Hi,
I have a single story kitchen extension with a tiled roof which is
leaking and causing a significant damp problem in the room. The leak is
at the join between the main house and the slooping roof. I think the
leak is caused by the lack of lead flashing along this join. I've
previously been planning to fit one but because of time pressures at
the moment I got someone round to give me a quote.

He suggested using a plastic alternative. I can't remember the name for
it but it sounds like a bitumen based product which creates a bond
between the wall and the tiles and seals the gap -similar to the black
tape you can buy in DIY shops but a bit tougher. He quoted 350 pounds
for this and said doing it in lead would cost 700. He'll guarantee the
plastic bonding work for 10 years and although he would fit a lead
flashing he can't guarentee it because when the concrete dries it will
fall out.

I really don't know which option to choose. I feel a bit wary about
choosing the plastic option even though its cheaper and has a
guarantee. Does anyone have any experience with this alternative to
lead flashing?

Although the lead flashing could/will fall out eventually I can put it
back myself -which isn't too big a job. If the plastic breaks I just
have to start again. However, 10 years is quite a long time and a
saving of 350 pounds is quite significant.

Also, lead flashing is cut into the brick so I always imagined it
caught some of the falling moisture in the wall which the plastic
version will not do- am I correct?

thanks for any advice
Thomas

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,
I have a single story kitchen extension with a tiled roof which is
leaking and causing a significant damp problem in the room. The leak is
at the join between the main house and the slooping roof. I think the
leak is caused by the lack of lead flashing along this join. I've
previously been planning to fit one but because of time pressures at
the moment I got someone round to give me a quote.

He suggested using a plastic alternative. I can't remember the name for
it but it sounds like a bitumen based product which creates a bond
between the wall and the tiles and seals the gap -similar to the black
tape you can buy in DIY shops but a bit tougher. He quoted 350 pounds
for this and said doing it in lead would cost 700. He'll guarantee the
plastic bonding work for 10 years and although he would fit a lead
flashing he can't guarentee it because when the concrete dries it will
fall out.

I really don't know which option to choose. I feel a bit wary about
choosing the plastic option even though its cheaper and has a
guarantee. Does anyone have any experience with this alternative to
lead flashing?

Although the lead flashing could/will fall out eventually I can put it
back myself -which isn't too big a job. If the plastic breaks I just
have to start again. However, 10 years is quite a long time and a
saving of 350 pounds is quite significant.

Also, lead flashing is cut into the brick so I always imagined it
caught some of the falling moisture in the wall which the plastic
version will not do- am I correct?

thanks for any advice
Thomas

No advice on those particular options, but you could use the fake lead
flashing which is anodised aluminium backed by bitumen. May need surfaces to
be painted with a proprietary primer first if they are dusty or difficult to
adhere to. A hairdryer might help the bitumen backing adhere in this
temperature, as will pressure. Not as good as proper lead flashing of
course, but easy enough to fit, fairly cheap (£30 I'd say ), and reasonably
durable years, though I wouldn't want to predict quite how many.

Andy.

wrote:

Hi,
I have a single story kitchen extension with a tiled roof which is
leaking and causing a significant damp problem in the room. The leak is
at the join between the main house and the slooping roof. I think the
leak is caused by the lack of lead flashing along this join. I've
previously been planning to fit one but because of time pressures at
the moment I got someone round to give me a quote.

He suggested using a plastic alternative. I can't remember the name for
it but it sounds like a bitumen based product which creates a bond
between the wall and the tiles and seals the gap -similar to the black
tape you can buy in DIY shops but a bit tougher.

sticky tape then.

He quoted 350 pounds
for this

!!

and said doing it in lead would cost 700. He'll guarantee the
plastic bonding work for 10 years

written insurance backed guarantee? Will you really be able to find him
and claim on it?


and although he would fit a lead
flashing he can't guarentee it because when the concrete dries it will
fall out.

bull****ting cowboy, in case you hadnt already noticed.


I really don't know which option to choose. I feel a bit wary about
choosing the plastic option even though its cheaper and has a
guarantee. Does anyone have any experience with this alternative to
lead flashing?

its cheap, doesnt last so well, and you could diy it in no time.


Although the lead flashing could/will fall out eventually

maybe in 100 yrs, if youre unlucky.

However, 10 years is quite a long time

its meaningless


Also, lead flashing is cut into the brick so I always imagined it
caught some of the falling moisture in the wall which the plastic
version will not do- am I correct?

not really. It can be either sptepped or sit straight in a cut groove,
the former is much better option, the latter causes nowt but problems
in the long run.


NT

In article .com,
wrote:
He'll guarantee the plastic bonding work for 10 years and although he
would fit a lead flashing he can't guarentee it because when the
concrete dries it will fall out.

Find someone who knows what they're doing.

--
*What happens if you get scared half to death twice? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 7 Nov 2005 06:13:17 -0800, wrote:

He quoted 350 pounds for this and said doing it in lead would cost
700.

What breakdown between parts and labour? I suspect the tape he can
whack on in a morning the lead might take a day or two. Who is backing
the guarantee, an insurance company or him? If him what happens if he
goes bust or disappears...

Personally I'm old fashioned when it comes to this sort of thing and
would only accept properly chased in, wedged, and formed lead. These
days lead will last for donkeys years, the pointing might need redoing
but so will all the pointing at some point...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

typed:

Hi,
I have a single story kitchen extension with a tiled roof which is
leaking and causing a significant damp problem in the room. The leak
is at the join between the main house and the slooping roof.
He suggested using a plastic alternative. I can't remember the name
for it but it sounds like a bitumen based product He quoted 350 pounds
for this and said doing it in lead would cost 700.
snip

Trust me, black sticky tape and this builder should be avoided.
lead flashing is the only way to fix this, and you should be able to get it
done for well under £700.


-

Thanks for all the advice.
I think I might have gone ahead with the tape, against my instincts,
if I hadn't asked here.

Given the time I could waste trying to find a reliable builder I'm
thinking of doing it myself.
Is that realistic? Can anyone recommend a book/web site which describes
the process.

I'm guessing you chissel out the mortar from between the bricks and
push in strips of lead,
folding each one over the bricks and then across the tiles. The bit I'm
not so clear on is
the join between the lead and the tiles. Does the lead just rest on the
tiles? I've been looking
at other roofs from a distance and the lead seems to form a straight
line down the roof. Is that done by cutting each strip of lead to the
right shape?

Also, is the lead just held in by the mortar or should I wedge it with
something before I put the
mortar in? How far in should the lead go?

thanks again,
Thomas

wrote:

Thanks for all the advice.
I think I might have gone ahead with the tape, against my instincts,
if I hadn't asked here.

Given the time I could waste trying to find a reliable builder I'm
thinking of doing it myself.
Is that realistic? Can anyone recommend a book/web site which describes
the process.

I'm guessing you chissel out the mortar from between the bricks and
push in strips of lead,
folding each one over the bricks and then across the tiles.

Not that clear what you mean, but it doesnt sound right to me.

The bit I'm
not so clear on is
the join between the lead and the tiles. Does the lead just rest on the
tiles?

yep.

I've been looking
at other roofs from a distance and the lead seems to form a straight
line down the roof. Is that done by cutting each strip of lead to the
right shape?

Each lead strip will end up with a 1 sided herring bone pattern of cuts
in it.


Also, is the lead just held in by the mortar or should I wedge it with
something before I put the
mortar in? How far in should the lead go?

Is this a party wall by any chance? If it is, I'd go with the sticky
tape, as lead is liable to involve you in the complexities and expense
of party wall legalitiies. Sticky tape doesnt require any party wall
complications, lead does since it means cutting into the wall.

If you get on a ladder and have a closer look at some stepped lead
flashing you'l soon see how its done.


NT

In article . com,
wrote:
Given the time I could waste trying to find a reliable builder I'm
thinking of doing it myself. Is that realistic? Can anyone recommend a
book/web site which describes the process.

I'm guessing you chissel out the mortar from between the bricks and push
in strips of lead, folding each one over the bricks and then across the
tiles. The bit I'm not so clear on is the join between the lead and the
tiles. Does the lead just rest on the tiles? I've been looking at other
roofs from a distance and the lead seems to form a straight line down
the roof. Is that done by cutting each strip of lead to the right shape?

Stepped flashing is where you cut the lead to fit the existing brick
courses. The other way is to cut a parallel groove with an angle grinder,
etc. Stepped uses more lead - but looks better IMHO.

Rake out the mortar to a depth of at least an inch. Make a cardboard
template first to get the angles correct, then transfer this to the lead.
It's a very easy material to work with.

Also, is the lead just held in by the mortar or should I wedge it with
something before I put the
mortar in? How far in should the lead go?

Like I said about an inch. The usual way to secure it before re-pointing
is with wedges made from the lead offcuts. Make them about an inch wide
and fold over in a 'Z' fashion. Then ram them in place with a drift and
hammer.

It would make things easier if you could examine an already done job
closely - perhaps with binoculars.

--
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message . com,
" writes
Thanks for all the advice.
I think I might have gone ahead with the tape, against my instincts,
if I hadn't asked here.

Given the time I could waste trying to find a reliable builder I'm
thinking of doing it myself.
Is that realistic? Can anyone recommend a book/web site which describes
the process.

Wickes have a fairly good leaflet about it:

http://www.wickes.co.uk/scat/goodideas

Direct to file:

http://media.venda.com/wickes/ebiz/wickes/images/gil/22.pdf
--
Chris French

Thanks for the link. I have a fair idea what I need to do now but it's
raised some more questions.

How long is this likely to take? Given that the roof is about 3
meters will I get it done in one day (7 hours)?

Do I need to buy a dresser and/or bossing stick or can I get buy with
a mallet and a bit of wood?

Should I use clips to hold the flashing down on to the tiles (as
described in the wickes leaflet)?

Should I use sealant instead of cement for the pointing (as described
in the leaflet)? I don't think I've ever seen flashing which doesn't
use cement but if sealant works better I'm happy to use it. Sometimes
the new alternatives can be worse though (like the stickey tape which
started this thread).

Although the lead flashing could/will fall out eventually I can put it
back myself -which isn't too big a job. If the plastic breaks I just
have to start again. However, 10 years is quite a long time and a
saving of 350 pounds is quite significant.

My god! Is this a stepped flashing or a straight line join?

Anything other than proper lead flashing looks cheap and nasty.

Lead flashing is dead easy to do. I really enjoyed flashing in my
conservatory. Although a stepped flashing would be more difficult than the
straight one I needed, I almost wished I had needed to do one as I found the
leadwork really enjoyable. A really nice material to work with. Easy to cut,
easy to bend. Stays exactly where it is told.

Don't skimp on the patination oil, though. I missed a bit, and it is really
quite obvious if you look.

Christian.

In article .com,
wrote:
How long is this likely to take? Given that the roof is about 3
meters will I get it done in one day (7 hours)?

Should be fine.

Do I need to buy a dresser and/or bossing stick or can I get buy with
a mallet and a bit of wood?

A dressing hammer - plastic - only costs about a tenner but isn't
essential. However, making wood 'bits' to do the same job might not be
worth the bother.

Should I use clips to hold the flashing down on to the tiles (as
described in the wickes leaflet)?

I've never seen these. Lead stays in place without any clips on the tiles.

Should I use sealant instead of cement for the pointing (as described
in the leaflet)? I don't think I've ever seen flashing which doesn't
use cement but if sealant works better I'm happy to use it. Sometimes
the new alternatives can be worse though (like the stickey tape which
started this thread).

The traditional way is just mortar. It's worked for hundreds of years. And
of course is the same as the pointing between brick courses.

--
*Why is the man who invests all your money called a broker?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2005-11-09, wrote:
Thanks for the link. I have a fair idea what I need to do now but it's
raised some more questions.

How long is this likely to take? Given that the roof is about 3
meters will I get it done in one day (7 hours)?

When I did my flat roof (many years ago), me and a mate did the whole
width of the house in less than a morning. This involved angle grinding
a few cm. of motar from between 2 rows of bricks, folding/inserting the
lead flashing (with folded bits to keep it in, as mentioned) then using
a quick-set mortar to fix it in place.
If it's easy to get access and the weather is OK, I'd guess 1 person
could do 3 metres in well less than a day ...
unless you're getting paid by the hour :-)


--
.................................................. .........................
.. never trust a man who, when left alone ...... Pete Lynch .
.. in a room with a tea cosy ...... Marlow, England .
.. doesn't try it on (Billy Connolly) .....................................

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
thomas.rynne wrote:
Should I use clips to hold the flashing down on to the tiles (as
described in the wickes leaflet)?

I've never seen these. Lead stays in place without any clips on the tiles.

The "clips" referred to are probably lead strips nailed in place
and bent back over the flashing, like the ones used to replace a
single damaged slate. They are used for quality leadwork - however,
whether they're needed for the OPs work I don't know, as I don't
know what that work is!

The traditional way is just mortar. It's worked for hundreds of years. And
of course is the same as the pointing between brick courses.

I used the special lead sealant, which is basically silicone stained lead
colour. It is probably much easier to use, but more expensive, than
traditional mortar. My basic procedure was to angle grind out the mortar to
just the thickness of the blade, insert the lead, shape the lead and then
seal. No need to rake out the whole lot to be repointed.

Christian.

In article ,
Christian McArdle wrote:
The traditional way is just mortar. It's worked for hundreds of years.
And of course is the same as the pointing between brick courses.

I used the special lead sealant, which is basically silicone stained
lead colour. It is probably much easier to use, but more expensive, than
traditional mortar. My basic procedure was to angle grind out the mortar
to just the thickness of the blade, insert the lead, shape the lead and
then seal. No need to rake out the whole lot to be repointed.

Right. My house is Victorian so once you're through the pointing raking
out is easy.

--
*I started out with nothing... and I still have most of it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Wrote:
Thanks for the link. I have a fair idea what I need to do now but it's
raised some more questions.

How long is this likely to take? Given that the roof is about 3
meters will I get it done in one day (7 hours)?

Do I need to buy a dresser and/or bossing stick or can I get buy with
a mallet and a bit of wood?

Should I use clips to hold the flashing down on to the tiles (as
described in the wickes leaflet)?

Should I use sealant instead of cement for the pointing (as described
in the leaflet)? I don't think I've ever seen flashing which doesn't
use cement but if sealant works better I'm happy to use it. Sometimes
the new alternatives can be worse though (like the stickey tape which
started this thread).

Just to clarify, are you talking about the horizontal flashing along
the top of the roof or the sloping one down the side.

If its the horizontal flashing then you should be ok in a day. You will

need to do it in two pieces as the lead shouldn't be used over 1.5
mtrs
to allow for expansion, overlap the two pieces by 100mm.

Ive got various bossing tools but for a long time used a piece of 2 x
1
and a hammer, be careful not to hit the lead with hammer or mark it
to much as it can look messy.

The wieght of the lead will hold it down to the tiles but make sure you
dress it nice and tightly into the wall particularly at the angle where
the tiles meet the wall and then just lightly dress the lead down onto
the tiles, you will need
to work back and forth a few times to get it looking neat.

Ive used sealents many times and they do a good job if you make sure
the brick joints are free of loose cement and dust, I use a low modulus
silicone
in a suitable colour.

Pionting with cement is not difficult but again clean out the joints
well and clean any cement of the lead afterwards.

BTW you should form up each piece of lead on a bench first, measure the
upstand, rough angle of roof and the depth of the chase and then bend
the lead into pretty much the right shape before taking it up onto the
roof, you can then tuck it into the chase, wedge it with lead offcuts
and then carefully dress it into place.

The big secret with lead is take your time, if you work the lead
carefully you will get it to the shape and position you want without
damaging it, if you rush it will look s**t

Good luck.


--
Nick H

Right. My house is Victorian so once you're through the pointing raking
out is easy.

So's mine (well actually Edwardian, but still built with lime).
Unfortunately the very rear wall (but luckily no others) has been repointed
with cement at some point, and this was the wall that needed the flashing.

Christian.

I did the job last weekend. Thanks for all the advice.
It went reasonably well although it did take me most of the weekend.
I couldn't get the lead to hug the tiles as much as I'd like but I can
improve that later.

I'm please I went with the lead flashing and not the plastic bonding.
It cost £130 in the end, which included about £30 on tools so it
worked out much cheaper than £350 too.

thanks
Thomas

In article .com,
wrote:
I did the job last weekend. Thanks for all the advice.
It went reasonably well although it did take me most of the weekend.
I couldn't get the lead to hug the tiles as much as I'd like but I can
improve that later.

I'm please I went with the lead flashing and not the plastic bonding.
It cost £130 in the end, which included about £30 on tools so it
worked out much cheaper than £350 too.

Did you enjoy doing it?

--
*Life is hard; then you nap

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Wrote:
I did the job last weekend. Thanks for all the advice.
It went reasonably well although it did take me most of the weekend.
I couldn't get the lead to hug the tiles as much as I'd like but I can
improve that later.

I'm please I went with the lead flashing and not the plastic bonding.
It cost £130 in the end, which included about £30 on tools so it
worked out much cheaper than £350 too.

thanks
Thomas

The lead will naturally "sag" onto the tiles so just leave well alone
now, sods law says if you go back up you'll break a tile or fall and
break your neck !


--
Nick H