitchen grade chipboard floor
over the top - ought to stiffen things up!

I have some weld mesh I can put over the open ends of the floor
joists/brick supports that ought to take the average mouse a while to get
through! The feather edge can go over that as a 'decorative cover'.

The foil covered polystyrene insulation would be the easiest but also the
most expensive solution and as this is all being done on a very tight
budget - I think the thermal batts will be used, unless I come across a
whole load of very cheap rockwool in the free ads or freecycle.

Cheapness is the reason for using hardboard as a liner. I can live with
having to pick up studs to get shelf fixings etc, although varnished ply
would be much more aesthetically pleasing!

Looks like best place for the moisture barrier is between the sheds outer
skin and the insulation.

Thanks for the suggestions one and all.


regards



Dudley

Christian McArdle wrote:
I really dont want to go down the plasterboard route - its a real pain
to get rid of the leftovers around here now that its classified as
hazardous waste (


That's the first I've heard of it. At my local tip, you don't even have to
queue, as it counts as hardcore which has a separate entrance.



You may not have any restrictions at present but they will come. Some
sites will have a special container for plaster based products and some
will not take it at all.

I rang my local authority and they confirmed the changes. It seems that
when plaster board gets wet and breaks down it releases ??



regards



Dudley

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 09:44:09 +0000, Dudley
wrote:

Christian McArdle wrote:
I really dont want to go down the plasterboard route - its a real pain
to get rid of the leftovers around here now that its classified as
hazardous waste (

That's the first I've heard of it. At my local tip, you don't even have to
queue, as it counts as hardcore which has a separate entrance.

You may not have any restrictions at present but they will come. Some
sites will have a special container for plaster based products and some
will not take it at all.

I rang my local authority and they confirmed the changes. It seems that
when plaster board gets wet and breaks down it releases ??

Exactly the same "toxic products" as it would in a house if it ever
got wet. The council have their knickers in a twist - either that or
everyone who ever got a plastered wall wet is about to die a horrible
death.

Just send it round to Two Jags as a Christmas present.


--

Dudley Wrote:
Hi All


I know this has been debated in the past but I am damned if I can
remember the final verdict (if there ever was one!)

I have a 10 foot by 8 foot tongue and groove shed which I am siting on
a
concrete slab.

I intend to insulate it with either Crown Wool or Dry Therm - I can
easily build up the sheds battening to accomodate a decent thickness
of
either. My inclination at the moment is to go with 75mm dry therm cut
to fit. The inner skin would be 4mm hardboard nailed over the
insulation

Question is ......... do I need a moisture barrier? I suspect I do,
and
should it go between the insulation and the outer skin of the shed or
between the insulation and the inner skin. I would think it should be
the former.

I was intending to use standard clear plastic dpm - which I will
probably have left over from casting the concrete slab.

Not sure how to go about insulating the floor yet! It will be 12mm
sterling board or ply on 4x2 'joists' which sit on the concrete.Its
just
possible that I could lay rows of bricks on top of the slab and sit
the
joists onto the bricks - to keep the damp out of the joists. I had
thought about nailing a board - Something like a couple of strips of
feather edge to close the open ends between the joists. Close enough
to
the ground to keep the mice out but would still allow some limited
movement of air. I hope to give the underside of the shed a coat of
bitumastic to help keep the damp out.

I have plans on how to deal with the windows (double glazing which I
just happen to have and thick curtains) and the door (an insualted
lobby
with an outer door built onto the side of the shed, both doors
draftproofed).

I know it sounds a bit belt and braces but I need to be able to store
'electrical stuff' in there that would be totally knackered in an
ordinary shed. I have a (limited) power supply laid on and will have
a
tubular heater on a stat to stop the place freezing in winter. The
cold
isn't such a desperate problem as the combination of damp and cold.

It will also have the added bonus of being warm enough to sleep in
when
the wife locks me out )

All wisdom (on the insulation, not the wife) gratefully received!


regards




Dudley

I wouldnt put in a moisture barrier, its likely to trap moisture as
much as stop it, the timber can breathe so leave it.
Celotex/Kingspan is a lot easier to use than Jablite, it cuts much more
accurately and leaves a lot less mess. If you start cutting jablite you
wont believe how much "snow" you get.
You could always float a ply floor on top of sheets of Celotex/Jablite
and do away with joists altogether, if your sub floor is nice and flat a
floating floor would be solid.


--
Nick H

John Rumm wrote:
Dudley wrote:

I intend to insulate it with either Crown Wool or Dry Therm - I can
easily build up the sheds battening to accomodate a decent thickness of
either. My inclination at the moment is to go with 75mm dry therm cut to fit.

Some form of rigid insulation is the simplest to install. I used 50mm
jablite on mine. Foil covered PIR foam would have been better still but
I could not find it at a sensible price at the time. I did not bother
with a vapour barrier myself.

Mine has 70mm jablite on the walls covered with 12mm OSB. However, i've
just found a source of plywood that was only a few quid more per sheet,
so i'll be choosing this in preference for the rest of the walls when I
get around to it ...

The inner skin would be 4mm hardboard nailed over the insulation

You might want to consider something a bit more substantial like 12mm
ply since that will allow direct fixing of shelves and hooks etc without
needing to find a stud all the time.

Hardboard will bow badly, I used 6mm ply as a maximum over the ceiling
insulation, to cut down on weight the rafters are supporting. I also
used Celotex up there, as it's more critical to have better insulation
above. It also cuts down overall cost as they're about 2.5 X the cost
of Jablite ...

Question is ......... do I need a moisture barrier? I suspect I do, and
should it go between the insulation and the outer skin of the shed or
between the insulation and the inner skin. I would think it should be
the former.

If I were using one, then I would put it under the exterior cladding.

My DPM is between the outside wall and the insulation.

Treat all the wood that will be inaccessible with several coats of wood preserver.

Definitely do this.

I did this on all battens and boards, inside and out and used pressure
treated wood over a DPC for the batten that was on the floor.

Cheers

Paul.