If President Obama wants to better understand why America's discomfort with
end-of-life discussions threatens to derail his health-care reform, he might
begin with his own Department of Veterans Affairs (VA). He will quickly
discover how government bureaucrats are greasing the slippery slope that can
start with cost containment but quickly become a systematic denial of care.

Last year, bureaucrats at the VA's National Center for Ethics in Health Care
advocated a 52-page end-of-life planning document, "Your Life, Your
Choices." It was first published in 1997 and later promoted as the VA's
preferred living will throughout its vast network of hospitals and nursing
homes. After the Bush White House took a look at how this document was
treating complex health and moral issues, the VA suspended its use.
Unfortunately, under President Obama, the VA has now resuscitated "Your
Life, Your Choices."

"Your Life, Your Choices" presents end-of-life choices in a way aimed at
steering users toward predetermined conclusions, much like a political "push
poll." For example, a worksheet on page 21 lists various scenarios and asks
users to then decide whether their own life would be "not worth living."

When the government can steer vulnerable individuals to conclude for
themselves that life is not worth living, who needs a death panel?

This hurry-up-and-die message is clear and unconscionable. Worse, a July
2009 VA directive instructs its primary care physicians to raise advance
care planning with all VA patients and to refer them to "Your Life, Your
Choices." Not just those of advanced age and debilitated condition-all
patients. America's 24 million veterans deserve better. And as you might
guess, only one organization was listed in the new version as a resource on
advance directives: the Hemlock Society (now euphemistically known as
"Compassion and Choices").

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...107981718.html

"Your Life, Your Choices." :

http://www.rihlp.org/pubs/Your_life_your_choices.pdf



Best Regards

Tom.

mattathayde had written this in response to
http://rittercnc.com/metalworking/OT...ns-196074-.htm
:


-------------------------------------
azotic wrote:




If President Obama wants to better understand why America's discomfort
with
end-of-life discussions threatens to derail his health-care reform, he
might
begin with his own Department of Veterans Affairs (VA). He will quickly

discover how government bureaucrats are greasing the slippery slope
that can
start with cost containment but quickly become a systematic denial of
care.

Last year, bureaucrats at the VA's National Center for Ethics in Health
Care
advocated a 52-page end-of-life planning document, "Your Life,
Your
Choices." It was first published in 1997 and later promoted as the
VA's
preferred living will throughout its vast network of hospitals and
nursing
homes. After the Bush White House took a look at how this document was
treating complex health and moral issues, the VA suspended its use.
Unfortunately, under President Obama, the VA has now resuscitated
"Your
Life, Your Choices."

"Your Life, Your Choices" presents end-of-life choices in a
way aimed at
steering users toward predetermined conclusions, much like a political
"push
poll." For example, a worksheet on page 21 lists various scenarios
and asks
users to then decide whether their own life would be "not worth
living."

When the government can steer vulnerable individuals to conclude for
themselves that life is not worth living, who needs a death panel?

This hurry-up-and-die message is clear and unconscionable. Worse, a
July
2009 VA directive instructs its primary care physicians to raise
advance
care planning with all VA patients and to refer them to "Your
Life, Your
Choices." Not just those of advanced age and debilitated
condition-all
patients. America's 24 million veterans deserve better. And as you
might
guess, only one organization was listed in the new version as a
resource on
advance directives: the Hemlock Society (now euphemistically known as
"Compassion and Choices").


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...107981718.html

"Your Life, Your Choices." :

http://www.rihlp.org/pubs/Your_life_your_choices.pdf



Best Regards

Tom.


i love how getting people to make a detailed living will becomes trying to
kill
them off. one of the issues with our current system is that people make
living
wills then when they are unconscious the family does not follow them or
change
them, yes i will grant there are a few instances when it is for the better
but
if some one has made a decision and made a LEGLLY BINDING DOCUMENT then
they are
the only one who can change it. all of the neo conservative propaganda
and bout
trying to kill you off and death panels just seriously needs to get shoved
because the plan is just pushing for living wills that end up doing their
job as
a legal document and dont get discarded like a little wishful note left on
a
table

-matt


##-----------------------------------------------##
Delivered via http://www.rittercnc.com/
Metalworking Forums
Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup -
rec.crafts.metalworking - 170389 messages and counting!
##-----------------------------------------------##

On Aug 25, 4:13*am, "azotic" wrote:
If President Obama wants to better understand why America's discomfort with
end-of-life discussions threatens to derail his health-care reform, he might
begin with his own Department of Veterans Affairs (VA). He will quickly
discover how government bureaucrats are greasing the slippery slope that can
start with cost containment but quickly become a systematic denial of care.

Last year, bureaucrats at the VA's National Center for Ethics in Health Care
advocated a 52-page end-of-life planning document, "Your Life, Your
Choices." It was first published in 1997 and later promoted as the VA's
preferred living will throughout its vast network of hospitals and nursing
homes. After the Bush White House took a look at how this document was
treating complex health and moral issues, the VA suspended its use.
Unfortunately, under President Obama, the VA has now resuscitated "Your
Life, Your Choices."

"Your Life, Your Choices" presents end-of-life choices in a way aimed at
steering users toward predetermined conclusions, much like a political "push
poll." For example, a worksheet on page 21 lists various scenarios and asks
users to then decide whether their own life would be "not worth living."

When the government can steer vulnerable individuals to conclude for
themselves that life is not worth living, who needs a death panel?

This hurry-up-and-die message is clear and unconscionable. Worse, a July
2009 VA directive instructs its primary care physicians to raise advance
care planning with all VA patients and to refer them to "Your Life, Your
Choices." Not just those of advanced age and debilitated condition-all
patients. America's 24 million veterans deserve better. And as you might
guess, only one organization was listed in the new version as a resource on
advance directives: the Hemlock Society (now euphemistically known as
"Compassion and Choices").

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...57435859010798...

*"Your Life, Your Choices." :

http://www.rihlp.org/pubs/Your_life_your_choices.pdf

Best Regards

Tom.

If you really believe any of this, you really don't understand the
concept of a living will or advance directive.

On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:13:32 -0700, the infamous "azotic"
scrawled the following:

If President Obama wants to better understand why America's discomfort with
end-of-life discussions threatens to derail his health-care reform, he might
begin with his own Department of Veterans Affairs (VA). He will quickly
discover how government bureaucrats are greasing the slippery slope that can
start with cost containment but quickly become a systematic denial of care.

Last year, bureaucrats at the VA's National Center for Ethics in Health Care
advocated a 52-page end-of-life planning document, "Your Life, Your
Choices." It was first published in 1997 and later promoted as the VA's
preferred living will throughout its vast network of hospitals and nursing
homes. After the Bush White House took a look at how this document was
treating complex health and moral issues, the VA suspended its use.
Unfortunately, under President Obama, the VA has now resuscitated "Your
Life, Your Choices."

"Your Life, Your Choices" presents end-of-life choices in a way aimed at
steering users toward predetermined conclusions, much like a political "push
poll." For example, a worksheet on page 21 lists various scenarios and asks
users to then decide whether their own life would be "not worth living."

When the government can steer vulnerable individuals to conclude for
themselves that life is not worth living, who needs a death panel?

It steers nothing. I found it to be a neutral document which helps
people to determine how they want to be treated during their last
days.

I'm proud of Oregon for having a death-with-dignity law and Mom wants
to come up here if she starts to decline so she, too, has that option.
We watched my grandmother (Dad's side) die of stomach cancer (2
horrible, painful years) and the whole family decided that we
ABSOLUTELY did not want to die that way.


This hurry-up-and-die message is clear and unconscionable. Worse, a July
2009 VA directive instructs its primary care physicians to raise advance
care planning with all VA patients and to refer them to "Your Life, Your
Choices." Not just those of advanced age and debilitated condition-all
patients. America's 24 million veterans deserve better. And as you might
guess, only one organization was listed in the new version as a resource on
advance directives: the Hemlock Society (now euphemistically known as
"Compassion and Choices").

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...107981718.html

"Your Life, Your Choices." :

http://www.rihlp.org/pubs/Your_life_your_choices.pdf

I urge everyone to read this booklet and get your living will/power of
attorney/compact health directive done ASAP.

---
So far Mr. Obama has used his personally exciting presidency for initiatives
that are spending public money on a scale not seen since ancient Egypt.
-- Daniel Henninger
WSJ Online, 4 June 2009
"Obama's America: Too Fat to Fail
The age of the induced industrial coma."

On Aug 25, 10:45*am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:13:32 -0700, the infamous "azotic"
scrawled the following:



If President Obama wants to better understand why America's discomfort with
end-of-life discussions threatens to derail his health-care reform, he might
begin with his own Department of Veterans Affairs (VA). He will quickly
discover how government bureaucrats are greasing the slippery slope that can
start with cost containment but quickly become a systematic denial of care.

Last year, bureaucrats at the VA's National Center for Ethics in Health Care
advocated a 52-page end-of-life planning document, "Your Life, Your
Choices." It was first published in 1997 and later promoted as the VA's
preferred living will throughout its vast network of hospitals and nursing
homes. After the Bush White House took a look at how this document was
treating complex health and moral issues, the VA suspended its use.
Unfortunately, under President Obama, the VA has now resuscitated "Your
Life, Your Choices."

"Your Life, Your Choices" presents end-of-life choices in a way aimed at
steering users toward predetermined conclusions, much like a political "push
poll." For example, a worksheet on page 21 lists various scenarios and asks
users to then decide whether their own life would be "not worth living."

When the government can steer vulnerable individuals to conclude for
themselves that life is not worth living, who needs a death panel?

It steers nothing. *I found it to be a neutral document which helps
people to determine how they want to be treated during their last
days. *

I'm proud of Oregon for having a death-with-dignity law and Mom wants
to come up here if she starts to decline so she, too, has that option.
We watched my grandmother (Dad's side) die of stomach cancer (2
horrible, painful years) and the whole family decided that we
ABSOLUTELY did not want to die that way.

This hurry-up-and-die message is clear and unconscionable. Worse, a July
2009 VA directive instructs its primary care physicians to raise advance
care planning with all VA patients and to refer them to "Your Life, Your
Choices." Not just those of advanced age and debilitated condition-all
patients. America's 24 million veterans deserve better. And as you might
guess, only one organization was listed in the new version as a resource on
advance directives: the Hemlock Society (now euphemistically known as
"Compassion and Choices").

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...57435859010798...

"Your Life, Your Choices." :

http://www.rihlp.org/pubs/Your_life_your_choices.pdf

I urge everyone to read this booklet and get your living will/power of
attorney/compact health directive done ASAP.

I agree wholeheartedly, having been in a similar circumstance. My
papers are in order. Yours should be, too.

Now you have heard it from both sides of the aisle. That anyone would
have turned this most important subject into a political "football" is
truly despicable.

rangerssuck wrote:
On Aug 25, 10:45 am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:13:32 -0700, the infamous "azotic"
scrawled the following:



If President Obama wants to better understand why America's
discomfort with end-of-life discussions threatens to derail his
health-care reform, he might begin with his own Department of
Veterans Affairs (VA). He will quickly discover how government
bureaucrats are greasing the slippery slope that can start with
cost containment but quickly become a systematic denial of care.

Last year, bureaucrats at the VA's National Center for Ethics in
Health Care advocated a 52-page end-of-life planning document,
"Your Life, Your Choices." It was first published in 1997 and later
promoted as the VA's preferred living will throughout its vast
network of hospitals and nursing homes. After the Bush White House
took a look at how this document was treating complex health and
moral issues, the VA suspended its use. Unfortunately, under
President Obama, the VA has now resuscitated "Your Life, Your
Choices."

"Your Life, Your Choices" presents end-of-life choices in a way
aimed at steering users toward predetermined conclusions, much like
a political "push poll." For example, a worksheet on page 21 lists
various scenarios and asks users to then decide whether their own
life would be "not worth living."

When the government can steer vulnerable individuals to conclude for
themselves that life is not worth living, who needs a death panel?

It steers nothing. I found it to be a neutral document which helps
people to determine how they want to be treated during their last
days.

I'm proud of Oregon for having a death-with-dignity law and Mom wants
to come up here if she starts to decline so she, too, has that
option. We watched my grandmother (Dad's side) die of stomach cancer
(2 horrible, painful years) and the whole family decided that we
ABSOLUTELY did not want to die that way.

This hurry-up-and-die message is clear and unconscionable. Worse, a
July 2009 VA directive instructs its primary care physicians to
raise advance care planning with all VA patients and to refer them
to "Your Life, Your Choices." Not just those of advanced age and
debilitated condition-all patients. America's 24 million veterans
deserve better. And as you might guess, only one organization was
listed in the new version as a resource on advance directives: the
Hemlock Society (now euphemistically known as "Compassion and
Choices").

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...57435859010798...

"Your Life, Your Choices." :

http://www.rihlp.org/pubs/Your_life_your_choices.pdf

I urge everyone to read this booklet and get your living will/power
of attorney/compact health directive done ASAP.

I agree wholeheartedly, having been in a similar circumstance. My
papers are in order. Yours should be, too.

Now you have heard it from both sides of the aisle. That anyone would
have turned this most important subject into a political "football" is
truly despicable.
"The controversy stems from an opinion piece published last Tuesday in the
Wall Street Journal and written by Jim Towey, who was director of the Bush
White House's Office of Faith-Based Initiatives from 2002 to 2006. "




--
John R. Carroll

On Aug 25, 1:51*pm, "John R. Carroll" wrote:
rangerssuck wrote:
On Aug 25, 10:45 am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:13:32 -0700, the infamous "azotic"
scrawled the following:

If President Obama wants to better understand why America's
discomfort with end-of-life discussions threatens to derail his
health-care reform, he might begin with his own Department of
Veterans Affairs (VA). He will quickly discover how government
bureaucrats are greasing the slippery slope that can start with
cost containment but quickly become a systematic denial of care.

Last year, bureaucrats at the VA's National Center for Ethics in
Health Care advocated a 52-page end-of-life planning document,
"Your Life, Your Choices." It was first published in 1997 and later
promoted as the VA's preferred living will throughout its vast
network of hospitals and nursing homes. After the Bush White House
took a look at how this document was treating complex health and
moral issues, the VA suspended its use. Unfortunately, under
President Obama, the VA has now resuscitated "Your Life, Your
Choices."

"Your Life, Your Choices" presents end-of-life choices in a way
aimed at steering users toward predetermined conclusions, much like
a political "push poll." For example, a worksheet on page 21 lists
various scenarios and asks users to then decide whether their own
life would be "not worth living."

When the government can steer vulnerable individuals to conclude for
themselves that life is not worth living, who needs a death panel?

It steers nothing. I found it to be a neutral document which helps
people to determine how they want to be treated during their last
days.

I'm proud of Oregon for having a death-with-dignity law and Mom wants
to come up here if she starts to decline so she, too, has that
option. We watched my grandmother (Dad's side) die of stomach cancer
(2 horrible, painful years) and the whole family decided that we
ABSOLUTELY did not want to die that way.

This hurry-up-and-die message is clear and unconscionable. Worse, a
July 2009 VA directive instructs its primary care physicians to
raise advance care planning with all VA patients and to refer them
to "Your Life, Your Choices." Not just those of advanced age and
debilitated condition-all patients. America's 24 million veterans
deserve better. And as you might guess, only one organization was
listed in the new version as a resource on advance directives: the
Hemlock Society (now euphemistically known as "Compassion and
Choices").

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...57435859010798....

"Your Life, Your Choices." :

http://www.rihlp.org/pubs/Your_life_your_choices.pdf

I urge everyone to read this booklet and get your living will/power
of attorney/compact health directive done ASAP.

I agree wholeheartedly, having been in a similar circumstance. My
papers are in order. Yours should be, too.

Now you have heard it from both sides of the aisle. That anyone would
have turned this most important subject into a political "football" is
truly despicable.

"The controversy stems from an opinion piece published last Tuesday in the
Wall Street Journal and written by Jim Towey, who was director of the Bush
White House's Office of Faith-Based Initiatives from 2002 to 2006. "

--
John R. Carroll

The controversy may stem from that piece, but the fires are fanned by
the ignorant people who choose to blindly follow this ridiculous line
of thinking. They'd rather have everyone dead than pass a piece of
"liberal" legislation (even though the entire "death panel" amendment
was proposed by republicans). Yup, it's scorched earth for them, can't
let the other side win.

rangerssuck wrote:
On Aug 25, 1:51 pm, "John R. Carroll" wrote:
rangerssuck wrote:
On Aug 25, 10:45 am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:13:32 -0700, the infamous "azotic"
scrawled the following:

If President Obama wants to better understand why America's
discomfort with end-of-life discussions threatens to derail his
health-care reform, he might begin with his own Department of
Veterans Affairs (VA). He will quickly discover how government
bureaucrats are greasing the slippery slope that can start with
cost containment but quickly become a systematic denial of care.

Last year, bureaucrats at the VA's National Center for Ethics in
Health Care advocated a 52-page end-of-life planning document,
"Your Life, Your Choices." It was first published in 1997 and
later promoted as the VA's preferred living will throughout its
vast network of hospitals and nursing homes. After the Bush White
House took a look at how this document was treating complex
health and moral issues, the VA suspended its use. Unfortunately,
under President Obama, the VA has now resuscitated "Your Life,
Your Choices."

"Your Life, Your Choices" presents end-of-life choices in a way
aimed at steering users toward predetermined conclusions, much
like a political "push poll." For example, a worksheet on page 21
lists various scenarios and asks users to then decide whether
their own life would be "not worth living."

When the government can steer vulnerable individuals to conclude
for themselves that life is not worth living, who needs a death
panel?

It steers nothing. I found it to be a neutral document which helps
people to determine how they want to be treated during their last
days.

I'm proud of Oregon for having a death-with-dignity law and Mom
wants to come up here if she starts to decline so she, too, has
that option. We watched my grandmother (Dad's side) die of stomach
cancer (2 horrible, painful years) and the whole family decided
that we ABSOLUTELY did not want to die that way.

This hurry-up-and-die message is clear and unconscionable. Worse,
a July 2009 VA directive instructs its primary care physicians to
raise advance care planning with all VA patients and to refer them
to "Your Life, Your Choices." Not just those of advanced age and
debilitated condition-all patients. America's 24 million veterans
deserve better. And as you might guess, only one organization was
listed in the new version as a resource on advance directives: the
Hemlock Society (now euphemistically known as "Compassion and
Choices").


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...57435859010798...

"Your Life, Your Choices." :

http://www.rihlp.org/pubs/Your_life_your_choices.pdf

I urge everyone to read this booklet and get your living will/power
of attorney/compact health directive done ASAP.

I agree wholeheartedly, having been in a similar circumstance. My
papers are in order. Yours should be, too.

Now you have heard it from both sides of the aisle. That anyone
would have turned this most important subject into a political
"football" is truly despicable.

"The controversy stems from an opinion piece published last Tuesday
in the Wall Street Journal and written by Jim Towey, who was
director of the Bush White House's Office of Faith-Based Initiatives
from 2002 to 2006. "

--
John R. Carroll

The controversy may stem from that piece, but the fires are fanned by
the ignorant people who choose to blindly follow this ridiculous line
of thinking. They'd rather have everyone dead than pass a piece of
"liberal" legislation (even though the entire "death panel" amendment
was proposed by republicans). Yup, it's scorched earth for them, can't
let the other side win.

The entire "death panel" is a study in ignorance.
We really have had medical death panels here in the US and anyone that wants
to talk seriously about health-care and "death panel" would would know it.

Those "death panel" boards were set up for kidney dialysis selection and in
the beginning, the half or more that weren't selected just died. That's how
the private sector works.

That ended when ------- A Democrat controlled House and Senate voted to
cover treatment under that program many retards would like to keep the feds
OUT of.
Medicare.

Stupid ****ing people....



--
John R. Carroll

What all of this has to do with rec.crafts.metalworking?

"nobody" wrote in message
...
What all of this has to do with rec.crafts.metalworking?



Metal caskets?

On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:23:19 -0400, the infamous "nobody"
scrawled the following:

What all of this has to do with rec.crafts.metalworking?

What part of "OT" in the subject field do you fail to understand?

--
A striking fact of the last two years of financial trouble is how
accountability has differed in the public and private spheres. On
Wall Street and across the country, decades-old firms have failed,
fortunes have vanished, and some former captains of finance face
jail or fines. In Washington, meanwhile, most regulators and Members
of Congress remain on the job, often with enhanced power.
-WSJ "Bernanke's Second Chance" 26aug09

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:23:19 -0400, the infamous "nobody"
scrawled the following:

What all of this has to do with rec.crafts.metalworking?

What part of "OT" in the subject field do you fail to understand?

The newsgroup is littered with 90% political crap and more off topic stuff
is not needed. By the time everyone wasted their available free time,
nothing left for the newsgroup.

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:32:59 -0400, "nobody" wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:23:19 -0400, the infamous "nobody"
scrawled the following:

What all of this has to do with rec.crafts.metalworking?

What part of "OT" in the subject field do you fail to understand?

The newsgroup is littered with 90% political crap and more off topic stuff
is not needed. By the time everyone wasted their available free time,
nothing left for the newsgroup.

So killfile everyone or block every post. Then you will have all the
time you need to read the newsgroup.

Gunner

Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.