About to instal broadband. The BT terminal is at the top of the house
in an attic, whilst the wireless router will be on the ground floor.
It is planned to supplement the wireless channel with direct CAt5
cabling to some rooms.

There will be a master filter just after the BT terminal & the existing
telephones will branch out from there.

The plan is run the unfiltered (ADSL) telephone (AB) line downstairs to
the router using CAT5 cable.


Q1 Assuming that is OK, which are the correct colours to use in the
CAT5 cable?


Q2 Is it correct that each RJ45 socketed ethernet channel on the router
only require 3 wires ? If so, can the unused 6 wires in the CAT5 cable
be used to feed a RJ45 socket to the router? - if so, which cable
colours carry the signals?


ie like this:

master
BT master ----ADSL filter --unfiltered signal-[CAT5
cable]-------------------RJ11 -------router
I
socket
I
I------filtered telephone lines[existing
telephone cabling]




RJ45 ------[CAT5 cable}--------------- RJ45
--[patch lead]---- router
wall socket wall socket



As this apparently leaves spare wires, would it be possible to feed
the filtered telephone line down this same piece of CAT5?


also any comments on practicality most welcome

TIA

On 29 Nov 2005 12:41:37 -0800, "jim_in_sussex"
wrote:

About to instal broadband. The BT terminal is at the top of the house
in an attic, whilst the wireless router will be on the ground floor.
It is planned to supplement the wireless channel with direct CAt5
cabling to some rooms.

There will be a master filter just after the BT terminal & the existing
telephones will branch out from there.

The plan is run the unfiltered (ADSL) telephone (AB) line downstairs to
the router using CAT5 cable.


Q1 Assuming that is OK, which are the correct colours to use in the
CAT5 cable?


The first pair used is normally the blue.

Peter Parry's site has more details

http://www.wppltd.demon.co.uk/WPP/Wi...telephone.html




Q2 Is it correct that each RJ45 socketed ethernet channel on the router
only require 3 wires ? If so, can the unused 6 wires in the CAT5 cable
be used to feed a RJ45 socket to the router? - if so, which cable
colours carry the signals?

Ethernet requires 4 wires, so this would leave two pairs unused.

You might get away with what you are suggesting, but it is bad
practice to mix services in one cable. It might not cause a problem
at 10Mbits, but if the link is set or negotiates to 100Mbit, then
there is a fair chance that the ethernet will run unreliably.

It is best to use one cable for each service and to keep them
separate. Run more cables if needed - the cable is very cheap.



ie like this:

master
BT master ----ADSL filter --unfiltered signal-[CAT5
cable]-------------------RJ11 -------router
I
socket
I
I------filtered telephone lines[existing
telephone cabling]




RJ45 ------[CAT5 cable}--------------- RJ45
--[patch lead]---- router
wall socket wall socket



As this apparently leaves spare wires, would it be possible to feed
the filtered telephone line down this same piece of CAT5?


also any comments on practicality most welcome

TIA

--

..andy

Andy Hall wrote:
On 29 Nov 2005 12:41:37 -0800, "jim_in_sussex"
wrote:

About to instal broadband.

Q1 Assuming that is OK, which are the correct colours to use in the
CAT5 cable?


The first pair used is normally the blue.

TFT

.....
Q2 Is it correct that each RJ45 socketed ethernet channel on the router
only require 3 wires ? If so, can the unused 6 wires in the CAT5 cable
be used to feed a RJ45 socket to the router? - if so, which cable
colours carry the signals?

Ethernet requires 4 wires, so this would leave two pairs unused.

You might get away with what you are suggesting, but it is bad
practice to mix services in one cable. It might not cause a problem
at 10Mbits, but if the link is set or negotiates to 100Mbit, then
there is a fair chance that the ethernet will run unreliably.

Understood - but it's going into my parents home & is only being
installed for convenience when visiting, not posterity. However given
what you say, What is the best choice of cable?

requirements a

A) to take the unfiltered AB signal downstairs (about 25m) (all speech
telephone cables being filtered off at the entry point) - essential

B) Take a new speech telephone cable to near the router from the filter
point. - useful only

C). Bring back part way (to 1st floor) a CAT5 cable to carry ethernet
to/from the router. - high up in the wants.


For A) is CAT5 really needed? Won't ordinary telephone cable do?
After all the signal travels unfiltered 3/4mile or more from the
exchange on normal BT cable.

For B) ordinary telephone cable will do, but if that is OK for A) & I
try to use the same (6 way) cable as for A then is there a risk of
cross-talk?

For C) clearly a dedicated CAT5 is what you're recommending - will do

There's something I don't understand here - why is CAT5 the standard
cable when apparently only half the cable is used (4 wires out of 8)?

Also what are the standard pairings on CAT5 for sthe standard PC router
ethernet signals?

++++

Other posters have mentioned the Clarity master filter which is the one
I will be installing on this job. One is already in use in my own home
& it works just fine - my home system cabling splits into separate
speech and ADSL networks at the front door. Highly recommended.

On 30 Nov 2005 02:51:01 -0800 someone who may be "jim_in_sussex"
wrote this:-

A) to take the unfiltered AB signal downstairs (about 25m)

A tall house:-)

(all speech
telephone cables being filtered off at the entry point) - essential

B) Take a new speech telephone cable to near the router from the filter
point. - useful only

For A) is CAT5 really needed? Won't ordinary telephone cable do?

No. Yes.

For B) ordinary telephone cable will do, but if that is OK for A) & I
try to use the same (6 way) cable as for A then is there a risk of
cross-talk?

I suspect not much chance. If you use Category 5 cable it is more
twisted and the chances are, I suspect, even less.

There's something I don't understand here - why is CAT5 the standard
cable when apparently only half the cable is used (4 wires out of 8)?

All eight wires have been used in some networking implementations.

Also what are the standard pairings on CAT5 for sthe standard PC router
ethernet signals?

ISTR that the Clarity site gives all this. If it doesn't there are
search engines. Many data sockets come with colour coded identifiers
for which cable goes where. The main thing is that wiring is
straight through, with pin 1 being connected to pin 1 and so on.

Other posters have mentioned the Clarity master filter which is the one
I will be installing on this job. One is already in use in my own home

Then it probably came with a little leaflet that explains the wiring
colours in some detail.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On 30 Nov 2005 02:51:01 -0800, "jim_in_sussex"
wrote:


Andy Hall wrote:
On 29 Nov 2005 12:41:37 -0800, "jim_in_sussex"
wrote:

About to instal broadband.

Q1 Assuming that is OK, which are the correct colours to use in the
CAT5 cable?


The first pair used is normally the blue.

TFT

....
Q2 Is it correct that each RJ45 socketed ethernet channel on the router
only require 3 wires ? If so, can the unused 6 wires in the CAT5 cable
be used to feed a RJ45 socket to the router? - if so, which cable
colours carry the signals?

Ethernet requires 4 wires, so this would leave two pairs unused.

You might get away with what you are suggesting, but it is bad
practice to mix services in one cable. It might not cause a problem
at 10Mbits, but if the link is set or negotiates to 100Mbit, then
there is a fair chance that the ethernet will run unreliably.

Understood - but it's going into my parents home & is only being
installed for convenience when visiting, not posterity. However given
what you say, What is the best choice of cable?

requirements a

A) to take the unfiltered AB signal downstairs (about 25m) (all speech
telephone cables being filtered off at the entry point) - essential

B) Take a new speech telephone cable to near the router from the filter
point. - useful only

C). Bring back part way (to 1st floor) a CAT5 cable to carry ethernet
to/from the router. - high up in the wants.


For A) is CAT5 really needed?

No it isn't.

Won't ordinary telephone cable do?

Yes, although if you're having to buy a reel, then it may be cheaper
to just get one cable type.


After all the signal travels unfiltered 3/4mile or more from the
exchange on normal BT cable.

For B) ordinary telephone cable will do, but if that is OK for A) & I
try to use the same (6 way) cable as for A then is there a risk of
cross-talk?

It's unpredictable. That's really the issue. You could put it in
and it might work and then not and be intermittent. It's much easier
to thread two or more cables while you're at it than to have to go
back.



For C) clearly a dedicated CAT5 is what you're recommending - will do

There's something I don't understand here - why is CAT5 the standard
cable when apparently only half the cable is used (4 wires out of 8)?

Other pairs are used for other purposes but not at the same time down
one cable.



Also what are the standard pairings on CAT5 for sthe standard PC router
ethernet signals?

There are two standards for the cable wiring

http://www.memex.ca/support/referenc...t%20Wiring.htm

obviously the pin numbers on ethernet remain the same.

Another thought if you don't want the cable hassle is to go for
wireless. There are some good bundle deals on 802.11g and even Pre-N
products.







++++

Other posters have mentioned the Clarity master filter which is the one
I will be installing on this job. One is already in use in my own home
& it works just fine - my home system cabling splits into separate
speech and ADSL networks at the front door. Highly recommended.

--

..andy

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
jim_in_sussex wrote:


requirements a

A) to take the unfiltered AB signal downstairs (about 25m) (all
speech telephone cables being filtered off at the entry point) -
essential

B) Take a new speech telephone cable to near the router from the
filter point. - useful only

C). Bring back part way (to 1st floor) a CAT5 cable to carry ethernet
to/from the router. - high up in the wants.


For A) is CAT5 really needed? Won't ordinary telephone cable do?
After all the signal travels unfiltered 3/4mile or more from the
exchange on normal BT cable.

Ordinary phone cable is fine. If you use 3-pair cable, you can carry voice
and digital in a single cable.

For B) ordinary telephone cable will do, but if that is OK for A) & I
try to use the same (6 way) cable as for A then is there a risk of
cross-talk?

No it will be fine. As far as cable colours go, use the blue pair for voice
(2+5) one of the orange wires for ringer (3) and the green pair for ADSL.

For C) clearly a dedicated CAT5 is what you're recommending - will do

I'm not sure how many computers will have a wired connection to the router -
but you need a separate CAT5 cable for each one - unless you're putting an
additional hub somewhere. It doesn't daisy-chain like thin co-ax ethernet!

There's something I don't understand here - why is CAT5 the standard
cable when apparently only half the cable is used (4 wires out of 8)?

Also what are the standard pairings on CAT5 for sthe standard PC
router ethernet signals?

See http://www.aptcommunications.com/ncode.htm It's best to use RJ45 sockets
with solid CAT5 between them, and short flexible patch leads each end.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

On 30 Nov 2005 02:51:01 -0800,it is alleged that "jim_in_sussex"
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

[snippage]

You might get away with what you are suggesting, but it is bad
practice to mix services in one cable. It might not cause a problem
at 10Mbits, but if the link is set or negotiates to 100Mbit, then
there is a fair chance that the ethernet will run unreliably.

Understood - but it's going into my parents home & is only being
installed for convenience when visiting, not posterity. However given
what you say, What is the best choice of cable?

3 separate cables would be best.


requirements a

A) to take the unfiltered AB signal downstairs (about 25m) (all speech
telephone cables being filtered off at the entry point) - essential

B) Take a new speech telephone cable to near the router from the filter
point. - useful only

C). Bring back part way (to 1st floor) a CAT5 cable to carry ethernet
to/from the router. - high up in the wants.


For A) is CAT5 really needed? Won't ordinary telephone cable do?
After all the signal travels unfiltered 3/4mile or more from the
exchange on normal BT cable.

Ordinary telephone cable would be fine for both DSL and Voice signals
yes. It has the advantage of being slightly smaller than cat5.

For B) ordinary telephone cable will do, but if that is OK for A) & I
try to use the same (6 way) cable as for A then is there a risk of
cross-talk?

If you use all 3 wires required (Including the bell shunt) then yes,
crosstalk will likely become a problem (How much this would affect
ADSL I am not sure). Running the voice line as just A+B (2+5) and
using master sockets at the extension points would likely prevent any
potential problem, at the expense of causing bell tinkle should you
ever use a pulse dialling phone.


For C) clearly a dedicated CAT5 is what you're recommending - will do

There's something I don't understand here - why is CAT5 the standard
cable when apparently only half the cable is used (4 wires out of 8)?

In 100baseTX or 10baseT ethernet -which are the most common- this is
true, some variants of gigabit ethernet can operate across cat5 cable
using all 4 pairs however. It's considered good practise to connect
all 4 pairs, allowing future use with whatever standard is required.


Also what are the standard pairings on CAT5 for sthe standard PC router
ethernet signals?

Assuming the router uses EIA/TIA 568B (which is the most common)

white/orange = Transmit Data +
orange/white = Transmit Data -
white/green = Receive Data +
blue/white = Spare
white/blue = Spare
green/white = Receive Data -
white/brown = Spare
brown/white = Spare

--
Whenever people say "we mustn't be sentimental", you can take it
they are about to do something cruel. And if they add, "we must
be realistic", they mean they are going to make money out of it.
- Brigid Brophy

I
Also what are the standard pairings on CAT5 for sthe standard PC router
ethernet signals?

Assuming the router uses EIA/TIA 568B (which is the most common)

white/orange = Transmit Data +
orange/white = Transmit Data -
white/green = Receive Data +
blue/white = Spare
white/blue = Spare
green/white = Receive Data -
white/brown = Spare
brown/white = Spare

Interesting that. The Brown pair are used sometimes for power over
ethernet are they not?. Tried to put a temporary phone line down a brown
pair this afternoon on a cat5 data cable, but it was shorted out by
something in the netgear router connected on that line?...
--
Tony Sayer

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:57:38 +0000,it is alleged that tony sayer
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

I
Also what are the standard pairings on CAT5 for sthe standard PC router
ethernet signals?

Assuming the router uses EIA/TIA 568B (which is the most common)

white/orange = Transmit Data +
orange/white = Transmit Data -
white/green = Receive Data +
blue/white = Spare
white/blue = Spare
green/white = Receive Data -
white/brown = Spare
brown/white = Spare

Interesting that. The Brown pair are used sometimes for power over
ethernet are they not?. Tried to put a temporary phone line down a brown
pair this afternoon on a cat5 data cable, but it was shorted out by
something in the netgear router connected on that line?...

Hadn't even considered power over ethernet, good catch.

Certainly possible, there seem to be many variations. On the computers
here, one no-name network card shorts the brown and blue pairs, one is
open on all spare lines. With 'power over ethernet' becoming more
common, attempting to use these pairs for anything else is hazardous I
guess. The eTec dsl modem/router thingy in the loft appears not to be
shorting anything.

--
Whenever people say "we mustn't be sentimental", you can take it
they are about to do something cruel. And if they add, "we must
be realistic", they mean they are going to make money out of it.
- Brigid Brophy

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
jim_in_sussex wrote:

About to instal broadband. The BT terminal is at the top of the house
in an attic, whilst the wireless router will be on the ground floor.
It is planned to supplement the wireless channel with direct CAt5
cabling to some rooms.

There will be a master filter just after the BT terminal & the
existing telephones will branch out from there.

The plan is run the unfiltered (ADSL) telephone (AB) line downstairs
to the router using CAT5 cable.


Q1 Assuming that is OK, which are the correct colours to use in the
CAT5 cable?


Q2 Is it correct that each RJ45 socketed ethernet channel on the
router only require 3 wires ? If so, can the unused 6 wires in the
CAT5 cable be used to feed a RJ45 socket to the router? - if so,
which cable colours carry the signals?


ie like this:

master
BT master ----ADSL filter --unfiltered signal-[CAT5
cable]-------------------RJ11 -------router
I
socket
I
I------filtered telephone lines[existing
telephone cabling]




RJ45 ------[CAT5 cable}--------------- RJ45
--[patch lead]---- router
wall socket wall socket



As this apparently leaves spare wires, would it be possible to feed
the filtered telephone line down this same piece of CAT5?


also any comments on practicality most welcome

TIA

Rather than use a plug-in filter, I would use a Clarity modified filtered
faceplate in the master socket, as described at Clarity Modified Master
Faceplate You can then hardwire a digital extension into the back of that,
along with your normal telephone extension wiring. The digital extension
only requires one pair - so you could certainly use another one and a half
pairs in the same CAT5 cable for phone extensions. It's not a good idea to
mix ethernet with anything in the same cable though, so I would use
additional CAT5 cables for that. This will presumably need to be a star
setup, centred on your router, anyway.

[The above Clarity link *should* work - their website seems to be down at
the moment]

--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Set Square wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
jim_in_sussex wrote:

About to instal broadband. The BT terminal is at the top of the
house in an attic, whilst the wireless router will be on the ground
floor. It is planned to supplement the wireless channel with direct
CAt5 cabling to some rooms.

There will be a master filter just after the BT terminal & the
existing telephones will branch out from there.

The plan is run the unfiltered (ADSL) telephone (AB) line downstairs
to the router using CAT5 cable.


Q1 Assuming that is OK, which are the correct colours to use in the
CAT5 cable?


Q2 Is it correct that each RJ45 socketed ethernet channel on the
router only require 3 wires ? If so, can the unused 6 wires in the
CAT5 cable be used to feed a RJ45 socket to the router? - if so,
which cable colours carry the signals?


ie like this:

master
BT master ----ADSL filter --unfiltered signal-[CAT5
cable]-------------------RJ11 -------router
I
socket
I
I------filtered telephone lines[existing
telephone cabling]




RJ45 ------[CAT5 cable}---------------
RJ45
--[patch lead]---- router
wall socket wall socket



As this apparently leaves spare wires, would it be possible to feed
the filtered telephone line down this same piece of CAT5?


also any comments on practicality most welcome

TIA

Rather than use a plug-in filter, I would use a Clarity modified
filtered faceplate in the master socket, as described at Clarity
Modified Master Faceplate You can then hardwire a digital extension
into the back of that, along with your normal telephone extension
wiring. The digital extension only requires one pair - so you could
certainly use another one and a half pairs in the same CAT5 cable for
phone extensions. It's not a good idea to mix ethernet with anything
in the same cable though, so I would use additional CAT5 cables for
that. This will presumably need to be a star setup, centred on your
router, anyway.

[The above Clarity link *should* work - their website seems to be
down at the moment]

Well, it *looked* like a link in the previous message before I submitted it!
It should have been http://www.clarity.it/telecoms/adsl_faceplate_mod.htm

--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:20:28 -0000 someone who may be "Set Square"
wrote this:-

Well, it *looked* like a link in the previous message before I submitted it!
It should have been http://www.clarity.it/telecoms/adsl_faceplate_mod.htm

The site has a number of useful diagrams on how to wire things. It
also rightly says in places that if you don't understand the diagram
then consider getting someone else to do it.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

SNIP
Rather than use a plug-in filter, I would use a Clarity modified filtered
faceplate in the master socket, as described at Clarity Modified Master
Faceplate You can then hardwire a digital extension into the back of
that,
along with your normal telephone extension wiring.
http://www.clarity.it/telecoms/adsl_faceplate_mod.htm


I saw this a while ago and thought it was a good idea. I had a normal BT
supplied ADSL faceplate and I got thinking about if it was possible to
modify it. Turned out really easy, I popped the blastic back off then
soldered a PCB terminal block thing in place. The holes and connections were
already there so it was an easy job. Then I had to make a cutout in the
plastic.

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:17:59 -0000, "Paul \( Skiing8 \)"
wrote:

SNIP
Rather than use a plug-in filter, I would use a Clarity modified filtered
faceplate in the master socket, as described at Clarity Modified Master
Faceplate You can then hardwire a digital extension into the back of
that,
along with your normal telephone extension wiring.
http://www.clarity.it/telecoms/adsl_faceplate_mod.htm


I saw this a while ago and thought it was a good idea. I had a normal BT
supplied ADSL faceplate and I got thinking about if it was possible to
modify it. Turned out really easy, I popped the blastic back off then
soldered a PCB terminal block thing in place. The holes and connections were
already there so it was an easy job. Then I had to make a cutout in the
plastic.


As for length of telephone cable between master socket and
router/modem. I am using a cheap 20m min ribbon phone extension cable
(Woolies) from a socket whose wiring goes all round the house. No
problems with broadband at 2Mbs.

Robert

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 19:39:16 +0000, age wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:17:59 -0000, "Paul \( Skiing8 \)"
wrote:

SNIP
Rather than use a plug-in filter, I would use a Clarity modified filtered
faceplate in the master socket, as described at Clarity Modified Master
Faceplate You can then hardwire a digital extension into the back of
that,
along with your normal telephone extension wiring.
http://www.clarity.it/telecoms/adsl_faceplate_mod.htm


I saw this a while ago and thought it was a good idea. I had a normal BT
supplied ADSL faceplate and I got thinking about if it was possible to
modify it. Turned out really easy, I popped the blastic back off then
soldered a PCB terminal block thing in place. The holes and connections were
already there so it was an easy job. Then I had to make a cutout in the
plastic.


As for length of telephone cable between master socket and
router/modem. I am using a cheap 20m min ribbon phone extension cable
(Woolies) from a socket whose wiring goes all round the house. No
problems with broadband at 2Mbs.

The signal has already dione a couple of miles ovcer very indifferent and
not-all-that-twisted pairs - a few more meters makes very litle difference.

However I generally prefer to keep teh ADFSL kit over BT lines and do the
rest via tehernet..if only because it makes things tidier.

CAT 5 cable is used for structured installatins BTW because irt is capable
of taking most common signals - ethernet, phone, and serial and token ring
data (thoiugh that is not used so much). In short its good enough for
almost antyhing up to 100mbps.

The cost of halfway decent cat5 is pennies compared to te cost of ripping
up floorboards and laying it, so why mess around.

AND as I discovered to my cost yesterday, its a sight tougher than
telephone cable in terms of fracturing under stress. Grrr.


Robert