I have a large pile of wood outside that is hopefully going to become an
allotment shed, following the demise of my previous much loved item :
http://www.flashgorman.com/shed.jpg

Naturally being an allotment shed I want to build it for absolutely no money
at all and the wood I have is all scavenged FOC.

This policy has left me lacking some big fence post type bits of wood to
make up the four corners of the shed. I do have some thick timbers but they
are all three foot long, so what I want to do is join them together somewho
to make six foot posts.

Anyone know the best way to do this? All the joints I have seen are for
joining stuff at right angles.

Or maybe there is another way of doing it?

Cheers

"flash" wrote in message
...
I have a large pile of wood outside that is hopefully going to become an
allotment shed, following the demise of my previous much loved item :
http://www.flashgorman.com/shed.jpg

Naturally being an allotment shed I want to build it for absolutely no
money
at all and the wood I have is all scavenged FOC.

This policy has left me lacking some big fence post type bits of wood to
make up the four corners of the shed. I do have some thick timbers but
they
are all three foot long, so what I want to do is join them together
somewho
to make six foot posts.

Anyone know the best way to do this? All the joints I have seen are for
joining stuff at right angles.

Or maybe there is another way of doing it?

Cheers


Half and half joints would do this for you. Measure half the thickness of
the timber and mark it from end to about four inches in. Do the same with
another post. Cut down to half the thickness, then cut off from the end to
the cut down.

You should have two posts that will marry up to give a full thickness post
with a hidden joint. You can glue and screw through to make the join good
and strong.

Hi Flash
Anyone know the best way to do this? All the joints I have seen are for
joining stuff at right angles.

You could use either a scarf joint or a butt joint. Best pictures I could
find http://tinyurl.com/9d5bm

Scarf joint is neater & stronger, but harder to cut. Butt joint is simple,
albeit unsightly. Use plenty of PVA glue on either, water resistant one is
best.

Dave

flash wrote:
I have a large pile of wood outside that is hopefully going to become
an allotment shed, following the demise of my previous much loved
item : http://www.flashgorman.com/shed.jpg

Naturally being an allotment shed I want to build it for absolutely
no money at all and the wood I have is all scavenged FOC.

This policy has left me lacking some big fence post type bits of wood
to make up the four corners of the shed. I do have some thick timbers
but they are all three foot long, so what I want to do is join them
together somewho to make six foot posts.

Anyone know the best way to do this? All the joints I have seen are
for joining stuff at right angles.

Or maybe there is another way of doing it?

Cheers

Must admit when I first read your post I thought "ah scarf(ph) joints
are what he wants" but having read the poster that said butt joints will
work can see where s/he/it is coming from, would still go the scarf(ph)
route though.

--
yours S

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione

BigWallop wrote:
"flash"wrote...
I do have some thick timbers but they are all three foot long, so what I
want to do is join them together somewho to make six foot posts.

Half and half joints would do this for you.

What the hell's one of those? Do you smoke it? Do you mean a halving?
Perhaps you mean a lapped joint?

Measure half the thickness of
the timber and mark it from end to about four inches in. Do the same with
another post. Cut down to half the thickness, then cut off from the end to
the cut down.

You should have two posts that will marry up to give a full thickness post
with a hidden joint. You can glue and screw through to make the join good
and strong.

He'd probably be better off using simple joining plates. Put some
boards up against the butted-together posts, and lam in some nails,
or even screws, as it's an allotment shed. No joint cutting at all.

"soup" wrote in message
. uk...
flash wrote:
I have a large pile of wood outside that is hopefully going to become
an allotment shed, following the demise of my previous much loved
item : http://www.flashgorman.com/shed.jpg

Naturally being an allotment shed I want to build it for absolutely
no money at all and the wood I have is all scavenged FOC.

This policy has left me lacking some big fence post type bits of wood
to make up the four corners of the shed. I do have some thick timbers
but they are all three foot long, so what I want to do is join them
together somewho to make six foot posts.

Anyone know the best way to do this? All the joints I have seen are
for joining stuff at right angles.

Or maybe there is another way of doing it?

A slight improvement on the half-and-half joints mentioned ( IMHO ) is to
cut the two square faces ( actually they will be rectangular ) you will have
on each joint as 45 degree chamfers, sloped in such a way that if you hold
the two pieces of wood together and then try and bend them at the joint, the
chamfers themselves resist the joint bending. Then glue and screw, using
cramps. It is difficult to describe, and
ASCII ART NEVER WORKS WITH FIXED WIDTH FONTS, BUT.....

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Andy

In message , andrewpreece
writes
ASCII ART NEVER WORKS WITH FIXED WIDTH FONTS, BUT.....

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You're not wrong there

--
geoff

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 16:29:57 +0100, "flash" wrote:

I do have some thick timbers but they
are all three foot long, so what I want to do is join them together somewho
to make six foot posts.

Personally I'd find some new timber, long enough. The joints are too
much trouble.

Obviously you're hard-pressed to get six foot from two three footers,
unless you use a butt. That's not a bad way to do it, if you use steel
plates bolted on from either side.

A scarf is inappropriate for a vertical post. it will also lose the most
length. If you must, it needs to be a more symmetrical birdsmouth
(either halved or cornered) scarf, rather than a simple scarfed lap. You
could also use some form of stubbed scarf. None of these are easy to
cut.

Perhaps the best joint is another Japanese joint - jyuji mechigai tsugi
- the cross-shaped mortice and tenon. This is good from locating
verticals and it's also easy to cut. One face has a cross cut into it
by removing the four corners to leave a cross with arms about 1" wide
and 1" deep. The other is cut to leave four castellated areas with two
grooves between them.

"Andy Dingley" wrote;
A scarf is inappropriate for a vertical post. it will also lose the most
length.

Are we talking about different scarf joints? The ones I know don't lose any
length at all?

Dave

In article , "andrewpreece"
says...
snip
ASCII ART NEVER WORKS WITH FIXED WIDTH FONTS, BUT.....

ASCII art _only_ works with fixed width fonts.

"David Lang" wrote in message
...

Are we talking about different scarf joints? The ones I know don't lose
any length at all?

Sorry, I'm cracking up! I read your post as 'butt' joints lose length!!!

I'll get my coat...............

Dave

andrewpreece wrote:
ASCII ART NEVER WORKS WITH FIXED WIDTH FONTS, BUT.....

Yes it does. You've got fixed and "the other one" the
wrong way around.

ASCII ART NEVER WORKS WITH FIXED WIDTH FONTS, BUT.....

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Andy


I have images of poor flash making a right pigs ear of his shed trying
to follow that!

Andy Dingley wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 16:29:57 +0100, "flash"
wrote:

I do have some thick timbers but they
are all three foot long, so what I want to do is join them together
somewho to make six foot posts.

Personally I'd find some new timber, long enough. The joints are too
much trouble.

Obviously you're hard-pressed to get six foot from two three footers,
unless you use a butt. That's not a bad way to do it, if you use steel
plates bolted on from either side.

A scarf is inappropriate for a vertical post. it will also lose the
most length. If you must, it needs to be a more symmetrical
birdsmouth (either halved or cornered) scarf, rather than a simple
scarfed lap. You could also use some form of stubbed scarf. None of
these are easy to cut.

Perhaps the best joint is another Japanese joint - jyuji mechigai
tsugi - the cross-shaped mortice and tenon. This is good from locating
verticals and it's also easy to cut. One face has a cross cut into it
by removing the four corners to leave a cross with arms about 1" wide
and 1" deep. The other is cut to leave four castellated areas with two
grooves between them.

Damn.

I saw a picture a while back on rec.woodworking of a Japanese temple pillar
done with a totally impossible dovetail butt joint cut in 16"+ timbers...

can't find it now :-(

I suspect it wouldn't be the sort of thing the OP was looking to do anyway
though ;-)

"BigWallop" wrote in message news:jk9De.73090


Half and half joints would do this for you. Measure half the thickness of
the timber and mark it from end to about four inches in. Do the same with
another post. Cut down to half the thickness, then cut off from the end
to
the cut down.

You should have two posts that will marry up to give a full thickness post
with a hidden joint. You can glue and screw through to make the join good
and strong.

Cheers. Have made a couple up and they seem nice and strong. Joints are not
extactly hidden due to lack of cutting skill but it'll all add to the
character of the shed.

"Richard Conway" wrote in message
...
ASCII ART NEVER WORKS WITH FIXED WIDTH FONTS, BUT.....



I have images of poor flash making a right pigs ear of his shed trying
to follow that!

Indeed. The first dash I tried to nail almost had me in a comma.

flash wrote:
"Richard Conway" wrote in message
...

ASCII ART NEVER WORKS WITH FIXED WIDTH FONTS, BUT.....




I have images of poor flash making a right pigs ear of his shed trying
to follow that!


Indeed. The first dash I tried to nail almost had me in a comma.


I slipped with the saw and got a slash through my colon

"flash" wrote in message
...

"BigWallop" wrote in message news:jk9De.73090


Half and half joints would do this for you. Measure half the thickness
of
the timber and mark it from end to about four inches in. Do the same
with
another post. Cut down to half the thickness, then cut off from the end
to
the cut down.

You should have two posts that will marry up to give a full thickness
post
with a hidden joint. You can glue and screw through to make the join
good
and strong.

Cheers. Have made a couple up and they seem nice and strong. Joints are
not
extactly hidden due to lack of cutting skill but it'll all add to the
character of the shed.


I never get them exact either. :-) LOL

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 10:36:29 GMT, "PC Paul" wrote:

I saw a picture a while back on rec.woodworking of a Japanese temple pillar
done with a totally impossible dovetail butt joint cut in 16"+ timbers...

Probably a shiho kama tsugi - the four-faced gooseneck joint. This has a
gooseneck tenon, but it appears to have one on each of the four sides.
Like most of these "impossible" joints to assemble, it's a diagonal
slide to assemble it.

It's not a particularly good joint, because it offers no location along
the 45° plane (that's how you assemble it). It's impressive though, so
it's largely a decorative feature.

In article , "Andy
Dingley" says...
On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 10:36:29 GMT, "PC Paul" wrote:

I saw a picture a while back on rec.woodworking of a Japanese temple pillar
done with a totally impossible dovetail butt joint cut in 16"+ timbers...

Probably a shiho kama tsugi - the four-faced gooseneck joint. This has a
gooseneck tenon, but it appears to have one on each of the four sides.
Like most of these "impossible" joints to assemble, it's a diagonal
slide to assemble it.

It's not a particularly good joint, because it offers no location along
the 45° plane

A large peg through the top would take care of that, surely?

Andy Dingley wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 10:36:29 GMT, "PC Paul" wrote:

I saw a picture a while back on rec.woodworking of a Japanese temple
pillar done with a totally impossible dovetail butt joint cut in
16"+ timbers...

Probably a shiho kama tsugi - the four-faced gooseneck joint. This
has a gooseneck tenon, but it appears to have one on each of the four
sides. Like most of these "impossible" joints to assemble, it's a
diagonal slide to assemble it.

It's not a particularly good joint, because it offers no location
along the 45° plane (that's how you assemble it). It's impressive
though, so it's largely a decorative feature.

I've made simple trick dovetails like that.

That shiho kama tsugi looks impressively difficult to do (by hand anyway),
but I don't think it was the one. The one I saw (shakes memory vault to stir
the dust) had bits sticking out all over the place including wedges at
strange angles.

I'm sure it was pointed to by a post from rec.ww but it would have been 7-8
years ago now!

"PC Paul" wrote in message
. uk...
Andy Dingley wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 10:36:29 GMT, "PC Paul" wrote:

I saw a picture a while back on rec.woodworking of a Japanese temple
pillar done with a totally impossible dovetail butt joint cut in
16"+ timbers...

Probably a shiho kama tsugi - the four-faced gooseneck joint. This
has a gooseneck tenon, but it appears to have one on each of the four
sides. Like most of these "impossible" joints to assemble, it's a
diagonal slide to assemble it.

It's not a particularly good joint, because it offers no location
along the 45° plane (that's how you assemble it). It's impressive
though, so it's largely a decorative feature.

I've made simple trick dovetails like that.

That shiho kama tsugi looks impressively difficult to do (by hand anyway),
but I don't think it was the one. The one I saw (shakes memory vault to
stir the dust) had bits sticking out all over the place including wedges
at strange angles.

I'm sure it was pointed to by a post from rec.ww but it would have been
7-8 years ago now!





lol
nice one

lol