Heres a good one for you !!

I was contacted last week by an artist in Kidderminster who wishes to modify
his artwork (stretched canvas paintings over a wooden frame) to include a
option to have them illuminated from behind.
He wishes the solution to be self-contained i.e. battery powered, and will
just work "out-of-the-box" so to speak.
After discussing in detail with him about the feasibility of this, he has
done some preliminary testing using mains powered light sources to create
the effect he is looking for. He is using some sort of polycarbonate sheet
on the rear of the canvas to diffuse the light over the entire rear surface
so the position of the light source is not critical. He requires the light
source to be turned on/off via a small pull cord drilled through the centre
of the frame bottom so that the painting may me turned on/off without
removing it from the wall and without disturbing the hang hence the central
position for the pull cord. Naturally he would like the solution to be as
economical as possible. The intended donor paintings are approx 18-24"
square using a frame thickness of 2".
The only thing I can come up with so far is a battery powerd 12" mini
fluorescent T8 Tube at 8W modified to use a pull cord.
Does anyone have any solutions that are financially viable for a painting
that may retail for £50-60 ?
Can anyone think of a rechargable solution possibly using solar power
through the daytime to trickle charge the batteries for use at evenings ?

Help !!!!

--
Ellis Greensitt, Site-Admin, UK Electrician's Forum
http://supplychain.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

Ellis Greensitt wrote:
Heres a good one for you !!

I was contacted last week by an artist in Kidderminster who wishes to modify
his artwork (stretched canvas paintings over a wooden frame) to include a
option to have them illuminated from behind.
He wishes the solution to be self-contained i.e. battery powered, and will
just work "out-of-the-box" so to speak.

It's almost certain that this is impossible - a similar question was asked
over on sci.engr.lighting.

Batteries will at best give weeks of service, if thousands of pounds are
spent on them, and even exotica (tritium powered lights) are very dim.
If he wants it to run for a few hours, that's possible.
Every night for a year, impossible.
In very few cases will solar be an option.
Only if the painting is in direct sun for several hours a day, and the
solar panel attached to it similarly.
And even then, if it's cloudy, it's going to go out.

Specifications.
How long does it need lit for?
How bright?
Can the artist get to it to charge/replace batteries?
Is it for a sold work?
For all but "a couple of hours, dimly", the vastly cheapest, and often only
possible answer is going to be a wall-wart.

LEDs would use less battery power and create less heat, but may cost too
much for initial outlay.

"Ellis Greensitt" wrote in message
...
Heres a good one for you !!

I was contacted last week by an artist in Kidderminster who wishes to
modify
his artwork (stretched canvas paintings over a wooden frame) to include a
option to have them illuminated from behind.
He wishes the solution to be self-contained i.e. battery powered, and will
just work "out-of-the-box" so to speak.
After discussing in detail with him about the feasibility of this, he has
done some preliminary testing using mains powered light sources to create
the effect he is looking for. He is using some sort of polycarbonate sheet
on the rear of the canvas to diffuse the light over the entire rear
surface
so the position of the light source is not critical. He requires the light
source to be turned on/off via a small pull cord drilled through the
centre
of the frame bottom so that the painting may me turned on/off without
removing it from the wall and without disturbing the hang hence the
central
position for the pull cord. Naturally he would like the solution to be as
economical as possible. The intended donor paintings are approx 18-24"
square using a frame thickness of 2".
The only thing I can come up with so far is a battery powerd 12" mini
fluorescent T8 Tube at 8W modified to use a pull cord.
Does anyone have any solutions that are financially viable for a painting
that may retail for £50-60 ?
Can anyone think of a rechargable solution possibly using solar power
through the daytime to trickle charge the batteries for use at evenings ?

Help !!!!

--
Ellis Greensitt, Site-Admin, UK Electrician's Forum
http://supplychain.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 19:25:36 +0100, "Ellis Greensitt"
wrote:

Can anyone think of a rechargable solution possibly using solar power
through the daytime to trickle charge the batteries for use at evenings ?

Fit a battery box, and a DC power inlet socket too. If anyone wants to
mains power it for permanent use, then they can plug a suitable external
wall-wart into it. As this is all LV inside the box, then it also
avoids the CE marking issue.

Osram are selling lots of small 6V hand torches with fluorescent tubes
these days (Lidl keep having cratefuls). They're only small, but
they're very cheap.

BIG NIGE wrote:
LEDs would use less battery power and create less heat, but may cost too
much for initial outlay.

snip quoted message incorrectly placed at bottom
For the same level of illumination, LEDs use about 2-5 times the power of
fluorescants.
And, getting close to 2 requires inefficient fluorescants, and bleeding
edge LEDs.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 19:25:36 +0100, "Ellis Greensitt"
wrote:

Can anyone think of a rechargable solution possibly using solar
power through the daytime to trickle charge the batteries for
use at evenings ?

Fit a battery box, and a DC power inlet socket too. If anyone
wants to mains power it for permanent use, then they can plug a
suitable external wall-wart into it. As this is all LV inside
the box, then it also avoids the CE marking issue.

Good idea - it can be fast-charged between viewings, especially with NIMH
cells?

In article ,
BIG NIGE wrote:
LEDs would use less battery power and create less heat, but may cost too
much for initial outlay.

Not so - they are less efficient than fluorescents for this task.

--
*I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Ellis Greensitt wrote:
I was contacted last week by an artist in Kidderminster who wishes to
modify his artwork (stretched canvas paintings over a wooden frame) to
include a option to have them illuminated from behind. He wishes the
solution to be self-contained i.e. battery powered, and will just work
"out-of-the-box" so to speak. After discussing in detail with him about
the feasibility of this, he has done some preliminary testing using
mains powered light sources to create the effect he is looking for. He
is using some sort of polycarbonate sheet on the rear of the canvas to
diffuse the light over the entire rear surface so the position of the
light source is not critical. He requires the light source to be turned
on/off via a small pull cord drilled through the centre of the frame
bottom so that the painting may me turned on/off without removing it
from the wall and without disturbing the hang hence the central
position for the pull cord. Naturally he would like the solution to be
as economical as possible. The intended donor paintings are approx
18-24" square using a frame thickness of 2".

I'd go for caravan fittings. You should be able to get those in 18"
Depending on spacing, you may need to use a thin sheet of white perspex
etc between them and the display to 'soften' the light sources.

IMHO, anything run off dry cells will cost too much to run.

--
*A bartender is just a pharmacist with a limited inventory.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Steve Walker wrote:

Good idea - it can be fast-charged between viewings, especially with NIMH
cells?

If wires are a problem then you could use a inductive loop to connect to
the charger. You could even build the charging loop into the wall behind
the frame.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
Steve Walker wrote:

Good idea - it can be fast-charged between viewings, especially with NIMH
cells?

If wires are a problem then you could use a inductive loop to connect to
the charger. You could even build the charging loop into the wall behind
the frame.

Gonna be orders of magnitude easier just to put a FCU behind the piccy.

In article ,
Ian Stirling wrote:
Good idea - it can be fast-charged between viewings, especially with
NIMH cells?

If wires are a problem then you could use a inductive loop to connect
to the charger. You could even build the charging loop into the wall
behind the frame.

Gonna be orders of magnitude easier just to put a FCU behind the piccy.

Yup. Unless mains simply isn't available any battery solution is gonna
cost. But then it's only stating the obvious. ;-)

--
*Many hamsters only blink one eye at a time *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 19:25:36 +0100, "Ellis Greensitt"
wrote:

Can anyone think of a rechargable solution possibly using solar power
through the daytime to trickle charge the batteries for use at evenings ?

Fit a battery box, and a DC power inlet socket too. If anyone wants to
mains power it for permanent use, then they can plug a suitable external
wall-wart into it. As this is all LV inside the box, then it also
avoids the CE marking issue.

Osram are selling lots of small 6V hand torches with fluorescent tubes
these days (Lidl keep having cratefuls). They're only small, but
they're very cheap.

For the lamps you could consider using the cold cathode tubes found in
scanners.

I recently did something very similar to that described by the OP
although in my case I was happy to power it from a wall wart. Our
local recycling centre gets tens of scanners per day and they were
happy to set a few aside for me. Carefully rip the scanner apart and
inside you will find a white cold cathode lamp which is extremely thin
(about 3mm) along with a small inverter PCB to drive it. Such a thin
tube can easilly be hidden in the frame of the artwork. To make life
easy for yourself look out for the internal working voltage of the
scanner, many are 12V but some are as high as 24V, 12V is easy to
provide with a wall wart for a fiver, 24V is harder.

The trickier problem was diffusing the light enough so that the
illumination was even and became a pleasing part of the whole rather
than a distraction. In the end I routed a groove in each side of the
frame and bounced the light off a rough surfaced white card backing.
It works quite well but I still would like to get it more even if I
could.

Good luck with your project.

In message ,
"Ellis Greensitt" wrote:

Heres a good one for you !!

I was contacted last week by an artist in Kidderminster who wishes to modify
his artwork (stretched canvas paintings over a wooden frame) to include a
option to have them illuminated from behind.

Haven't noticed anyone mentioning electroluninescent material. It's ages
since I tried any out, and all you see in Maplins these days is EL
"string", but you used to be able to get it in sheets which could be cut
to size with a sharp scissors. The downside is that it needs a driver.
In the days I was looking at it (for backlighting LCDs) it was only
available in colours (bluish or greenish IIRC) but maybe there is a
white nowadays or an "almost white"?

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... Constant change is here to stay.

Martin Angove wrote:
In message ,
"Ellis Greensitt" wrote:

Heres a good one for you !!

I was contacted last week by an artist in Kidderminster who wishes to modify
his artwork (stretched canvas paintings over a wooden frame) to include a
option to have them illuminated from behind.

Haven't noticed anyone mentioning electroluninescent material. It's ages

Irrelevant.
The problem is not the light emitter, for which fluorescants are probably
a good match, if used appropriately, but the "no mains cable" requirement.
IIRC, EL is much less efficient than fluorescants.

Calvin wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 19:25:36 +0100, "Ellis Greensitt"
wrote:

Can anyone think of a rechargable solution possibly using solar power
through the daytime to trickle charge the batteries for use at evenings ?

Fit a battery box, and a DC power inlet socket too. If anyone wants to
mains power it for permanent use, then they can plug a suitable external
wall-wart into it. As this is all LV inside the box, then it also
avoids the CE marking issue.

Osram are selling lots of small 6V hand torches with fluorescent tubes
these days (Lidl keep having cratefuls). They're only small, but
they're very cheap.

For the lamps you could consider using the cold cathode tubes found in
scanners.

Much easier.
http://www.ebuyer.com/ case modding.
They used to be 1.50 for 1*12" white, but have about doubled in price IIRC.
Run on 12V.

Ian Stirling wrote:
Calvin wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 19:25:36 +0100, "Ellis Greensitt"
wrote:

Can anyone think of a rechargable solution possibly using solar power
through the daytime to trickle charge the batteries for use at evenings ?

Fit a battery box, and a DC power inlet socket too. If anyone wants to
mains power it for permanent use, then they can plug a suitable external
wall-wart into it. As this is all LV inside the box, then it also
avoids the CE marking issue.

Osram are selling lots of small 6V hand torches with fluorescent tubes
these days (Lidl keep having cratefuls). They're only small, but
they're very cheap.

For the lamps you could consider using the cold cathode tubes found in
scanners.

Much easier.
http://www.ebuyer.com/ case modding.
They used to be 1.50 for 1*12" white, but have about doubled in price IIRC.
Run on 12V.

I have a number of these and they're fun, especially the UV type. They
now come in pairs driven from a single driver circuit so a doubling in
price isn't too unreasonable.

For this application though they can be a bit bulky and hence more
difficult to hide. You see, I think the OP is yet to discover that for
artwork diffusing the illumination is critical and much harder then you
imagine it should be. The only solution I've yet come up with is to
mask the light source so that it is not viewed directly, you're then
left with having to diffuse the reflected light which is lots easier as
the contrast ratio is much lower. The tubes from scanners really are
very thin and I was able to route a 3mm groove in the frame sides and
set them back quite a way so that even from about 45 degrees off axis
they were hidden.

In article .com,
Calvin wrote:
For this application though they can be a bit bulky and hence more
difficult to hide. You see, I think the OP is yet to discover that for
artwork diffusing the illumination is critical and much harder then you
imagine it should be. The only solution I've yet come up with is to
mask the light source so that it is not viewed directly, you're then
left with having to diffuse the reflected light which is lots easier as
the contrast ratio is much lower.

It's possible to get an even soft source using fluorescents direct but
with a defuser between them and the eye. That's how most illuminated shop
signs work. But to do it properly costs.

--
*60-year-old, one owner - needs parts, make offer

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Calvin wrote:
Ian Stirling wrote:
Calvin wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 19:25:36 +0100, "Ellis Greensitt"
wrote:

Can anyone think of a rechargable solution possibly using solar power
through the daytime to trickle charge the batteries for use at evenings ?

Fit a battery box, and a DC power inlet socket too. If anyone wants to
mains power it for permanent use, then they can plug a suitable external
wall-wart into it. As this is all LV inside the box, then it also
avoids the CE marking issue.

Osram are selling lots of small 6V hand torches with fluorescent tubes
these days (Lidl keep having cratefuls). They're only small, but
they're very cheap.

For the lamps you could consider using the cold cathode tubes found in
scanners.

Much easier.
http://www.ebuyer.com/ case modding.
They used to be 1.50 for 1*12" white, but have about doubled in price IIRC.
Run on 12V.
snip
For this application though they can be a bit bulky and hence more
difficult to hide. You see, I think the OP is yet to discover that for
artwork diffusing the illumination is critical and much harder then you
imagine it should be. The only solution I've yet come up with is to
mask the light source so that it is not viewed directly, you're then
left with having to diffuse the reflected light which is lots easier as
the contrast ratio is much lower. The tubes from scanners really are
very thin and I was able to route a 3mm groove in the frame sides and
set them back quite a way so that even from about 45 degrees off axis
they were hidden.

The tubes from these are the same ones as from scanners basically.
You just need to rip off the plastic cover, which admittedly can be
moderately tricky, but takes moments with an abrasive disk.