If a cheque I paid someone for goods was banked, on a Saturday morning in
one of the main name banks in the UK, when should it have cleared by
enabling the goods to be sent?

I am trying to find why the goods have not been received,

Thanks, Mick.

In article , "Mick"
says...
If a cheque I paid someone for goods was banked, on a Saturday morning in
one of the main name banks in the UK, when should it have cleared by
enabling the goods to be sent?

I am trying to find why the goods have not been received,

Have you tried asking the person who was supposed to send them?

On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 08:23:39 +0100, "Mick"
wrote:

If a cheque I paid someone for goods was banked, on a Saturday morning in
one of the main name banks in the UK, when should it have cleared by
enabling the goods to be sent?

I am trying to find why the goods have not been received,

Thanks, Mick.

According to how the banks say that the system works, it would be the
following Wednesday or Thursday. They claim three working days for
cheque clearance. However, Saturday is not really a working day and
IIRC, business from it goes into Monday's business for counting and
processing purposes.

This of course is a total rip off. The money disappears from your
account immediately but does not appear on the recipient's account
until the three days are up. In the meantime, the bank makes margin
on it.

I hardly use cheques at all and in general avoid dealing with people
who insist on them. It's much easier and cheaper to do a BACS
transfer, and most people will accept payments this way. I guess I
use 1-2 cheques a year, where there is no alternative. Even so,
there is still a bank rip off, and the money still takes three working
days to be "cleared". This is an even bigger rip-off, because of
course it is really done in seconds.

In general, it is much better to pay by credit card, even if you don't
want to run a credit card balance (which is unwise anyway). If you
are spending over £100 on a UK transaction, it gives you protection
with the supplier, in that the card company is on the hook if there
are issues with supply or product. I've also used it as a price
negotiating point. Ask the supplier if they accept credit card. If
they do, ask for a 3% discount for non-CC payment, or 6% if they take
Amex. It's surprising how many will go for this.


--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

It also depends on who you have your bank account with. If it's one of
the clearing banks (lloyds, Barclays, RBS, BOS, or HSBC), then it's 3
working days. Any of the other, will first have to send the cheque to
the clearing bank (allow another 2-3 days), then wait for it to clear (3
days), then wait for the funds to be sent back to them (2-3 days).

Paying bay card/BACS/debit card certainly makes sense when this is
considered...

Andy Hall wrote:
On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 08:23:39 +0100, "Mick"
wrote:


If a cheque I paid someone for goods was banked, on a Saturday morning in
one of the main name banks in the UK, when should it have cleared by
enabling the goods to be sent?

I am trying to find why the goods have not been received,

Thanks, Mick.


According to how the banks say that the system works, it would be the
following Wednesday or Thursday. They claim three working days for
cheque clearance. However, Saturday is not really a working day and
IIRC, business from it goes into Monday's business for counting and
processing purposes.

This of course is a total rip off. The money disappears from your
account immediately but does not appear on the recipient's account
until the three days are up. In the meantime, the bank makes margin
on it.

I hardly use cheques at all and in general avoid dealing with people
who insist on them. It's much easier and cheaper to do a BACS
transfer, and most people will accept payments this way. I guess I
use 1-2 cheques a year, where there is no alternative. Even so,
there is still a bank rip off, and the money still takes three working
days to be "cleared". This is an even bigger rip-off, because of
course it is really done in seconds.

In general, it is much better to pay by credit card, even if you don't
want to run a credit card balance (which is unwise anyway). If you
are spending over £100 on a UK transaction, it gives you protection
with the supplier, in that the card company is on the hook if there
are issues with supply or product. I've also used it as a price
negotiating point. Ask the supplier if they accept credit card. If
they do, ask for a 3% discount for non-CC payment, or 6% if they take
Amex. It's surprising how many will go for this.

In message , Mick
wrote
If a cheque I paid someone for goods was banked, on a Saturday morning in
one of the main name banks in the UK, when should it have cleared by
enabling the goods to be sent?

I am trying to find why the goods have not been received,


In my experience, at least 5 working days. Taking weekends into account
the recipient of the cheque may not see it cleared until the Monday, 9
days after you paid.

--
Alan

In article ,
Andy Hall writes:
On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 08:23:39 +0100, "Mick"
wrote:

If a cheque I paid someone for goods was banked, on a Saturday morning in
one of the main name banks in the UK, when should it have cleared by
enabling the goods to be sent?

I am trying to find why the goods have not been received,

According to how the banks say that the system works, it would be the
following Wednesday or Thursday. They claim three working days for
cheque clearance. However, Saturday is not really a working day and
IIRC, business from it goes into Monday's business for counting and
processing purposes.

There is no longer any irrevocable cheque clearance date.
This came up on Radio 4's Moneybox a few months back.
If the funds on which the cheque was drawn turn out to be
stolen, fraudulent, laundered, or whatever, you can find
the cheque being bounced 6 months later, and people have.
This makes cheques pretty useless nowadays.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 08:23:39 +0100, "Mick"
wrote:

If a cheque I paid someone for goods was banked, on a Saturday morning in
one of the main name banks in the UK, when should it have cleared by
enabling the goods to be sent?

I am trying to find why the goods have not been received,

Thanks, Mick.




Threee clear business days, unless thay pay the 10 quid special
processing fee.



Rick

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 09:07:16 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 08:23:39 +0100, "Mick"
wrote:

If a cheque I paid someone for goods was banked, on a Saturday morning in
one of the main name banks in the UK, when should it have cleared by
enabling the goods to be sent?

I am trying to find why the goods have not been received,

Thanks, Mick.

According to how the banks say that the system works, it would be the
following Wednesday or Thursday. They claim three working days for
cheque clearance. However, Saturday is not really a working day and
IIRC, business from it goes into Monday's business for counting and
processing purposes.

Saturday is also not a working day as far as cheque clearance (and a
lot of other banking business) is concerned

This of course is a total rip off. The money disappears from your
account immediately but does not appear on the recipient's account
until the three days are up. In the meantime, the bank makes margin
on it.

There are sound reasons for the money disappearing from your account
immediately and not appearing (well at least for a day or two) in the
recipient's account. It's to do with the risk of a fraudster writing
multiple cheques when they've only got enough funds to cover one and
the time it takes to get the physical cheque from the recipient's
branch to your branch.

The fact that it makes a bit of money for the bank is nice for them
but doesn't cover the cost of processing the cheque.

I hardly use cheques at all and in general avoid dealing with people
who insist on them. It's much easier and cheaper to do a BACS
transfer, and most people will accept payments this way. I guess I
use 1-2 cheques a year, where there is no alternative. Even so,
there is still a bank rip off, and the money still takes three working
days to be "cleared". This is an even bigger rip-off, because of
course it is really done in seconds.

Which bank do you use ? I've never had an electronic payment (from one
clearing bank to another) result in anything but a credit to the
recipient on the same day as the money disappears from my account.

In general, it is much better to pay by credit card, even if you don't
want to run a credit card balance (which is unwise anyway). If you
are spending over £100 on a UK transaction, it gives you protection
with the supplier, in that the card company is on the hook if there
are issues with supply or product.

Agreed

I've also used it as a price
negotiating point. Ask the supplier if they accept credit card. If
they do, ask for a 3% discount for non-CC payment, or 6% if they take
Amex. It's surprising how many will go for this.

Cheers,

John

John Anderton wrote:
This of course is a total rip off. The money disappears from your
account immediately but does not appear on the recipient's account
until the three days are up. In the meantime, the bank makes margin
on it.

There are sound reasons for the money disappearing from your account
immediately and not appearing (well at least for a day or two) in the
recipient's account. It's to do with the risk of a fraudster writing
multiple cheques when they've only got enough funds to cover one and
the time it takes to get the physical cheque from the recipient's
branch to your branch.

The fact that it makes a bit of money for the bank is nice for them but
doesn't cover the cost of processing the cheque.

Those *were* sound reasons... but now the banks are reserving the right
to repudiate a cheque at any later time, even after it has been
"cleared".

That means the banks still get the interest, but now they bear none of
the risk either; while the customer suffers the delay in cash-flow and
now bears all of the risk. The banks shouldn't be allowed to have it
both ways.


--
Ian White

On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 12:07:46 +0100, Ian White
wrote:

That means the banks still get the interest, but now they bear none of
the risk either; while the customer suffers the delay in cash-flow and
now bears all of the risk. The banks shouldn't be allowed to have it
both ways.

OTOH personal customers no longer pay for cheque clearing services
and, in fact, get the convenience of using all the banking services
for free.

It's "swings and roundabouts" really,

Cheers,

John

In article ,
John Anderton writes:

Which bank do you use ? I've never had an electronic payment (from one
clearing bank to another) result in anything but a credit to the
recipient on the same day as the money disappears from my account.

Depends on the bank and the circumstances.
Barclays does same day between its own accounts. However, they
have recently had to add delays in some cases because of increasing
electronic banking fraud. IIRC, this is typically triggered by
transfers into accounts which are not known to be routinely used
for payments. The object is to prevent transfered money becoming
quickly untracable (e.g. being cashed) before the transfer can be
investigated and found to be fraudulent. Again, this was covered
on Radio 4's Money Programme a month or two back.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Mick wrote:
If a cheque I paid someone for goods was banked, on a Saturday
morning in one of the main name banks in the UK, when should it have
cleared by enabling the goods to be sent?

I am trying to find why the goods have not been received,

Thanks, Mick.

As far as i'm aware, banks are not open on a saturday?
So I would imagine they would put it in on Monday and have a clearence
between 3 to 7 working days.

As far as i'm aware, banks are not open on a saturday?
So I would imagine they would put it in on Monday and have a clearence
between 3 to 7 working days.

You can payin to LloydsTSB on a Saturday.

Dave

dave stanton wrote:
As far as i'm aware, banks are not open on a saturday?
So I would imagine they would put it in on Monday and have a
clearence between 3 to 7 working days.

You can payin to LloydsTSB on a Saturday.

Dave

Not in my town you cant, and I am with Lloyds TSB.

On 07 Aug 2005, Mick wrote

If a cheque I paid someone for goods was banked, on a Saturday
morning in one of the main name banks in the UK, when should it
have cleared by enabling the goods to be sent?

I am trying to find why the goods have not been received,

AIUI, the usual system is that it would be logged in to their account
by the bank on Monday (the first available banking day); travel
overnight to the Bankers' Clearing House and be dealt with on Tuesday;
be sent for clearance to your bank on Wednesday; and fully confirmed
by his bank as not having bounced on Thursday.

(That is, if your bank had bounced the cheque, the BCH would have been
notified by the Wednesday night transfer, and the bounce would have
been registered by his bank on Thursday.)

--
Cheers,
Harvey

In message , John Anderton
wrote

Which bank do you use ? I've never had an electronic payment (from one
clearing bank to another) result in anything but a credit to the
recipient on the same day as the money disappears from my account.

An electronic payment from a Royal Bank of Scotland account to any other
bank takes at least 3 working days for the funds to appear in the
receiving account.

The money leaves the account the second that the transfer button is
pressed.

--
Alan

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:30:31 GMT, John Anderton
wrote:

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 09:07:16 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 08:23:39 +0100, "Mick"
wrote:

If a cheque I paid someone for goods was banked, on a Saturday morning in
one of the main name banks in the UK, when should it have cleared by
enabling the goods to be sent?



Which bank do you use ? I've never had an electronic payment (from one
clearing bank to another) result in anything but a credit to the
recipient on the same day as the money disappears from my account.

I have accounts with four banks (NatWest, Barclays, HSBC, Lloyds) and
movement between any of them has this effect.


In general, it is much better to pay by credit card, even if you don't
want to run a credit card balance (which is unwise anyway). If you
are spending over £100 on a UK transaction, it gives you protection
with the supplier, in that the card company is on the hook if there
are issues with supply or product.

Agreed

I've also used it as a price
negotiating point. Ask the supplier if they accept credit card. If
they do, ask for a 3% discount for non-CC payment, or 6% if they take
Amex. It's surprising how many will go for this.

Cheers,

John

--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 12:41:41 +0100, dave stanton
wrote:


As far as i'm aware, banks are not open on a saturday?
So I would imagine they would put it in on Monday and have a clearence
between 3 to 7 working days.

You can payin to LloydsTSB on a Saturday.

Dave

This may be true, but the first "processing day" is Monday.

Same as if you pay in after 3:30, its processed the next working day.

Rick

In message , Mick
writes
If a cheque I paid someone for goods was banked, on a Saturday morning in
one of the main name banks in the UK, when should it have cleared by
enabling the goods to be sent?

I am trying to find why the goods have not been received,

Saturday is Monday as far as the banks are concerned

clearing takes 3-5 days, although, as has become apparent recently (e.g.
Western union), a cheque never actually clears and can be stopped
whenever

--
geoff

In message , ben
writes
Mick wrote:
If a cheque I paid someone for goods was banked, on a Saturday
morning in one of the main name banks in the UK, when should it have
cleared by enabling the goods to be sent?

I am trying to find why the goods have not been received,

Thanks, Mick.

As far as i'm aware, banks are not open on a saturday?

Mine is, until 4 pm

But any transactions performed on a Saturday isn't entered until the
following Monday

So I would imagine they would put it in on Monday and have a clearence
between 3 to 7 working days.



--
geoff

In message , ben
writes
dave stanton wrote:
As far as i'm aware, banks are not open on a saturday?
So I would imagine they would put it in on Monday and have a
clearence between 3 to 7 working days.

You can payin to LloydsTSB on a Saturday.

Dave

Not in my town you cant, and I am with Lloyds TSB.

Where's that then ?

--
geoff

In message , Rick
writes
On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 12:41:41 +0100, dave stanton
wrote:


As far as i'm aware, banks are not open on a saturday?
So I would imagine they would put it in on Monday and have a clearence
between 3 to 7 working days.

You can payin to LloydsTSB on a Saturday.

Dave

This may be true, but the first "processing day" is Monday.

Same as if you pay in after 3:30, its processed the next working day.

4 pm for me

--
geoff

On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 11:41:41 UTC, dave stanton wrote:


As far as i'm aware, banks are not open on a saturday?
So I would imagine they would put it in on Monday and have a clearence
between 3 to 7 working days.

You can payin to LloydsTSB on a Saturday.

Even then, it won't be processed until the Monday.

raden wrote:
In message , ben
writes
Mick wrote:
If a cheque I paid someone for goods was banked, on a Saturday
morning in one of the main name banks in the UK, when should it have
cleared by enabling the goods to be sent?

I am trying to find why the goods have not been received,

Thanks, Mick.

As far as i'm aware, banks are not open on a saturday?

Mine is, until 4 pm

What part of england are you situated?

But any transactions performed on a Saturday isn't entered until the
following Monday

So I would imagine they would put it in on Monday and have a
clearence between 3 to 7 working days.

'Clearance',sweetie. :-P

So really all you might of have gained in putting a cheque in the bank on a
saturday is a couple of hours.

In message , ben
writes
raden wrote:
In message , ben
writes
Mick wrote:
If a cheque I paid someone for goods was banked, on a Saturday
morning in one of the main name banks in the UK, when should it have
cleared by enabling the goods to be sent?

I am trying to find why the goods have not been received,

Thanks, Mick.

As far as i'm aware, banks are not open on a saturday?

Mine is, until 4 pm

What part of england are you situated?

Watford


But any transactions performed on a Saturday isn't entered until the
following Monday

So I would imagine they would put it in on Monday and have a
clearence between 3 to 7 working days.

'Clearance',sweetie. :-P

Don't look at me


So really all you might of have gained in putting a cheque in the bank on a
saturday is a couple of hours.

Saturday opening is really more for happy shoppers and people who have
difficulty getting to the bank during the week

nothing gained in clearing time

--
geoff

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
There is no longer any irrevocable cheque clearance date.
This came up on Radio 4's Moneybox a few months back.
If the funds on which the cheque was drawn turn out to be
stolen, fraudulent, laundered, or whatever, you can find
the cheque being bounced 6 months later, and people have.
This makes cheques pretty useless nowadays.

It seems to me total madness that a bank can clear a cheque - their job
after all to make sure it's not a forgery, etc, then take back the money
at a later date. Their recovery of any loss should be from the person who
issued the cheque.

--
*If a turtle doesn't have a shell, is he homeless or naked?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
John Anderton wrote:
There are sound reasons for the money disappearing from your account
immediately and not appearing (well at least for a day or two) in the
recipient's account. It's to do with the risk of a fraudster writing
multiple cheques when they've only got enough funds to cover one and
the time it takes to get the physical cheque from the recipient's
branch to your branch.

A letter posted first class here in London will get to Aberdeen the next
day. I can order goods from RS before 5pm and have then delivered before
noon the next day. Three clear working days after issue is taking the p**s
in this day and age. And multiple cheques isn't an issue. It would assume
everyone pays them in immediately.

--


Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
John Anderton wrote:
That means the banks still get the interest, but now they bear none of
the risk either; while the customer suffers the delay in cash-flow and
now bears all of the risk. The banks shouldn't be allowed to have it
both ways.

OTOH personal customers no longer pay for cheque clearing services
and, in fact, get the convenience of using all the banking services
for free.

Only if you stay in credit. And most will have their salaries paid direct
every month, so the bank has the use of much of that money for some time.

--
*If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Barclays does same day between its own accounts. However, they
have recently had to add delays in some cases because of increasing
electronic banking fraud. IIRC, this is typically triggered by
transfers into accounts which are not known to be routinely used
for payments. The object is to prevent transfered money becoming
quickly untracable (e.g. being cashed) before the transfer can be
investigated and found to be fraudulent.

I recently wanted to buy some relatively low cost electronics from Sweden.
The firm was small, and didn't take credit cards.
Not possible to do an electronic transfer from Barclays, and a cheque
would have been too costly. I eventually sent cash in the form of Euros.
So much for progress.

--
*If only you'd use your powers for good instead of evil.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
John Anderton wrote:
There are sound reasons for the money disappearing from your account
immediately and not appearing (well at least for a day or two) in the
recipient's account. It's to do with the risk of a fraudster writing
multiple cheques when they've only got enough funds to cover one and
the time it takes to get the physical cheque from the recipient's
branch to your branch.

A letter posted first class here in London will get to Aberdeen the
next day. I can order goods from RS before 5pm and have then
delivered before noon the next day. Three clear working days after
issue is taking the p**s in this day and age. And multiple cheques
isn't an issue. It would assume everyone pays them in immediately.

IIRC the Chancellor has given the banks a date recently to get this down to
24hrs. Think it's a couple of years away to give the banks time to get their
systems ready...

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 18:08:54 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Barclays does same day between its own accounts. However, they
have recently had to add delays in some cases because of increasing
electronic banking fraud. IIRC, this is typically triggered by
transfers into accounts which are not known to be routinely used
for payments. The object is to prevent transfered money becoming
quickly untracable (e.g. being cashed) before the transfer can be
investigated and found to be fraudulent.

I recently wanted to buy some relatively low cost electronics from Sweden.
The firm was small, and didn't take credit cards.
Not possible to do an electronic transfer from Barclays, and a cheque
would have been too costly. I eventually sent cash in the form of Euros.
So much for progress.


Euros? I am suprised that SEK wouldn't have been better.....

--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 09:27:29 +0100, Ian Cornish "icornish at talk21
dot com" wrote:

It also depends on who you have your bank account with. If it's one of
the clearing banks (lloyds, Barclays, RBS, BOS, or HSBC), then it's 3
working days.

It used to be, but it now seems Barclays take five working days.
Halifax is nine working days, i.e nearly a fortnight !!

I once paid cash into a branch of Natwest, to a Natwest client's
account at another branch. It took three days to show up in his
account. HSBC shows up the same day if done before 4pm.

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 18:02:30 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
John Anderton wrote:
There are sound reasons for the money disappearing from your account
immediately and not appearing (well at least for a day or two) in the
recipient's account. It's to do with the risk of a fraudster writing
multiple cheques when they've only got enough funds to cover one and
the time it takes to get the physical cheque from the recipient's
branch to your branch.

A letter posted first class here in London will get to Aberdeen the next
day. I can order goods from RS before 5pm and have then delivered before
noon the next day. Three clear working days after issue is taking the p**s
in this day and age.

Hence my comment about a day or two. It takes about that long to get
the cheques exchanged and scanned.

And multiple cheques isn't an issue. It would assume
everyone pays them in immediately.

It is an issue because such a situation typically involves two or more
banks (i.e. independent companies).

I've a feeling that many people think that "the banks" are some sort
of single entity so that, for example, Barclays has full knowledge and
control over all of NatWest's customers accounts and vice-versa.

If a fraudster writes lots of cheques on their NatWest account and
gives them to people who bank with several other banks then, once the
fraud has been discovered, NatWest will have to waste a substantial
amount of time and effort verifying the fraud and compensating the
other banks. This sort of thing isn't handled automatically because it
involves the transfer of money out of one company into another and the
proof of the fraud is held in several places (the cheques with the
other banks and the account balance with NatWest).

Computers and the internet have made banking much easier in some
respects but the back-end processing that goes on is still fairly
complicated, mainly for legal rather than practical reasons, which is
why comparing cheque clearing to first class post isn't really a fair
comparison,

Cheers,

John

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 16:47:50 GMT, raden wrote:



Saturday opening is really more for happy shoppers and people who have
difficulty getting to the bank during the week

nothing gained in clearing time

And, in fact, open bank branches, don't really mean that the bank is
"open". Almost all the back-end processing is done in large anonymous
office blocks, not in the branches scattered around the country, and,
guess what, the people who work there only work Mon-Fri,

Cheers,

John

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

There is no longer any irrevocable cheque clearance date.
This came up on Radio 4's Moneybox a few months back.
If the funds on which the cheque was drawn turn out to be
stolen, fraudulent, laundered, or whatever, you can find
the cheque being bounced 6 months later, and people have.
This makes cheques pretty useless nowadays.

That's because 'clear' is the wrong word if you want to know if a
cheque has been deposited irrevocably in your account.

I think you need to ask if the cheque has been 'paid' or something
like that. This has been discussed quite a lot in the uk.finance
newsgroup.

--
Chris Green