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Scoot
 
Posts: n/a
Default Huge water bill; freeze; meter failure; who should pay?

I am facing a one-month water bill for $1,800 on a vacant house.
It's the result of winter freezes that broke -- not my pipes -- but
the Water Company meter installed in my basement. I'm hoping that
someone here has seen (or, hopefully not, experienced) a similar
catastrophe and can tell me how the issue was resolved.

Background: I live in California. When my mother passed away two
years ago, she left me our first family home, a small two-bedroom
cottage in New England. I visited the house last summer and, when I
left, closed all the valves on water pipes leading from the meter in
my basement to other parts of the house.

Late this spring, I received an emergency call from the Water Company.
The caller said my most recent meter reading was very high, and a
supervisor who went to check my (vacant) house heard water running
inside. He shut down the street supply and told his company to notify
me in California.

I called a next-door neighbor who had the key to my place; and he went
inside with the Water Company supervisor to take a look. In the
basement where the water meter was mounted (an underground,
cinder-block constructed partial basement about 15 x 25'), there was
about a half-inch of standing water. The neighbor, the Water Company
supervisor, and a handyman I hired to vacuum out the water, all say
they saw no signs that the basement had been flooded above that 1/2"
level.

Despite this, the Water Company says my vacant house used 385,000
gallons of water in the month prior to the leak discovery. The rep
says a "freeze plate" on the water meter broke, and that was the
source of my $1,800 leak.

This leads to several questions that I hope anyone who's read this far
can help me with.

Is it possible for 385,000 gallons of water, in an 15 x 25' chamber
with =no= history of dampness from the outside, to simply disappear?
(Again, there were no water-marks on the walls, peeled stickers at
about 9" high on a floor-mounted furnace near the water meter, or
anything else to indicate flooding above the 1/2" level that everyone
saw.)

Is 385,000 gallons even reasonable for the flow expected from a broken
water meter "freeze plate" in a month's time?

And, if anyone has been in this position before, is the Water Company
on solid ground in charging me for a spill that came from a failure in
their own equipment? (If I hadn't shut off the valves coming out of
the meter, and/or my own pipes had broken, I'd feel differently about
this.)

I have put these questions, in a gentlemanly way, to the Water
Company. The rep now has agreed to send the meter out for
"verification" -- to see whether it produced correct readings for the
amount of water I'm being charged for. But I'm told that if the meter
checks out correctly, there's no further avenue for appeal.

Any conclusions, suggestions, condolences?

Thanks,
Scoot

  #2   Report Post  
wayne
 
Posts: n/a
Default Huge water bill; freeze; meter failure; who should pay?

Did their equipment fail because you didn't heat the house?

at 6 gallons/minute that would come out to 260,000 gallons

I would wait for the test to come back on the meter.

then call the testing company and ask them a few questions

You do realize that by letting the house get below freezing you may well
have caused problems with pipes in the walls freezing too?

Wayne


"Scoot" wrote in message
...
I am facing a one-month water bill for $1,800 on a vacant house.
It's the result of winter freezes that broke -- not my pipes -- but
the Water Company meter installed in my basement. I'm hoping that
someone here has seen (or, hopefully not, experienced) a similar
catastrophe and can tell me how the issue was resolved.

Background: I live in California. When my mother passed away two
years ago, she left me our first family home, a small two-bedroom
cottage in New England. I visited the house last summer and, when I
left, closed all the valves on water pipes leading from the meter in
my basement to other parts of the house.

Late this spring, I received an emergency call from the Water Company.
The caller said my most recent meter reading was very high, and a
supervisor who went to check my (vacant) house heard water running
inside. He shut down the street supply and told his company to notify
me in California.

I called a next-door neighbor who had the key to my place; and he went
inside with the Water Company supervisor to take a look. In the
basement where the water meter was mounted (an underground,
cinder-block constructed partial basement about 15 x 25'), there was
about a half-inch of standing water. The neighbor, the Water Company
supervisor, and a handyman I hired to vacuum out the water, all say
they saw no signs that the basement had been flooded above that 1/2"
level.

Despite this, the Water Company says my vacant house used 385,000
gallons of water in the month prior to the leak discovery. The rep
says a "freeze plate" on the water meter broke, and that was the
source of my $1,800 leak.

This leads to several questions that I hope anyone who's read this far
can help me with.

Is it possible for 385,000 gallons of water, in an 15 x 25' chamber
with =no= history of dampness from the outside, to simply disappear?
(Again, there were no water-marks on the walls, peeled stickers at
about 9" high on a floor-mounted furnace near the water meter, or
anything else to indicate flooding above the 1/2" level that everyone
saw.)

Is 385,000 gallons even reasonable for the flow expected from a broken
water meter "freeze plate" in a month's time?

And, if anyone has been in this position before, is the Water Company
on solid ground in charging me for a spill that came from a failure in
their own equipment? (If I hadn't shut off the valves coming out of
the meter, and/or my own pipes had broken, I'd feel differently about
this.)

I have put these questions, in a gentlemanly way, to the Water
Company. The rep now has agreed to send the meter out for
"verification" -- to see whether it produced correct readings for the
amount of water I'm being charged for. But I'm told that if the meter
checks out correctly, there's no further avenue for appeal.

Any conclusions, suggestions, condolences?

Thanks,
Scoot



  #3   Report Post  
mark Ransley
 
Posts: n/a
Default Huge water bill; freeze; meter failure; who should pay?

another troll

  #4   Report Post  
jim
 
Posts: n/a
Default Huge water bill; freeze; meter failure; who should pay?

Scoot wrote:

I am facing a one-month water bill for $1,800 on a vacant house.
It's the result of winter freezes that broke -- not my pipes -- but
the Water Company meter installed in my basement. I'm hoping that
someone here has seen (or, hopefully not, experienced) a similar
catastrophe and can tell me how the issue was resolved.

Background: I live in California. When my mother passed away two
years ago, she left me our first family home, a small two-bedroom
cottage in New England. I visited the house last summer and, when I
left, closed all the valves on water pipes leading from the meter in
my basement to other parts of the house.

Late this spring, I received an emergency call from the Water Company.
The caller said my most recent meter reading was very high, and a
supervisor who went to check my (vacant) house heard water running
inside. He shut down the street supply and told his company to notify
me in California.

I called a next-door neighbor who had the key to my place; and he went
inside with the Water Company supervisor to take a look. In the
basement where the water meter was mounted (an underground,
cinder-block constructed partial basement about 15 x 25'), there was
about a half-inch of standing water. The neighbor, the Water Company
supervisor, and a handyman I hired to vacuum out the water, all say
they saw no signs that the basement had been flooded above that 1/2"
level.

Despite this, the Water Company says my vacant house used 385,000
gallons of water in the month prior to the leak discovery. The rep
says a "freeze plate" on the water meter broke, and that was the
source of my $1,800 leak.

This leads to several questions that I hope anyone who's read this far
can help me with.

Is it possible for 385,000 gallons of water, in an 15 x 25' chamber
with =no= history of dampness from the outside, to simply disappear?
(Again, there were no water-marks on the walls, peeled stickers at
about 9" high on a floor-mounted furnace near the water meter, or
anything else to indicate flooding above the 1/2" level that everyone
saw.)

Is 385,000 gallons even reasonable for the flow expected from a broken
water meter "freeze plate" in a month's time?

And, if anyone has been in this position before, is the Water Company
on solid ground in charging me for a spill that came from a failure in
their own equipment? (If I hadn't shut off the valves coming out of
the meter, and/or my own pipes had broken, I'd feel differently about
this.)

I have put these questions, in a gentlemanly way, to the Water
Company. The rep now has agreed to send the meter out for
"verification" -- to see whether it produced correct readings for the
amount of water I'm being charged for. But I'm told that if the meter
checks out correctly, there's no further avenue for appeal.

Any conclusions, suggestions, condolences?

Thanks,
Scoot

in my area when you have a problem with the water from a break and you
have a licensed plumber repair it and claim that there was a leakage
from the break then you dont pay for the water(it does not matter if it
was on your property).... the break is what caused the leak and you dont
pay, only pay what the average was on the bill for the previous month
last year.....
do you have a drain in the basement?? if so that is where the water went
so thats why it only went up to an inch or so.....
  #5   Report Post  
Tom J
 
Posts: n/a
Default Huge water bill; freeze; meter failure; who should pay?


"Eric Tonks" wrote in message
i.com...
If you read your insurance policy -- you do have insurance -- in cold
climates, you will most likely find a clause exempting them from paying out
if the house is vacant and not inspected every 48 hours. The question is
what was the neighbor doing with the key, holding it for good luck. He
should have been checking the house on a regular basis. It is also very bad
to leave a house unheated through winter without extensive preparations. If
you could prove you did things right, possibly your insurance company would
pay out.


How is he going to prove he did things right when he turned the heat off with
exposed pipes in his basement where the temperature drops to way below zero
for hours and sometimes days, even if they were before the meter?

Tom J




  #6   Report Post  
mark Ransley
 
Posts: n/a
Default Huge water bill; freeze; meter failure; who should pay?

Scoot sorry for calling you a troll, at the time you posted last night ,
my cloan was trolling and posting at different sites, there were alot of
bs posts and I thought yours was a troll to, sorry. Does your basement
have a drain or sump pump, It was vacant you say, utility and phone will
show this.. A freeze may have moved the guage. Once a meter guy came to
my place, said we used no water for 3 months and checked all wires ,
everything, , he was looking to see how we disabled the remote reader..
After a few hours he was convinced we cheated, I asked if he checked the
outside reader, he said they cannot go bad, I told him try a new one we
were hit by lightning, he did, the outside reader was bad. He told me,
he was tought this was impossible ,, but it was bad..
The average supply puts out 4 to 5 gal min. 385000 is equal to more
than 8 .9 gal min. more than enough to fill 10 good swimming pools,
this amount should be to amazing for your water co to beleive is
nothing other than a freak freeze problem. the rep said freeze plate,,I
say it jammed the gears in freezing, Either way you have to fight
it,,,, demand the bad meter back, for independant testing, in writing,
today.. and talk to the rep that said it was frozen...

  #7   Report Post  
Gary Slusser
 
Posts: n/a
Default Huge water bill; freeze; meter failure; who should pay?


"Scoot" wrote
I am facing a one-month water bill for $1,800 on a vacant house.
It's the result of winter freezes that broke -- not my pipes -- but
the Water Company meter installed in my basement. I'm hoping that
someone here has seen (or, hopefully not, experienced) a similar
catastrophe and can tell me how the issue was resolved.

Background: I live in California. When my mother passed away two
years ago, she left me our first family home, a small two-bedroom
cottage in New England. I visited the house last summer and, when I
left, closed all the valves on water pipes leading from the meter in
my basement to other parts of the house.

Late this spring, I received an emergency call from the Water Company.
The caller said my most recent meter reading was very high, and a
supervisor who went to check my (vacant) house heard water running
inside. He shut down the street supply and told his company to notify
me in California.

I called a next-door neighbor who had the key to my place; and he went
inside with the Water Company supervisor to take a look. In the
basement where the water meter was mounted (an underground,
cinder-block constructed partial basement about 15 x 25'), there was
about a half-inch of standing water. The neighbor, the Water Company
supervisor, and a handyman I hired to vacuum out the water, all say
they saw no signs that the basement had been flooded above that 1/2"
level.

Despite this, the Water Company says my vacant house used 385,000
gallons of water in the month prior to the leak discovery. The rep
says a "freeze plate" on the water meter broke, and that was the
source of my $1,800 leak.

This leads to several questions that I hope anyone who's read this far
can help me with.

Is it possible for 385,000 gallons of water, in an 15 x 25' chamber
with =no= history of dampness from the outside, to simply disappear?
(Again, there were no water-marks on the walls, peeled stickers at
about 9" high on a floor-mounted furnace near the water meter, or
anything else to indicate flooding above the 1/2" level that everyone
saw.)

Is 385,000 gallons even reasonable for the flow expected from a broken
water meter "freeze plate" in a month's time?

And, if anyone has been in this position before, is the Water Company
on solid ground in charging me for a spill that came from a failure in
their own equipment? (If I hadn't shut off the valves coming out of
the meter, and/or my own pipes had broken, I'd feel differently about
this.)

I have put these questions, in a gentlemanly way, to the Water
Company. The rep now has agreed to send the meter out for
"verification" -- to see whether it produced correct readings for the
amount of water I'm being charged for. But I'm told that if the meter
checks out correctly, there's no further avenue for appeal.

Any conclusions, suggestions, condolences?

Thanks,
Scoot


It's amazing how much water can flow when it has 24 hours/day to do so.
Sorry to hear about your problem, talk to someone about how to freeze
protect (minimum 50f) an unlived in house. If you didn't protect the
meter and water line plumbing from freezing and drain the lines and use
antifreeze in the toilets etc...., why shouldn't you be held
responsible; it's your house?

You really need to check the rest of the water lines (pressure test) and
such and maybe thank the freeze plate on the meter if it prevented other
freeze damage. If not and you didn't get the insurance right while you
visited, don't expect any coverage.


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Gary Slusser
 
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Default Huge water bill; freeze; meter failure; who should pay?


"mark Ransley" wrote
Scoot sorry for calling you a troll, at the time you posted last night

,
my cloan was trolling and posting at different sites, there were alot

of
bs posts and I thought yours was a troll to, sorry. Does your

basement
have a drain or sump pump, It was vacant you say, utility and phone

will
show this.. A freeze may have moved the guage. Once a meter guy came

to
my place, said we used no water for 3 months and checked all wires ,
everything, , he was looking to see how we disabled the remote

reader..
After a few hours he was convinced we cheated, I asked if he checked

the
outside reader, he said they cannot go bad, I told him try a new one

we
were hit by lightning, he did, the outside reader was bad. He told me,
he was tought this was impossible ,, but it was bad..
The average supply puts out 4 to 5 gal min. 385000 is equal to more
than 8 .9 gal min. more than enough to fill 10 good swimming pools,
this amount should be to amazing for your water co to beleive is
nothing other than a freak freeze problem. the rep said freeze

plate,,I
say it jammed the gears in freezing, Either way you have to fight
it,,,, demand the bad meter back, for independant testing, in writing,
today.. and talk to the rep that said it was frozen...


Given 'normal' city water pressure, or as little as 50 psi on a well
water system, you get much more than 4-5 gpm from an open ended 1/2"
line; more like 8, and if the line was 3/4" which is usually the minimum
service line size around here.... you can push double digits. Now if the
line were 1", you go mid to high 20s gpm. So it depends on the service
line ID and the meter (usually 5/8" around here) but the size of the
freeze plug/plate hole and pressure.

Gary
Quality Water Associates


  #9   Report Post  
Jeff Cochran
 
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Default Huge water bill; freeze; meter failure; who should pay?

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 04:17:52 -0700, Scoot
wrote:

I am facing a one-month water bill for $1,800 on a vacant house.
It's the result of winter freezes that broke -- not my pipes -- but
the Water Company meter installed in my basement. I'm hoping that
someone here has seen (or, hopefully not, experienced) a similar
catastrophe and can tell me how the issue was resolved.


Our local water department routinely resolves pipe breaks in favor of
the customer. I also once had a meter freeze and split, and was not
charged for the water that month. But...

I don't live in your jurisdiction. My experience may have no bearing
on yours. Your best bet is to work it out there.

Jeff
  #10   Report Post  
Wade Lippman
 
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Default Huge water bill; freeze; meter failure; who should pay?


Is it possible for 385,000 gallons of water, in an 15 x 25' chamber
with =no= history of dampness from the outside, to simply disappear?


No one seemed to address this one.
I got 5' of water in my basement when a creek dammed up during a power
outage. When they undammed the creek, the 5' drained away almost
immediately.
So, without knowing anything about your basement, it seems entirely
possible.




  #11   Report Post  
Don Wiss
 
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Default Huge water bill; freeze; meter failure; who should pay?

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Greg O wrote:

I have seen people "save" money by shutting off the heat and water for the
winter in a vacant home, then finding out when the water is turned on that
when they drained the pipes some water got trapped and then froze and broke
the pipes. Ending up costing much more for repair than to heat the place.


Scoot didn't say that he's turned the water back on yet. He may also broken
pipes.

Don donwiss at panix.com.
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