I've been out of the shop for quite a number of weeks now due to
experimenting with drugs. (Kaiser's idea, not mine) Anyway, I've handled
most everything I need to at home with a phone and a laptop. However, one
of my engineers working on a long-term project that is really a bunch of
short-term projects bolted together, has gone off the deep end. A simple
mechanism that's supposed to have 3 limit switches bolted on some PVC pipe
mounted in plywood. It will have a wire coming from a spool pass through it
and the switches will turn on and off a feed unit as the wire gets tight or
loose. The third switch turns everything off if the wire jams up. I
penciled on a sheet of paper what I wanted not thinking it wasn't worth CAD
drawings.

In my absence, the engineer has created the most complicated Rube Goldberg
monster that he possibly could. I was in the shop yesterday to review
everything and was shown the CAD drawings of all 20 of the precision parts.
Since we need three of these mechanisms and there's more than one each of
the parts needed for each mechanism, the machining time has run into weeks.
( I planned an afternoon for the PVC/Plywood version.)

I don't want to stifle creativity or initiative but WTF! Is there an
official name for this or have I coined the phrase?

When I was a lead engineer, I used to hand out KISS violations. Looked like
a speeding ticket. I had seen the form someplace, looked great when slapped
on a design.

Karl

Buerste wrote:
I've been out of the shop for quite a number of weeks now

(...)


That would be 'Feature creep':

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creeping_featurism

--Winston

"Buerste" wrote in message
...
I've been out of the shop for quite a number of weeks now due to
experimenting with drugs. (Kaiser's idea, not mine) Anyway, I've handled
most everything I need to at home with a phone and a laptop. However, one
of my engineers working on a long-term project that is really a bunch of
short-term projects bolted together, has gone off the deep end. A simple
mechanism that's supposed to have 3 limit switches bolted on some PVC pipe
mounted in plywood. It will have a wire coming from a spool pass through
it and the switches will turn on and off a feed unit as the wire gets
tight or loose. The third switch turns everything off if the wire jams
up. I penciled on a sheet of paper what I wanted not thinking it wasn't
worth CAD drawings.

In my absence, the engineer has created the most complicated Rube Goldberg
monster that he possibly could. I was in the shop yesterday to review
everything and was shown the CAD drawings of all 20 of the precision
parts. Since we need three of these mechanisms and there's more than one
each of the parts needed for each mechanism, the machining time has run
into weeks. ( I planned an afternoon for the PVC/Plywood version.)

I don't want to stifle creativity or initiative but WTF! Is there an
official name for this or have I coined the phrase?


giving you a serious answer - it is called "mis-communication" - the
engineer understood that you wanted a mechanism designed with certain
characteristics - he didn't understand the other constraints. Not being
there at the time, I can't tell you why this is, but I've been on both ends
of it - did you actually say, you can use 3 switches, some plywood and some
PVC pipe - this is to be "cheap and dirty"? if you said it, did he really
understand it? this is not a matter of stifling creativity - you don't have
to punish the guy (yet) but you do need to say "that's not what I had in
mind", explain what is wrong, and ask him how HE would suggest getting back
to your original intent.

When I had a lab of folks, I always "encouraged" failure, within some
limits - by that I mean, that if someone wanted to take an approach that I
was suspicious of, AND if it would not be fatal to the project, I would
express my reservations and say "go try it your way, but be on the lookout
for these issues" - sometimes their way was great, but if they ran into the
kinds of issues I pointed out and it got to be a problem, then there was buy
in to "my" way rather than having it dictated - this was much more
effective, and I got much better results - at least with every employee who
wanted to achieve results. I had a couple who were worthless, and could not
do anything - those had to go

On Aug 14, 3:20*pm, "Bill Noble" wrote:
"Buerste" wrote in message

...



I've been out of the shop for quite a number of weeks now due to
experimenting with drugs. *(Kaiser's idea, not mine) *Anyway, I've handled
most everything I need to at home with a phone and a laptop. *However, one
of my engineers working on a long-term project that is really a bunch of
short-term projects bolted together, has gone off the deep end. *A simple
mechanism that's supposed to have 3 limit switches bolted on some PVC pipe
mounted in plywood. *It will have a wire coming from a spool pass through
it and the switches will turn on and off a feed unit as the wire gets
tight or loose. *The third switch turns everything off if the wire jams
up. *I penciled on a sheet of paper what I wanted not thinking it wasn't
worth CAD drawings.

In my absence, the engineer has created the most complicated Rube Goldberg
monster that he possibly could. *I was in the shop yesterday to review
everything and was shown the CAD drawings of all 20 of the precision
parts. Since we need three of these mechanisms and there's more than one
each of the parts needed for each mechanism, the machining time has run
into weeks. ( I planned an afternoon for the PVC/Plywood version.)

I don't want to stifle creativity or initiative but WTF! *Is there an
official name for this or have I coined the phrase?

giving you a serious answer - it is called "mis-communication" - the
engineer understood that you wanted a mechanism designed with certain
characteristics - he didn't understand the other constraints. *Not being
there at the time, I can't tell you why this is, but I've been on both ends
of it - did you actually say, you can use 3 switches, some plywood and some
PVC pipe - this is to be "cheap and dirty"? *if you said it, did he really
understand it? *this is not a matter of stifling creativity - you don't have
to punish the guy (yet) but you do need to say "that's not what I had in
mind", explain what is wrong, and ask him how HE would suggest getting back
to your original intent.

When I had a lab of folks, I always "encouraged" failure, within some
limits - by that I mean, that if someone wanted to take an approach that I
was suspicious of, AND if it would not be fatal to the project, I would
express my reservations and say "go try it your way, but be on the lookout
for these issues" - sometimes their way was great, but if they ran into the
kinds of issues I pointed out and it got to be a problem, then there was buy
in to "my" way rather than having it dictated - this was much more
effective, and I got much better results - at least with every employee who
wanted to achieve results. *I had a couple who were worthless, and could not
do anything - those had to go

Bill,

Your methodology has worked and paid off in spades for me when I was
in charge of manufacturing engineering. Also allowed me to sleep much
better at night and on weekends:-))

buerste,

Did you tell your engineer your cost and schedule expectations? Life
expectancy of this device? Reliability requirements? I was at the
receiving end of such a situation as you describe, and once I
explained my reasons for my design decisions the powers-that-be agreed
with my decisions.

Issuing constraints after the job is done can drive one to drink.

Wolfgang

Buerste wrote:
I've been out of the shop for quite a number of weeks now due to
experimenting with drugs. (Kaiser's idea, not mine) Anyway, I've handled
most everything I need to at home with a phone and a laptop. However, one
of my engineers working on a long-term project that is really a bunch of
short-term projects bolted together, has gone off the deep end. A simple
mechanism that's supposed to have 3 limit switches bolted on some PVC pipe
mounted in plywood. It will have a wire coming from a spool pass through it
and the switches will turn on and off a feed unit as the wire gets tight or
loose. The third switch turns everything off if the wire jams up. I
penciled on a sheet of paper what I wanted not thinking it wasn't worth CAD
drawings.

In my absence, the engineer has created the most complicated Rube Goldberg
monster that he possibly could. I was in the shop yesterday to review
everything and was shown the CAD drawings of all 20 of the precision parts.
Since we need three of these mechanisms and there's more than one each of
the parts needed for each mechanism, the machining time has run into weeks.
( I planned an afternoon for the PVC/Plywood version.)

I don't want to stifle creativity or initiative but WTF! Is there an
official name for this or have I coined the phrase?



Is the guy who built it also the guy who will have to fix it when it
fouls up? Will he get yelled at for the downtime while he fixes it?

Sounds a bit like he overengineered it to make sure it will last and
work well. Unless he designed in failure modes...

Or he just didn't get it...

BTW, I can easily see how you trigger loose and taut, how do you measure
Jam? Is that just a second step past taut?

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:55:48 -0400, the infamous "Buerste"
scrawled the following:

I've been out of the shop for quite a number of weeks now due to
experimenting with drugs. (Kaiser's idea, not mine) Anyway, I've handled
most everything I need to at home with a phone and a laptop. However, one
of my engineers working on a long-term project that is really a bunch of
short-term projects bolted together, has gone off the deep end. A simple
mechanism that's supposed to have 3 limit switches bolted on some PVC pipe
mounted in plywood. It will have a wire coming from a spool pass through it
and the switches will turn on and off a feed unit as the wire gets tight or
loose. The third switch turns everything off if the wire jams up. I
penciled on a sheet of paper what I wanted not thinking it wasn't worth CAD
drawings.

In my absence, the engineer has created the most complicated Rube Goldberg
monster that he possibly could. I was in the shop yesterday to review
everything and was shown the CAD drawings of all 20 of the precision parts.
Since we need three of these mechanisms and there's more than one each of
the parts needed for each mechanism, the machining time has run into weeks.
( I planned an afternoon for the PVC/Plywood version.)

I don't want to stifle creativity or initiative but WTF! Is there an
official name for this or have I coined the phrase?

Dad used to have Retired Colonel's Syndrome. What you're looking at is
BES, or Bored Engineer's Syndrome. He was thinking "I could whip
something out in a couple hours, but I have all this time to kill, so
let's see what I can dream up...'

Don't you teach your workers the KISS principle, Druggie Tawm?

Get well soon.
xox

--
If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the
thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power
to revoke at any moment. -- Marcus Aurelius Antoninus

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:22:38 -0500, the infamous "Karl Townsend"
scrawled the following:

When I was a lead engineer, I used to hand out KISS violations. Looked like
a speeding ticket. I had seen the form someplace, looked great when slapped
on a design.

I _like_ it! vbg

--
If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the
thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power
to revoke at any moment. -- Marcus Aurelius Antoninus

"Buerste" wrote:

I've been out of the shop for quite a number of weeks now due to
experimenting with drugs. (Kaiser's idea, not mine) Anyway, I've handled
most everything I need to at home with a phone and a laptop. However, one
of my engineers working on a long-term project that is really a bunch of
short-term projects bolted together, has gone off the deep end. A simple
mechanism that's supposed to have 3 limit switches bolted on some PVC pipe
mounted in plywood. It will have a wire coming from a spool pass through it
and the switches will turn on and off a feed unit as the wire gets tight or
loose. The third switch turns everything off if the wire jams up. I
penciled on a sheet of paper what I wanted not thinking it wasn't worth CAD
drawings.

So you have an arm with a pulley designed to trap the wire and have the arm raised as
tension is applied. When the arm is high it is too tight, when it lowers to a point it is
too lose and when it falls down, the wire is jammed.

Arm has a cam or or three at pivot. (plywood is mounting surface). Done.

Wes

"Buerste" wrote:


In my absence, the engineer has created the most complicated Rube Goldberg
monster that he possibly could. I was in the shop yesterday to review
everything and was shown the CAD drawings of all 20 of the precision parts.
Since we need three of these mechanisms and there's more than one each of
the parts needed for each mechanism, the machining time has run into weeks.
( I planned an afternoon for the PVC/Plywood version.)


So you have an arm with a pulley designed to trap the wire and have the arm raised as
tension is applied. When the arm is high it is too tight, when it lowers to a point it is
too lose and when it falls down, the wire is jammed.

Arm has a cam or or three at pivot. (plywood is mounting surface). Done.

Tensioning arm is left for the student.

Btw, forte ate my post so I'm reposting. Sorry if it duplicates.

Wes

I don't want to stifle creativity or initiative but WTF! Is there an
official name for this or have I coined the phrase?


giving you a serious answer - it is called "mis-communication" - the
engineer understood that you wanted a mechanism designed with certain
characteristics - he didn't understand the other constraints. Not being
there at the time, I can't tell you why this is, but I've been on both
ends of it - did you actually say, you can use 3 switches, some plywood
and some PVC pipe - this is to be "cheap and dirty"? if you said it,
did he really understand it? this is not a matter of stifling
creativity - you don't have to punish the guy (yet) but you do need to
say "that's not what I had in mind", explain what is wrong, and ask him
how HE would suggest getting back to your original intent.

When I had a lab of folks, I always "encouraged" failure, within some
limits - by that I mean, that if someone wanted to take an approach that
I was suspicious of, AND if it would not be fatal to the project, I
would express my reservations and say "go try it your way, but be on the
lookout for these issues" - sometimes their way was great, but if they
ran into the kinds of issues I pointed out and it got to be a problem,
then there was buy in to "my" way rather than having it dictated - this
was much more effective, and I got much better results - at least with
every employee who wanted to achieve results. I had a couple who were
worthless, and could not do anything - those had to go

I teach this design stuff, sure is hard to get all of these messages
across!!!!

"Stuart Wheaton" wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
I've been out of the shop for quite a number of weeks now due to
experimenting with drugs. (Kaiser's idea, not mine) Anyway, I've
handled most everything I need to at home with a phone and a laptop.
However, one of my engineers working on a long-term project that is
really a bunch of short-term projects bolted together, has gone off the
deep end. A simple mechanism that's supposed to have 3 limit switches
bolted on some PVC pipe mounted in plywood. It will have a wire coming
from a spool pass through it and the switches will turn on and off a feed
unit as the wire gets tight or loose. The third switch turns everything
off if the wire jams up. I penciled on a sheet of paper what I wanted
not thinking it wasn't worth CAD drawings.

In my absence, the engineer has created the most complicated Rube
Goldberg monster that he possibly could. I was in the shop yesterday to
review everything and was shown the CAD drawings of all 20 of the
precision parts. Since we need three of these mechanisms and there's more
than one each of the parts needed for each mechanism, the machining time
has run into weeks. ( I planned an afternoon for the PVC/Plywood
version.)

I don't want to stifle creativity or initiative but WTF! Is there an
official name for this or have I coined the phrase?

Is the guy who built it also the guy who will have to fix it when it fouls
up? Will he get yelled at for the downtime while he fixes it?

Sounds a bit like he overengineered it to make sure it will last and work
well. Unless he designed in failure modes...

Or he just didn't get it...

BTW, I can easily see how you trigger loose and taut, how do you measure
Jam? Is that just a second step past taut?

Exactly. That switch will be above the "Start Despoiling" and be in
parallel with the e-stop.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:55:48 -0400, the infamous "Buerste"
scrawled the following:

I've been out of the shop for quite a number of weeks now due to
experimenting with drugs. (Kaiser's idea, not mine) Anyway, I've handled
most everything I need to at home with a phone and a laptop. However, one
of my engineers working on a long-term project that is really a bunch of
short-term projects bolted together, has gone off the deep end. A simple
mechanism that's supposed to have 3 limit switches bolted on some PVC pipe
mounted in plywood. It will have a wire coming from a spool pass through
it
and the switches will turn on and off a feed unit as the wire gets tight
or
loose. The third switch turns everything off if the wire jams up. I
penciled on a sheet of paper what I wanted not thinking it wasn't worth
CAD
drawings.

In my absence, the engineer has created the most complicated Rube Goldberg
monster that he possibly could. I was in the shop yesterday to review
everything and was shown the CAD drawings of all 20 of the precision
parts.
Since we need three of these mechanisms and there's more than one each of
the parts needed for each mechanism, the machining time has run into
weeks.
( I planned an afternoon for the PVC/Plywood version.)

I don't want to stifle creativity or initiative but WTF! Is there an
official name for this or have I coined the phrase?

Dad used to have Retired Colonel's Syndrome. What you're looking at is
BES, or Bored Engineer's Syndrome. He was thinking "I could whip
something out in a couple hours, but I have all this time to kill, so
let's see what I can dream up...'

Don't you teach your workers the KISS principle, Druggie Tawm?

Get well soon.
xox

I try. Roger excels in our technology but he operates best when we have
frequent interaction. But, I'm still waiting for my product photographs
from one of the other departments....ARGH!

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Buerste" wrote:

I've been out of the shop for quite a number of weeks now due to
experimenting with drugs. (Kaiser's idea, not mine) Anyway, I've handled
most everything I need to at home with a phone and a laptop. However, one
of my engineers working on a long-term project that is really a bunch of
short-term projects bolted together, has gone off the deep end. A simple
mechanism that's supposed to have 3 limit switches bolted on some PVC pipe
mounted in plywood. It will have a wire coming from a spool pass through
it
and the switches will turn on and off a feed unit as the wire gets tight
or
loose. The third switch turns everything off if the wire jams up. I
penciled on a sheet of paper what I wanted not thinking it wasn't worth
CAD
drawings.

So you have an arm with a pulley designed to trap the wire and have the
arm raised as
tension is applied. When the arm is high it is too tight, when it lowers
to a point it is
too lose and when it falls down, the wire is jammed.

Arm has a cam or or three at pivot. (plywood is mounting surface). Done.

Wes

We've used dancers for years and need to improve. The new set-up replaces
such and has almost no mass or inertia like the dancers.

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 03:41:53 -0400, the infamous "Buerste"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:55:48 -0400, the infamous "Buerste"
scrawled the following:

I've been out of the shop for quite a number of weeks now due to
experimenting with drugs. (Kaiser's idea, not mine) Anyway, I've handled
most everything I need to at home with a phone and a laptop. However, one
of my engineers working on a long-term project that is really a bunch of
short-term projects bolted together, has gone off the deep end. A simple
mechanism that's supposed to have 3 limit switches bolted on some PVC pipe
mounted in plywood. It will have a wire coming from a spool pass through
it
and the switches will turn on and off a feed unit as the wire gets tight
or
loose. The third switch turns everything off if the wire jams up. I
penciled on a sheet of paper what I wanted not thinking it wasn't worth
CAD
drawings.

In my absence, the engineer has created the most complicated Rube Goldberg
monster that he possibly could. I was in the shop yesterday to review
everything and was shown the CAD drawings of all 20 of the precision
parts.
Since we need three of these mechanisms and there's more than one each of
the parts needed for each mechanism, the machining time has run into
weeks.
( I planned an afternoon for the PVC/Plywood version.)

I don't want to stifle creativity or initiative but WTF! Is there an
official name for this or have I coined the phrase?

Dad used to have Retired Colonel's Syndrome. What you're looking at is
BES, or Bored Engineer's Syndrome. He was thinking "I could whip
something out in a couple hours, but I have all this time to kill, so
let's see what I can dream up...'

Don't you teach your workers the KISS principle, Druggie Tawm?

Get well soon.
xox

I try. Roger excels in our technology but he operates best when we have
frequent interaction. But, I'm still waiting for my product photographs
from one of the other departments....ARGH!

Hey, fly me out. I'll take the photos myself.

--
If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the
thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power
to revoke at any moment. -- Marcus Aurelius Antoninus

"Buerste" wrote in message
...

In my absence, the engineer has created the most complicated Rube Goldberg
monster that he possibly could.

I have an engineer tell me that his job was to take something simple, cheap,
and efficiant, and engineer it into something complicated, expensive, and
pron to failure!
True story!!

"Greg O" wrote in message
...

"Buerste" wrote in message
...

In my absence, the engineer has created the most complicated Rube
Goldberg monster that he possibly could.

I have an engineer tell me that his job was to take something simple,
cheap, and efficiant, and engineer it into something complicated,
expensive, and pron to failure!
True story!!

yes, but engineers generally have a wry sense of humor

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 03:41:53 -0400, the infamous "Buerste"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:55:48 -0400, the infamous "Buerste"
scrawled the following:

I've been out of the shop for quite a number of weeks now due to
experimenting with drugs. (Kaiser's idea, not mine) Anyway, I've
handled
most everything I need to at home with a phone and a laptop. However,
one
of my engineers working on a long-term project that is really a bunch of
short-term projects bolted together, has gone off the deep end. A
simple
mechanism that's supposed to have 3 limit switches bolted on some PVC
pipe
mounted in plywood. It will have a wire coming from a spool pass
through
it
and the switches will turn on and off a feed unit as the wire gets tight
or
loose. The third switch turns everything off if the wire jams up. I
penciled on a sheet of paper what I wanted not thinking it wasn't worth
CAD
drawings.

In my absence, the engineer has created the most complicated Rube
Goldberg
monster that he possibly could. I was in the shop yesterday to review
everything and was shown the CAD drawings of all 20 of the precision
parts.
Since we need three of these mechanisms and there's more than one each
of
the parts needed for each mechanism, the machining time has run into
weeks.
( I planned an afternoon for the PVC/Plywood version.)

I don't want to stifle creativity or initiative but WTF! Is there an
official name for this or have I coined the phrase?

Dad used to have Retired Colonel's Syndrome. What you're looking at is
BES, or Bored Engineer's Syndrome. He was thinking "I could whip
something out in a couple hours, but I have all this time to kill, so
let's see what I can dream up...'

Don't you teach your workers the KISS principle, Druggie Tawm?

Get well soon.
xox

I try. Roger excels in our technology but he operates best when we have
frequent interaction. But, I'm still waiting for my product photographs
from one of the other departments....ARGH!

Hey, fly me out. I'll take the photos myself.


I'll send you my sister's broom.

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 07:20:06 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 03:41:53 -0400, the infamous "Buerste"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:55:48 -0400, the infamous "Buerste"
scrawled the following:

I've been out of the shop for quite a number of weeks now due to
experimenting with drugs. (Kaiser's idea, not mine) Anyway, I've handled
most everything I need to at home with a phone and a laptop. However, one
of my engineers working on a long-term project that is really a bunch of
short-term projects bolted together, has gone off the deep end. A simple
mechanism that's supposed to have 3 limit switches bolted on some PVC pipe
mounted in plywood. It will have a wire coming from a spool pass through
it
and the switches will turn on and off a feed unit as the wire gets tight
or
loose. The third switch turns everything off if the wire jams up. I
penciled on a sheet of paper what I wanted not thinking it wasn't worth
CAD
drawings.

In my absence, the engineer has created the most complicated Rube Goldberg
monster that he possibly could. I was in the shop yesterday to review
everything and was shown the CAD drawings of all 20 of the precision
parts.
Since we need three of these mechanisms and there's more than one each of
the parts needed for each mechanism, the machining time has run into
weeks.
( I planned an afternoon for the PVC/Plywood version.)

I don't want to stifle creativity or initiative but WTF! Is there an
official name for this or have I coined the phrase?

Dad used to have Retired Colonel's Syndrome. What you're looking at is
BES, or Bored Engineer's Syndrome. He was thinking "I could whip
something out in a couple hours, but I have all this time to kill, so
let's see what I can dream up...'

Don't you teach your workers the KISS principle, Druggie Tawm?

Get well soon.
xox

I try. Roger excels in our technology but he operates best when we have
frequent interaction. But, I'm still waiting for my product photographs
from one of the other departments....ARGH!

Hey, fly me out. I'll take the photos myself.


Ill bring my Hassy and the Nikons...and let Larry carry the strobes

G


'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith
becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact
equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man
because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the
person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...
There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag,
the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the
English language.. and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people.'
Theodore Ro osevelt 1907

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:37:23 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:


"Greg O" wrote in message
...

"Buerste" wrote in message
...

In my absence, the engineer has created the most complicated Rube
Goldberg monster that he possibly could.

I have an engineer tell me that his job was to take something simple,
cheap, and efficiant, and engineer it into something complicated,
expensive, and pron to failure!
True story!!

yes, but engineers generally have a wry sense of humor

If we have one at all.

--
Ned Simmons

"Buerste" wrote:

We've used dancers for years and need to improve. The new set-up replaces
such and has almost no mass or inertia like the dancers.

What did you expect with the data I had to work with?

Wes

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:47:39 -0400, the infamous "Buerste"
scrawled the following:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .

Hey, fly me out. I'll take the photos myself.

I'll send you my sister's broom.

KEWL! Is it a Nimbus 2000? Huh? Huh? Huh?

--
If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the
thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power
to revoke at any moment. -- Marcus Aurelius Antoninus

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:13:48 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

Ill bring my Hassy and the Nikons...and let Larry carry the strobes

If it's a tandem broom, I'll swing down and pick you up on the way.

--
If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the
thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power
to revoke at any moment. -- Marcus Aurelius Antoninus

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:10:36 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:13:48 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

Ill bring my Hassy and the Nikons...and let Larry carry the strobes

If it's a tandem broom, I'll swing down and pick you up on the way.


Cool!!! Do I get to wear my leathers?


'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith
becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact
equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man
because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the
person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...
There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag,
the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the
English language.. and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people.'
Theodore Ro osevelt 1907

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:05:46 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:10:36 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:13:48 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

Ill bring my Hassy and the Nikons...and let Larry carry the strobes

If it's a tandem broom, I'll swing down and pick you up on the way.


Cool!!! Do I get to wear my leathers?

I'll have to check the manual to see if they'll stand up to 1kph+
speeds. I'll need a good flight suit, too.

The hour-and-a-half trip should be lots of fun, what with dodging
birds and playing chicken with commercial airliners.

--
If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the
thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power
to revoke at any moment. -- Marcus Aurelius Antoninus