I think this has been discussed before and I see a few answers on Google,
but...

I'm curious if there is anyone here who knows for sure how they make the
coolant passageways in solid carbide tooling. ...Especially the ones that
curve with the flute helix.

My guess is that it is "cast" in the carbide as they make the blank stock?

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill


V8013-R

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message news
I think this has been discussed before and I see a few answers on Google,
but...

I'm curious if there is anyone here who knows for sure how they make the
coolant passageways in solid carbide tooling. ...Especially the ones that
curve with the flute helix.

My guess is that it is "cast" in the carbide as they make the blank stock?

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill


V8013-R

================================================== =========================

For straight holes, they're commonly drilled with the compact in the green
state.

For helical holes (and, today, more of the straight holes) there are several
patents. The hot item (excuse the pun) is rod that is extruded in the loose,
powdered-metal state and twisted during the extrusion. The holes are pierced
or (rarely, from what I can gather) formed around polymer strings that
evaporate during sintering. There also is an older, straight
press-and-sinter technology that uses polymer strings.

Extrusion, though, apparently is the big seller today. I don't know who is
doing it. I don't know which manufacturer is using which technique. There
are a lot of carbide suppliers who sell extruded rod, with the holes already
in it, to tool manufacturers, who grind the tools to shape. I only gathered
this from some generic toolmaking source a few years ago.

Maybe I'll research it for an article some time and get more detail.

--
Ed Huntress

(CLIPPED LOTS OF GREAT DETAILS)

Maybe I'll research it for an article some time and get more detail.

--
Ed Huntress

And this is why I still stick around here even though the spam zombies are
also here... Great answers and great info from what are presumably great
people. Thank you.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill


V8013-R

On 10/21/2011 10:55 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:


"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message news
I think this has been discussed before and I see a few answers on Google,
but...

I'm curious if there is anyone here who knows for sure how they make the
coolant passageways in solid carbide tooling. ...Especially the ones that
curve with the flute helix.

My guess is that it is "cast" in the carbide as they make the blank stock?

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill


V8013-R

================================================== =========================

For straight holes, they're commonly drilled with the compact in the
green state.

For helical holes (and, today, more of the straight holes) there are
several patents. The hot item (excuse the pun) is rod that is extruded
in the loose, powdered-metal state and twisted during the extrusion. The
holes are pierced or (rarely, from what I can gather) formed around
polymer strings that evaporate during sintering. There also is an older,
straight press-and-sinter technology that uses polymer strings.

Extrusion, though, apparently is the big seller today. I don't know who
is doing it. I don't know which manufacturer is using which technique.
There are a lot of carbide suppliers who sell extruded rod, with the
holes already in it, to tool manufacturers, who grind the tools to
shape. I only gathered this from some generic toolmaking source a few
years ago.

Maybe I'll research it for an article some time and get more detail.


Our plant purchases solid carbide "water drills" (as we call them) in
1/8 to 7/16 diameters up to 30x (dia x flute length) from various
manufacturers although this is the one that we bought from first and is
still our main supplier:

http://www.toolingsolutions.com/lines.php?line=71

You can also just buy the extruded blanks from various sources and grind
them yourself, a process that we are just beginning to ramp up.

If you talk to the Titex people (above URL) ask them to send you a
Windows CD with recommended feeds and speeds for different materials - a
real eye opener. RPM's are about double and feeds as much as 6x
(depending on material) -but- with absolutely no pecking vs. traditional
solid carbide drills without coolant holes.

Beside the high cost the downside:
Your machine better have high pressure coolant and some serious
filtering as the tools are *very pricy* and just one spec of metal in a
coolant hole will destroy the drill.

Results are what count though and drilling deep holes (no peck) in 1/10
or less the time of pecked solid carbide drills sure reduces labor
costs. They are unbelievable in softer materials like bronze which is
the predominant material that we need to drill. Harder materials,
nickle-stainless castings for example, can also be drilled, although
here the main time saver is no peck.

We do not ever peck these drills although the longer sizes (16x & up)
need a custom cycle (done with a sub) to enter the material about 4x the
drill dia. at a slow speed to eliminate tip whipping and breakage. Once
in ramp up to full speed and drill to depth. Shorter lengths going in at
90 degrees to a finished surface don't even need spotted or slowed down
to enter the material. Obviously hole diameter accuracy can suffer doing
this but in our application it usually isn't a concern.

We use them on OKK horizontals and a Matsuura 5 axis vertical to
manufacture moulds for the glass industry and have to drill a *lot* of
coolant holes in the moulds themselves, which average about 10.5" in
length where the holes are mostly drilled through radially. We also use
them to drill the holes in the ancillary parts that accompany a set of
moulds.

In fact we are actively searching for more machines with the right
equipment to utilize these type drills, the more you use them the more
uses that come to mind.

John

"John" wrote in message .. .

On 10/21/2011 10:55 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:


"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message news
I think this has been discussed before and I see a few answers on Google,
but...

I'm curious if there is anyone here who knows for sure how they make the
coolant passageways in solid carbide tooling. ...Especially the ones that
curve with the flute helix.

My guess is that it is "cast" in the carbide as they make the blank stock?

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill


V8013-R

================================================== =========================

For straight holes, they're commonly drilled with the compact in the
green state.

For helical holes (and, today, more of the straight holes) there are
several patents. The hot item (excuse the pun) is rod that is extruded
in the loose, powdered-metal state and twisted during the extrusion. The
holes are pierced or (rarely, from what I can gather) formed around
polymer strings that evaporate during sintering. There also is an older,
straight press-and-sinter technology that uses polymer strings.

Extrusion, though, apparently is the big seller today. I don't know who
is doing it. I don't know which manufacturer is using which technique.
There are a lot of carbide suppliers who sell extruded rod, with the
holes already in it, to tool manufacturers, who grind the tools to
shape. I only gathered this from some generic toolmaking source a few
years ago.

Maybe I'll research it for an article some time and get more detail.


Our plant purchases solid carbide "water drills" (as we call them) in
1/8 to 7/16 diameters up to 30x (dia x flute length) from various
manufacturers although this is the one that we bought from first and is
still our main supplier:

http://www.toolingsolutions.com/lines.php?line=71

You can also just buy the extruded blanks from various sources and grind
them yourself, a process that we are just beginning to ramp up.

If you talk to the Titex people (above URL) ask them to send you a
Windows CD with recommended feeds and speeds for different materials - a
real eye opener. RPM's are about double and feeds as much as 6x
(depending on material) -but- with absolutely no pecking vs. traditional
solid carbide drills without coolant holes.

Beside the high cost the downside:
Your machine better have high pressure coolant and some serious
filtering as the tools are *very pricy* and just one spec of metal in a
coolant hole will destroy the drill.

Results are what count though and drilling deep holes (no peck) in 1/10
or less the time of pecked solid carbide drills sure reduces labor
costs. They are unbelievable in softer materials like bronze which is
the predominant material that we need to drill. Harder materials,
nickle-stainless castings for example, can also be drilled, although
here the main time saver is no peck.

We do not ever peck these drills although the longer sizes (16x & up)
need a custom cycle (done with a sub) to enter the material about 4x the
drill dia. at a slow speed to eliminate tip whipping and breakage. Once
in ramp up to full speed and drill to depth. Shorter lengths going in at
90 degrees to a finished surface don't even need spotted or slowed down
to enter the material. Obviously hole diameter accuracy can suffer doing
this but in our application it usually isn't a concern.

We use them on OKK horizontals and a Matsuura 5 axis vertical to
manufacture moulds for the glass industry and have to drill a *lot* of
coolant holes in the moulds themselves, which average about 10.5" in
length where the holes are mostly drilled through radially. We also use
them to drill the holes in the ancillary parts that accompany a set of
moulds.

In fact we are actively searching for more machines with the right
equipment to utilize these type drills, the more you use them the more
uses that come to mind.

John

================================================== =================

That's pretty impressive, John. I've seen some results with through-hole
drills and other tools that really open one's eyes.

Since your company is buying extruded carbide blanks, do you have anything
to add or correct about how the through-holes are being made these days? I
don't know how old my information is, or if something new has come along.

--
Ed Huntress

On 10/22/2011 1:26 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:


"John" wrote in message .. .

On 10/21/2011 10:55 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:


"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message news
I think this has been discussed before and I see a few answers on Google,
but...

I'm curious if there is anyone here who knows for sure how they make the
coolant passageways in solid carbide tooling. ...Especially the ones that
curve with the flute helix.

My guess is that it is "cast" in the carbide as they make the blank
stock?

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill


V8013-R

================================================== =========================


For straight holes, they're commonly drilled with the compact in the
green state.

For helical holes (and, today, more of the straight holes) there are
several patents. The hot item (excuse the pun) is rod that is extruded
in the loose, powdered-metal state and twisted during the extrusion. The
holes are pierced or (rarely, from what I can gather) formed around
polymer strings that evaporate during sintering. There also is an older,
straight press-and-sinter technology that uses polymer strings.

Extrusion, though, apparently is the big seller today. I don't know who
is doing it. I don't know which manufacturer is using which technique.
There are a lot of carbide suppliers who sell extruded rod, with the
holes already in it, to tool manufacturers, who grind the tools to
shape. I only gathered this from some generic toolmaking source a few
years ago.

Maybe I'll research it for an article some time and get more detail.


Our plant purchases solid carbide "water drills" (as we call them) in
1/8 to 7/16 diameters up to 30x (dia x flute length) from various
manufacturers although this is the one that we bought from first and is
still our main supplier:

http://www.toolingsolutions.com/lines.php?line=71

You can also just buy the extruded blanks from various sources and grind
them yourself, a process that we are just beginning to ramp up.

If you talk to the Titex people (above URL) ask them to send you a
Windows CD with recommended feeds and speeds for different materials - a
real eye opener. RPM's are about double and feeds as much as 6x
(depending on material) -but- with absolutely no pecking vs. traditional
solid carbide drills without coolant holes.

Beside the high cost the downside:
Your machine better have high pressure coolant and some serious
filtering as the tools are *very pricy* and just one spec of metal in a
coolant hole will destroy the drill.

Results are what count though and drilling deep holes (no peck) in 1/10
or less the time of pecked solid carbide drills sure reduces labor
costs. They are unbelievable in softer materials like bronze which is
the predominant material that we need to drill. Harder materials,
nickle-stainless castings for example, can also be drilled, although
here the main time saver is no peck.

We do not ever peck these drills although the longer sizes (16x & up)
need a custom cycle (done with a sub) to enter the material about 4x the
drill dia. at a slow speed to eliminate tip whipping and breakage. Once
in ramp up to full speed and drill to depth. Shorter lengths going in at
90 degrees to a finished surface don't even need spotted or slowed down
to enter the material. Obviously hole diameter accuracy can suffer doing
this but in our application it usually isn't a concern.

We use them on OKK horizontals and a Matsuura 5 axis vertical to
manufacture moulds for the glass industry and have to drill a *lot* of
coolant holes in the moulds themselves, which average about 10.5" in
length where the holes are mostly drilled through radially. We also use
them to drill the holes in the ancillary parts that accompany a set of
moulds.

In fact we are actively searching for more machines with the right
equipment to utilize these type drills, the more you use them the more
uses that come to mind.

John

================================================== =================

That's pretty impressive, John. I've seen some results with through-hole
drills and other tools that really open one's eyes.

Since your company is buying extruded carbide blanks, do you have
anything to add or correct about how the through-holes are being made
these days? I don't know how old my information is, or if something new
has come along.


I will check next week and report back but extruded is what I was told.
I am not involved in purchasing other than keeping the person who is
informed of what we don't have on hand but will need on upcoming jobs.

The first time I saw drilling with one of these was like watching a hot
knife through butter.
LOL - that first experience was an 8 hole 1/4" x 3.5" deep pattern
angled into silicon-bronze. Although I didn't time it, it seemed like
about a minute tops for all 8 holes, probably more I would have to do
the math - but truly a 'WOW' experience I assure you - brings to mind a
Star Wars light saber.

I forgot to mention that the high pressure ejects a slurry, no curly
chips to wrap around things. Of course, as I mentioned, serious coolant
filtering and pressure is needed. Probably not realistic for a small shop.

John