I feel obligated to show what the fuss was all about:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...in/photostream

Way more work than the outcome justifies but much has been learned in
the process.

BTW this is the only one of my dials that is pure metal.

Now I can move onto other things...

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 19:31:11 -0800, mkoblic wrote:

I feel obligated to show what the fuss was all about:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...in/photostream

Way more work than the outcome justifies but much has been learned in
the process.

BTW this is the only one of my dials that is pure metal.

Now I can move onto other things...

Very pretty, though.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 19:31:11 -0800, wrote:

I feel obligated to show what the fuss was all about:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...in/photostream

Way more work than the outcome justifies but much has been learned in
the process.

Very nice, and just in time for the winter haze which obscures the sun
up there for six months, eh? silly grinne


BTW this is the only one of my dials that is pure metal.

Now I can move onto other things...

The etched numbers are quite classy and worthy of the time, IMHO.

Got a portable sundial, complete with compass, that people can take
with them? For survivors of 12/21/2012.

--
That's the thing about needs. Sometimes, when you get them met,
you don't need them anymore. -- Michael Patrick King

wrote in message
...
I feel obligated to show what the fuss was all about:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...in/photostream

Way more work than the outcome justifies but much has been learned in
the process.

BTW this is the only one of my dials that is pure metal.

Now I can move onto other things...

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC


Where might I purchase one of these?

Steve

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 10:26:55 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
I feel obligated to show what the fuss was all about:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...in/photostream

Way more work than the outcome justifies but much has been learned in
the process.

BTW this is the only one of my dials that is pure metal.

Now I can move onto other things...

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC


Where might I purchase one of these?

Steve

It's sitting on my shelf. If you want it drop me an e-mail with your
ZIP code (for shipping estimate) and I shall quote you a price.

I have some on Etsy, e.g like this:

http://www.etsy.com/listing/82786831...ng-version-001

Right now I am ramping up production of my miniatures for the local
market.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 05:23:28 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 19:31:11 -0800, wrote:

I feel obligated to show what the fuss was all about:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...in/photostream

Way more work than the outcome justifies but much has been learned in
the process.

Very nice, and just in time for the winter haze which obscures the sun
up there for six months, eh? silly grinne


BTW this is the only one of my dials that is pure metal.

Now I can move onto other things...

The etched numbers are quite classy and worthy of the time, IMHO.

Got a portable sundial, complete with compass, that people can take
with them? For survivors of 12/21/2012.

It can be done. It would have to be some sort of inclining effort in
addition to the compass which ramps up the cost. Some of mine can be
adjusted with a bit of effort. I made only one outright adjustable:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...57605638700703

The problem is that not many people are interested in the high end
stuff.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 03:43:08 -0600, Tim
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 19:31:11 -0800, mkoblic wrote:

I feel obligated to show what the fuss was all about:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...in/photostream

Way more work than the outcome justifies but much has been learned in
the process.

BTW this is the only one of my dials that is pure metal.

Now I can move onto other things...

Very pretty, though.

Thank you. For some reason this one seems to generate emotions.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:05:35 -0800, wrote:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 05:23:28 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 19:31:11 -0800, wrote:

I feel obligated to show what the fuss was all about:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...in/photostream

Way more work than the outcome justifies but much has been learned in
the process.

Very nice, and just in time for the winter haze which obscures the sun
up there for six months, eh? silly grinne


BTW this is the only one of my dials that is pure metal.

Now I can move onto other things...

The etched numbers are quite classy and worthy of the time, IMHO.

Got a portable sundial, complete with compass, that people can take
with them? For survivors of 12/21/2012.

It can be done. It would have to be some sort of inclining effort in
addition to the compass which ramps up the cost. Some of mine can be
adjusted with a bit of effort. I made only one outright adjustable:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...57605638700703

(Ooh, noo! He said "try and")


The problem is that not many people are interested in the high end
stuff.

Yeah, I can imagine they'd be picked up as an unusual item, more for
their fun value than their function.

The unwashed and I bought our Casio "sundials" at Walmart for $26,
complete with dual time functions, countdown mode, stopwatch mode,
light, 5-year battery, and waterproof to 50M.

--
The problem with borrowing money from China is
that thirty minutes later, you feel broke again.
--Steve Bridges as Obama

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 21:39:15 -0800
wrote:

big snip
The compass also has several scales - the cardinal points are marked
on the middle scale but what the others do is a mystery to me. Also: I
cannot find a way to correct for declination. I suspect there is one
because: 1) Declination has been known since well before Columbus and
2) The cardinal points are accompanied by a character for "correct" or
"true", so I suspect there is a way of distinguishing them from the
magnetic directions.

It would be fun to see this close up.

Try searching on "chinese inclining sundial". I have an Antiques book
with this same (as Rob's) sundial pictured in it. This link explains it
some:

http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/sea...l&SortBy=title

Items 7 and 9 are similar. Also see "Chinese Sundials" he

http://www.compassmuseum.com/sundials/sundials.htm

Another website that may help:

http://www.prc68.com/I/chinesesdc.shtml

I'm sure there's more info/images out there, but this should keep you
distracted for awhile

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:10:55 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 21:39:15 -0800
wrote:

big snip
The compass also has several scales - the cardinal points are marked
on the middle scale but what the others do is a mystery to me. Also: I
cannot find a way to correct for declination. I suspect there is one
because: 1) Declination has been known since well before Columbus and
2) The cardinal points are accompanied by a character for "correct" or
"true", so I suspect there is a way of distinguishing them from the
magnetic directions.

It would be fun to see this close up.

Try searching on "chinese inclining sundial". I have an Antiques book
with this same (as Rob's) sundial pictured in it. This link explains it
some:

http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/sea...l&SortBy=title

Items 7 and 9 are similar. Also see "Chinese Sundials" he

http://www.compassmuseum.com/sundials/sundials.htm

Another website that may help:

http://www.prc68.com/I/chinesesdc.shtml

I'm sure there's more info/images out there, but this should keep you
distracted for awhile

Right. Thanks. I forgot about the Greenwich site and that it has the
two versions shown. The markings are a bit different. The other two
web sites are also interesting although some of the description is
word for word taken from Greenwich. Most of my questions remain
unanswered.

1) Why are the bagua trigrams sometimes different (I have seen the
"south" trigram used for "north-west")?
2) Wherefore declination?
3) Why have a North and South hemisphere dial on the same instrument
in a country that is entirely north of Equator (unless one is supposed
to turn the thing 180 degrees and use the other dial for some other
purpose than just simple time-telling)?
4) The nature of the markings on the latitude adjustment - one web
site agrees with my guess that these are place names, the other
suggests these are calendar references somehow related to latitude
(???)

The instrument itself is quite simple and of limited utility as it can
only be used 6 months in a year. However, the cultural connotations
are fascinating and probably more involved than I am prepared to spend
time on. At least for now :-)

Just to prove that I have been to that Greenwich site before here is
one I made which was inspired by D8644:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...57605638700703

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:59:06 -0800
wrote:

snip
Just to prove that I have been to that Greenwich site before here is
one I made which was inspired by D8644:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...57605638700703

I like that one. Those that look like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Zw_stelling.jpg

and this, which is really more of a calendar:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Le...ma_sundial.jpg

are the type/style I find interesting or pleasing. Would enjoy studying
them up close, in person. This one would also be fun to peruse for a
bit and might even be affordable:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ringsundial_open.jpg

I found some info, directions for making one of those he

http://www.mysundial.ca/sdu/sdu_sundial_kits.html

For some unknown reason I find these little ring-sized pendants nifty
too (and expensive...):

http://shepherdswatch.com/

I'll look in my Antiques book, but I don't remember it having
much to say about the sundial in question. I did find this little
snippet:

"This wooden equatorial sundial, a traditional Chinese form, uses a
copper pin as a gnomon and a brass strut to incline the plate. A
compass provides north / south alignment. Unlike western versions of
this sundial, which list cities at each latitude for the proper
inclination of the plate, Chinese dials refer to the local chhi' or
calendar system used in regions of different latitudes."

from this page:

http://64.107.216.64/research/collec...ns/index.shtml

If I find anything else of interest I'll let you know.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:37:54 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

For some unknown reason I find these little ring-sized pendants nifty
too (and expensive...):

http://shepherdswatch.com/

Cool.

http://shepherdswatch.com/explorer-c...pendant-small/
I love this one. The silver brother costs $175, while this is $88.


--
Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power.
-- Seneca

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:25:06 -0800
Larry Jaques wrote:

snip
http://shepherdswatch.com/explorer-c...pendant-small/
I love this one. The silver brother costs $175, while this is $88.

Yes, I like that one too, but would probably get the large version. If
you splurge on one I would like to hear about how well it works

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 17:39:22 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:25:06 -0800
Larry Jaques wrote:

snip
http://shepherdswatch.com/explorer-c...pendant-small/
I love this one. The silver brother costs $175, while this is $88.

Yes, I like that one too, but would probably get the large version. If
you splurge on one I would like to hear about how well it works

Pendants "work"? silly grinne

--
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:37:54 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:59:06 -0800
wrote:

snip
Just to prove that I have been to that Greenwich site before here is
one I made which was inspired by D8644:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...57605638700703

I like that one. Those that look like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Zw_stelling.jpg

That type of equatorial dial works all year round. Unusual gnomon - a
strip of light rather than a shadow, I think. There is a similar one
in Vancouver.

and this, which is really more of a calendar:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Le...ma_sundial.jpg

Actually that is a huge ring dial working on the same principle as
this:

http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/exp...cfm?ID=AST0305

Usually these dials adjust the position of the aperture according to
season to show time. With a stone monolith it would be tricky so the
spot of light falls on the appropriate date of the analemma at midday.
Like you say, a calendar, somewhat over-engineered :-)

are the type/style I find interesting or pleasing. Would enjoy studying
them up close, in person. This one would also be fun to peruse for a
bit and might even be affordable:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ringsundial_open.jpg

I like these a lot. Their main benefit is that they need not be lined
up by compass. If you get the latitude and day of the year right the
spot falls on the hour scale and the dial is automatically in a
correct position. I want to make one of these but it is an engineering
nightmare (for a mutt like myself).

I found some info, directions for making one of those he

http://www.mysundial.ca/sdu/sdu_sundial_kits.html

For some unknown reason I find these little ring-sized pendants nifty
too (and expensive...):

http://shepherdswatch.com/

I think it is meant to be a version of the universal ring dial like
the one above but lacks some essential features that would make it
work as such: There is no adjustable pinhole on the gnomon that I can
see.

I'll look in my Antiques book, but I don't remember it having
much to say about the sundial in question. I did find this little
snippet:

"This wooden equatorial sundial, a traditional Chinese form, uses a
copper pin as a gnomon and a brass strut to incline the plate. A
compass provides north / south alignment. Unlike western versions of
this sundial, which list cities at each latitude for the proper
inclination of the plate, Chinese dials refer to the local chhi' or
calendar system used in regions of different latitudes."

from this page:

http://64.107.216.64/research/collec...ns/index.shtml

Word for word from the other web site you linked to.

If I find anything else of interest I'll let you know.

If you want to study some really cool ones these are it:

http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/sea...l&sortBy=title

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 21:25:28 -0800
wrote:

snip
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ringsundial_open.jpg

I like these a lot. Their main benefit is that they need not be lined
up by compass. If you get the latitude and day of the year right the
spot falls on the hour scale and the dial is automatically in a
correct position. I want to make one of these but it is an engineering
nightmare (for a mutt like myself).

The following link (which I posted before) has pdf files that you can
print out and then scissor, glue, make a very similar, if not same
model. I only gave the pdf files a quick glance but that was my
impression. I would go ahead, print out and make the paper one. Then
study the paper model, parts and decide how to best reproduce it in
metal. You could use the paper pieces as a pattern and prick punch the
degree markings through the paper. Then finish the markings with a cold
chisel. The first one may not look so pretty, but it would give you a
warm fuzzy feeling and the next one would be better after you have
stumbled around some... Even thin wood or plastic should work I think.
I've seen your creations and I'm sure you could make one this way.

I found some info, directions for making one of those he

http://www.mysundial.ca/sdu/sdu_sundial_kits.html
snip

If you want to study some really cool ones these are it:

http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/sea...l&sortBy=title

Yes, those are really nice and way out of my price range. Sure would be
fun to futz around with them for awhile though

Probably old news, but have you seen/tried these programs for
calculating sundials?

http://www.helson.at/sun.htm

I've been playing around with "ALEMMA" (seems to run on Linux via WINE
okay), seriously thinking about building one out in the yard. Use patio
stones, bricks and such. Would be pretty neat to have out in the yard
for daydreaming and such...

I'll look in my Antiques book, but I don't remember it having
much to say about the sundial in question.

I looked in my book and find my memory was wrong. It wasn't the dual
version in it, just a single side that inclined like we've already
pointed out to each other. No useful info other than the date
and maker.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 15:11:56 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

[...]

The following link (which I posted before) has pdf files that you can
print out and then scissor, glue, make a very similar, if not same
model. I only gave the pdf files a quick glance but that was my
impression. I would go ahead, print out and make the paper one. Then
study the paper model, parts and decide how to best reproduce it in
metal. You could use the paper pieces as a pattern and prick punch the
degree markings through the paper. Then finish the markings with a cold
chisel. The first one may not look so pretty, but it would give you a
warm fuzzy feeling and the next one would be better after you have
stumbled around some... Even thin wood or plastic should work I think.
I've seen your creations and I'm sure you could make one this way.

Actually the markings are the least of the problems. The three
adjustable rings and a gnomon with an adjustable pin-hole worry me far
more. If I get around to it I might make one that has fixed parts to
start with.

[...]

Probably old news, but have you seen/tried these programs for
calculating sundials?

http://www.helson.at/sun.htm

I've been playing around with "ALEMMA" (seems to run on Linux via WINE
okay), seriously thinking about building one out in the yard. Use patio
stones, bricks and such. Would be pretty neat to have out in the yard
for daydreaming and such...

I use Blateyron's "Shadows" but I only have the free version. I have
not felt the need for the Pro-version so far. Thanks for the link
though, I should see how these programs stack up against the Shadows.

I'll look in my Antiques book, but I don't remember it having
much to say about the sundial in question.

I looked in my book and find my memory was wrong. It wasn't the dual
version in it, just a single side that inclined like we've already
pointed out to each other. No useful info other than the date
and maker.

It's one of those things one would like to see close up and have a
Chinese speaker standing by.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 19:51:02 -0800
wrote:

snip
Actually the markings are the least of the problems. The three
adjustable rings and a gnomon with an adjustable pin-hole worry me far
more. If I get around to it I might make one that has fixed parts to
start with.

Hmm... The rings are stationary, only pinned best I can tell. Look
closely at this one from the wikipedia site:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ndial_open.jpg

and folded/flat:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ndial_open.jpg

The inner ring simply swivels inside the outer ring 90 deg (so it can
be stored/carried flat). The hanging part looks like a wire that simply
fits in a groove going around the circumference of the outermost ring.
The degree markings look standard (really 0 to 90, quarter circle). The
gnomon or bar is pinned at the 90 deg mark on the outer ring and
allowed to swivel or spin around to whatever position need be.

So it looks to me like you need two rings that fit together. Outer most
ring needs to be put on the lathe and a groove made around
its circumference to hold a wire for hanging (latitude adjustment).
Drill a small hole through the outer and inner rings opposite each
other. Maybe use a punch (crude but should work) to deform one of the
rings over the pin location to secure said pin. At 90 deg away from
this pin the gnome needs to be secured to the outer most ring. The
image shows rivets were used and opposite sides of the ring so that the
inner most circle can be swiveled flat to store.

I think some careful measurements from the similar pdf model's
gnome-slider area could be used to get the month settings transfered.
Might be able to use the flat image from wikipedia for this also.

Did I miss something else other than to add the markings?

snip
I looked in my book and find my memory was wrong. It wasn't the dual
version in it, just a single side that inclined like we've already
pointed out to each other. No useful info other than the date
and maker.

It's one of those things one would like to see close up and have a
Chinese speaker standing by.

Yes, that would be really cool. I've spent way too much money through
the years buying stuff to fuddle around with due to curiosity and
wanting to learn something...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 15:42:00 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:


snip

Did I miss something else other than to add the markings?

Here is 45 of them:

http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/sea...l&sortBy=title

You still have to have a good fit (particularly if one is to reproduce
the folding option) and more importantly good alignment. The
attachment points of the gnomon alone are difficult enough.

Still, I am looking forward to seeing your version. I hope you post
the pictures. I shall stick to the simple stuff.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 20:22:27 -0800
wrote:


Here is 45 of them:

http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/sea...l&sortBy=title

You still have to have a good fit (particularly if one is to reproduce
the folding option) and more importantly good alignment. The
attachment points of the gnomon alone are difficult enough.

Still, I am looking forward to seeing your version. I hope you post
the pictures. I shall stick to the simple stuff.

Thanks for the link, more images for reference is good

I think you're making it more complicated than it needs to be. A
sundial device that small won't be terribly accurate anyway. Getting
the inner ring pinned and then the gnomon set 90 deg away are the
critical parts, along with the degree markings. If it could tell me the
hour of the day, maybe even the half-hour I would be more than pleased.

I started working on my 9x20 lathe again a few weeks ago. I could run
it now, but will probably clean up, adjust a few more things yet. If I
can rummage up some material for the rings and haven't lost the urge, I
may just give it a try ;-)

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email