I am constructing a 20' tower out of angle iron. I think
I want to weld plates with holes to the pieces of angle
iron and then bolt the plates together, I think.

Where can I find the plates with the holes?

I'm using 2 1/2 x 2 /12 x 3/16 angle iron.

Al Smith wrote:
I am constructing a 20' tower out of angle iron. I think
I want to weld plates with holes to the pieces of angle
iron and then bolt the plates together, I think.

Where can I find the plates with the holes?

Have you considered buying a bag of holes, and a hammer?

No??!!

This is why I come here - to get expert, enlightened information
that I could never find by myself.

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Al Smith wrote:
I am constructing a 20' tower out of angle iron. I think
I want to weld plates with holes to the pieces of angle
iron and then bolt the plates together, I think.

Where can I find the plates with the holes?

Have you considered buying a bag of holes, and a hammer?

Al, perhaps you should consider buying a ready-made tower. Or maybe
you'd like to get into metalworking, and then you could make your
own plates. If you lived near me I'd be happy to give you a good bid
on fabricating steel to your design. If you go looking for someone to
make them up for you look for someone with an ironworker which can
shear and punch.

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

Al Smith wrote:

I am constructing a 20' tower out of angle iron. I think
I want to weld plates with holes to the pieces of angle
iron and then bolt the plates together, I think.

Where can I find the plates with the holes?

I'm using 2 1/2 x 2 /12 x 3/16 angle iron.

Every major steel supplier and fencing dealer in town sells 4 hole stamped
plates. Where have you looked?

Joel. phx

"Al Smith" wrote in message
...
No??!!

This is why I come here - to get expert, enlightened information
that I could never find by myself.

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Al Smith wrote:
I am constructing a 20' tower out of angle iron. I think
I want to weld plates with holes to the pieces of angle
iron and then bolt the plates together, I think.

Where can I find the plates with the holes?

Have you considered buying a bag of holes, and a hammer?

Al Smith wrote: (clip) Where can I find the plates with the holes?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I can send you all the holes you want. How many do you need? You pay
postage--which should not be much, since holes are very light.

check out uni-strut, they have plate connectors.
lg
no neat sig line
"Al Smith" wrote in message
...
I am constructing a 20' tower out of angle iron. I think
I want to weld plates with holes to the pieces of angle
iron and then bolt the plates together, I think.

Where can I find the plates with the holes?

I'm using 2 1/2 x 2 /12 x 3/16 angle iron.

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:51:15 -0400, "Al Smith"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Al

I am not sure why you have posted again, as you had some genuine
replies to the other post, but all sarcasm aside, your question does
sound a bit weird and lends itself to questionable replies, I am
afraid.

As I said before, towers are designed so that there can be quite high
stress points.

If I am right you are looking at a windmill tower, for a wide-bladed
windmill. These are subject to quite high stresses in high winds, and
vibratory stresses all the time.

If you cannot drill a hole in a piece of metal, can you weld well,
etc? I still reckon you will be better off drilling the angle, or
bolting the cheek plates to the angle.

Basically you are taking on quite a project. You either have to get
the tools, or get the job doen for your, or use hand tools and grit
your teeth and get down to it.

If you do not have a drill press, even a cheap one, then it's back to
hand drills.

No??!!

This is why I come here - to get expert, enlightened information
that I could never find by myself.

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Al Smith wrote:
I am constructing a 20' tower out of angle iron. I think
I want to weld plates with holes to the pieces of angle
iron and then bolt the plates together, I think.

Where can I find the plates with the holes?

Have you considered buying a bag of holes, and a hammer?


************************************************** ***
It's not the milk and honey we hate. It's having it
rammed down our throats.

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:51:15 -0400, "Al Smith"
wrote:
"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Al Smith wrote:

I am constructing a 20' tower out of angle iron. I think
I want to weld plates with holes to the pieces of angle
iron and then bolt the plates together, I think.

Where can I find the plates with the holes?

Have you considered buying a bag of holes, and a hammer?

No??!!

This is why I come here - to get expert, enlightened information
that I could never find by myself.

How about this - get a book from the public library on building
towers, and/or crib some design ideas from commercially built towers.
And after the basic design has been decided on, go get some
professional engineering help...

Because when towers fall over and people get hurt or killed, the
lawyers will get involved. And unless you get a specific rider ahead
of time to cover your tower (which will require engineering studies
and probably a building permit) your current homeowners' insurer might
just start laughing when they're asked to pay claims...

I would steal some ideas from the old steel lattice high-tension
power line towers, myself. All the splice points on those uprights
are reinforced with heavy angle backing plates on both sides that
extend a foot or more onto each piece of angle, and lots of bolts.
There is a lot of cross-bracing to stand up to wind forces. And the
footings go a lot deeper than you would think, due to wind forces.

All the bolt holes are punched with an ironworker machine, because
you'd go nuts making all those holes cleanly and accurately with a
torch or drill press. And welding it together can't be done, because
you can't weld after galvanizing. You can get a hand-held hydraulic
C-frame power punch if you don't want to buy a full ironworker.

And every piece is cleaned and hot-dip galvanized before they put it
all together - because you won't be able to take the bolted splices
apart to paint later, and rust will eat it up from the inside out.

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 02:27:31 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

This is why I come here - to get expert, enlightened information
that I could never find by myself.

I would steal some ideas from the old steel lattice high-tension
power line towers, myself. All the splice points on those uprights
are reinforced with heavy angle backing plates on both sides that
extend a foot or more onto each piece of angle, and lots of bolts.
There is a lot of cross-bracing to stand up to wind forces. And the
footings go a lot deeper than you would think, due to wind forces.

Yes. The guy who owned our block before us had a windmill simply blow
over in a strong SouEaster. Not even a storm. Just a good strong wind.
He did not put enough footing in.

This is one of the reasons they use the narrow blades for the huge
gensets.
************************************************** ***
It's not the milk and honey we hate. It's having it
rammed down our throats.

"Old Nick" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:51:15 -0400, "Al Smith"
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Al

I am not sure why you have posted again, as you had some genuine
replies to the other post,

I don't remember. If there were genuine replies, they didn't help
with the design.

but all sarcasm aside, your question does
sound a bit weird and lends itself to questionable replies, I am
afraid.

I don't think so. I thought it was a really good question. I concluded
that the "questionable replies" were from morons, but I could be wrong.


As I said before, towers are designed so that there can be quite high
stress points.


I suppose. I searched the literature very dilligently for information on
the design of towers. I couldn't find anything - hence, the "questionalbe"
question.

If I am right you are looking at a windmill tower, for a wide-bladed
windmill. These are subject to quite high stresses in high winds, and
vibratory stresses all the time.

That can be true. I am a mechanical engineer. Although I have and
no previous experience in the design of towers, the basic concepts
are familiar to me.


If you cannot drill a hole in a piece of metal,

Sure, I can drill a hole, but that will weaken the component.

can you weld well,

I can weld, maybe not well.

etc? I still reckon you will be better off drilling the angle, or
bolting the cheek plates to the angle.


No, I don't think so. It will weaken the member greatly.

Basically you are taking on quite a project.

I think so, too. If it works as I think it can, it will be
quite a project.

You either have to get
the tools, or get the job doen for your, or use hand tools and grit
your teeth and get down to it.

But I don't want to have to go down to the level of digging
iron ore, building a huge fire, etc.

That was the information I was hoping to get here.



If you do not have a drill press, even a cheap one, then it's back to
hand drills.

No??!!

This is why I come here - to get expert, enlightened information
that I could never find by myself.

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Al Smith wrote:
I am constructing a 20' tower out of angle iron. I think
I want to weld plates with holes to the pieces of angle
iron and then bolt the plates together, I think.

Where can I find the plates with the holes?

Have you considered buying a bag of holes, and a hammer?


************************************************** ***
It's not the milk and honey we hate. It's having it
rammed down our throats.

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:51:15 -0400, "Al Smith"
wrote:
"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Al Smith wrote:

I am constructing a 20' tower out of angle iron. I think
I want to weld plates with holes to the pieces of angle
iron and then bolt the plates together, I think.

Where can I find the plates with the holes?

Have you considered buying a bag of holes, and a hammer?

No??!!

This is why I come here - to get expert, enlightened information
that I could never find by myself.

How about this - get a book from the public library on building
towers, and/or crib some design ideas from commercially built towers.
And after the basic design has been decided on, go get some
professional engineering help...

Because when towers fall over and people get hurt or killed, the
lawyers will get involved. And unless you get a specific rider ahead
of time to cover your tower (which will require engineering studies
and probably a building permit) your current homeowners' insurer might
just start laughing when they're asked to pay claims...

I would steal some ideas from the old steel lattice high-tension
power line towers, myself. All the splice points on those uprights
are reinforced with heavy angle backing plates on both sides that
extend a foot or more onto each piece of angle, and lots of bolts.
There is a lot of cross-bracing to stand up to wind forces. And the
footings go a lot deeper than you would think, due to wind forces.

All the bolt holes are punched with an ironworker machine, because
you'd go nuts making all those holes cleanly and accurately with a
torch or drill press. And welding it together can't be done, because
you can't weld after galvanizing. You can get a hand-held hydraulic
C-frame power punch if you don't want to buy a full ironworker.

And every piece is cleaned and hot-dip galvanized before they put it
all together - because you won't be able to take the bolted splices
apart to paint later, and rust will eat it up from the inside out.

-- Bruce --
--

Geez. And all I asked for was the the name of a supplier of some steel
plates with holes in them.


Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

Just as a reference point.

This weekend I went by a fire tower. This was supported by an angle
iron frame.

The verticals were spliced with smaller angles place inside the large
angles. The horizontal and diagonal pieces were bolted to the vertical
angles. There were no junction plates that I could see.

Howard

Yaaa.. Arrgggg.

I have a small drill press, a small welder, and a hack saw.

That is going to be a lot of work.

Cutting the angles. Drilling the angles.

If I gotta do it, I gotta do it, but I still believe
that somewhere are the pieces that will cut the
job to 1/10 of all that work.

"Howard R Garner" wrote in message
...
Just as a reference point.

This weekend I went by a fire tower. This was supported by an angle
iron frame.

The verticals were spliced with smaller angles place inside the large
angles. The horizontal and diagonal pieces were bolted to the vertical
angles. There were no junction plates that I could see.

Howard

"Al Smith" wrote in message
...

"Old Nick" wrote in message

I am not sure why you have posted again, as you had some genuine
replies to the other post,

I don't remember. If there were genuine replies, they didn't help
with the design.

You're wrong. But it's clear from your replies you're not interested in
anything anyone here has to say.

Joel. phx

"Geez. And all I asked for was the the name of a supplier of some steel
plates with holes in them."

And where have you looked?

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:45:15 -0400, "Al Smith"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email


Aaaah! Fercrissake!
************************************************** ***
Marriage. Where two people decide to get together so
that neither of them can do what they want to because
of the other one.

"Al Smith" wrote in message
...


Geez. And all I asked for was the the name of a supplier of some steel
plates with holes in them.


Al,

Go to www.google.com and search on "steel supplier". I got 1,580,000 hits
in .80 seconds. Surely you have .80 seconds to devote to this undertaking.
Call one of the steel suppliers and ask them for "steel plates with holes in
them." No doubt they will ask you a bunch of stupid questions that will
upset you. Persevere until you find what you want. When I search on "hole
suppliers" I only got 304,000 hits in .28 seconds. I think looking for
steel with holes in it will yield more fruit than looking for holes with
steel around it, but I could be wrong.

If you live in a medium sized town you probably have 1 or 2 steel suppliers
locally. You can try the Yellow Pages as well. That's what I do when I
want to buy something locally.

George

gglines wrote:
"Al Smith" ... wrote ...
Geez. And all I asked for was the the name of a supplier of some steel
plates with holes in them.
....
Call one of the steel suppliers and ask them for "steel plates with holes in
them." No doubt they will ask you a bunch of stupid questions that will
upset you. Persevere until you find what you want. When I search on "hole
suppliers" I only got 304,000 hits in .28 seconds. I think looking for
steel with holes in it will yield more fruit than looking for holes with
steel around it, but I could be wrong.
....

You might be right ~ google for ""steel with holes" shows 382 hits, vs
only 232 for "holes with steel" ~ or maybe not, since not too many of
the former hits seem relevant. There's an interesting reference on
its fourth page: http://www.bikernet.com/news/images/PhotoID5156.jpg
shows some weird welding; http://www.bikernet.com/garage/justinstrophy.asp
has the story, including bits like `His law of welding was, "Never lose the
bead [...] even if you catch fire. Just keep welding, someone will put you
out."' but otherwise slim pickings. In contrast, the third hit from "holes
with steel" http://www.knom.org/essays/tower.html actually is relevant
("Sam drove to the site in his rickety pickup truck, with Pfeifer (left) and
Busch in back, sitting atop cases of dynamite with blasting caps jingling in
their pockets. At Sam's direction, the two maintained a driftwood fire,
heating immense steel chisels until they glowed red, and with sledgehammers, pounded the sizzling chisels into the permafrost.") to something or other.

Now, some gratuitous items of advice for the OP, Al Smith --

1. Here are some plates, but maybe not heavy enough, or too expensive, etc:
http://www.iboats.com/products/7/471...olt_plate.html
http://www.fortune3.com/~comp66099/p...16847--47.html

2. If you want to weld (to attach plates) why not just weld the
tower together instead of bolting it?

3. If you want to cut metal on the cheap, here's a $57 (on sale) bandsaw -
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=47840
and the following $80 drill press probably can drill 1/2" holes ok -
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44836

4. As your tower is only 20' high, you could just buy a 40' length of
3-inch or 4-inch schedule 40 steel pipe - available most anywhere - and
cut off the right length and use that as a tower without additional bother.

5. Apparently you are concerned that drilling into your 2.5"x2.5"x3/16"
angle iron will weaken it, and you want to weld plates on so you can bolt
parts together via the plates. While drilled holes will weaken the steel,
the main effect will be that it bends easier near holes. But if your
structure has suitable triangles it won't bend before the metal tears.
If you put 1/2" holes near the midline of a side, so there is about 1" of
border, tearout should be not much more of a problem than bolt shear on
this size of tower, and unless you are a good welder, no more of a problem
than welded parts breaking off.
-jiw

"James Waldby" wrote in message
...
gglines wrote:
"Al Smith" ... wrote ...
Geez. And all I asked for was the the name of a supplier of some
steel
plates with holes in them.
...
Call one of the steel suppliers and ask them for "steel plates with
holes in
them." No doubt they will ask you a bunch of stupid questions that will
upset you. Persevere until you find what you want. When I search on
"hole
suppliers" I only got 304,000 hits in .28 seconds. I think looking for
steel with holes in it will yield more fruit than looking for holes with
steel around it, but I could be wrong.
...

You might be right ~ google for ""steel with holes" shows 382 hits, vs
only 232 for "holes with steel" ~ or maybe not, since not too many of
the former hits seem relevant. There's an interesting reference on
its fourth page: http://www.bikernet.com/news/images/PhotoID5156.jpg
shows some weird welding; http://www.bikernet.com/garage/justinstrophy.asp
has the story, including bits like `His law of welding was, "Never lose
the
bead [...] even if you catch fire. Just keep welding, someone will put you
out."' but otherwise slim pickings. In contrast, the third hit from
"holes
with steel" http://www.knom.org/essays/tower.html actually is relevant
("Sam drove to the site in his rickety pickup truck, with Pfeifer (left)
and
Busch in back, sitting atop cases of dynamite with blasting caps jingling
in
their pockets. At Sam's direction, the two maintained a driftwood fire,
heating immense steel chisels until they glowed red, and with
sledgehammers, pounded the sizzling chisels into the permafrost.") to
something or other.

Now, some gratuitous items of advice for the OP, Al Smith --

1. Here are some plates, but maybe not heavy enough, or too expensive,
etc:

http://www.iboats.com/products/7/471...e_u_bolt_plate
..html
http://www.fortune3.com/~comp66099/p...16847--47.html


Those plates could work. Unfortunately, there was no length, width, nor
thinkness of the plates. Also, the diameter of the holes were not
specified.
Could one find those as scrap anywhere?

2. If you want to weld (to attach plates) why not just weld the
tower together instead of bolting it?

That is a fallback option. However, for a host of reasons, the ability to
disassemble is preferred. If I can't do it, then I'll weld the whole thing.


3. If you want to cut metal on the cheap, here's a $57 (on sale) bandsaw -
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=47840

Have you tried this thing?

and the following $80 drill press probably can drill 1/2" holes ok -
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44836


I have a drill press

4. As your tower is only 20' high, you could just buy a 40' length of
3-inch or 4-inch schedule 40 steel pipe - available most anywhere - and
cut off the right length and use that as a tower without additional
bother.


This is a design experiment. There is a reason for everything I am
attempting. Besides, the pipe must weigh a ton, and I would have
to use an anchoring system different from what I have in mind.

5. Apparently you are concerned that drilling into your 2.5"x2.5"x3/16"
angle iron will weaken it, and you want to weld plates on so you can bolt
parts together via the plates.

Right, that is what I am looking for, but I can't find anything, yet.

While drilled holes will weaken the steel,
the main effect will be that it bends easier near holes. But if your
structure has suitable triangles it won't bend before the metal tears.
If you put 1/2" holes near the midline of a side, so there is about 1" of
border, tearout should be not much more of a problem than bolt shear on
this size of tower, and unless you are a good welder, no more of a problem
than welded parts breaking off.
-jiw

Right. I thought it would be easier and cheaper to find metal with
pre-drilled
wholes. Haven't found the source yet. Soon, I'll just have to get some
metal and start making my own.

"Al Smith" wrote in message
...

Right. I thought it would be easier and cheaper to find metal with
pre-drilled
wholes. Haven't found the source yet. Soon, I'll just have to get some
metal and start making my own.

What did the steel and fence suppliers say when you called, "no, we don't
sell punched plate for making fence brackets"?