Hi all,

I bought a PPPro 1200w mains drill for about =A355 yesterday. Yes, I
know it's not a Makita, but for my level of DIY, PPPro has always
represented good value. It was bought to replace an old B&D 450w POS,
and to complement a PPPro 12V drill/driver which is a good bit of kit
for =A330!

However, they had an 850W SDS drill at around the same price. I know
that a cheap SDS drill isn't light, but as I will use the drill/driver
for 90% of tasks, perhaps this isn't a problem. I also shied away
from it as I have no SDS bits.

But now I'm thinking I should take the 1200w back and swap it for the
SDS. I have to fit some metal back boxes in brick, and I'm thinking
that joining the SDS club would be a good move, even at this price
point.

I know it's all in the eye of the beholder, but opinions please?
Should I do the swap?

Antony

On 21 May 2005 05:30:51 -0700, "antgel" wrote:

Hi all,

I bought a PPPro 1200w mains drill for about £55 yesterday. Yes, I
know it's not a Makita, but for my level of DIY, PPPro has always
represented good value. It was bought to replace an old B&D 450w POS,
and to complement a PPPro 12V drill/driver which is a good bit of kit
for £30!

However, they had an 850W SDS drill at around the same price. I know
that a cheap SDS drill isn't light, but as I will use the drill/driver
for 90% of tasks, perhaps this isn't a problem. I also shied away
from it as I have no SDS bits.

But now I'm thinking I should take the 1200w back and swap it for the
SDS. I have to fit some metal back boxes in brick, and I'm thinking
that joining the SDS club would be a good move, even at this price
point.

I know it's all in the eye of the beholder, but opinions please?
Should I do the swap?

Antony


Definitely. Swap it for cash and then buy a Bosch one.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

antgel wrote:

I bought a PPPro 1200w mains drill for about £55 yesterday. Yes, I
know it's not a Makita, but for my level of DIY, PPPro has always
represented good value. It was bought to replace an old B&D 450w POS,
and to complement a PPPro 12V drill/driver which is a good bit of kit
for £30!

However, they had an 850W SDS drill at around the same price. I know
that a cheap SDS drill isn't light, but as I will use the drill/driver
for 90% of tasks, perhaps this isn't a problem. I also shied away
from it as I have no SDS bits.

But now I'm thinking I should take the 1200w back and swap it for the
SDS. I have to fit some metal back boxes in brick, and I'm thinking
that joining the SDS club would be a good move, even at this price
point.

I know it's all in the eye of the beholder, but opinions please?
Should I do the swap?


Spending that much on a PPPro just doesn't make sense, when you can have
a Bosch or a Makita for only slightly more. I could just about
understand someone buying a £20 PPPro, because you can't get any decent
makes for that price - but not £55.

As for the SDS, again, why on earth would you spend that much on a poor
make, when you can have a pro tool for about £30 more? That's less than
you'll spend on bits.


--
Grunff

On 21 May 2005 05:30:51 -0700, "antgel" wrote:

Hi all,

I bought a PPPro 1200w mains drill for about £55 yesterday. Yes, I
know it's not a Makita, but for my level of DIY, PPPro has always
represented good value. It was bought to replace an old B&D 450w POS,
and to complement a PPPro 12V drill/driver which is a good bit of kit
for £30!

However, they had an 850W SDS drill at around the same price. I know
that a cheap SDS drill isn't light, but as I will use the drill/driver
for 90% of tasks, perhaps this isn't a problem. I also shied away
from it as I have no SDS bits.

But now I'm thinking I should take the 1200w back and swap it for the
SDS. I have to fit some metal back boxes in brick, and I'm thinking
that joining the SDS club would be a good move, even at this price
point.

I know it's all in the eye of the beholder, but opinions please?
Should I do the swap?

Antony

B&Q don't do exchanges on power tools if you don't like them (so I am
imformed by the returns desk). The tool I got the other week, that was
not upto doing what I asked it to do, the assistant suggested that it
must be a dud, so I agreed.

Rick

Grunff wrote;
Spending that much on a PPPro just doesn't make sense, when you can have a
Bosch or a Makita for only slightly more. I could just about understand
someone buying a £20 PPPro, because you can't get any decent makes for
that price - but not £55.

As for the SDS, again, why on earth would you spend that much on a poor
make, when you can have a pro tool for about £30 more? That's less than
you'll spend on bits.

I reckon the PPro stuff gets a lot of stick it doesn't deserve, I've got
PPro routers, drill drivers, sanders and a jigsaw, most of which is made by
Ryobi anyway. All have a 3 year warranty & B&Q don't argue about it, they
replace or credit.

Why spend slightly more on a brand name with a one year warranty? Bearing
in mind you are buying low end brand name.

Dave

David Lang wrote:
Grunff wrote;

Spending that much on a PPPro just doesn't make sense, when you can have a
Bosch or a Makita for only slightly more. I could just about understand
someone buying a £20 PPPro, because you can't get any decent makes for
that price - but not £55.

As for the SDS, again, why on earth would you spend that much on a poor
make, when you can have a pro tool for about £30 more? That's less than
you'll spend on bits.


I reckon the PPro stuff gets a lot of stick it doesn't deserve, I've got
PPro routers, drill drivers, sanders and a jigsaw,

Having used both PP and PPPro tools, I am fairly confident in saying
that the performance sucks.



most of which is made by
Ryobi anyway.

This is based on what?



All have a 3 year warranty & B&Q don't argue about it, they
replace or credit.

Sure, but this isn't the only (or even the most important)
consideration. For many people, the performance of the tool also matters.



Why spend slightly more on a brand name with a one year warranty?

Because they will perform better, and you'll be able to get spares for them.


Bearing
in mind you are buying low end brand name.

How's that? The examples I gave were for either Bosch Blue or Makita
tools - hardly low end.


--
Grunff

Hi Grunff.

Having used both PP and PPPro tools, I am fairly confident in saying that
the performance sucks.

I'd agree on the PP range, cheap as chips and yes, the performance sucks.
Not so IMO with the PPro range. I have a 700 watt barrel jigsaw from PPro
for example and the performance is awesome.

most of which is made by Ryobi anyway.

This is based on what?

Based on me knowing a lot of people in the power tool trade who tell me so.
Plus the fact that many design features are common to both and found nowhere
else. Examples being the belt sander with a frame (rare these days) and the
barrel jigsaw (also rare, but better control IMO).

Why spend slightly more on a brand name with a one year warranty?

Because they will perform better, and you'll be able to get spares for
them.

You can get spares for the PPro range. You get parts lists with most of
them. Apart from which, if I spend 'not a lot' on a power tool and it last
3 years, I'm happy with that. Performance is not always that much better
anyway. As I said, to outperform my PPro jigsaw would take some doing - it
laughs at 40mm worktop.

These days though I'm not sure it's worth repairing stuff. I had a 20 year
old Elu orbital sander and the bearings went. £30 to even look at it,
bearings could cost £10, another £20 labour. Total £60 odd quid and I'm
left with a sander designed 20 years ago. Things have moved on. ROS
sanders at £35 run rings round the old Elu, good as it was.

Bearing in mind you are buying low end brand name.

How's that? The examples I gave were for either Bosch Blue or Makita
tools - hardly low end.

I'd assumed you were talking Bosh Green & Maktech. Even so, do the sums add
up?

Dave

David Lang wrote:

I'd agree on the PP range, cheap as chips and yes, the performance sucks.
Not so IMO with the PPro range. I have a 700 watt barrel jigsaw from PPro
for example and the performance is awesome.

Not tried the jigsaw, but I have used (owned in fact) the 18V Combi
drill (really poor), the 800W main hammer drill (ditto), and the 8"
sliding mitre saw (makes my NuTool look accurate).



most of which is made by Ryobi anyway.

This is based on what?


Based on me knowing a lot of people in the power tool trade who tell me so.

Yeah, but there is so much hearsay in this area I'd rather not believe
it unless it's been published by the brand or manufacturer in question.



You can get spares for the PPro range. You get parts lists with most of
them.

Where do you order the parts from?



As I said, to outperform my PPro jigsaw would take some doing - it
laughs at 40mm worktop.

So does my 7 year old Bosch Green :-)



I'd assumed you were talking Bosh Green & Maktech. Even so, do the sums add
up?

I would say in this particular example, it really makes little sense to
go for the PPPro. For instance:

The OP is talking about a mains drill for £55. Ignore the 1200Ws for now
- the power rating of the motor has little bearing on the available
output power, or the performance of the tool. My suggested alternatives
would be:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?ts=20179&id=40484
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=22231&recno=4

Either of these tools is likely to outlast the PPPro by a decade or two,
and be far nicer to use.


The there's the SDS drill, also at around £55. SDS drills are one thing
where the cheap ones really are crap - I know, I've owned some. My
suggested alternatives would be:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?ts=20526&id=16770
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=22333&recno=3

Sure they cost a little more, but the difference between them and a
PPPro tool is vast.


I'm not saying cheap tools don't have their place - just that in many
situations, going for the cheap tool just doesn't make sense.

For example, I own a NuTool sliding mitre saw. I recognise this tool as
being really very poor in terms of accuracy and ease of use. However,
the equavalent decent tool would have cost me ~£500. I couldn't spend
that at the time. One day, soon, I will replace it with a Makita. But
for now, it makes cutting fence rails etc. much easier.


--
Grunff

Hi Grunff

Yeah, but there is so much hearsay in this area I'd rather not believe it
unless it's been published by the brand or manufacturer in question.

OK, but look at the obvious stuff. Who else makes a belt sander with a
depth frame? Or a barrel jigsaw with side vents on the base for extraction.
Circumstancial evidence granted, but a bit like a trout in the milk?

Where do you order the parts from?

Web address on the warranty leaflet. I think the warranty issue is valid
though. I have a Ferm biscuit jointer that had a minor fault after 14
months.. Screwfix said they would only repair it, I had to send it back at
my expense and pay for the return delivery @£7:50. B&Q would simply have
replaced it there and then.


Either of these tools is likely to outlast the PPPro by a decade or two,
and be far nicer to use.

Maybe. We will never know unless we buy them will we?

For example, I own a NuTool sliding mitre saw. I recognise this tool as
being really very poor in terms of accuracy and ease of use. However, the
equavalent decent tool would have cost me ~£500. I couldn't spend that at
the time. One day, soon, I will replace it with a Makita. But for now, it
makes cutting fence rails etc. much easier.

I know what you mean. When researching a new type of power tool I usually
buy a cheapo first to see how I get on with it and if it's any good. If I
get on with it and like it, I'll spend the extra and get a better make. But
seriously I've only been impressed with the PPro I've bought.

A good thing about B&Q though - you can use their money to experiment. I
bought a Pro el cheapo belt sander and decided that a belt sander would be
a useful piece of kit. Then I took it back & traded up to a PPRo.

Dave

On Sun, 22 May 2005 00:51:28 GMT, "David Lang"
wrote:


Hi Grunff

Yeah, but there is so much hearsay in this area I'd rather not believe it
unless it's been published by the brand or manufacturer in question.

OK, but look at the obvious stuff. Who else makes a belt sander with a
depth frame?

Makita and Bosch both do. I have the Makita one...





--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article , David Lang
writes
Grunff wrote;
Spending that much on a PPPro just doesn't make sense, when you can have a
Bosch or a Makita for only slightly more. I could just about understand
someone buying a £20 PPPro, because you can't get any decent makes for
that price - but not £55.

As for the SDS, again, why on earth would you spend that much on a poor
make, when you can have a pro tool for about £30 more? That's less than
you'll spend on bits.

I reckon the PPro stuff gets a lot of stick it doesn't deserve, I've got
PPro routers, drill drivers, sanders and a jigsaw, most of which is made by
Ryobi anyway. All have a 3 year warranty & B&Q don't argue about it, they
replace or credit.

Why spend slightly more on a brand name with a one year warranty? Bearing
in mind you are buying low end brand name.

Dave



The only PPro "thing" I have left is a router which is still intact
simply 'cos the poxy thing is so badly designed that I don't use it!.

All the other PPro crap has long been since consigned to the tip....

--
Tony Sayer

Steve Firth wrote:

The PPPro 18V cordless circular trim saw is actually marked "Ryobi" and
the Cordless Drill from the same series is definitely a Ryobi, identical
in every respect.


Well, ok, that's reasonable evidence :-)


--
Grunff

Hi Andy

Makita and Bosch both do. I have the Makita one...


OK, I'll rephrase the question;

OK, but look at the obvious stuff. Who else makes a belt sander with a
depth frame?

At a similar price to B&Q PPro

Dave

On Sun, 22 May 2005 11:36:30 GMT, "David Lang"
wrote:

Hi Andy

Makita and Bosch both do. I have the Makita one...


OK, I'll rephrase the question;

OK, but look at the obvious stuff. Who else makes a belt sander with a
depth frame?

At a similar price to B&Q PPro

Dave


One needs to look at price, quality and performance.....



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Hi Andy
One needs to look at price, quality and performance.....

Agreed, but the discussion was about whether or not the B&Q PPro were made
by Ryobi. I pointed out that the belt sander has a frame and the jigsaw is
a barrel type, both unusual features.

I don't dispute that Makita & Bosch make machines with these features, but
it's unlikely that they are manufacturing cheap units for B&Q, so Ryobi is
the a likely candidate.

Dave

"David Lang" wrote in message
...
Hi Andy
One needs to look at price, quality and performance.....

Agreed, but the discussion was about whether or not the B&Q PPro were made
by Ryobi. I pointed out that the belt sander has a frame and the jigsaw
is a barrel type, both unusual features.

I don't dispute that Makita & Bosch make machines with these features, but
it's unlikely that they are manufacturing cheap units for B&Q, so Ryobi is
the a likely candidate.

Dave


PPPro tools are made by GMC not Ryobi.

http://www.gmcompany.com/index.cfm

"Kaiser" wrote in message
...

"David Lang" wrote in message
...
Hi Andy
One needs to look at price, quality and performance.....

Agreed, but the discussion was about whether or not the B&Q PPro were
made
by Ryobi. I pointed out that the belt sander has a frame and the jigsaw
is a barrel type, both unusual features.

I don't dispute that Makita & Bosch make machines with these features,
but
it's unlikely that they are manufacturing cheap units for B&Q, so Ryobi
is
the a likely candidate.

Dave


PPPro tools are made by GMC not Ryobi.

http://www.gmcompany.com/index.cfm

They are not all made by one company. The same with Wickes pro range. Many
are made by Kress, and some by an Italian maker. It is always best to
inquire where they are made. If Germany then it is a Kress. Their SDS
drills are Kress and very good.

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H Kaiser
PPPro tools are made by GMC not Ryobi.

http://www.gmcompany.com/index.cfm

Wow! They are indeed! How did you find that out?

Looking at some of the drill drivers I reckon Ryobi are buying stuff from
them.

Dave

In article , Kaiser
writes

"David Lang" wrote in message
k...
Hi Andy
One needs to look at price, quality and performance.....

Agreed, but the discussion was about whether or not the B&Q PPro were made
by Ryobi. I pointed out that the belt sander has a frame and the jigsaw
is a barrel type, both unusual features.

I don't dispute that Makita & Bosch make machines with these features, but
it's unlikely that they are manufacturing cheap units for B&Q, so Ryobi is
the a likely candidate.

Dave


PPPro tools are made by GMC not Ryobi.

http://www.gmcompany.com/index.cfm



Seems their websites down!...
--
Tony Sayer

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Kaiser
writes

"David Lang" wrote in message
k...
Hi Andy
One needs to look at price, quality and performance.....

Agreed, but the discussion was about whether or not the B&Q PPro were
made
by Ryobi. I pointed out that the belt sander has a frame and the
jigsaw
is a barrel type, both unusual features.

I don't dispute that Makita & Bosch make machines with these features,
but
it's unlikely that they are manufacturing cheap units for B&Q, so Ryobi
is
the a likely candidate.

Dave


PPPro tools are made by GMC not Ryobi.

http://www.gmcompany.com/index.cfm



Seems their websites down!...

this is not:
http://www.gmcompany.com/

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"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"Kaiser" wrote in message
...

"David Lang" wrote in message
...
Hi Andy
One needs to look at price, quality and performance.....

Agreed, but the discussion was about whether or not the B&Q PPro were
made
by Ryobi. I pointed out that the belt sander has a frame and the
jigsaw
is a barrel type, both unusual features.

I don't dispute that Makita & Bosch make machines with these features,
but
it's unlikely that they are manufacturing cheap units for B&Q, so Ryobi
is
the a likely candidate.

Dave


PPPro tools are made by GMC not Ryobi.

http://www.gmcompany.com/index.cfm

They are not all made by one company. The same with Wickes pro range. Many
are made by Kress, and some by an Italian maker. It is always best to
inquire where they are made. If Germany then it is a Kress. Their SDS
drills are Kress and very good.

It appears to be a coincidence that they say "GMC has also expanded into
numerous international markets including the United Kingdom", and the only
place I've seen their kit is in B&Q all though as a previous poster said
"Looking at some of the drill drivers I reckon Ryobi are buying stuff from
them".

I doubt if B&Q staff would know who manufactures their own brand as they
don't seem as knowledgable as Wickes staff.

By the way you can download manuals on that site for some of the tools, as I
did for someone who had one of the PPPro 24v 3 speed drills.

On Mon, 23 May 2005 01:32:19 +0100, (Steve Firth)
wrote:

Kaiser wrote:

PPPro tools are made by GMC not Ryobi.

Then they appear to be sticking "Ryobi" stickers on some of the internal
parts.


The Chinese factories will do whatever level of private labelling to
obfuscate the product's true origin that the customer would like.

It all depends on the price and how many container loads he's willing
to take.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

antgel wrote:

But now I'm thinking I should take the 1200w back and swap it for the
SDS. I have to fit some metal back boxes in brick, and I'm thinking
that joining the SDS club would be a good move, even at this price
point.

Have a look at the "what to look for" section he

http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/sds.htm

If you want to do much chiseling then get one with a speed controller
trigger, otherwise they are rather "random" when trying to start a cut.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Andy Hall wrote:
Steve Firth wrote:
Kaiser wrote:
PPPro tools are made by GMC not Ryobi.
Then they appear to be sticking "Ryobi" stickers on some of the internal
parts.
The Chinese factories will do whatever level of private labelling to
obfuscate the product's true origin that the customer would like.

What, so if someone asks for a "cheap" type of import, and asks for
a different makers name to be printed on it, that maker won't take
action? Yeah, right.

Rick wrote:
On 21 May 2005 05:30:51 -0700, "antgel" wrote:


Hi all,

I bought a PPPro 1200w mains drill for about £55 yesterday. Yes, I
know it's not a Makita, but for my level of DIY, PPPro has always
represented good value. It was bought to replace an old B&D 450w POS,
and to complement a PPPro 12V drill/driver which is a good bit of kit
for £30!

However, they had an 850W SDS drill at around the same price. I know
that a cheap SDS drill isn't light, but as I will use the drill/driver
for 90% of tasks, perhaps this isn't a problem. I also shied away

from it as I have no SDS bits.

But now I'm thinking I should take the 1200w back and swap it for the
SDS. I have to fit some metal back boxes in brick, and I'm thinking
that joining the SDS club would be a good move, even at this price
point.

I know it's all in the eye of the beholder, but opinions please?
Should I do the swap?

Antony


B&Q don't do exchanges on power tools if you don't like them (so I am
imformed by the returns desk). The tool I got the other week, that was
not upto doing what I asked it to do, the assistant suggested that it
must be a dud, so I agreed.

Rick


Yes, similar to my findings ...

I have found the B&Q returns desk quite agreeable if you have found a
fault with your purchase. But it's best to have a detailed description
of the fault(s) you have found (the more the merrier really). BTW they
have never checked the faults I had before refunding my money.

When in the middle of the mitre saw fiasco, one returns assistant
described their own brands as crap and suggested I get a Makita or
DeWalt... after a faulty Rexon from B&Q I did!

"Chris Bacon" wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:
Steve Firth wrote:
Kaiser wrote:
PPPro tools are made by GMC not Ryobi.
Then they appear to be sticking "Ryobi" stickers on some of the internal
parts.
The Chinese factories will do whatever level of private labelling to
obfuscate the product's true origin that the customer would like.

What, so if someone asks for a "cheap" type of import, and asks for
a different makers name to be printed on it, that maker won't take
action? Yeah, right.

There have been numerous cordless drills from the far east with fake Makita
labels sold on market stalls. I've even seen them on eBay. It happens with
everything, take watches for example with fake Rolex logo's.

"Chris Bacon" wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:
Steve Firth wrote:
Kaiser wrote:
PPPro tools are made by GMC not Ryobi.
Then they appear to be sticking "Ryobi" stickers on some of the internal
parts.
The Chinese factories will do whatever level of private labelling to
obfuscate the product's true origin that the customer would like.

What, so if someone asks for a "cheap" type of import, and asks for
a different makers name to be printed on it, that maker won't take
action? Yeah, right.

Having had the name of a company I used to work for appear on an obviously
cheaper product which was in itself a copy of a lower quality competitor to
us, I can assure you this is the case.

On Mon, 23 May 2005 15:44:05 +0100, Chris Bacon
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
Steve Firth wrote:
Kaiser wrote:
PPPro tools are made by GMC not Ryobi.
Then they appear to be sticking "Ryobi" stickers on some of the internal
parts.
The Chinese factories will do whatever level of private labelling to
obfuscate the product's true origin that the customer would like.

What, so if someone asks for a "cheap" type of import, and asks for
a different makers name to be printed on it, that maker won't take
action? Yeah, right.


That's not what I said.

In the example, the customer is the company wanting the manufacturing
and labelling of the product, not the end user. I thought that that
was pretty clear.

In other words, if Ryobi (whoever they are, which is somewhat unclear)
want their name on all the components and not just on a sticky label
on the outside, they can have it for a price and a volume.

This is standard OEM and private label business.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 May 2005 15:44:05 +0100, Chris Bacon
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
Steve Firth wrote:
Kaiser wrote:
PPPro tools are made by GMC not Ryobi.
Then they appear to be sticking "Ryobi" stickers on some of the
internal
parts.
The Chinese factories will do whatever level of private labelling to
obfuscate the product's true origin that the customer would like.

What, so if someone asks for a "cheap" type of import, and asks for
a different makers name to be printed on it, that maker won't take
action? Yeah, right.


That's not what I said.

In the example, the customer is the company wanting the manufacturing
and labelling of the product, not the end user. I thought that that
was pretty clear.

In other words, if Ryobi (whoever they are, which is somewhat unclear)

They are a Japanese company. A very large one too.

want their name on all the components and not just on a sticky label
on the outside, they can have it for a price and a volume.

This is standard OEM and private label business.



--

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com


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"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Kaiser wrote:

PPPro tools are made by GMC not Ryobi.

Then they appear to be sticking "Ryobi" stickers on some of the internal
parts.


Can you be more specific, Which internal parts and on what Ryobi product?

On Mon, 23 May 2005 22:15:38 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:



In other words, if Ryobi (whoever they are, which is somewhat unclear)

They are a Japanese company. A very large one too.




The tools company is owned by Techtronic International of Hong Kong.


http://www.ttigroup.com/general/home.php

You will discover from there that they also own the tools businesses
of Milwaukee, AEG as well as Ryobi.

90% of manufacturing is in mainland China..... a significant
proportion of which is OEM.








--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
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Andy wrote;

if Ryobi (whoever they are, which is somewhat unclear)

Now that is a good question. Either; GMC badge for Ryobi, who badge for
B&Q - OR Ryobi buy in GMC and badge them for B&Q.

Hmmmmmm!

I do know for sure that Ryobi buy in & badge pressure washers from FAIP -
because so does the company I work for!

Dave

On Mon, 23 May 2005 22:17:31 GMT, "David Lang"
wrote:

Andy wrote;

if Ryobi (whoever they are, which is somewhat unclear)

Now that is a good question. Either; GMC badge for Ryobi, who badge for
B&Q - OR Ryobi buy in GMC and badge them for B&Q.

Hmmmmmm!

I do know for sure that Ryobi buy in & badge pressure washers from FAIP -
because so does the company I work for!

Dave



Take a look at

www.gmcompany.com

- Under "About GMC" - no mention of manufacturing

- Under Service/Warranty - no mention of spares, just replacements.



Now take a look at

http://www.ttigroup.com/general/home.php


Look at the labels and that they have a substantial OEM business
and all will become clear....

I don't somehow think that GMC manufactures for Ryobi....



--

..andy

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"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 May 2005 22:15:38 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:

In other words, if Ryobi (whoever they are, which is somewhat unclear)

They are a Japanese company. A very large one too.

The tools company is owned by Techtronic International of Hong Kong.

http://www.ttigroup.com/general/home.php

You will discover from there that they also own the tools businesses
of Milwaukee, AEG as well as Ryobi.

If Milwaukee and AEG are anything to go by, then Royobi are up there.
Royobi quality is v good. That is clear. Any rebadging for PPPro will only
be on their top end models. In B&Q they actually sell the Ryobi brand.

90% of manufacturing is in mainland China..... a significant
proportion of which is OEM.


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On Tue, 24 May 2005 00:08:34 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 23 May 2005 22:15:38 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:

In other words, if Ryobi (whoever they are, which is somewhat unclear)

They are a Japanese company. A very large one too.

The tools company is owned by Techtronic International of Hong Kong.

http://www.ttigroup.com/general/home.php

You will discover from there that they also own the tools businesses
of Milwaukee, AEG as well as Ryobi.

If Milwaukee and AEG are anything to go by, then Royobi are up there.

Up where?

TTI has everything from Dirt Devil to Milwaukee. It's a range of
brand labels that they have bought together with the run-rate business
that goes with them.

They can choose to take the brands up market, down market, leave them
the same or even use them on mechanical diggers.


Royobi quality is v good. That is clear.

It's on the +/- average range in most tool reviews.

Any rebadging for PPPro will only
be on their top end models.

Rubbish.


In B&Q they actually sell the Ryobi brand.

and this is a recommendation?


90% of manufacturing is in mainland China..... a significant
proportion of which is OEM.



--

..andy

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"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 May 2005 22:17:31 GMT, "David Lang"
wrote:

Andy wrote;

if Ryobi (whoever they are, which is somewhat unclear)

Now that is a good question. Either; GMC badge for Ryobi, who badge for
B&Q - OR Ryobi buy in GMC and badge them for B&Q.

Hmmmmmm!

I do know for sure that Ryobi buy in & badge pressure washers from FAIP -
because so does the company I work for!

Dave



Take a look at

www.gmcompany.com

- Under "About GMC" - no mention of manufacturing

- Under Service/Warranty - no mention of spares, just replacements.



Now take a look at

http://www.ttigroup.com/general/home.php


Look at the labels and that they have a substantial OEM business
and all will become clear....

I don't somehow think that GMC manufactures for Ryobi....

If I hadn't seen it for my own eyes I would never have believed it. Homelite
was always associated with John Deere at one time, it was their DIY range.

On Tue, 24 May 2005 00:30:03 +0100, "Kaiser" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message


Now take a look at

http://www.ttigroup.com/general/home.php


Look at the labels and that they have a substantial OEM business
and all will become clear....

I don't somehow think that GMC manufactures for Ryobi....

If I hadn't seen it for my own eyes I would never have believed it. Homelite
was always associated with John Deere at one time, it was their DIY range.


Well.... It's just an indication of what's happening in the consumer
marketing and manufacturing world.

I suspect that most of us hadn't heard of TTI before yesterday - they
hardly give themselves a high profile. I don't suppose that most
people noticed their acquisition of the AEG/Milwaukee power tool
businesses in January, but we weren't intended to.

Regarding Ryobi's power tools businesses, TTI had purchased pieces of
it going all the way back to 2000. They bought the Americas business
in 2000, European business in 2001 and Australia/NZ in 2002. In
turn, Ryobi Japan owned a piece of TTI until 2003 when they divested
themselves completely of it.

Even so, TTI is not *that* big. Turnover for last year was a little
over £1bn.

TTI now has around 40% of the power tools market in the U.S. (largely
because of Ridgid and Milwaukee) and between 15 and 20% in Europe.

One thing's for sure. Japanese company they are not as regards power
tools, unless perhaps Ryobi Ltd. of Japan resells stuff manufactured
by TTI in Japan. This is the classical Chinese operation with Hong
Kong gateway.




--

..andy

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Mike wrote:
"Chris Bacon"wrote in message...
Andy Hall wrote:
Steve Firth wrote:
Kaiser wrote:
PPPro tools are made by GMC not Ryobi.
Then they appear to be sticking "Ryobi" stickers on some of the internal
parts.
The Chinese factories will do whatever level of private labelling to
obfuscate the product's true origin that the customer would like.

What, so if someone asks for a "cheap" type of import, and asks for
a different makers name to be printed on it, that maker won't take
action? Yeah, right.


Having had the name of a company I used to work for appear on an obviously
cheaper product which was in itself a copy of a lower quality competitor to
us, I can assure you this is the case.

They have then an obvious remedy at law.

Hi Andy
You will discover from there that they also own the tools businesses
of Milwaukee, AEG as well as Ryobi.

Snipped from the site These include such leading names as Ryobi®,
Milwaukee® and AEG® power tools; DreBo® carbide drill bits®; Ryobi® and
Homelite® outdoor power equipment; and Regina®, Royal®, Dirt Devil®, and
Vax® floor care appliances.

Vax? I thought they were a UK company.

Dave

On Tue, 24 May 2005 09:54:36 GMT, "David Lang"
wrote:

Hi Andy
You will discover from there that they also own the tools businesses
of Milwaukee, AEG as well as Ryobi.

Snipped from the site These include such leading names as Ryobi®,
Milwaukee® and AEG® power tools; DreBo® carbide drill bits®; Ryobi® and
Homelite® outdoor power equipment; and Regina®, Royal®, Dirt Devil®, and
Vax® floor care appliances.

Vax? I thought they were a UK company.

Dave




Used to be. Actually, they used to be made in Ireland by Digital
Equipment Corporation.



--

..andy

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