Is it really true that no one except a corgi can touch gas? i thought
competent people could install gas too?

steve

Is it really true that no one except a corgi can touch gas? i thought
competent people could install gas too?

Competent CORGI installers yes

In message , Séan
Connolly writes
Is it really true that no one except a corgi can touch gas? i thought
competent people could install gas too?

Competent CORGI installers yes


Beeep! Wrong!

For doing your own gas work, indeed all that the law requires is that
the person be competent, as the OP says (though many people, including
my local plumbers merchant who I had an argument about with about it)

Quite what competent means in that situation is of course moot point,
much discussed here before.

However Corgi registration is required for doing paid for work.

--
Chris French

Competent CORGI installers yes


Beeep! Wrong!


Thats interesting, as its not how British Gas (or B&Q) would explain it to
you at all. (I'm not saying your wrong as you're clearly not!)

"chris French" wrote in message
...
In message , Séan
Connolly writes
Is it really true that no one except a corgi can touch gas? i thought
competent people could install gas too?

Competent CORGI installers yes


Beeep! Wrong!

For doing your own gas work, indeed all that the law requires is that the
person be competent, as the OP says (though many people, including my
local plumbers merchant who I had an argument about with about it)

Quite what competent means in that situation is of course moot point,
much discussed here before.

However Corgi registration is required for doing paid for work.

--
Chris French


Competent is easy - if you have done it correctly then you are competent, if
it's incorrect then you are incompetent. .and that also applies if you are
CORGI registered!!

In message , Séan
Connolly wrote
Is it really true that no one except a corgi can touch gas? i thought
competent people could install gas too?

Competent CORGI installers yes


The incompetent gas fitter on that program was CORGI registered!

The program also implied that no-one unless they were CORGI registered
could turn the gas off - presumably even if there were a gas leak.


--
Alan

Alan wrote:
In message , Séan
Connolly wrote

Is it really true that no one except a corgi can touch gas? i thought
competent people could install gas too?


Competent CORGI installers yes


The incompetent gas fitter on that program was CORGI registered!

The program also implied that no-one unless they were CORGI registered
could turn the gas off - presumably even if there were a gas leak.

Well, presumably if you weren't CORGI registered you wouldn't be
qualified to spot a gas leak anyway.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Richard Conway wrote:


Well, presumably if you weren't CORGI registered you wouldn't be
qualified to spot a gas leak anyway.

I guess that most people - CORGI registered or not - could tell the
difference between a house and a pile of rubble where the house *used* to
be! g
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Set Square wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Richard Conway wrote:


Well, presumably if you weren't CORGI registered you wouldn't be
qualified to spot a gas leak anyway.


I guess that most people - CORGI registered or not - could tell the
difference between a house and a pile of rubble where the house *used* to
be! g
Ah yes, but only the CORGI chap could put it down to a gas leak - to the
average man in the street it could have just fallen down (or would he
have to be a qualified builder to work that one out?)

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:31:15 +0100, "r.p.mcmurphy"
wrote:

Is it really true that no one except a corgi can touch gas? i thought
competent people could install gas too?

steve



The first requirement is that somebody doing gas fitting must be
competent.

The second requirement is that somebody doing so *for reward* must be
CORGI registered.


--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Is it really true that no one except a corgi can touch gas? i thought
competent people could install gas too?


If you are paid to do it, then you have to be CORGI registered. If you do it
yourself, or someone does it for free, then you/they have to be competent.

Kevin Brady wrote:
Is it really true that no one except a corgi can touch gas? i
thought competent people could install gas too?


If you are paid to do it, then you have to be CORGI registered. If
you do it yourself, or someone does it for free, then you/they have
to be competent.

If you do it FOR YOURSELF you need to be competant, but do not need to be
CORGI registered, if you do it 'for free' for someone else it is my
understanding that you are deemed to be working for reward - if your mate
buys you a pint for your trouble that's a reward... so you need to be CORGI
registered.

Comments?

Dave

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Kevin Brady wrote:
Is it really true that no one except a corgi can touch gas? i
thought competent people could install gas too?


If you are paid to do it, then you have to be CORGI registered. If
you do it yourself, or someone does it for free, then you/they have
to be competent.

If you do it FOR YOURSELF you need to be competant, but do not need to be
CORGI registered, if you do it 'for free' for someone else it is my
understanding that you are deemed to be working for reward - if your mate
buys you a pint for your trouble that's a reward... so you need to be
CORGI
registered.

Comments?

You are confusing competent (we all know what that means) and "competent".
In the eyes of the law you would have to demonstrate "competency", which
"they" generally take to mean being CORGI registered. The onus would be on
you, if not a CORGI, to prove you were "competent" (even if competent and IF
anyone asked of course!), which would involve showing you had lots of
experience, satisfied customers, years in trade etc., I suspect. No-one
would probably ask unless there was a problem. If there was a problem you
couldn't really say "I must have been competant as it's OK" IYSWIM.

Lets call a spade a spad - the intent of the law is to stop DIY gas work
(under the pretence this makes the world safer and to safeguard the
professional bodies). The interpretation of any grey areas in law would be
bound to have this slant.

If you are merely competent, do the job, and there are no problems and
no-one asks, then it's *probably* illegal (even if perfectly OK) but what
the eye doesn't see....

Bob Mannix

Bob Mannix wrote:

You are confusing competent (we all know what that means) and "competent".
In the eyes of the law you would have to demonstrate "competency", which
"they" generally take to mean being CORGI registered. The onus would be on

This seems to be one of those situations where there is no logal
definition as yet. Since primary legislation has not spelt out what
competancy is, it falls to the courts to make an interpretation. They
will only do this when there is a specifuc requirement to do so (i.e. as
a result of a case. As far as I am aware this has not happened yet.

So while you are correct that we know what it mens to be competant in a
technical sense, I am not convinced that *anyone* actually knows what
that means in a legal sense.

Currently the Health and Safety Executive explicitly acknowledge that
DIY gas work is legal.

See http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/change.pdf page 50 :

One of the consultation questions they asked was :

"Should DIY work be legally prohibited, eg by restricting the sale of
gas equipment to registered gas installers?"

Part of the conclusion was:

"We understand concern about the possible risks posed by incompetent DIY
gas work, but believe at present there is insufficient hard evidence of
incidents to support the introduction of a legal ban."

Even if you look at the more public facing
http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/faqownerocc.htm#5

You get the evasive non answer:

"Q. Is it legal to do DIY on appliances and/or flues ?

A. A competent person must carry out all work on gas appliances. It is
always safer to use CORGI registered gas installers to carry out any gas
work. Any employer or self-employed person, for example, a landlord, who
carries out gas work must be CORGI registered."

you, if not a CORGI, to prove you were "competent" (even if competent and IF
anyone asked of course!), which would involve showing you had lots of
experience, satisfied customers, years in trade etc., I suspect. No-one
would probably ask unless there was a problem. If there was a problem you
couldn't really say "I must have been competant as it's OK" IYSWIM.

Depends on why it went wrong I expect. However if you actually *are*
competent then it ought not go wrong as a result of any acton under your
control.

Lets call a spade a spad - the intent of the law is to stop DIY gas work
(under the pretence this makes the world safer and to safeguard the
professional bodies). The interpretation of any grey areas in law would be
bound to have this slant.

If you are merely competent, do the job, and there are no problems and
no-one asks, then it's *probably* illegal (even if perfectly OK) but
what the eye doesn't see....

I would say the law is clear that it is *not* illegal, so that can not
be the intent of the law. The HSE also make it clear that they do not
currently support the idea of making it illegal. However, there is
obviously a strong desire to discourage DIY gas work. One way that this
is done is by allowing many to believe that it is illegal.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Bob Mannix wrote:

You are confusing competent (we all know what that means) and
"competent". In the eyes of the law you would have to demonstrate
"competency", which "they" generally take to mean being CORGI registered.
The onus would be on

This seems to be one of those situations where there is no logal
definition as yet. Since primary legislation has not spelt out what
competancy is, it falls to the courts to make an interpretation. They will
only do this when there is a specifuc requirement to do so (i.e. as a
result of a case. As far as I am aware this has not happened yet.

So while you are correct that we know what it mens to be competant in a
technical sense, I am not convinced that *anyone* actually knows what that
means in a legal sense.

I agree with you both here and the snipped bit further down. It is the case
(as you say) that legal precedent, which will define the law in detail, is
yet to be set. My point was that I bet (if you like) that the covert intent
is to discourage DIY and that, given that, when legal rulings are handed
down, they will slant that way. You are right that it isn't and cannot be
said to be definitely illegal to DIY gas work unless CORGI registered *yet*
as the law has not been refined. I suspect (and said) that it will
*probably* turn out to be illegal.

The unfortunate thing is that it will be (in the end) DIY work that was
neither competent or "competent" and which causes death or injury (ar, at
best, significant damage) that will trigger the legal ruling. This too will
slant the outcome. No-one is going to take a competent person to court for
doing a proper job even if they aren't "competent", I suspect!

Bob

John Rumm wrote:
So while you are correct that we know what it mens to be competant in a
technical sense, I am not convinced that *anyone* actually knows what
that means in a legal sense.

It was mentioned earlier. If you do the work, and it's fine,
you're competent. If it is not OK, you are by definition
not competent. This (competency) id referred to in all sorts
of regulations, not just for gas work.

You are confusing competent (we all know what that means) and "competent".
In the eyes of the law you would have to demonstrate "competency", which
"they" generally take to mean being CORGI registered. The onus would be on
you, if not a CORGI, to prove you were "competent" (even if competent and
IF
anyone asked of course!), which would involve showing you had lots of
experience, satisfied customers, years in trade etc.,

I don't think they would be quite so strict.

The fact that the law only defines "competent" to mean "CORGI" for paid work
means that you can infer that the intent was not to define "competent" to
mean "CORGI" for own house DIY work. Otherwise, they would have simply
defined "competent" to mean "CORGI" for all work.

That is not to say that they would expect the highest levels of workmanship
and skill etc. You'd have to do the job just as well as a registered fitter.
No skimping on the leak testings, or not wrapping buried pipes or leaving
flux all over the place.

I regard myself as competent at most things, but I still wouldn't do gas
work myself (beyond connecting a bayonet), as I don't think I know about it
in enough detail.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
You are confusing competent (we all know what that means) and
"competent".
In the eyes of the law you would have to demonstrate "competency", which
"they" generally take to mean being CORGI registered. The onus would be
on
you, if not a CORGI, to prove you were "competent" (even if competent and
IF
anyone asked of course!), which would involve showing you had lots of
experience, satisfied customers, years in trade etc.,

I don't think they would be quite so strict.

The fact that the law only defines "competent" to mean "CORGI" for paid
work
means that you can infer that the intent was not to define "competent" to
mean "CORGI" for own house DIY work. Otherwise, they would have simply
defined "competent" to mean "CORGI" for all work.

That is not to say that they would expect the highest levels of
workmanship
and skill etc. You'd have to do the job just as well as a registered
fitter.
No skimping on the leak testings, or not wrapping buried pipes or leaving
flux all over the place.


But what you (and Chris Bacon) are implying is a Darwinian system which
encourages all to "have a go" because the only judgment on competency is
done AFTER the job (and, of course, most would imagine themselves to be
competent). The intent of the law is absolutely the opposite - to prevent
all from having a go so there are fewer accidents. This can only be achieved
by some system of ensuring competency is demonstrated a priori.

No, one cannot be certain of the meaning of the words yet but:

I am 100% certain the meaning of competenet person will, eventually, be
decided in court

I am 90% certain the reason for the court hearing will be because of
incompetency (biassing the judge against DIY)

I am 70% certain the judge (taking the above and the intent of the law into
account) will come down against DIY and pro CORGI, making competency almost
impossible to demonstrate outside CORGI.

Of course, that leaves a 30% chance he won't. We will, I am sure, all found
out some time!

Bob Mannix

Christian McArdle wrote:
The fact that the law only defines "competent" to mean "CORGI" for paid work
means that you can infer that the intent was not to define "competent" to
mean "CORGI" for own house DIY work. Otherwise, they would have simply
defined "competent" to mean "CORGI" for all work.

But being a CORGI does *not* mean you are immune from
prosecution! You have to take tests to be a CORGI -
which lets you in to that organisation. If you at
ant time make a mistake, you were not competent by
definition, and can be prosecuted, not just be
expelled from CORGI. People are making a mountain
out of a molehill here.

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Kevin Brady wrote:
Is it really true that no one except a corgi can touch gas? i
thought competent people could install gas too?


If you are paid to do it, then you have to be CORGI registered. If
you do it yourself, or someone does it for free, then you/they have
to be competent.

If you do it FOR YOURSELF you need to be competant, but do not need to be
CORGI registered, if you do it 'for free' for someone else it is my
understanding that you are deemed to be working for reward - if your mate
buys you a pint for your trouble that's a reward... so you need to be
CORGI
registered.

Not forgetting the case where, like my mates, the kitchen extension builders
fitted all the cooker gas pipes back to meter cupboard, BUT the system was
tested and commisioned by a Corgi registered fitter.

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:18:49 +0000 (UTC), "Kevin Brady"
wrote:


Is it really true that no one except a corgi can touch gas? i thought
competent people could install gas too?


If you are paid to do it, then you have to be CORGI registered. If you do it
yourself, or someone does it for free, then you/they have to be competent.

Unlike the sgns in B&Q which state that ANY gas work must be done by
a CORGI-registered person.

--
Frank Erskine

"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:18:49 +0000 (UTC), "Kevin Brady"
wrote:


Is it really true that no one except a corgi can touch gas? i thought
competent people could install gas too?


If you are paid to do it, then you have to be CORGI registered. If you do
it
yourself, or someone does it for free, then you/they have to be competent.

Unlike the sgns in B&Q which state that ANY gas work must be done by
a CORGI-registered person.

But they don't ask to see your certification, even if you're an old woman
buying stuff.

Mary

--
Frank Erskine

In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:
Unlike the sgns in B&Q which state that ANY gas work must be done by
a CORGI-registered person.

But they don't ask to see your certification, even if you're an old
woman buying stuff.

Mary

I'd hazard a guess that any old woman buying gas type fittings in B&Q is
likely to be *very* competent. ;-)

--
*He who laughs last has just realised the joke.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:
Unlike the sgns in B&Q which state that ANY gas work must be done by
a CORGI-registered person.

But they don't ask to see your certification, even if you're an old
woman buying stuff.

Mary

I'd hazard a guess that any old woman buying gas type fittings in B&Q is
likely to be *very* competent. ;-)

If she were she wouldn't be buying from B&Q ... :-)

Mary

Frank Erskine wrote:

|| Unlike the sgns in B&Q which state that ANY gas work must be done by
|| a CORGI-registered person.

It's actually worse than that Frank. I bought a quick release cooker hose
and a roll of gas tape in B&Q. Both of the packages clearly stated that it
was "illegal to fit or use the product unless CORGI registered, therefore no
instructions are given".

So even if you are competant, any instructions that might make you even more
competant have been removed.

So how come they are still selling them then?

Dave

It's actually worse than that Frank. I bought a quick release cooker hose
and a roll of gas tape in B&Q. Both of the packages clearly stated that
it
was "illegal to fit or use the product unless CORGI registered, therefore
no
instructions are given".

They're just covering their arses in case you mess up.

Christian.

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:35:05 GMT, "david lang"
wrote:

Frank Erskine wrote:

|| Unlike the sgns in B&Q which state that ANY gas work must be done by
|| a CORGI-registered person.

It's actually worse than that Frank. I bought a quick release cooker hose
and a roll of gas tape in B&Q. Both of the packages clearly stated that it
was "illegal to fit or use the product unless CORGI registered, therefore no
instructions are given".

So even if you are competant, any instructions that might make you even more
competant have been removed.

So how come they are still selling them then?

Bizarrely, if you were to buy all the bits for altering the installation
for a dual fuel cooker - say a quick release hose, a cooker switch and
an cooker outlet, the gas parts would tell you (wrongly) that it is
illegal to fit them, but the electricity would say nothing (even though
it is (FSVO "illegal").
--
On-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk

(Waterways World site of the month, April 2001)

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:31:15 +0100, "r.p.mcmurphy"
wrote:

Is it really true that no one except a corgi can touch gas? i thought
competent people could install gas too?

steve

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corgi

http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html

Mr F.

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:31:15 +0100, "r.p.mcmurphy"
wrote:

Is it really true that no one except a corgi can touch gas? i thought
competent people could install gas too?

Competent non corgi people *can* install gas but not for reward.

sponix

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:31:15 +0100, r.p.mcmurphy wrote:

Is it really true that no one except a corgi can touch gas?
Yes, for money or money's worth.

i thought
competent people could install gas too?

Should the matter of competence ever get tested in court then the
prosecution will argue that it would add up to the same requirement as
are needed to gain CORGI membership. The defence might take the line that
it meant new what you were doing and put it into practice as far as the
specific job was involved.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

Ed Sirett wrote:

|| Should the matter of competence ever get tested in court then the
|| prosecution will argue that it would add up to the same requirement
|| as are needed to gain CORGI membership. The defence might take the
|| line that it meant new what you were doing and put it into practice
|| as far as the specific job was involved.

So, I've spent 30 years selling/installing/mending industrial hot/steam high
pressure cleaners. These things have diesel fired boilers of 55,000 btu +,
get up to 155 centigrade @20 litres/minute and water pressure up to 200 bar.

Would I be judged competant to install a gas cooker? According to Curry's
I'm not & have to pay a CORGI guy £85+VAT to twist a hose.

Dave

david lang wrote:

Ed Sirett wrote:

|| Should the matter of competence ever get tested in court then the
|| prosecution will argue that it would add up to the same requirement
|| as are needed to gain CORGI membership. The defence might take the
|| line that it meant new what you were doing and put it into practice
|| as far as the specific job was involved.

So, I've spent 30 years selling/installing/mending industrial hot/steam
high
pressure cleaners. These things have diesel fired boilers of 55,000 btu
+, get up to 155 centigrade @20 litres/minute and water pressure up to 200
bar.

Would I be judged competant to install a gas cooker? According to Curry's
I'm not & have to pay a CORGI guy £85+VAT to twist a hose.

You might be competent to handle high explosives, liquid oxygen, HF and
smallpox but still not know the ventilation, siting and other requirements
for installing a gas cooker.

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 22:50:22 +0000, david lang wrote:

Ed Sirett wrote:

|| Should the matter of competence ever get tested in court then the
|| prosecution will argue that it would add up to the same requirement
|| as are needed to gain CORGI membership. The defence might take the
|| line that it meant new what you were doing and put it into practice
|| as far as the specific job was involved.

So, I've spent 30 years selling/installing/mending industrial hot/steam high
pressure cleaners. These things have diesel fired boilers of 55,000 btu +,
get up to 155 centigrade @20 litres/minute and water pressure up to 200 bar.

Would I be judged competant to install a gas cooker? According to Curry's
I'm not & have to pay a CORGI guy £85+VAT to twist a hose.

[Note to self: Going rate is higher that I thought, must put prices up.]

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"david lang" wrote:

These things have diesel fired boilers of 55,000 btu +,
get up to 155 centigrade @20 litres/minute and water pressure up to 200 bar.

Can we please declare this the new shower standard Dribble has to beat
with his Outdoor Mounted Shanty Town Jap Combi's ?

By eck lass shower were so good it tore off all me skin and flushed me
down plughole.

:-)


--

In message ,
r.p.mcmurphy writes
Is it really true that no one except a corgi can touch gas? i thought
competent people could install gas too?

I've pointed out this error on a previous series

They don't take any notice - they're not interested
--
geoff