Hi all,

I wonder if anyone of you can shed a little light on this.

Out of boredom, I turned all the RCD's off on the CU and then noticed
that the electricity meter was still turning. Admittedly not alot, but
enough to make me wonder why it was still turning when there was no
load.

Are they designed to rotate under no-load? Natural leakage?

The only thing attached directly to the meter is the CU and that was
switched off.

Any ideas?

TIA

Steve

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

I wonder if anyone of you can shed a little light on this.

Out of boredom, I turned all the RCD's off on the CU and then noticed
that the electricity meter was still turning. Admittedly not alot, but
enough to make me wonder why it was still turning when there was no
load.

Are they designed to rotate under no-load? Natural leakage?

The only thing attached directly to the meter is the CU and that was
switched off.

Any ideas?

TIA

Steve


If you are perfectly sure that there was nothing at all connected, and that
the meter was not supplying anything with even the smallest amount of juice,
which includes the light in the cupboard where the meter is sited, then get
the whole thing checked soon as possible. You're being charged money for
electricity that is doing nothing, mate.

Steve wrote:
Hi all,

I wonder if anyone of you can shed a little light on this.

Out of boredom, I turned all the RCD's off on the CU and then noticed
that the electricity meter was still turning. Admittedly not alot, but
enough to make me wonder why it was still turning when there was no
load.

Are they designed to rotate under no-load? Natural leakage?

The only thing attached directly to the meter is the CU and that was
switched off.

Any ideas?

TIA

Steve

you have a leak, obv


RT

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

I wonder if anyone of you can shed a little light on this.

Out of boredom, I turned all the RCD's off on the CU and then noticed
that the electricity meter was still turning. Admittedly not alot, but
enough to make me wonder why it was still turning when there was no
load.

Are they designed to rotate under no-load? Natural leakage?

The only thing attached directly to the meter is the CU and that was
switched off.

Any ideas?

If you feel competent to open your consumer unit (Be very careful if you do,
as there may be live bits exposed in there, even if you main isolator or RCD
is off!)

If you do open it, check to see if the wires that come from the meter (the
"Meter Tails") go into your main isolator switch or RCD, and are alone in
there.
Do you have a split load consumer unit, where one side is typically for
lighting, and the other is for other stuff? - If you do, then there will be
some wires exiting where the meter tails enter the isolator/RCD, going off
to the RCD or isolator on the second side. If this is the case, are there
any other wires going to this second isolator/RCD?

Sparks...

Are they designed to rotate under no-load? Natural leakage?

No, although meter "creep" can occur - per the other poster, you`re being
charged for this irrespective - get it sorted out !

--
Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email
--- My new email address has "ngspamtrap" & @btinternet.com in it ;-) ---

from as far as I can tell, wires go from 100A fuse to meter, then from
meter to main switch in CU.

No other wires go from the meter.

Hence, when I turned off the main switch in CU, I expected the meter
to stop. It didn't.

I suspect the meter is knackered.

Steve

"Steve" wrote in message
...
from as far as I can tell, wires go from 100A fuse to meter, then from
meter to main switch in CU.

No other wires go from the meter.

Hence, when I turned off the main switch in CU, I expected the meter
to stop. It didn't.

I suspect the meter is knackered.

Steve


But inside the consumer unit, at the main switch, there may be something
else connected to the continually live side of the switch, not the consumer
side. So you really need to look inside the consumer unit (fuse box) to see
if any other wires come from the main switch itself.

Also mentioned by another poster. Is the main consumer unit (fuse box) a
split load version, were the box itself might have two separate mains
switches to control the two different sections? These are normally wired by
one pair of tails from the meter, and have internal links between the two
mains switches. So you don't see any other wiring enter the box, but the
separate sections are both wired to continually to the mains supply.

Like this:

From the mains supply unit (100 A Fuse) on the head end out to the meter.
From the meter out to the first mains switch inside the consumer unit. From
the constantly live side of the first mains switch in the consumer unit out
to the second mains switch inside the consumer unit.

Get it?

"BigWallop" wrote in message
. uk...

"Steve" wrote in message
...
from as far as I can tell, wires go from 100A fuse to meter, then from
meter to main switch in CU.

No other wires go from the meter.

Hence, when I turned off the main switch in CU, I expected the meter
to stop. It didn't.

I suspect the meter is knackered.

Steve


But inside the consumer unit, at the main switch, there may be something
else connected to the continually live side of the switch, not the
consumer
side. So you really need to look inside the consumer unit (fuse box) to
see
if any other wires come from the main switch itself.

Also mentioned by another poster. Is the main consumer unit (fuse box) a
split load version, were the box itself might have two separate mains
switches to control the two different sections? These are normally wired
by
one pair of tails from the meter, and have internal links between the two
mains switches. So you don't see any other wiring enter the box, but the
separate sections are both wired to continually to the mains supply.

Like this:

From the mains supply unit (100 A Fuse) on the head end out to the meter.
From the meter out to the first mains switch inside the consumer unit.
From
the constantly live side of the first mains switch in the consumer unit
out
to the second mains switch inside the consumer unit.

Get it?

And if some eejit has been in there, maybe something else on this, feeding
another CU in the garage or such!

It does happen!

Sparks...

BigWallop wrote:
"Steve" wrote in message
...

The only thing attached directly to the meter is the CU and that was
switched off.

If you are perfectly sure that there was nothing at all connected, and that
the meter was not supplying anything with even the smallest amount of juice,
which includes the light in the cupboard where the meter is sited, then get
the whole thing checked soon as possible. You're being charged money for
electricity that is doing nothing, mate.

If that's the case, it might be worth trying to put a number on how fast
the meter is spinning when 'off', before you contact the supplier, in
order to get a handle on how much they might have been over-charging you
over how ever many years?

David

"Sparks" wrote in message
.. .

"BigWallop" wrote in message
. uk...

"Steve" wrote in message
...
from as far as I can tell, wires go from 100A fuse to meter, then from
meter to main switch in CU.

No other wires go from the meter.

Hence, when I turned off the main switch in CU, I expected the meter
to stop. It didn't.

I suspect the meter is knackered.

Steve


But inside the consumer unit, at the main switch, there may be something
else connected to the continually live side of the switch, not the
consumer
side. So you really need to look inside the consumer unit (fuse box) to
see
if any other wires come from the main switch itself.

Also mentioned by another poster. Is the main consumer unit (fuse box)
a
split load version, were the box itself might have two separate mains
switches to control the two different sections? These are normally
wired
by
one pair of tails from the meter, and have internal links between the
two
mains switches. So you don't see any other wiring enter the box, but
the
separate sections are both wired to continually to the mains supply.

Like this:

From the mains supply unit (100 A Fuse) on the head end out to the
meter.
From the meter out to the first mains switch inside the consumer unit.
From
the constantly live side of the first mains switch in the consumer unit
out
to the second mains switch inside the consumer unit.

Get it?

And if some eejit has been in there, maybe something else on this, feeding
another CU in the garage or such!

It does happen!

Sparks...



ROFL You better believe it happens. A few of years ago, I was sent to a
job where the meter tails were 10 mm csa' double insulated, which was OK
really, because they were, originally, only feeding a two way consumer unit
for a small lighting circuit and a two gang socket. If it had been left
that way, it would all have been fine. When I arrived on site, I nearly
fell over with fright at what I found.

From the two way box, a 5 way box had been added, connected to the two way
unit by a short piece of 6 mm csa' T&E. This unit, with all ways used, was
supplying double sockets on radial wiring to each. The socket wiring was,
I'm glad to say, run in 2.5 mm csa', so it wasn't so bad.

But then it only got worse. From the 5 way box, another two way unit had
been connected by another short piece of 6 mm csa' T&E, and this was to
supply another two double radial sockets for machinery outside the workshop
in the yard. All these sockets, and I mean all of them, where running
things like heaters, PC's and all the rest of it. With the outside sockets
mainly running welders, heavy metal cutting gear, angle grinders etc. etc.

The owner wondered why the insulation on the two poor little 10 mm csa'
meter tails was turning a strange colour, resembling a brownie black. Of
course, all this was done by the guy he met in bar who knew how to do this
type work, and, I have to admit, the wiring routes were tidy and well
secured, not covered, but well secured.

So it does happen. :-)

BigWallop wrote:
"Sparks" wrote in message
.. .

And if some eejit has been in there, maybe something else on this, feeding
another CU in the garage or such!

It does happen!

ROFL You better believe it happens. A few of years ago, I was sent to a

A joiner friend of mine tells the story of how he went on a job to fit a
wardrobe, and had to move a 13A socket which was in the way. Went
downstairs and turned off the main switch to the whole house (just to be
safe, he thought), came back upstairs and set to... next thing he
remembers is coming to on the far side of the room: it turned out that
the socket concerned had been wired in on the wrong side of the CU and
switch.

David

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:
"Sparks" wrote in message
.. .

And if some eejit has been in there, maybe something else on this,
feeding
another CU in the garage or such!

It does happen!

ROFL You better believe it happens. A few of years ago, I was sent to
a

A joiner friend of mine tells the story of how he went on a job to fit a
wardrobe, and had to move a 13A socket which was in the way. Went
downstairs and turned off the main switch to the whole house (just to be
safe, he thought), came back upstairs and set to... next thing he
remembers is coming to on the far side of the room: it turned out that
the socket concerned had been wired in on the wrong side of the CU and
switch.

David


Ouch!!! That would be a nasty shock (no pun intended). :-)

In article , Lobster wrote:
A joiner friend of mine tells the story of how he went on a job to fit
a wardrobe, and had to move a 13A socket which was in the way. Went
downstairs and turned off the main switch to the whole house (just to
be safe, he thought), came back upstairs and set to... next thing he
remembers is coming to on the far side of the room: it turned out that
the socket concerned had been wired in on the wrong side of the CU and
switch.

With the benefit of hindsight this may have been less than wise, but 10 or
so years ago when we replaced storage heaters in our rented flats with gas
ch the storage heater feeds were replaced with single sockets - i.e each a
separately fused 15A radial (off-peak CU feed moved to 24 hour side of
course).

It only shows that the only safe rule is never to assume anything.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.10 released 4 April 2005]

wrote in message ...
On 11 May,
"BigWallop" wrote:
A joiner friend of mine tells the story of how he went on a job to fit
a
wardrobe, and had to move a 13A socket which was in the way. Went
downstairs and turned off the main switch to the whole house (just to
be
safe, he thought), came back upstairs and set to... next thing he
remembers is coming to on the far side of the room: it turned out that
the socket concerned had been wired in on the wrong side of the CU and
switch.

David


Ouch!!! That would be a nasty shock (no pun intended). :-)

I know of a case where the upstairs lights were wired up to the adjacent
properties supply. They were paying for it as well.

B Thumbs


I've seen a job where some of the sockets in a flat were connected to the
lighting circuit of the shop below it. Weird looks were given, as you can
imagine, when I asked the shop manager if I could turn the lights off at
their box to rectify the wiring. :-)

BigWallop wrote:

I've seen a job where some of the sockets in a flat were connected to the
lighting circuit of the shop below it. Weird looks were given, as you can
imagine, when I asked the shop manager if I could turn the lights off at
their box to rectify the wiring. :-)

That doesn't seem too uncommon - possibly due to folk living over their
shops.

We used to run a shop. When the upstairs tenant moved out, we moved in and
discovered that they had been running their fridge and washing machine (and
possibly their air conditioner) on our shop's power.
We were paying for the gas to heat their hot water, too.

Sheila

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:

I've seen a job where some of the sockets in a flat were connected to
the
lighting circuit of the shop below it. Weird looks were given, as you
can
imagine, when I asked the shop manager if I could turn the lights off at
their box to rectify the wiring. :-)

That doesn't seem too uncommon - possibly due to folk living over their
shops.

We used to run a shop. When the upstairs tenant moved out, we moved in and
discovered that they had been running their fridge and washing machine
(and
possibly their air conditioner) on our shop's power.
We were paying for the gas to heat their hot water, too.

Sheila


But this flat had nothing to do with the shops. It was a tenement block
with commercial properties at street level and houses above them. :-) It
took a little while to explain to the shop manager what was going on. She
said that they hadn't noticed anything, and so wasn't going to take it any
further, thank goodness. That's the joys of living above a large franchise
outlet I suppose. :-)

BigWallop wrote:

But this flat had nothing to do with the shops. It was a tenement block
with commercial properties at street level and houses above them. :-) It
took a little while to explain to the shop manager what was going on. She
said that they hadn't noticed anything, and so wasn't going to take it any
further, thank goodness. That's the joys of living above a large franchise
outlet I suppose. :-)

Ours was in a block of five shops on the ground floor, and 6 flats above.
Correcting the wiring made a noticeable difference to the electric bill for
the shop.

Sheila

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:

But this flat had nothing to do with the shops. It was a tenement block
with commercial properties at street level and houses above them. :-)
It
took a little while to explain to the shop manager what was going on.
She
said that they hadn't noticed anything, and so wasn't going to take it
any
further, thank goodness. That's the joys of living above a large
franchise
outlet I suppose. :-)

Ours was in a block of five shops on the ground floor, and 6 flats above.
Correcting the wiring made a noticeable difference to the electric bill
for
the shop.

Sheila


ROFL!!! I bet it did. :-)

Tony Bryer wrote:

It only shows that the only safe rule is never to assume anything.

Very true. Thankfully I found that out quite early, after getting a
shock off the earth wire. Turned out the whole property earth system
was doubly faulty, and unfamiliar with any real earth. Due to
disconnection of earth, the ELCB wasnt doing anything about it either.

NT

BigWallop wrote:
"Sparks" wrote in message

It does happen!

Sparks...


ROFL You better believe it happens. A few of years ago, I was sent
to a
job where the meter tails were 10 mm csa' double insulated, which was
OK
really, because they were, originally, only feeding a two way
consumer unit
for a small lighting circuit and a two gang socket. If it had been
left
that way, it would all have been fine. When I arrived on site, I
nearly
fell over with fright at what I found.

From the two way box, a 5 way box had been added, connected to the
two way
unit by a short piece of 6 mm csa' T&E. This unit, with all ways
used, was
supplying double sockets on radial wiring to each. The socket wiring
was,
I'm glad to say, run in 2.5 mm csa', so it wasn't so bad.

But then it only got worse. From the 5 way box, another two way unit
had
been connected by another short piece of 6 mm csa' T&E, and this was
to
supply another two double radial sockets for machinery outside the
workshop
in the yard. All these sockets, and I mean all of them, where
running
things like heaters, PC's and all the rest of it. With the outside
sockets
mainly running welders, heavy metal cutting gear, angle grinders etc.
etc.

The owner wondered why the insulation on the two poor little 10 mm
csa'
meter tails was turning a strange colour, resembling a brownie black.
Of
course, all this was done by the guy he met in bar who knew how to do
this
type work, and, I have to admit, the wiring routes were tidy and well
secured, not covered, but well secured.

So it does happen. :-)

What a story! Reminds me of the sewing factory I saw wired in overhead
bellwire. How they got a room full of seamstresses to work there I'll
never know.

For the above setup to cook, presumably the fuses must have been
replaced with heavier wire, as otherwise the fuses would have popped
long before any wires fried IIUC.

NT

wrote:
On 11 May,
"BigWallop" wrote:

A joiner friend of mine tells the story of how he went on a job to fit a
wardrobe, and had to move a 13A socket which was in the way. Went
downstairs and turned off the main switch to the whole house (just to be
safe, he thought), came back upstairs and set to... next thing he
remembers is coming to on the far side of the room: it turned out that
the socket concerned had been wired in on the wrong side of the CU and
switch.

Ouch!!! That would be a nasty shock (no pun intended). :-)

He got struck by lightning once while on a job too - unlucky guy...

I know of a case where the upstairs lights were wired up to the adjacent
properties supply. They were paying for it as well.

My late granny-in-law, who for many years lived in a granny flat above
my m-i-l, had her own electric meters etc, and apparently always had
very low electric bills which of course she never exactly complained
about. It was only when the whole property was later sold - during
which the granny flat was physically separated from the downstairs flat
to be sold separately - that a sparks discovered that all the
electricity for the upstairs flat, except for the lights, bypassed the
meter completely (I gather he put it right, but nobody ever owned up to
the supply co!)

David

On Wed, 11 May 2005, Lobster wrote:

A joiner friend of mine tells the story of how he went on a job to fit a
wardrobe, and had to move a 13A socket which was in the way. Went downstairs
and turned off the main switch to the whole house (just to be safe, he
thought), came back upstairs and set to... next thing he remembers is coming
to on the far side of the room: it turned out that the socket concerned had
been wired in on the wrong side of the CU and switch.

I believe it used to be fairly common to wire clocks into the wrong side
of the CU isolator, so they kept running no matter what. Hopefully there
was some kind of fuse in there...

I once came across an electric shower wired in in 6mm2 (ok given distance
and power rating etc) wired into the wrong side of the CU isolator, with
no additional switch or fusing. The best bit was that there was
insufficient space for the bodging installer to get the wires into the
terminals alongside the meter tails, so some of the strands had been
chopped short so they would go in!


--
Alistair Riddell - BOFH
Microsoft - because god hates us

In message , Lobster
writes
BigWallop wrote:
"Sparks" wrote in message
.. .

And if some eejit has been in there, maybe something else on this, feeding
another CU in the garage or such!

It does happen!

ROFL You better believe it happens. A few of years ago, I was sent to a

A joiner friend of mine tells the story of how he went on a job to fit
a wardrobe, and had to move a 13A socket which was in the way. Went
downstairs and turned off the main switch to the whole house (just to
be safe, he thought), came back upstairs and set to... next thing he
remembers is coming to on the far side of the room: it turned out that
the socket concerned had been wired in on the wrong side of the CU and
switch.

In our last house there was socket wired into the Henley block twixt the
Meter and the CU. At least this was obvious.


--
Chris French, Leeds

wrote in message
ups.com...
BigWallop wrote:
"Sparks" wrote in message

snipped
So it does happen. :-)

What a story! Reminds me of the sewing factory I saw wired in overhead
bellwire. How they got a room full of seamstresses to work there I'll
never know.

For the above setup to cook, presumably the fuses must have been
replaced with heavier wire, as otherwise the fuses would have popped
long before any wires fried IIUC.

NT


I think all the fuses were 30 Amps rewireable, if my memory serves me right,
and that was for the lighting circuit as well. The mains fuse had also been
changed from the original 60 Amps to a 100 Amps, but I think that was done
by the owner himself, maybe on advice from the bloke who these sorts of
things, because the 60 Amps fuse had already been popped.

As I told the owner, you are getting more heat from the electrical supply
itself, than you are from all these heaters you have. :-)

Lobster wrote:
...It was only when the whole property was later sold - during
which the granny flat was physically separated from the downstairs flat
to be sold separately - that a sparks discovered that all the
electricity for the upstairs flat, except for the lights, bypassed the
meter completely (I gather he put it right, but nobody ever owned up to
the supply co!)

The electricians who wired my apartment building never put in a meter
for the communal supply. A neighbour is convinced the stair lights,
carpark floodlights, and whatever someone has connected to some 2.5mm
that appears out of the communal supply CU and disappears into a flat,
is paid for by the council.

The electricians never put an earth in either.

"Floppy Bunny"

BigWallop wrote:
wrote in message

As I told the owner, you are getting more heat from the electrical
supply
itself, than you are from all these heaters you have. :-)

hehe

On Wed, 11 May 2005 01:47:45 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:

"Sparks" wrote in message
. ..

And if some eejit has been in there, maybe something else on this, feeding
another CU in the garage or such!

ROFL You better believe it happens. A few of years ago, I was sent to a
job where the meter tails were 10 mm csa' double insulated, which was OK
really, because they were, originally, only feeding a two way consumer unit
for a small lighting circuit and a two gang socket. If it had been left
that way, it would all have been fine. When I arrived on site, I nearly
fell over with fright at what I found.

From the two way box, a 5 way box had been added, connected to the two way
unit by a short piece of 6 mm csa' T&E. This unit, with all ways used, was
supplying double sockets on radial wiring to each. The socket wiring was,
I'm glad to say, run in 2.5 mm csa', so it wasn't so bad.

But then it only got worse. From the 5 way box, another two way unit had
been connected by another short piece of 6 mm csa' T&E, and this was to
supply another two double radial sockets for machinery outside the workshop
in the yard. All these sockets, and I mean all of them, where running
things like heaters, PC's and all the rest of it. With the outside sockets
mainly running welders, heavy metal cutting gear, angle grinders etc. etc.

The owner wondered why the insulation on the two poor little 10 mm csa'
meter tails was turning a strange colour, resembling a brownie black. Of
course, all this was done by the guy he met in bar who knew how to do this
type work, and, I have to admit, the wiring routes were tidy and well
secured, not covered, but well secured.

It's nice when somebody takes pride in their work

I came across an Edwardian villa that had been turned into 10 bedsits
where the owner had put a coin-meter and small consumer unit in each
room. The rest of the wiring in each bedsit was run in trunking from
the consumer unit.

So far so good.

Rather than running new cables back to the main supply in the cellar,
their "electrician" had however connected the new coin-meters to
whatever existing cable had been handy.

There must have been a few blown fuses at first, but the skilled
tradesman had fixed these by replacing the wire in the original
ceramic fuses with a more robust product.

Given that some of the old cables were rubber coated, former lighting
circuits, it's surprising that nothing actually caught fire. The
situation only came to light when a cold snap resulted in sufficient
3kW heaters being added to blow the board's fuse.

My current horror story is at http://www.scaelectrical.co.uk/ouch/

John
--
John White
SCA Electrical, Manchester http://www.scaelectrical.co.uk/
Domestic and commercial electrical contractors