Hi there

Does anyone know if I can transfer diesel using a standard central
heating pump? Thanks J

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi there

Does anyone know if I can transfer diesel using a standard central
heating pump? Thanks J


I have used a drill pump to transfer diesel for a couple of years without
ill effect.
I would hazard (pardon the pun) a guess that a central heating pump would be
ok, although
I wouldn't try it with petrol - after all its totally enclosed so no air
would be present and diesel is
a pretty inert liquid until it gets atomised and aerated.
I have a partially seized / nearly new one which I am just about to take
apart, so I will have a good
look and see what's in there....

......Ask Grundfos.... ??

Nick

Thanks for the reply Nick!

Yes, I've seen those drill pumps and thought about it, there are
probably some plastic parts in the CH pump, I guess if I don't run it
at full speed it should be OK.

Thanks again mate

Jon

wrote in message
ps.com...
Thanks for the reply Nick!

Yes, I've seen those drill pumps and thought about it, there are
probably some plastic parts in the CH pump, I guess if I don't run it
at full speed it should be OK.

Thanks again mate

The Grundfos is a plastic impeller and the rest ceramic and stainless steel.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi there

Does anyone know if I can transfer diesel using a standard central
heating pump? Thanks J

I suppose the pump from an oil fired boiler would be ideal. You might be able
to get an old one from a service company.


They generate quite a bit of pressure, so you don't want to block the path.


--

Michael Chare

On 4 Dec 2005 21:49:25 -0800, wrote:

Does anyone know if I can transfer diesel using a standard central
heating pump? Thanks J

I wouldn't the water is used as a bearing lubricant and surrounds the
motor. For £105 (Machine Mart, other places might be cheaper) you can
get a proper mains driven (12 and 24v available) transfer pump
complete with hoses and delivery nozzle.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

wrote:

Does anyone know if I can transfer diesel using a standard central
heating pump?

The diesel would probably knacker the bearings eventually, but I've no
idea how long they'd last. The main problem would be that the pump flow
rate and the head developed would be fairly pathetic. The UPS 15-50
could only produce a maximum of 0.5m head (with water), and that at
minimum/0 flow rate, so it won't move the diesel through much height.
It also isn't self-priming so you'd need some cunning arrangement to
syphon liquid into the pump inlet before it would start pumping. The
oil burner pump would deliver very high (dangerous & unnecessarily
high) pressure & small flow rate. An old shower pump might give better
flow/head, but still isn't self-priming.

Unless it's for one-off use, you'd do better to buy a proper diesel
pump, or recycle a 12V fuel pump from a diesel car/lorry/bus. I think
Machine Mart or Screwfix do something intended for this application.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
The Grundfos is a plastic impeller and the rest ceramic and stainless
steel.

Strange. Most I've seen have a cast iron body. Is this the type used on
Zog?

--
*Why is the word abbreviation so long? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Liquorice wrote:

I wouldn't the water is used as a bearing lubricant and surrounds the
motor. For £105 (Machine Mart, other places might be cheaper) you can
get a proper mains driven (12 and 24v available) transfer pump
complete with hoses and delivery nozzle.


I have one of these (12V), and it's been very useful.


--
Grunff

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

The Grundfos is a plastic impeller and the rest ceramic and stainless
steel.

Strange.

He is strange indeed.

** snip senile babble **

In article , Michael Chare wrote:
I suppose the pump from an oil fired boiler would be ideal. You might
be able to get an old one from a service company.

Surely this would be low volume, high pressure and the OP wants the
opposite?

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.10 released 4 April 2005]

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 05:58:18 -0800, Aidan wrote:


wrote:

Does anyone know if I can transfer diesel using a standard central
heating pump?

The diesel would probably knacker the bearings eventually, but I've no
idea how long they'd last. The main problem would be that the pump flow
rate and the head developed would be fairly pathetic. The UPS 15-50
could only produce a maximum of 0.5m head (with water), and that at
minimum/0 flow rate, so it won't move the diesel through much height.
It also isn't self-priming so you'd need some cunning arrangement to
syphon liquid into the pump inlet before it would start pumping. The
oil burner pump would deliver very high (dangerous & unnecessarily
high) pressure & small flow rate. An old shower pump might give better
flow/head, but still isn't self-priming.

Unless it's for one-off use, you'd do better to buy a proper diesel
pump, or recycle a 12V fuel pump from a diesel car/lorry/bus. I think
Machine Mart or Screwfix do something intended for this application.

The pump delivers 5m head with water so you should get 4m head with oil.
If the ceramic bearings are lubricated by water then diesel should be OK.

I would make sure you use fibre washers rather than rubber on the pump
flanges. The diesel will probably leak very easily. I've not tried this as
I have no need to do anything other than fill my van at the filling
station. If I had to though I'd reckon it working fairly well if the rise
was only a couple of metres.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 05:58:18 -0800, Aidan wrote:


wrote:

Does anyone know if I can transfer diesel using a standard central
heating pump?

The diesel would probably knacker the bearings eventually, but I've no
idea how long they'd last. The main problem would be that the pump flow
rate and the head developed would be fairly pathetic. The UPS 15-50
could only produce a maximum of 0.5m head (with water), and that at
minimum/0 flow rate, so it won't move the diesel through much height.
It also isn't self-priming so you'd need some cunning arrangement to
syphon liquid into the pump inlet before it would start pumping. The
oil burner pump would deliver very high (dangerous & unnecessarily
high) pressure & small flow rate. An old shower pump might give better
flow/head, but still isn't self-priming.

Unless it's for one-off use, you'd do better to buy a proper diesel
pump, or recycle a 12V fuel pump from a diesel car/lorry/bus. I think
Machine Mart or Screwfix do something intended for this application.

The pump delivers 5m head with water so you should get 4m head with oil.
If the ceramic bearings are lubricated by water then diesel should be OK.

Diesel maybe too thick for it.

I would make sure you use fibre washers rather than rubber on the pump
flanges. The diesel will probably leak very easily. I've not tried this as
I have no need to do anything other than fill my van at the filling
station.

One of the heating fitters I know has a Hyundai van, and swears by it. The
Speedo started to play up and it was running a bit rough. By mistake he put
BP Ultimate diesel in it. The performance and smoothness improved
enormously and the Speedo then worked OK. The speedo is taken off the fuel
pump. The Ultimate cleaned all the fuel system inside and out and the
sensors too. He said was like having the thing serviced. He only ever uses
Ultimate now. He used to put Esso diesel in it. Worth trying.

In message om, Aidan
writes

wrote:

Does anyone know if I can transfer diesel using a standard central
heating pump?

The diesel would probably knacker the bearings eventually,

The bearing is water lubricated, I don't know how well diesel would
perform, liquid is liquid

but I've no
idea how long they'd last. The main problem would be that the pump flow
rate and the head developed would be fairly pathetic. The UPS 15-50
could only produce a maximum of 0.5m head (with water),

5 metres (static) surely

and that at
minimum/0 flow rate, so it won't move the diesel through much height.
It also isn't self-priming so you'd need some cunning arrangement to
syphon liquid into the pump inlet before it would start pumping. The
oil burner pump would deliver very high (dangerous & unnecessarily
high) pressure & small flow rate. An old shower pump might give better
flow/head, but still isn't self-priming.

Unless it's for one-off use, you'd do better to buy a proper diesel
pump, or recycle a 12V fuel pump from a diesel car/lorry/bus. I think
Machine Mart or Screwfix do something intended for this application.


--
geoff

On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 21:56:18 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

One of the heating fitters I know has a Hyundai van, and swears by it. The
Speedo started to play up and it was running a bit rough. By mistake he put
BP Ultimate diesel in it. The performance and smoothness improved
enormously and the Speedo then worked OK. The speedo is taken off the fuel
pump.

Didn't you realise he was winding you up?


--

"Matt" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 21:56:18 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

One of the heating fitters I know has a Hyundai van, and swears by it.
The
Speedo started to play up and it was running a bit rough. By mistake he
put
BP Ultimate diesel in it. The performance and smoothness improved
enormously and the Speedo then worked OK. The speedo is taken off the
fuel
pump.

Didn't you realise he was winding you up?

The Fitter? No wind up. I have known him for many years.

On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 22:21:36 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Matt" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 21:56:18 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

One of the heating fitters I know has a Hyundai van, and swears by it.
The
Speedo started to play up and it was running a bit rough. By mistake he
put
BP Ultimate diesel in it. The performance and smoothness improved
enormously and the Speedo then worked OK. The speedo is taken off the
fuel
pump.

Didn't you realise he was winding you up?

The Fitter? No wind up. I have known him for many years.

So what? To lubricate a speedo only very light machine oil should be
used. Diesel is far too heavy.


--

"Matt" aka Lord Hall wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 22:21:36 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Matt" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 21:56:18 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

One of the heating fitters I know has a Hyundai van, and swears by it.
The
Speedo started to play up and it was running a bit rough. By mistake
he
put
BP Ultimate diesel in it. The performance and smoothness improved
enormously and the Speedo then worked OK. The speedo is taken off the
fuel
pump.

Didn't you realise he was winding you up?

The Fitter? No wind up. I have known him for many years.

So what? To lubricate a speedo only very light machine oil should be
used. Diesel is far too heavy.

Lord Hall, read it again. The speedo drive is taken off the fuel pump
drive, or senses the speed from there. Could be electronic. The fuel
cleaned the fuel lines and any sensors in the lines.

raden wrote:

but I've no
idea how long they'd last. The main problem would be that the pump flow
rate and the head developed would be fairly pathetic. The UPS 15-50
could only produce a maximum of 0.5m head (with water),

5 metres (static) surely

Yes, bugger.

Write out 100 times, 50 dm does not equal 0.5m.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
One of the heating fitters I know has a Hyundai van, and swears by it.
The Speedo started to play up and it was running a bit rough. By
mistake he put BP Ultimate diesel in it. The performance and smoothness
improved enormously and the Speedo then worked OK. The speedo is taken
off the fuel pump.

You don't half talk some ****e. A speedometer has to be driven off
something related to road speed, strangely. Like the output of the
gearbox, etc.

--
*Honk if you love peace and quiet.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Lord Hall, read it again. The speedo drive is taken off the fuel pump
drive, or senses the speed from there. Could be electronic.

To start the engine the fuel pump must run. So the speedometer reads while
you're standing still?

What a pillock you are dribble.

Might be the rev counter, I suppose. Although these are usually fed from
the alternator on diesels.

--
*Oh, what a tangled website we weave when first we practice *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Lord Hall, read it again. The speedo drive
is taken off the fuel pump
drive, or senses the speed from there.
Could be electronic.

To start the engine the fuel pump must run.
So the speedometer reads while
you're standing still?

Richard Cranium, do you know this engine inside and out?

** snip idiotic senility **

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

One of the heating fitters I know has a Hyundai van, and swears by it.
The Speedo started to play up and it was running a bit rough. By
mistake he put BP Ultimate diesel in it. The performance and smoothness
improved enormously and the Speedo then worked OK. The speedo is taken
off the fuel pump.

You don't

** snip overt idiotic senility **

Care in the community has clearly failed.

The message ews.net
from "Doctor Drivel" contains these words:

Lord Hall, read it again. The speedo drive
is taken off the fuel pump
drive, or senses the speed from there.
Could be electronic.

To start the engine the fuel pump must run.
So the speedometer reads while
you're standing still?

Richard Cranium, do you know this engine inside and out?

** snip idiotic senility **

You can say one thing about Dribble. However absurd his views are he
will stick to them like **** to a shovel.

Most of us don't need to know anything at all about that particular
engine to realise that the closest any output from the fuel pump can
come to indicating road speed is to feed a rev counter. Some of us may
even be able to tell our road speed from the reading on a rev counter
but that requires in addition to a knowledge of final drive ratios the
certainty that the clutch is not slipping. While the fiendishly clever
Nipponese might be able to devise such a box of tricks they are also
clever enough to understand you don't spend many times the cost of the
standard solution to provide an inferior alternative.

--
Roger Chapman

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Lord Hall, read it again. The speedo drive
is taken off the fuel pump
drive, or senses the speed from there.
Could be electronic.

To start the engine the fuel pump must run.
So the speedometer reads while
you're standing still?

Richard Cranium, do you know this engine inside and out?

Don't need to - unlike you I understand the principles these things work
on. Fuel pumps these days on most engines are designed to give a near
constant pressure to the fuel rail. Which bears no relation to the road
speed. And even in an old design where the pump supplied to demand the
road speed had little bearing on this. Maximum demand might well have been
climbing a steep hill at 20mph...

** snip idiotic senility **

Perhaps one day you'd just admit when you're wrong, **** for brains. Fat
chance.

--
*What was the best thing before sliced bread?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Roger" wrote overt Rogerness in message
k...
The message ews.net
from "Doctor Drivel" contains these words:

Lord Hall, read it again. The speedo drive
is taken off the fuel pump
drive, or senses the speed from there.
Could be electronic.

To start the engine the fuel pump must run.
So the speedometer reads while
you're standing still?

Richard Cranium, do you know this engine inside and out?

** snip idiotic senility **

** snip Rogerness **

Most of us don't need to know anything at all about that particular
engine to realise that the closest any output from the fuel pump can
come to indicating road speed is to feed a rev counter.

It may be that Roger. I know was a round thing on the dash that didn't work,
but now it does because he used Ultimate fuel, which is the prime point.
Your Rogerness is getting to you Roger, you must see the prime point.

** snip babbling Rogerness **

In article ,
Roger wrote:
To start the engine the fuel pump must run.
So the speedometer reads while
you're standing still?

Richard Cranium, do you know this engine inside and out?

** snip idiotic senility **

You can say one thing about Dribble. However absurd his views are he
will stick to them like **** to a shovel

It's the complete lack of basic knowledge that shows all the time. If he
can't quote a website or advert he's lost. And in the past claimed to have
some form of engineering degree.

A child of 5 who's played with a Meccano set could tell you you won't get
road speed off any fuel pump for an IC engine.

--
*Happiness is seeing your mother-in-law on a milk carton

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Most of us don't need to know anything at all about that particular
engine to realise that the closest any output from the fuel pump can
come to indicating road speed is to feed a rev counter.

It may be that Roger. I know was a round thing on the dash that didn't
work,

Very technical description. Could be the cigarette lighter?

but now it does because he used Ultimate fuel, which is the prime point.

No, the prime point is that you wrote rubbish and didn't realise it. And
as usual refuse to admit your crass stupidity.

Your Rogerness is getting to you Roger, you must see the prime point.

Going on to your advert for Ultimate, perhaps you'd explain how a device
which measures rotation against time could work/not work by the fuel going
through a pump? Because either the pump works or it doesn't.

Older OBCs used a flow sensor in the fuel line to determine fuel
consumption. This could possibly get blocked with crud. Dunno if this was
ever used with diesels, though.

--
*There are two sides to every divorce: Yours and **** head's*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 10:56:22 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Older OBCs used a flow sensor in the fuel line to determine fuel
consumption. This could possibly get blocked with crud. Dunno if this was
ever used with diesels, though.

Never, AFAIK. Too many diesels (even years ago) recirculated fuel back
to the tank. Obviously this makes fuel volume measuring awkward with a
simple flow sensor in the pipe.

Injected petrol engines control fuel flow by varying the injector timing
- just when it's open. Diesels with mechanical injectors did it instead
by opening a spill port. The injection pumps run at a constant volume no
matter what the load, but the excess when running light is spilled into
an overflow, rather than being sent to the injectors. Recirculating this
spillage round the pump itself would soon churn the fuel into a froth
and over-heat it, so instead it's sent back to the main tank. If you
have a cold-climate diesel there's usually a small header tank (where
the dewaxing heater is) and the spillage pipe only goes that far back.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

Care in the community has clearly failed.

Aye. So it would seem...

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
Older OBCs used a flow sensor in the fuel line to determine fuel
consumption. This could possibly get blocked with crud. Dunno if this
was ever used with diesels, though.

Never, AFAIK. Too many diesels (even years ago) recirculated fuel back
to the tank. Obviously this makes fuel volume measuring awkward with a
simple flow sensor in the pipe.

Yes - I suspected this. And many petrol engines have done the same for
many a year - even before injection became the norm, as it helps prevent
fuel evaporation. My '69 Rover P6 did. However, it was possible to use a
flow counter into the carbs. The SDI carb cars did this for the OBC. Later
injection ones measure injection opening.

Injected petrol engines control fuel flow by varying the injector timing
- just when it's open. Diesels with mechanical injectors did it instead
by opening a spill port. The injection pumps run at a constant volume no
matter what the load, but the excess when running light is spilled into
an overflow, rather than being sent to the injectors. Recirculating this
spillage round the pump itself would soon churn the fuel into a froth
and over-heat it, so instead it's sent back to the main tank. If you
have a cold-climate diesel there's usually a small header tank (where
the dewaxing heater is) and the spillage pipe only goes that far back.

Yup - as I'd guessed, but I'm no expert on diesels. But it certainly gives
the lie to dribbles idea that it drives the speedo. Or revcounter, come to
that. They're usually driven off an AC output from the alternator.

--
*Verbs HAS to agree with their subjects *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 22:46:23 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Matt" aka Lord Hall wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 22:21:36 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Matt" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 21:56:18 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

One of the heating fitters I know has a Hyundai van, and swears by it.
The
Speedo started to play up and it was running a bit rough. By mistake
he
put
BP Ultimate diesel in it. The performance and smoothness improved
enormously and the Speedo then worked OK. The speedo is taken off the
fuel
pump.

Didn't you realise he was winding you up?

The Fitter? No wind up. I have known him for many years.

So what? To lubricate a speedo only very light machine oil should be
used. Diesel is far too heavy.

Lord Hall, read it again. The speedo drive is taken off the fuel pump
drive, or senses the speed from there. Could be electronic.

I'm not Lord Hall

That's a bit magic that is. Does it just guess the gear ratio then or
does it not have a gearbox? Maybe it's like the Prius and has a CVT
Gearbox like what you said.

The fuel
cleaned the fuel lines and any sensors in the lines.

Now that bit I can believe.

Are you really, really sure he didn't squirt some diesel onto the
speedo head?

:-)

If you didn't exist no amount of computers, no matter how badly
programmed by Microsoft could ever come up with such utter Dribble.


--

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
writes

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
Older OBCs used a flow sensor in the fuel line to determine fuel
consumption. This could possibly get blocked with crud. Dunno if this
was ever used with diesels, though.

Never, AFAIK. Too many diesels (even years ago) recirculated fuel back
to the tank. Obviously this makes fuel volume measuring awkward with a
simple flow sensor in the pipe.

Yes - I suspected this.

All "traditional" diesels with the classic mechanical injector pump will
have a flow and return fuel line.

And many petrol engines have done the same for
many a year - even before injection became the norm,

I seem to remember having this on my 2 Nova's

as it helps prevent fuel evaporation.

I suspect it makes the carb design better/cheaper as a float and valve
is not required, and the design of the fuel pump as well as the fuel
pump is not required to stop pumping when the carb float shuts its
valve.
--
Mr X

On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:21:47 +0000, Matt
wrote:

Does it just guess the gear ratio then

My Dad's 1932 MG has a huge rev counter and no speedo. The rev counter
is calibrated as a speedo for 3rd and 4th gear.

In article ,
Mr X wrote:
And many petrol engines have done the same for
many a year - even before injection became the norm,

I seem to remember having this on my 2 Nova's

as it helps prevent fuel evaporation.

I suspect it makes the carb design better/cheaper as a float and valve
is not required,

All the ones I've seen still had a float and valve.

and the design of the fuel pump as well as the fuel
pump is not required to stop pumping when the carb float shuts its
valve.

Older single pipe designs will have had some form of pressure limiting
device in the pump. SU electric simply stopped pumping. ;-)

--
*If they arrest the Energizer Bunny, would they charge it with battery? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The message
from "Dave Plowman (News)" contains these words:

Yup - as I'd guessed, but I'm no expert on diesels. But it certainly gives
the lie to dribbles idea that it drives the speedo. Or revcounter, come to
that. They're usually driven off an AC output from the alternator.

If I understood what the service engineer said my neighbours tractor (a
Zetor) which only has a rev counter (and a hour meter rather than an
odometer) has a pulse counter somewhere on the fuel line to drive the
rev counter.

--
Roger Chapman

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:15:04 GMT, Roger
wrote:

If I understood what the service engineer said my neighbours tractor (a
Zetor) which only has a rev counter (and a hour meter rather than an
odometer) has a pulse counter somewhere on the fuel line to drive the
rev counter.

I doubt this. (Somewhere) I have a pile of fuel line pressure sensors
for diesels, all broken. They weren't cheap, and they're just about the
least reliable sensor I've ever used. Even for a job with a decent
budget we could buy these things easily enough (several makers) but none
were reliable in service, let alone long-term.

If you want to measure revs, just count the shaft turning, that's dead
easy.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

The speedo drive is taken off the fuel pump
drive, or senses the speed from there.

ROFL!!

So your 'speed' is actually your fuel consumption. That means you go
faster uphill than you do downhill.


--
Grunff

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:15:04 GMT, Roger
wrote:

The message
from "Dave Plowman (News)" contains these words:

Yup - as I'd guessed, but I'm no expert on diesels. But it certainly gives
the lie to dribbles idea that it drives the speedo. Or revcounter, come to
that. They're usually driven off an AC output from the alternator.

If I understood what the service engineer said my neighbours tractor (a
Zetor) which only has a rev counter (and a hour meter rather than an
odometer) has a pulse counter somewhere on the fuel line to drive the
rev counter.

Quite common. Something similar is commonly used during diesel
servicing for setting the pump timing. You can get a sensor that
clips round the injector piping and this then provides a trigger
signal for conventional timing lights.


--

On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:08:46 +0000, Grunff wrote:

Doctor Drivel wrote:

The speedo drive is taken off the fuel pump
drive, or senses the speed from there.

ROFL!!

So your 'speed' is actually your fuel consumption. That means you go
faster uphill than you do downhill.

In the land of Zog anything is possible.

--