On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:56:20 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley
wrote:

On 20 Mar, 16:54, "SteveB" wrote:
I have heard that if you sit a battery on the ground or concrete that it
will lose its charge faster. Is this true?

Yes, in the Winter. Doesn't have to be cold enough to freeze, just
cold enough to get stratified layers of acid concentration in there.

No, it won't!

Anecdotal evidence: the batteries that I have sitting on a concrete
floor don't discharge any faster than those sitting in vehicles.

Logical argument: in wintertime (or any other time) the ground is
alternately warmer than and colder than air temps because air temps
vary diurnally while ground temp stays at about the average air
temperature -- or slightly warmer if there's no snow and it gets some
solar radiation.

Reference or "cite" evidence:
"Batteries self-discharge faster at higher temperatures. Lifespan can
also be seriously reduced at higher temperatures - most manufacturers
state this as a 50% loss in life for every 15 degrees F over a 77
degree cell temperature. Lifespan is increased at the same rate if
below 77 degrees, but capacity is reduced. This tends to even out in
most systems - they will spend part of their life at higher
temperatures, and part at lower.

Myth: The old myth about not storing batteries on concrete floors is
just that - a myth. This story has been around for 100 years, and
originated back when battery cases were made up of wood and asphalt.
The acid would leak from them, and form a slow-discharging circuit
through the now acid-soaked and conductive floor."

ref:
http://www.wind-sun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm

On Mar 20, 7:01�pm, "Robert Swinney" wrote:
Don sez:: " Myth: The old myth about not storing batteries on concrete floors is
just that - a myth. This story has been around for 100 years, and
originated back when battery cases were made up of wood and asphalt.
The acid would leak from them, and form a slow-discharging circuit
through the now acid-soaked and conductive floor."

The myth got started because the batteries that were set out on the floor were bad already. �That's
why they sat 'em aside in the first place. �Then some dufus comes along and tests a couple of them
and walla! "None o' these here batteries ain't no good, must be the floor!"

Bob Swinney

I like this explanation. Can anyone describe the path the electrons
would take to discharge a battery through an acid soaked floor?

Engineman

" wrote:

On Mar 20, 7:01�pm, "Robert Swinney" wrote:
Don sez:: " Myth: The old myth about not storing batteries on concrete floors is
just that - a myth. This story has been around for 100 years, and
originated back when battery cases were made up of wood and asphalt.
The acid would leak from them, and form a slow-discharging circuit
through the now acid-soaked and conductive floor."

The myth got started because the batteries that were set out on the floor were bad already. �That's
why they sat 'em aside in the first place. �Then some dufus comes along and tests a couple of them
and walla! "None o' these here batteries ain't no good, must be the floor!"

Bob Swinney

I like this explanation. Can anyone describe the path the electrons
would take to discharge a battery through an acid soaked floor?

Engineman

All batteries self discharge. If a battery can leak the lead and
acid solution into the concrete, those leaks are conductive and are
another path for the battery to discharge. That's why you can find a
single bad cell, several, or all of them bad, depending on which cells
are leaking.


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Add this line to your news proxy nfilter.dat file
* drop Path:*aioe.org!not-for-mail to drop all aioe.org traffic.

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On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:19:52 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Mar 20, 7:01?pm, "Robert Swinney" wrote:
Don sez:: " Myth: The old myth about not storing batteries on concrete floors is
just that - a myth. This story has been around for 100 years, and
originated back when battery cases were made up of wood and asphalt.
The acid would leak from them, and form a slow-discharging circuit
through the now acid-soaked and conductive floor."

The myth got started because the batteries that were set out on the floor were bad already. ?That's
why they sat 'em aside in the first place. ?Then some dufus comes along and tests a couple of them
and walla! "None o' these here batteries ain't no good, must be the floor!"

Bob Swinney

I like this explanation. Can anyone describe the path the electrons
would take to discharge a battery through an acid soaked floor?

Engineman

Yeah, I noticed that too. So much for the credibilty of that
explanation!

BTW, Bob, Don didn't say that -- the website said that.

Fact remains, I have a couple of batteries sitting on a concrete
garage floor in MN that self-discharge no more rapidly than those in
my fiberglass boat. Years ago I set one battery on a bit of 3/4"
plywood and another on the concrete floor right next to it. No
difference in self-discharge after several months. I quit worrying
about it at that point.

YMMV.

Don Foreman wrote:
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:56:20 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley
wrote:


On 20 Mar, 16:54, "SteveB" wrote:

I have heard that if you sit a battery on the ground or concrete that it
will lose its charge faster. Is this true?

Yes, in the Winter. Doesn't have to be cold enough to freeze, just
cold enough to get stratified layers of acid concentration in there.


No, it won't!

Anecdotal evidence: the batteries that I have sitting on a concrete
floor don't discharge any faster than those sitting in vehicles.

Logical argument: in wintertime (or any other time) the ground is
alternately warmer than and colder than air temps because air temps
vary diurnally while ground temp stays at about the average air
temperature -- or slightly warmer if there's no snow and it gets some
solar radiation.

Reference or "cite" evidence:
"Batteries self-discharge faster at higher temperatures. Lifespan can
also be seriously reduced at higher temperatures - most manufacturers
state this as a 50% loss in life for every 15 degrees F over a 77
degree cell temperature.

So, since the battery in my '04 Lincoln is next to the spare under the
trunk mat and the one in SWIMBO's '03 Buick is under the back seat, that
should be a bennie for us, since the batteries won't be jubjected to all
that engine heat when the cars are running. G

Jeff (Who's old enuf to remember when many car's batteries were located
under the right front seat.)


--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.


Lifespan is increased at the same rate if
below 77 degrees, but capacity is reduced. This tends to even out in
most systems - they will spend part of their life at higher
temperatures, and part at lower.

Myth: The old myth about not storing batteries on concrete floors is
just that - a myth. This story has been around for 100 years, and
originated back when battery cases were made up of wood and asphalt.
The acid would leak from them, and form a slow-discharging circuit
through the now acid-soaked and conductive floor."

ref:
http://www.wind-sun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm

On 2008-03-21, Jeff Wisnia wrote:

[ ... ]

Jeff (Who's old enuf to remember when many car's batteries were located
under the right front seat.)

Well ... I remember that my MGA's batteries (two 6V ones in
series to make 12V) were one behind the driver's seat and one behind the
passenger's seat -- with a jumper cable looping over the driveshaft.

One was over the exhaust pipe, and the other just over open air,
and I don't remember one failing any faster than the other.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

There is no completion of the circuit. So, one has acid-soaked wood and
acid-soaked concrete. It is doubtful that this acid-soaked environment
would exhibit enough conductance through the reverse path, to discharge a
lead-acid battery.

j/b

wrote in message
...
On Mar 20, 7:01?pm, "Robert Swinney" wrote:
Don sez:: " Myth: The old myth about not storing batteries on concrete
floors is
just that - a myth. This story has been around for 100 years, and
originated back when battery cases were made up of wood and asphalt.
The acid would leak from them, and form a slow-discharging circuit
through the now acid-soaked and conductive floor."

The myth got started because the batteries that were set out on the floor
were bad already. ?That's
why they sat 'em aside in the first place. ?Then some dufus comes along
and tests a couple of them
and walla! "None o' these here batteries ain't no good, must be the
floor!"

Bob Swinney

I like this explanation. Can anyone describe the path the electrons
would take to discharge a battery through an acid soaked floor?

Engineman