Hooray! Broadband has arrived! Am being told that every telephone must
run through a microfilter at its socket.

Telephone cables here branch and daisy-chain all over the house, so
that could cost a fortune.

Is this correct?

What I would like to do is to plug one of these filters in at the front
door tel cable entry point & run a CAT5/wireless router system off the
broadband point & feed the rest of the house telephone cabling off the
telephone half of the microfilter.

ie is the microfilter a 'splitter' or does it just split off the
broadband & leave the full signal going through the telephone output?

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hooray! Broadband has arrived! Am being told that every telephone must
run through a microfilter at its socket.

Telephone cables here branch and daisy-chain all over the house, so
that could cost a fortune.

Is this correct?

What I would like to do is to plug one of these filters in at the front
door tel cable entry point & run a CAT5/wireless router system off the
broadband point & feed the rest of the house telephone cabling off the
telephone half of the microfilter.

ie is the microfilter a 'splitter' or does it just split off the
broadband & leave the full signal going through the telephone output?


If you want to run lots of phones from the single filter it is best to get a
proper splitter rather than a microfilter as the microfilter's
characteristics change more as you add phones. You've a better chance of
getting the full upstream data rate that way. While you're at it you could
get an NTE5 installed.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hooray! Broadband has arrived! Am being told that every telephone must
run through a microfilter at its socket.

Telephone cables here branch and daisy-chain all over the house, so
that could cost a fortune.

Is this correct?

Even if you'll end up buying a MF per socket this should hardly cost you a
furtune, unless you plan to give your business to Dixons or it affiliated...

See for example http://tinyurl.com/dh75u (I've always used the cheapest
ones, and never had a problem)

In article .com,
wrote:

ie is the microfilter a 'splitter' or does it just split off the
broadband & leave the full signal going through the telephone output?

Actually the adsl side passes straight through the splitter, it is the
phone side is filtered. This is why you need a filter in every phone
socket unless you install a BT style adsl faceplate. These can be
bought from a number of places such as www.adslnation.co.uk.

--
Adrian

"Theory and practice are the same in theory, but different in practice"

In message .com,
wrote:

Hooray! Broadband has arrived! Am being told that every telephone must
run through a microfilter at its socket.

Telephone cables here branch and daisy-chain all over the house, so
that could cost a fortune.

Is this correct?

What I would like to do is to plug one of these filters in at the front
door tel cable entry point & run a CAT5/wireless router system off the
broadband point & feed the rest of the house telephone cabling off the
telephone half of the microfilter.

ie is the microfilter a 'splitter' or does it just split off the
broadband & leave the full signal going through the telephone output?


I have a replacement bottom half for a standard BT master socket. There
are two sockets on the front; ADSL and telephone, and the extension IDC
connectors on the back are telephone filtered so all extensions are
covered by just this one filter. Cost about £12 from CPC IIRC so only
worthwhile if you've more than 3 or 4 extensions and/or prefer the
aesthetics.

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... Become a programmer and never see the world!!

wrote:

Hooray! Broadband has arrived! Am being told that every telephone must
run through a microfilter at its socket.

Telephone cables here branch and daisy-chain all over the house, so
that could cost a fortune.

Is this correct?

Not quite. Each phone (or phone type device including fax, analogue
modem etc) needs to be filtered, but several devices can be served by
one filter.

What I would like to do is to plug one of these filters in at the front
door tel cable entry point & run a CAT5/wireless router system off the
broadband point & feed the rest of the house telephone cabling off the
telephone half of the microfilter.

Yup easy enough. If you have a NTE5 master socket then the face plate
splitter is the neatest solution.

ie is the microfilter a 'splitter' or does it just split off the
broadband & leave the full signal going through the telephone output?

Other way round - the broadband signal is the "full signal". The voice
is the filtered part. (the filter is more to stop DC switching on the
voice side (i.e. going on or off hook) messing with the broadband
service than it is to stop the broadband from affecting the voice
service (which 9/10 phones will simply ignore)

All the various types are available he

http://www.solwise.co.uk/adsl_splitters.htm


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
wrote:

Hooray! Broadband has arrived! Am being told that every telephone
must run through a microfilter at its socket.

Telephone cables here branch and daisy-chain all over the house, so
that could cost a fortune.

Is this correct?

What I would like to do is to plug one of these filters in at the
front door tel cable entry point & run a CAT5/wireless router system
off the broadband point & feed the rest of the house telephone
cabling off the telephone half of the microfilter.

ie is the microfilter a 'splitter' or does it just split off the
broadband & leave the full signal going through the telephone output?

I'm not sure what you're referring to as the front door telephone cable
entry point. If this is an NTE5 - fine. If it's just a junction box, you
need to trace the wiring to the master socket, and operate on that. You're
not supposed to touch anything on the BT side of the master.

Assuming that there *is* an NTE5 master socket somewhere with removeable
faceplate, by far the best solution is to replace the faceplate with a
modified ADSL one from Clarity.
http://www.clarity.it/telecoms/adsl_faceplate.htm

This has a filtered phone socket and an unfiltered ADSL socket on the
front - and it *also* has IDC connectors for both filtered and unfiltered
connections on the back. You can connect all your telephone wiring to the
filtered connections - avoiding the need for any plug-in filters. You can
run a CAT5 cable (although you one need one of its pairs) from the
unfiltered connection to an RJ11/45 socket at a convenient location to plug
in your ADSL kit.

Not only is this neater that any other solution, it is also technically
superior and carries a much reduced risk of having your DIY telephone
extension wiring interfere with the ADSL signal.

--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

John Rumm wrote:
Other way round - the broadband signal is the "full signal". The
voice
is the filtered part. (the filter is more to stop DC switching on
the
voice side (i.e. going on or off hook) messing with the broadband
service than it is to stop the broadband from affecting the voice
service (which 9/10 phones will simply ignore)

For what it's worth, when I ran without a microfilter for a short time
the only effect I noticed was the total loss of caller ID on the phone.

At GBP 1.50 (Inc VAT) at somewhere like ebuyer it's hardly going to
cost a fortune is it?

http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/produ...duct_uid=39530

In article , Joe Smith
writes
On Thu 12 May 2005 23:24:01, Adrian Chapman wrote:



ie is the microfilter a 'splitter' or does it just split off
the broadband & leave the full signal going through the
telephone output?

Actually the adsl side passes straight through the splitter, it
is the phone side is filtered. This is why you need a filter in
every phone socket unless you install a BT style adsl faceplate.
These can be bought from a number of places such as
www.adslnation.co.uk.


What sort of price is one of these?

www.adslnation.co.uk see 'shop' top right
--
fred

wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

Other way round - the broadband signal is the "full signal". The

voice

is the filtered part. (the filter is more to stop DC switching on

the

voice side (i.e. going on or off hook) messing with the broadband
service than it is to stop the broadband from affecting the voice
service (which 9/10 phones will simply ignore)


For what it's worth, when I ran without a microfilter for a short time
the only effect I noticed was the total loss of caller ID on the phone.


I think you were probably quite lucky then. I've diagnosed a "faults"
with ADSL for friends and family and it has invariably been a dead or
missing microfilter. The symptoms in every case have been a dropped ADSL
link whenever the phone is used. Perhaps you didn't notice that the ADSL
went down when you were on the phone. After all if you aren't a heavy
user you might never have used the ADSL and phone at the same time.

--

.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`· Shallow Sea Aquatics .¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·
.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯ http://www.shallowsea.com ¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`

Set Square wrote:

This has a filtered phone socket and an unfiltered ADSL socket on the
front - and it *also* has IDC connectors for both filtered and unfiltered

Not only is this neater that any other solution, it is also technically
superior and carries a much reduced risk of having your DIY telephone
extension wiring interfere with the ADSL signal.

These modified filters are a good idea, although I have found you can
achieve the same effect almost as neatly on a convetional BT style
filter using a short RJ11 lead plugged into the unfiltered face socket,
and then its tail looped into the back box of the NTE5 where you crimp
it onto your CAT5 that runs to your remote unfiltered location.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hooray! Broadband has arrived! Am being told that every telephone must
run through a microfilter at its socket.

Telephone cables here branch and daisy-chain all over the house, so
that could cost a fortune.

Is this correct?

What I would like to do is to plug one of these filters in at the front
door tel cable entry point & run a CAT5/wireless router system off the
broadband point & feed the rest of the house telephone cabling off the
telephone half of the microfilter.

ie is the microfilter a 'splitter' or does it just split off the
broadband & leave the full signal going through the telephone output?


Hi Jim

I would strongly recommend that you use a faceplate splitter on the master
socket. It is much neater than using microfilters and I have also found
that it makes a difference to the noise level on the ADSL side, which allows
me to get a higher speed (I use UK online who use an adaptive technique that
drives the line as fast as it will go without errors).

Kind regards, Mike

"fredbloggstwo" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hooray! Broadband has arrived! Am being told that every telephone must
run through a microfilter at its socket.

Telephone cables here branch and daisy-chain all over the house, so
that could cost a fortune.

Is this correct?

What I would like to do is to plug one of these filters in at the front
door tel cable entry point & run a CAT5/wireless router system off the
broadband point & feed the rest of the house telephone cabling off the
telephone half of the microfilter.

ie is the microfilter a 'splitter' or does it just split off the
broadband & leave the full signal going through the telephone output?


Hi Jim

I would strongly recommend that you use a faceplate splitter on the master
socket. It is much neater than using microfilters and I have also found
that it makes a difference to the noise level on the ADSL side, which
allows
me to get a higher speed (I use UK online who use an adaptive technique
that
drives the line as fast as it will go without errors).


I agree.

My set up is Split BT mastersocket and thence a loop to the fax machine
point in the office, and then all other extensions after this.

Initially I had the Netgear supplied Microfilter plugged in with all the
extensions plugged into it at the fax point and the modem unsatisfactorally
sat on the window sill next to said fax machine.

I was getting a 512 connection with BT which would occasionally drop (though
not when any phones were used).

I eventually found the time to resite the modem in my comms cabinet (under
the stairs) using one of Clarity's NTE5 faceplates and running Cat5 from
here to the comms cab (about 8 meters).

Since then i've not lost the connection once and my speed has jumped to a
1meg connection. I rang BT and asked if something had happened and they told
me I was on a 1meg line all along.

So, it does make a difference!

Throw them dangly microfilters away!!

Tim..

In article , Adrian Chapman
wrote:

In article .com,
wrote:

ie is the microfilter a 'splitter' or does it just split off the
broadband & leave the full signal going through the telephone output?

Actually the adsl side passes straight through the splitter, it is the
phone side is filtered. This is why you need a filter in every phone
socket unless you install a BT style adsl faceplate. These can be
bought from a number of places such as www.adslnation.co.uk.

I went for the faceplate option and got the XTF faceplate from ADSL
Nation. I felt it was probably better value to spend 10.50 on just one
good filter than to buy lots of "cheap" splitters.

I just fed this as the first extension from the NTE5 then connected the
existing extension wiring to the filtered terminals on the back of the
filter. The NTE5 is in installed in the loft so the lack of a filtered
socket on that is no problem for us.

A point to watch with the ADSL Nation XTF is that the terminal numbers
on the back refer to the BS pin numbers on the phone plug and not the BT
numbering used on the PCBs of most sockets, i.e. 123456 becomes 654321.
I should have noticed when I saw the bell line marked as 4 instead of 3
but I was just in painting by numbers mode and connected up the
"correct" colours for the numbers with the result that the bells
wouldn't ring on the extensions. Connecting 2,4 and 5 as though they
were 5,3 and 2 sorted the problem. As far as I can see from the photos
on their website http://www.adslnation.co.uk/support/filters.php this
only applies to the XTF and not the NTF model.

--
Mike Clarke

At GBP 1.50 (Inc VAT) at somewhere like ebuyer it's hardly going to
cost a fortune is it?


That is often the problem. People will use cheap, and very nasty, filters
that just don't do the job. As others have said buy a faceplate and do the
job properly.

Peter Crosland

In article .com,
wrote:
Hooray! Broadband has arrived! Am being told that every telephone must
run through a microfilter at its socket.

Telephone cables here branch and daisy-chain all over the house, so
that could cost a fortune.

Is this correct?

What I would like to do is to plug one of these filters in at the front
door tel cable entry point & run a CAT5/wireless router system off the
broadband point & feed the rest of the house telephone cabling off the
telephone half of the microfilter.

You can get a master socket which splits the ADSL and phone line. That, of
course, involves situating a router or ADSL modem fed from that somewhere
then running CAT 5 etc to the computer. This is what I did in my cellar.
Added one of these where the phone line came in and went to internal
wiring. Changed the existing master to a slave. Situated a router close to
this master and ran CAT 5 to the areas I needed it in.

TLC are a good source of modular outlets where you can mix RG45 and
telephone sockets to your requirements. I used a four way RG45 in the
cellar to convert to CAT 5 from the router, then replaced the existing
telephone sockets where needed with an RG45 and BT outlet, which fit a one
gang box. The master socket which includes a filter came from CPC.

ie is the microfilter a 'splitter' or does it just split off the
broadband & leave the full signal going through the telephone output?

Other way around. It removes the ADSL carrier from the phone line after it.

--
*Windows will never cease *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Peter Crosland wrote:

That is often the problem. People will use cheap, and very nasty, filters
that just don't do the job. As others have said buy a faceplate and do the
job properly.

Not only that, you ought not have more than about 4 filters on the same
line anyway to stay within the ADSL spec.

(Nothing to do with REN BTW)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sat, 14 May 2005 12:24:13 +0100, Peter Crosland wrote:

That is often the problem. People will use cheap, and very nasty,
filters that just don't do the job. As others have said buy a
faceplate and do the job properly.

As BT trials proved last year and the reason that they could magically
lift the 6km line length limit. They found that most problems with
poor ASDL speeds were down to poor extension wiring and/or poor/to
many cheapo microfilters.

Stop the ADSL signal going all round the extension wiring and to
doubtful phones/micro filters with a single quality filter fitted to
the NTE.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.com...
On Sat, 14 May 2005 12:24:13 +0100, Peter Crosland wrote:

That is often the problem. People will use cheap, and very nasty,
filters that just don't do the job. As others have said buy a
faceplate and do the job properly.

As BT trials proved last year and the reason that they could magically
lift the 6km line length limit.

The length wasn't raised that much, it was the data rate over it that was
quadrupled and could still be lifted a lot more in many cases.


They found that most problems with
poor ASDL speeds were down to poor extension wiring and/or poor/to
many cheapo microfilters.

This was discussed in countless meetings at BT in 1997 when proper splitters
were intended to be used to try to isolate the worse effects of the internal
wiring. When Alcatel came up with the microfilter idea people thought they
were insane. Unfortunately insane but cheap ideas catch on.

On Sat, 14 May 2005 22:20:58 +0100, Mike wrote:

As BT trials proved last year and the reason that they could
magically lift the 6km line length limit.

The length wasn't raised that much,

AIUI there is now no limit on line length, the limit is now just what
a particular line will support (and what you want to pay for). Before
if your line was 6km then they wouldn't even come out to try.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

snip

My set up is Split BT mastersocket and thence a loop to the fax machine
point in the office, and then all other extensions after this.

Initially I had the Netgear supplied Microfilter plugged in with all the
extensions plugged into it at the fax point and the modem
unsatisfactorally
sat on the window sill next to said fax machine.

I was getting a 512 connection with BT which would occasionally drop
(though
not when any phones were used).

I eventually found the time to resite the modem in my comms cabinet (under
the stairs) using one of Clarity's NTE5 faceplates and running Cat5 from
here to the comms cab (about 8 meters).

Since then i've not lost the connection once and my speed has jumped to a
1meg connection. I rang BT and asked if something had happened and they
told
me I was on a 1meg line all along.

So, it does make a difference!

Throw them dangly microfilters away!!

Just to add to this a bit more, the facia plate splitter from Clarity has a
nice featu As well as two sockets out - one filtered for the phone and
one clean unfiltered for the ADSL, it has two extra terminals on the punch
down block inside (marked A and B) so that you can neatly run a few metres
of cable with the clean unfiltered signal for ADSL to another extension
socket, and then plug your ADSL modem in there.

My line is LLU and I use UKonline as an ISP . Using this technique, my line
speed has gone from 3.6 Mbps (when using micro-filters) to 5.2 Mbps, so the
facia plate splitter makes a significant difference. Not bad for 3.5 Km from
the exchange on a line that BT said would be luck to get 2M.

cheers, Mike

In article .com,
wrote:
For what it's worth, when I ran without a microfilter for a short time
the only effect I noticed was the total loss of caller ID on the phone.

And a load of noise on the phone?

--
*Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
wrote:
For what it's worth, when I ran without a microfilter for a short time
the only effect I noticed was the total loss of caller ID on the phone.

And a load of noise on the phone?

And possibly a lower than normal upstream data rate (not that BT exactly
push the technology to its limit in this direction). Also if you use an old
bell type phone the ADSL is almost killed dead by some internal diodes.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
wrote:
For what it's worth, when I ran without a microfilter for a short time
the only effect I noticed was the total loss of caller ID on the phone.

And a load of noise on the phone?

ADSL signals start at 1MHz.
You should not be able to hear anything on the line without the filters.
If you do hear anything its not the ADSL.

The filters are there to stop the ADSL being interrupted by impedance
changes when you pick the phone up.
These changes in line impedance cause retraining of the line and a break in
access.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
. uk...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
wrote:
For what it's worth, when I ran without a microfilter for a short time
the only effect I noticed was the total loss of caller ID on the phone.

And a load of noise on the phone?

ADSL signals start at 1MHz.

I assume you mean stops. Upstream runs from 32kHz to about 100kHz.
Downstream from about 120kHz to 1.1MHz.


You should not be able to hear anything on the line without the filters.
If you do hear anything its not the ADSL.

You will because any diodes in the telephone rectify the incoming signal in
the same manner as a crystal set and you hear the modulation of the ADSL
signal - which sounds remarkably like noise.


The filters are there to stop the ADSL being interrupted by impedance
changes when you pick the phone up.

Well they do smooth these out a bit. The original BT active splitter was
excellent for this but people didn't like having another wall-wart.


These changes in line impedance cause retraining of the line and a break
in
access.

Retraining only occurs if the modem cannot carry on from its current sync
timing after a noise impulse - be it a line change, lightning or whatever.
Thus for most noise you only lose about 2mS worth of data. If the modem has
to retrain it will take several seconds min, up to 30 seconds theorectical
worse case.

In message ,
"dennis@home" wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
wrote:
For what it's worth, when I ran without a microfilter for a short time
the only effect I noticed was the total loss of caller ID on the phone.

And a load of noise on the phone?

ADSL signals start at 1MHz.
You should not be able to hear anything on the line without the filters.
If you do hear anything its not the ADSL.

The filters are there to stop the ADSL being interrupted by impedance
changes when you pick the phone up.
These changes in line impedance cause retraining of the line and a break in
access.



All I can report is what happened when my mum went ADSL. Before I
installed the (central) filter, if you picked up a phone to make a call
you could quite clearly hear a kind of white noise. You could make a
call as normal, but the white noise made it a little difficult to hear
what was going on, though after a while said noise would cease.
Co-incidentally (or not) at the same time as the noise ceased, the ADSL
modem would go offline, and wouldn't reconnect until you had finished
your phonecall.

There's no way my ears can hear 1MHz so I suspect that something a *lot*
lower was on the line :-)

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... WindowError:00F Unexplained error. Please tell us how it happened.

Martin Angove wrote:

All I can report is what happened when my mum went ADSL. Before I
installed the (central) filter, if you picked up a phone to make a call
you could quite clearly hear a kind of white noise. You could make a
call as normal, but the white noise made it a little difficult to hear
what was going on, though after a while said noise would cease.
Co-incidentally (or not) at the same time as the noise ceased, the ADSL
modem would go offline, and wouldn't reconnect until you had finished
your phonecall.

I have detected that sort of noise on about one handset in ten (without
a filter)... most don't pickup any noise, but the ones that do can get
it quite bad!

(That is why some exchanges will disable the ADSL signal until after a
ADSL modem is detected as being connected for the first time)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , Martin Angove
writes
In message ,
"dennis@home" wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
wrote:
For what it's worth, when I ran without a microfilter for a short time
the only effect I noticed was the total loss of caller ID on the phone.

And a load of noise on the phone?

ADSL signals start at 1MHz.
You should not be able to hear anything on the line without the filters.
If you do hear anything its not the ADSL.

The filters are there to stop the ADSL being interrupted by impedance
changes when you pick the phone up.
These changes in line impedance cause retraining of the line and a break in
access.



All I can report is what happened when my mum went ADSL.

Well I report my experience, as ever it seems the opposite :-)

Before I
installed the (central) filter, if you picked up a phone to make a call
you could quite clearly hear a kind of white noise. You could make a
call as normal, but the white noise made it a little difficult to hear
what was going on,

I just recently gone ADSL, the ADSL was activated earlier than expected
and the filters etc. weren't fitted (I'm using the dangly plug in
filters until I figure out the wiring in this place, and get suitable
round tuit)

I could notice nothing different when picking up the phone. I don't know
how it would have affected the ADSL connection though. I guess it
depends on the phone itself ?

--
Chris French, Leeds

chris French wrote:

I could notice nothing different when picking up the phone. I don't know

Often the case in my experiance (installing several ADSL setups a month
typically)

how it would have affected the ADSL connection though. I guess it
depends on the phone itself ?

The voice usually has no effect - the picking up and/or replacing the
handset however often drops the ADSL carrier for a period (the duration
being dependent on how quick the modem/router gets its act together and
reconnects)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
And a load of noise on the phone?

ADSL signals start at 1MHz.
You should not be able to hear anything on the line without the filters.
If you do hear anything its not the ADSL.

Shoving high level carrier into a cordless phone base station might end
up with any result. Same, I'd guess, with ordinary phones. I got noise
on mine - and so have others I know.

The filters are there to stop the ADSL being interrupted by impedance
changes when you pick the phone up.

These changes in line impedance
cause retraining of the line and a break in access.

--
*Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.