I have visited the Axminster Power Tools show for several years, both
when it was at Shepton Mallett and now at Westpoint near Exeter.

I've found it a very good way of seeing what is on the market already,
what is new on the market, to look at and feel a very wide range of
tools in one place and to talk to their vendors.

Broadly, I know what I am going to be looking for in the coming months
and can form opinions of what is good, what is mediochre and what I
should avoid.

I like to spend some time wandering around and comparing, if need be
several times.

This year, I bought tickets in advance for the Thursday and Friday.
Thursday, the preview day, is generally quieter, and I arrived at
lunchtime. By around 1500, it had become quite a bit quieter and I was
able to wander around and spend time without pushing through crowds.
On Friday morning, I went with both Grunff and Phil Addison and we all
had another good look around.

Generally......

The show was quite busy, although I had the impression that the
organisers might have had difficulty selling all the stand space to
trade exhibitors and had done low cost or possibly free deals for craft
exhibitors. Having the turning and carving exhibits is fine, but a
local model aircraft club seemed a bit of a stretch. Nevertheless, I
would rather have something than empty stand space, which always looks
crap.
It's also a shame that venues like this let themselves down by having
mediochre catering and not making enough effort with cleaning the place
- especially the toilets.....
However, to be fair, it is not the most horrendous exhibition venue
that I have visited, by a long way.

I was in the market for a number of things:


- marking tools
- spindle tooling for panel doors
- clamps (you can never have too many)
- small drill driver

Then I wanted to look for new ideas and technologies and at what is
available and becoming available


= Veritas (from Canada)make a very nice range of standard and unusual
fine woodworking tools. I was particularly looking for a good quality
square but they don't seem to make one. However, I did find a very
solid straight edge and a marking knife.
http://www.leevalley.com/

= I like to use the very traditional Bessey K clamps and was planning
to augment my collection using the special show pricing. However, I
also saw their new Duo-clamp product. This is a one hand light clamp
but is a lot better and easier to use than its typical competitors. I
bought some and tried them out at the weekend. Impressed so far

= Utility and Craft knives. I've been disappointed with Stanley
knives in recent years. The handles aren't that good any longer and
either the blades are crap or materials tougher. Either way, not a
pleasure to use. Grunff pointed out a knife range and blades made by
Irwin. Took a close look at these. First of all, the blades are
manufactured such that they are claimed to have three times the life of
plain steel. Secondly, there are a number of well thought out features
in the handle such as magnets to prevent the blades falling out. I
bought two and tried one out on Sunday. They do what they say on the
tin..... nice product. I needed some smaller craft knives as well.
Previously I had used X-Acto that I had bought in the US. Here they
had some Swann Morton ones. Bought a set, haven't tried yet.

= Spindle Tooling. I had been debating whether to go for a set of
router cutters or some 30mm spindle tooling for making door panels. I
was also looking for additional profile tooling. Whitehill really
hadn't bothered to make much effort with what they had to show and talk
about, so I was looking for alternatives, of which there were really
three - Freud, Trend and a newish one (at least here) Brueck.
Again, Freud didn't have that much to offer. Brueck had some good
offerings, a good catalogue of tools and cutters. However, I was
concerned that the cutters seemed to be proprietary to the blocks.
Trend, in their industrial range, have a good range of products and
pricing seemed fair in terms of value for money and choice - plus they
use standard sizes. I went for a profile block and a special offer on
a set of two blocks for door and frame cutting.

= Gorilla Wipes. I allowed myself one product that was being sold on
a fairground basis and this was it. I had used impregnated wipes
before and they were OK but not exceptional. These ones seem to have
an alcohol, a detergent of some kind etc. I've used them for glue
cleanup (aliphatic and PU) as well as grease, silicone etc. I was
especially sceptical about silicones but they will clean it up if
uncured.

= Small drill driver. I have been looking for some time for
something in between the DW 7.2v screwdriver and the Makita 14.4v
products that I have. Both are workhorses and do excellent work.
However, I was looking for something that could achieve the torque
without being overly massive. For mixed work, I have been using the
Trend Snappy tools for a while. These are OK, but some are not a
brilliant fit in their holder. I looked at Makita - all good
products but nothing that fitted the bill; same with Hitachi and Bosch.
I had looked briefly at the Festool stand but had not noticed
anything special. I'm glad I went back on Friday. Grunff spotted
what has turned out to be exactly what I wanted - the C12. This is an
impressive product, and I am not easily impressed. The motor is
brushless and controls are electronic. The torque selector controls
the electronics such that the motor gently cuts when the desired torque
is reached - no clicking gearbox. It's well balanced and light with
a choice of NiMH or NiCD battery packs in different capacities. The
motor runs at high torque and low speed from a light touch on the
trigger - better than even Makita manage, and that's pretty good. I
bought the version with swappable chucks. There is a standard chuck
and then three more. One is an angle chuck that canbe oriented and
locked at any angle. A second is an offset chuck which allows a
screwdriver to be positioned no more than 10mm from an edge and still
straight. This makes a big difference to straight driving in certain
situations. Finally, Festool have their own quick change adaptor,
Centrotec. This is similar to the Snappy idea. Normally I don't like
proprietary stuff, but their implementation is good. Also, I can
change things like drills in the holders so anything is easily
replaced. I have a feeling that this technology will find its way
into other Festool products in the future, but for the moment this is a
very pleasing product that's a pleasure to use. There's a complete
set of parts lists, drawings in the Systainer box along with warranty
and service information.


= Other things

- Over the next few months as projects indicate the need, I am going to
go for some additional hand planes. I have some very old wooden ones
and some slightly less old original Stanley ones, which although looked
after have been "well used".
More recently, I've added to them with certain planes made by
Lie-Nielsen from the U.S. These are also a pleasure to use -feeling
solid and behaving predictably and doing what I wanted.
I had been sure that there was more to be learned, and I found on
Lie-Nielsen's stand a set of three DVDs with David Charlesworth
demonstrating sharpening, planing and shooting techniques.
These are well done and I've learned quite a lot from them already as
well as some useful tricks and techniques. Recommended for anybody
liking hand plane work.

- Look at machines. There was not a lot that was remarkably new.
Perhaps the most noticable addition was Rojek with quite a
comprehensive set of woodworking machines from former eastern Europe.
Quite well positioned and I thought better than Sheppach in their
class.

- Interesting power tool. Arbortech are known for making a range of
rather lethal looking tools for doing large wood carving. They are
Australian, and like most things Australian, subtle is not an adjective
that is used a lot. However, they make an interesting product called
an AS160. www.allsaw.com
This is a saw with two opposing blades for cutting brickwork etc. Its
advantage is that it makes coarse dust which just drops down. So for
chasing and mortar raking it would be attractive to use. This is not
something likely to end up as a DIY or even trade tool in most cases -
price tag is £700. However, according to the makers, they are
starting to enter the tool rental trade. For a few tens of UKL per
day, to avoid mess they could be interesting.


- Look at power tools. Apart from the Festool C12, I didn't see much
else of note. I reconfirmed earlier decisions about power tools that
I had bought - mainly Makita, a few Hitachi and DeWalt and Fein.
Nothing has changed to make me alter that decision.

Looked at what was available from the entry level and midrange
suppliers. Toolbank had a display of the Techtronics Ryobi home
improvement brand tools. There were assorted drills, drivers and
combination drills. The product manager was demonstrating one to a
potential customer and the clutch mechanism jammed. He was able to
free it after jiggling it for a little while. Took a look at this and
a couple of others and no these don't have the solid feel of Makita and
others. Asked the product manager how he positioned TTI Ryobi. His
reply was that they are better than the £30 jobs in B&Q, but clearly
not in the same league as Hitachi, DW, Bosch blue, Makita or the
workhorse, Skil.

The only other product range there nominally in the same league is
Axminster White. Unsurprisingly, there was quite a range. I looked
at a few, and some seemed potentially quite reasonable - especially the
better lathes. It was clear though, that there is inconsistency across
the range - some tool and machine types were a lot better than others.
As an aside, I dropped by the Axminster showroom (in Axminster, funnily
enough) on the way home because there were a couple of things I wanted
to pick up rather than having them sent. On waiting to pay, there
were three different customers with various of their drill products,
all bought within the last few weeks. One had a knackered battery,
another (new one) had a chuck that was obviously eccentric and a third
had a very graunchy gearbox new out of the box.
Two replaced and one refunded.
I don't think I'll buy anything from Axminster White without seeing and
touching it first.


All in all, well worth the trip....

"andy hall" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have visited the Axminster Power Tools show for several years, both
when it was at Shepton Mallett and now at Westpoint near Exeter.

I've found it a very good way of seeing what is on the market already,
what is new on the market, to look at and feel a very wide range of
tools in one place and to talk to their vendors.

Broadly, I know what I am going to be looking for in the coming months
and can form opinions of what is good, what is mediochre and what I
should avoid.

I like to spend some time wandering around and comparing, if need be
several times.

This year, I bought tickets in advance for the Thursday and Friday.
Thursday, the preview day, is generally quieter, and I arrived at
lunchtime. By around 1500, it had become quite a bit quieter and I was
able to wander around and spend time without pushing through crowds.
On Friday morning, I went with both Grunff and Phil Addison and we all
had another good look around.

Generally......

The show was quite busy, although I had the impression that the
organisers might have had difficulty selling all the stand space to
trade exhibitors and had done low cost or possibly free deals for craft
exhibitors. Having the turning and carving exhibits is fine, but a
local model aircraft club seemed a bit of a stretch. Nevertheless, I
would rather have something than empty stand space, which always looks
crap.
It's also a shame that venues like this let themselves down by having
mediochre catering and not making enough effort with cleaning the place
- especially the toilets.....
However, to be fair, it is not the most horrendous exhibition venue
that I have visited, by a long way.

I was in the market for a number of things:


- marking tools
- spindle tooling for panel doors
- clamps (you can never have too many)
- small drill driver

Then I wanted to look for new ideas and technologies and at what is
available and becoming available


= Veritas (from Canada)make a very nice range of standard and unusual
fine woodworking tools. I was particularly looking for a good quality
square but they don't seem to make one. However, I did find a very
solid straight edge and a marking knife.
http://www.leevalley.com/

= I like to use the very traditional Bessey K clamps and was planning
to augment my collection using the special show pricing. However, I
also saw their new Duo-clamp product. This is a one hand light clamp
but is a lot better and easier to use than its typical competitors. I
bought some and tried them out at the weekend. Impressed so far

= Utility and Craft knives. I've been disappointed with Stanley
knives in recent years. The handles aren't that good any longer and
either the blades are crap or materials tougher. Either way, not a
pleasure to use. Grunff pointed out a knife range and blades made by
Irwin. Took a close look at these. First of all, the blades are
manufactured such that they are claimed to have three times the life of
plain steel. Secondly, there are a number of well thought out features
in the handle such as magnets to prevent the blades falling out. I
bought two and tried one out on Sunday. They do what they say on the
tin..... nice product. I needed some smaller craft knives as well.
Previously I had used X-Acto that I had bought in the US. Here they
had some Swann Morton ones. Bought a set, haven't tried yet.

= Spindle Tooling. I had been debating whether to go for a set of
router cutters or some 30mm spindle tooling for making door panels. I
was also looking for additional profile tooling. Whitehill really
hadn't bothered to make much effort with what they had to show and talk
about, so I was looking for alternatives, of which there were really
three - Freud, Trend and a newish one (at least here) Brueck.
Again, Freud didn't have that much to offer. Brueck had some good
offerings, a good catalogue of tools and cutters. However, I was
concerned that the cutters seemed to be proprietary to the blocks.
Trend, in their industrial range, have a good range of products and
pricing seemed fair in terms of value for money and choice - plus they
use standard sizes. I went for a profile block and a special offer on
a set of two blocks for door and frame cutting.

= Gorilla Wipes. I allowed myself one product that was being sold on
a fairground basis and this was it. I had used impregnated wipes
before and they were OK but not exceptional. These ones seem to have
an alcohol, a detergent of some kind etc. I've used them for glue
cleanup (aliphatic and PU) as well as grease, silicone etc. I was
especially sceptical about silicones but they will clean it up if
uncured.

= Small drill driver. I have been looking for some time for
something in between the DW 7.2v screwdriver and the Makita 14.4v
products that I have. Both are workhorses and do excellent work.
However, I was looking for something that could achieve the torque
without being overly massive. For mixed work, I have been using the
Trend Snappy tools for a while. These are OK, but some are not a
brilliant fit in their holder. I looked at Makita - all good
products but nothing that fitted the bill; same with Hitachi and Bosch.
I had looked briefly at the Festool stand but had not noticed
anything special. I'm glad I went back on Friday. Grunff spotted
what has turned out to be exactly what I wanted - the C12. This is an
impressive product, and I am not easily impressed.

This one:
http://store.protrade.co.uk/default.asp?t=15422

The motor is
brushless and controls are electronic. The torque selector controls
the electronics such that the motor gently cuts when the desired torque
is reached - no clicking gearbox. It's well balanced and light with
a choice of NiMH or NiCD battery packs in different capacities. The
motor runs at high torque and low speed from a light touch on the
trigger - better than even Makita manage, and that's pretty good. I
bought the version with swappable chucks. There is a standard chuck
and then three more. One is an angle chuck that canbe oriented and
locked at any angle. A second is an offset chuck which allows a
screwdriver to be positioned no more than 10mm from an edge and still
straight. This makes a big difference to straight driving in certain
situations. Finally, Festool have their own quick change adaptor,
Centrotec. This is similar to the Snappy idea. Normally I don't like
proprietary stuff, but their implementation is good. Also, I can
change things like drills in the holders so anything is easily
replaced. I have a feeling that this technology will find its way
into other Festool products in the future, but for the moment this is a
very pleasing product that's a pleasure to use. There's a complete
set of parts lists, drawings in the Systainer box along with warranty
and service information.


= Other things

- Over the next few months as projects indicate the need, I am going to
go for some additional hand planes. I have some very old wooden ones
and some slightly less old original Stanley ones, which although looked
after have been "well used".
More recently, I've added to them with certain planes made by
Lie-Nielsen from the U.S. These are also a pleasure to use -feeling
solid and behaving predictably and doing what I wanted.
I had been sure that there was more to be learned, and I found on
Lie-Nielsen's stand a set of three DVDs with David Charlesworth
demonstrating sharpening, planing and shooting techniques.
These are well done and I've learned quite a lot from them already as
well as some useful tricks and techniques. Recommended for anybody
liking hand plane work.

- Look at machines. There was not a lot that was remarkably new.
Perhaps the most noticable addition was Rojek with quite a
comprehensive set of woodworking machines from former eastern Europe.
Quite well positioned and I thought better than Sheppach in their
class.

- Interesting power tool. Arbortech are known for making a range of
rather lethal looking tools for doing large wood carving. They are
Australian, and like most things Australian, subtle is not an adjective
that is used a lot. However, they make an interesting product called
an AS160. www.allsaw.com
This is a saw with two opposing blades for cutting brickwork etc. Its
advantage is that it makes coarse dust which just drops down. So for
chasing and mortar raking it would be attractive to use. This is not
something likely to end up as a DIY or even trade tool in most cases -
price tag is £700. However, according to the makers, they are
starting to enter the tool rental trade. For a few tens of UKL per
day, to avoid mess they could be interesting.


- Look at power tools. Apart from the Festool C12, I didn't see much
else of note. I reconfirmed earlier decisions about power tools that
I had bought - mainly Makita, a few Hitachi and DeWalt and Fein.
Nothing has changed to make me alter that decision.

Looked at what was available from the entry level and midrange
suppliers. Toolbank had a display of the Techtronics Ryobi home
improvement brand tools. There were assorted drills, drivers and
combination drills. The product manager was demonstrating one to a
potential customer and the clutch mechanism jammed. He was able to
free it after jiggling it for a little while. Took a look at this and
a couple of others and no these don't have the solid feel of Makita and
others. Asked the product manager how he positioned TTI Ryobi. His
reply was that they are better than the £30 jobs in B&Q, but clearly
not in the same league as Hitachi, DW, Bosch blue, Makita or the
workhorse, Skil.

The only other product range there nominally in the same league is
Axminster White. Unsurprisingly, there was quite a range. I looked
at a few, and some seemed potentially quite reasonable - especially the
better lathes. It was clear though, that there is inconsistency across
the range - some tool and machine types were a lot better than others.
As an aside, I dropped by the Axminster showroom (in Axminster, funnily
enough) on the way home because there were a couple of things I wanted
to pick up rather than having them sent. On waiting to pay, there
were three different customers with various of their drill products,
all bought within the last few weeks. One had a knackered battery,
another (new one) had a chuck that was obviously eccentric and a third
had a very graunchy gearbox new out of the box.
Two replaced and one refunded.
I don't think I'll buy anything from Axminster White without seeing and
touching it first.


All in all, well worth the trip....

On 16 Nov 2005 14:04:28 -0800, "andy hall"
wrote:

I have visited the Axminster Power Tools show for several years

snip

All in all, well worth the trip....

Thanks for that Andy. Wouldn't mind going myself but the NEC is about
as far south as I like to venture by road!



--

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 23:20:55 +0000, Matt
wrote:

On 16 Nov 2005 14:04:28 -0800, "andy hall"
wrote:

I have visited the Axminster Power Tools show for several years

snip

All in all, well worth the trip....

Thanks for that Andy. Wouldn't mind going myself but the NEC is about
as far south as I like to venture by road!


I've noticed that there are a number of woodworking shows in the
Midlands.

Any of them any good?


--

..andy

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 23:32:28 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 23:20:55 +0000, Matt
wrote:

On 16 Nov 2005 14:04:28 -0800, "andy hall"
wrote:

I have visited the Axminster Power Tools show for several years

snip

All in all, well worth the trip....

Thanks for that Andy. Wouldn't mind going myself but the NEC is about
as far south as I like to venture by road!


I've noticed that there are a number of woodworking shows in the
Midlands.

Any of them any good?

I've not been to any for about 15 years now, most of my "work" is with
metal or composites. The woodworking is the (occasional) hobby!


--

On 16 Nov 2005 14:04:28 -0800, "andy hall" wrote:

I don't think I'll buy anything from Axminster White without seeing and
touching it first.

Machines are OK, the hand power tools are poor.

Hands up anyone who bought one White hand tool, then bought another one
after your first experience ? Not me....

Andy Dingley wrote:

Machines are OK, the hand power tools are poor.

Agreed on both counts.


Hands up anyone who bought one White hand tool, then bought another one
after your first experience ? Not me....

I bought their 18V combi drill, and sent it back after a week.


--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Andy Dingley wrote:

Machines are OK, the hand power tools are poor.

Agreed on both counts.

Hands up anyone who bought one White hand tool, then bought another one
after your first experience ? Not me....

I bought their 18V combi drill, and sent it back after a week.

I told you not to buy it.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

I bought their 18V combi drill, and sent it back after a week.


I told you not to buy it.


Yes, but you also told me to buy the Power Pro 18V combi, which I did,
and also returned within a week. Life's too short. I'll stick with my
Makita. Having said that, Andy's Festool is a super drill, and I
wouldn't mind one of those soon...


--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

I bought their 18V combi drill, and sent it back after a week.


I told you not to buy it.


Yes, but you also told me to buy the Power Pro 18V combi, which I did,
and also returned within a week. Life's too short. I'll stick with my
Makita. Having said that, Andy's Festool is a super drill, and I
wouldn't mind one of those soon...

How much? All the accessories makes it about £500. For a drill/driver?
Please. It good. but not that good.

As I have mentioned, Wickes now sell a 15.6v high torque Kress with an
detachable angle chuck for £95, normally £130.

If I was in the market for one of these attachment types I would go for the
Kress, which is a very good German make.

But I would "probably" buy the Ryobi kit for around £106, which has a
battery angle drill and drill/driver, so no playing with attachments, and
just pick up the drills and go. http://tinyurl.com/d9bf9 Although the Kress
is a quality product.

andy hall wrote:
I have visited the Axminster Power Tools show for several years, both
when it was at Shepton Mallett and now at Westpoint near Exeter.

huge snips.....

- Interesting power tool. Arbortech are known for making a range of
rather lethal looking tools for doing large wood carving. They are
Australian, and like most things Australian, subtle is not an
adjective that is used a lot. However, they make an interesting
product called an AS160. www.allsaw.com
This is a saw with two opposing blades for cutting brickwork etc. Its
advantage is that it makes coarse dust which just drops down. So for
chasing and mortar raking it would be attractive to use. This is not
something likely to end up as a DIY or even trade tool in most cases -
price tag is £700. However, according to the makers, they are
starting to enter the tool rental trade. For a few tens of UKL per
day, to avoid mess they could be interesting.

Interesting one for us, this, thanks Andy. Just had a look at the
website. It does look expensive at 700GBP, and it's hard to tell from
the pictures (system here is too slow for videos etc), but it doesn't
look very robust for regular(ish) professional use. And it would need to
be for that price. We could make quite alot of use of something like
that instead of an angle grinder and the price would be OK if it was
going to last. Also what about life/replacement of blades? I've emailed
them for more details/stockists, but having seen the thing have you any
more thoughts on this please?

Shame this thread has gone off on a tangent towards BMW/Skoda :-)
--
Holly, in France
Holiday Home in Dordogne
http://la-plaine.chez.tiscali.fr/

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 23:09:37 +0100, "Holly, in France"
wrote:

andy hall wrote:
I have visited the Axminster Power Tools show for several years, both
when it was at Shepton Mallett and now at Westpoint near Exeter.

huge snips.....

- Interesting power tool. Arbortech are known for making a range of
rather lethal looking tools for doing large wood carving. They are
Australian, and like most things Australian, subtle is not an
adjective that is used a lot. However, they make an interesting
product called an AS160. www.allsaw.com
This is a saw with two opposing blades for cutting brickwork etc. Its
advantage is that it makes coarse dust which just drops down. So for
chasing and mortar raking it would be attractive to use. This is not
something likely to end up as a DIY or even trade tool in most cases -
price tag is £700. However, according to the makers, they are
starting to enter the tool rental trade. For a few tens of UKL per
day, to avoid mess they could be interesting.

Interesting one for us, this, thanks Andy. Just had a look at the
website. It does look expensive at 700GBP, and it's hard to tell from
the pictures (system here is too slow for videos etc), but it doesn't
look very robust for regular(ish) professional use. And it would need to
be for that price. We could make quite alot of use of something like
that instead of an angle grinder and the price would be OK if it was
going to last. Also what about life/replacement of blades? I've emailed
them for more details/stockists, but having seen the thing have you any
more thoughts on this please?

Grunff may venture an opinion as well, since we also saw it. Mine
was that it appeared to be about as sturdy as an angle grinder -
didn't seem flimsy.

The package price included "£200-worth of blades". We didn't enquire
as to what that meant, and how many it was. It may have been a
marketing ploy that the normal list price would be this, but street
price for the blades less - we didn't check.

The other concern is that they are a proprietary blade.

However, the guy demonstrating it said that he wasn't expecting to
sell any at the show, more that they wanted to stimulate demand via
the rental places.

I'd rent one first and form an opinion before considering buying.
Certainly it did do the claimed thing of cutting (e.g. breeze block)
without shooting clouds of fine dust everywhere.



--

..andy

Andy Hall wrote:

Grunff may venture an opinion as well, since we also saw it. Mine
was that it appeared to be about as sturdy as an angle grinder -
didn't seem flimsy.

I thought it felt pretty sturdy, and would expect it to take quite a bit
of abuse. The blades were quite thick steel (2-3mm), with welded teeth.

I think if I was chasing out another house, I'd be very keen to hire one
for a week.


--
Grunff

Andy Hall wrote:

re Arbortech AS160, rest snipped

I'd rent one first and form an opinion before considering buying.
Certainly it did do the claimed thing of cutting (e.g. breeze block)
without shooting clouds of fine dust everywhere.

Thanks Andy and also Grunff for your comments. Renting isn't likely to
be a possibility for us around here. I have found and contacted the
French distributor so we'll see what they say. It's not something we
would buy without seeing it in action first. If the concept is good and
the tool becomes popular I guess other manufacturers might soon come up
with something similar.

--
Holly, in France
Holiday Home in Dordogne
http://la-plaine.chez.tiscali.fr/

On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 15:09:28 +0100, "Holly, in France"
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:

re Arbortech AS160, rest snipped

I'd rent one first and form an opinion before considering buying.
Certainly it did do the claimed thing of cutting (e.g. breeze block)
without shooting clouds of fine dust everywhere.

Thanks Andy and also Grunff for your comments. Renting isn't likely to
be a possibility for us around here. I have found and contacted the
French distributor so we'll see what they say. It's not something we
would buy without seeing it in action first. If the concept is good and
the tool becomes popular I guess other manufacturers might soon come up
with something similar.

Aren't there tool rental places in France, or is it just your area? I
would have thought that Bordeaux was large enough to have this?

To put a scale on it, though, I'd consider buying one if I were
doing a complete house renovation including all chasing etc and
exterior work. Probably not for less.


--

..andy

"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 15:09:28 +0100, "Holly, in France"
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:

re Arbortech AS160, rest snipped

I'd rent one first and form an opinion before considering buying.
Certainly it did do the claimed thing of cutting (e.g. breeze block)
without shooting clouds of fine dust everywhere.

Thanks Andy and also Grunff for your comments. Renting isn't likely to
be a possibility for us around here. I have found and contacted the
French distributor so we'll see what they say. It's not something we
would buy without seeing it in action first. If the concept is good and
the tool becomes popular I guess other manufacturers might soon come up
with something similar.

Aren't there tool rental places in France, or is it just your area? I
would have thought that Bordeaux was large enough to have this?

To put a scale on it, though, I'd consider buying one if I were
doing a complete house renovation including all chasing etc and
exterior work. Probably not for less.

You can always sell these things on afterwards and recoup much of the cost.

"andy hall" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have visited the Axminster Power Tools show for several years, both
when it was at Shepton Mallett and now at Westpoint near Exeter.

Andy good innovative hand tools around?

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 10:34:43 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"andy hall" wrote in message
roups.com...
I have visited the Axminster Power Tools show for several years, both
when it was at Shepton Mallett and now at Westpoint near Exeter.

Andy good innovative hand tools around?

Certainly some good ones.


I like to use hand planes for certain work and have a number made by
Lie-Nielsen. http://www.lie-nielsen.com/

There were some interesting specialised ones such as scraping planes
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=85
and I might put one of these on my Christmas list.

There was also on Lie-Nielsen's stand a set of DVDs by David
Charlesworth covering sharpening and use of planes for standard and
shooting operations. Recommended for anybody interested in hand plane
care and use.


I can't say that I saw anything that I would describe as innovative,
although I suppose that chisel planes
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=975
were unusual.



--

..andy

"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
news
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 10:34:43 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"andy hall" aka Matt wrote in message
roups.com...
I have visited the Axminster Power Tools show for several years, both
when it was at Shepton Mallett and now at Westpoint near Exeter.

Andy good innovative hand tools around?

Certainly some good ones.

I like to use hand planes for certain work and have a number made by
Lie-Nielsen. http://www.lie-nielsen.com/

There were some interesting specialised ones such as scraping planes
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=85
and I might put one of these on my Christmas list.

There was also on Lie-Nielsen's stand a set of DVDs by David
Charlesworth covering sharpening and use of planes for standard and
shooting operations. Recommended for anybody interested in hand plane
care and use.

I can't say that I saw anything that I would describe as innovative,
although I suppose that chisel planes
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=975
were unusual.

Matt, you have a thing about planes.

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:18:24 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
news
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 10:34:43 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"andy hall" aka Matt wrote in message
roups.com...
I have visited the Axminster Power Tools show for several years, both
when it was at Shepton Mallett and now at Westpoint near Exeter.

Andy good innovative hand tools around?

Certainly some good ones.

I like to use hand planes for certain work and have a number made by
Lie-Nielsen. http://www.lie-nielsen.com/

There were some interesting specialised ones such as scraping planes
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=85
and I might put one of these on my Christmas list.

There was also on Lie-Nielsen's stand a set of DVDs by David
Charlesworth covering sharpening and use of planes for standard and
shooting operations. Recommended for anybody interested in hand plane
care and use.

I can't say that I saw anything that I would describe as innovative,
although I suppose that chisel planes
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=975
were unusual.

Matt, you have a thing about planes.

You had better ask Matt about that.


I quite like them and appreciate the feel and use of a good one.


--

..andy

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
I can't say that I saw anything that I would describe as innovative,
although I suppose that chisel planes
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=975
were unusual.

$185 !!!!!!!!!

For a cleaning up plane?

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

"John Cartmell" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andy Hall aka Matt wrote:
I can't say that I saw anything that I would describe as innovative,
although I suppose that chisel planes
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=975
were unusual.

$185 !!!!!!!!!

For a cleaning up plane?

Matt goes on price only...and if you can get parts. Cheaper products can do
the same, and if they fail replace them, and still save a ton of money.
Take a £90 Makita drill. After two years if it requires a £50 repair, and
no drill for a week or so, is it worth it? You have to balance it all up.

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:51:36 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"John Cartmell" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andy Hall aka Matt wrote:
I can't say that I saw anything that I would describe as innovative,
although I suppose that chisel planes
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=975
were unusual.

$185 !!!!!!!!!

For a cleaning up plane?

Matt goes on price only.

You had better ask Matt about that.


...and if you can get parts. Cheaper products can do
the same, and if they fail replace them, and still save a ton of money.
Take a £90 Makita drill. After two years if it requires a £50 repair, and
no drill for a week or so, is it worth it? You have to balance it all up.

You certainly do. If you take a llok at what I wrote on the subject,
money, other than total cost of ownership, was not mentioned, and then
at the end.

OTOH, it seems that you always lead with this issue, as though
purchase price is the most important factor. Perhaps it is for you.
However, to then attempt to justify that something that you buy at the
cheapest price does the same as something chosen based on what it does
and how well it does so is clearly ridiculous.



--

..andy

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:51:36 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=975
were unusual.

$185 !!!!!!!!!

For a cleaning up plane?

Matt goes on price only...and if you can get parts. Cheaper products can do
the same, and if they fail replace them, and still save a ton of money.

Do B&Q sell chisel planes then ?

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:27:07 +0000 (GMT), John Cartmell
wrote:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
I can't say that I saw anything that I would describe as innovative,
although I suppose that chisel planes
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=975
were unusual.

$185 !!!!!!!!!

For a cleaning up plane?

I was describing interesting and innovative things, not suggesting
that I would buy one of these. THe price of this one is probably
related to the (likely) small volume.

However, their No. 4 Smooth Plane and No. 5 Jack Plane ($300) are a
pleasure to use. I think they are worth every penny.

There are certainly more expensive planes around. There were a
couple of vendors making individual ones to order. Those are in the
£1k to £3k range.






--

..andy

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 13:15:22 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

However, their No. 4 Smooth Plane and No. 5 Jack Plane ($300) are a
pleasure to use. I think they are worth every penny.

I don't. Bronze is a problem for corrosion and dark stains on wood, if
you have a damp climate and workshop. Also there are a large nunber of
good options for a #4 for much less money (Veritas, old Stanley - my
"users" are all Sweethearts).

I'll buy a Lie-Nielsen if it's the only option available (a #140
perhaps), but I wouldn't go overboard on something where there are other
makers around. They are good though.

The #112 is an excellent plane. I usually use a L-N here because my
original Stanley one is a real dog. The handle arrangeent makes it much
more useful than a #12.

"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
news
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 10:34:43 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

"andy hall" wrote in message
roups.com...
I have visited the Axminster Power Tools show for several years, both
when it was at Shepton Mallett and now at Westpoint near Exeter.

Andy good innovative hand tools around?

Certainly some good ones.

I like to use hand planes for certain work and have a number made by
Lie-Nielsen. http://www.lie-nielsen.com/

There were some interesting specialised ones such as scraping planes
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=85
and I might put one of these on my Christmas list.

There was also on Lie-Nielsen's stand a set of DVDs by David
Charlesworth covering sharpening and use of planes for standard and
shooting operations. Recommended for anybody interested in hand plane
care and use.

I can't say that I saw anything that I would describe as innovative,
although I suppose that chisel planes
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=975
were unusual.

Wickes are now selling the Draper ratchet pipe cutter for £15. This is very
useful indeed and well worth having.

Item 12 he
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...227305-1533236

And as mentioned on another thread, the Monument 15 and 22mm olive puller at
around £20. This is very new on the market.
http://www.monument-tools.com/whatsnewv2.htm

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:46:58 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:



Wickes are now selling the Draper ratchet pipe cutter for £15. This is very
useful indeed and well worth having.

Item 12 he
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...227305-1533236

Presumably because it can be fitted around a pipe in a corner? I can
see some value in that.

I like to use a little Rothenburger miniature cutter that I've had for
a while to do these kind of jobs


And as mentioned on another thread, the Monument 15 and 22mm olive puller at
around £20. This is very new on the market.
http://www.monument-tools.com/whatsnewv2.htm


Interesting. I've had a Monument pipe cutter for donkey's years.
Solid and simple and I like being able to get spare cutters easily.

Their product code 2645T on the same page is quite good as well...


--

..andy

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:46:58 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

Wickes are now selling the Draper ratchet pipe cutter for £15. This is
very
useful indeed and well worth having.

Item 12 he

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...0227305-153323
6

Presumably because it can be fitted around a pipe in a corner? I can
see some value in that.

I have one. Work well.

I like to use a little Rothenburger miniature cutter that I've had for
a while to do these kind of jobs

And as mentioned on another thread, the Monument 15 and 22mm olive puller
at
around £20. This is very new on the market.
http://www.monument-tools.com/whatsnewv2.htm

Interesting. I've had a Monument pipe cutter for donkey's years.
Solid and simple and I like being able to get spare cutters easily.

I have had one for more than donkey's years.

Their product code 2645T on the same page is quite good as well...

Better is : BES No: 11629 I have one. V Good for toy pipes.