While I have you on the line... g

I have an outdoor light on a pole which is attached to a stand by
three bolts ... er, actually they're not really bolts... studs I
suppose is a more apt description. Anyway, these are welded into the
pole and slide into slots in the base where they're secured by square
nuts. To stop the pole from moving side to side you tighten up the
square nuts. Unfortunately the nuts are recessed so I can't get a
normal open-ended or adjustable wrench onto them. If they were hex
(which I want to replace them with) I'd use a socket without any
problem.

So what I need is a four-point socket but unfortunately I don't see
any such thing available. Alternatively, those plumbing tubular
wrenches that are used on recessed shower faucets would be good if
only they had a square end. I seem to remember about twenty years ago
seeing an adjustable wrench (like a pipe wrench) that had thin
triangular faces that would also do the job. Maybe it was even made
for this sort of problem.

Someone put these nuts on so there must be a solution somewhere. Of
course the light is about fifty years old and has no obvious brand
name so I can't ask the mfg.

Anyone have any suggestions?

wrote:
While I have you on the line... g
(Square four - sided nuts recessed. Gotta remove them.)
Anyone have any suggestions?

What size ya need?

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...&PARTPG=INLMK3

--Winston

Tried a 12-point socket?

Jordan

wrote:

So what I need is a four-point socket

Sold as 8 point sockets all the time. Sears and all makers

Regards
Phredd


wrote:
While I have you on the line... g

I have an outdoor light on a pole which is attached to a stand by
three bolts ... er, actually they're not really bolts... studs I
suppose is a more apt description. Anyway, these are welded into the
pole and slide into slots in the base where they're secured by square
nuts. To stop the pole from moving side to side you tighten up the
square nuts. Unfortunately the nuts are recessed so I can't get a
normal open-ended or adjustable wrench onto them. If they were hex
(which I want to replace them with) I'd use a socket without any
problem.

So what I need is a four-point socket but unfortunately I don't see
any such thing available. Alternatively, those plumbing tubular
wrenches that are used on recessed shower faucets would be good if
only they had a square end. I seem to remember about twenty years ago
seeing an adjustable wrench (like a pipe wrench) that had thin
triangular faces that would also do the job. Maybe it was even made
for this sort of problem.

Someone put these nuts on so there must be a solution somewhere. Of
course the light is about fifty years old and has no obvious brand
name so I can't ask the mfg.

Anyone have any suggestions?

"Winston" wrote in message
t...
wrote:
While I have you on the line... g
(Square four - sided nuts recessed. Gotta remove them.)
Anyone have any suggestions?

What size ya need?

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...&PARTPG=INLMK3

--Winston

Yeah, Winston. But I can count. What do you do with those four extra
points?

Steve ;-)

wrote in message
...
While I have you on the line... g

I have an outdoor light on a pole which is attached to a stand by
three bolts ... er, actually they're not really bolts... studs I
suppose is a more apt description. Anyway, these are welded into the
pole and slide into slots in the base where they're secured by square
nuts. To stop the pole from moving side to side you tighten up the
square nuts. Unfortunately the nuts are recessed so I can't get a
normal open-ended or adjustable wrench onto them. If they were hex
(which I want to replace them with) I'd use a socket without any
problem.

So what I need is a four-point socket but unfortunately I don't see
any such thing available. Alternatively, those plumbing tubular
wrenches that are used on recessed shower faucets would be good if
only they had a square end. I seem to remember about twenty years ago
seeing an adjustable wrench (like a pipe wrench) that had thin
triangular faces that would also do the job. Maybe it was even made
for this sort of problem.

Someone put these nuts on so there must be a solution somewhere. Of
course the light is about fifty years old and has no obvious brand
name so I can't ask the mfg.

Anyone have any suggestions?


Hi,

Here in the UK many of the sockets provided with your common or garden
"Socket Sets" are what are called "BiHex". This means that instead of having
only 6 corners, to match a standard Hex nut they have 12 corners. This is
done I believe to ease the problem of getting the socket to engage with the
nut when you can't see what you are doing.
Now as 12 can be divided by 4 (flats or corners on your nut) exactly, you
should be able to find a socket which fits the 4 flat nut satisfactorily.
For example I have here a 1/2 inch AF square nut which fits nicely into a
5/8 inch AF BiHex socket.

Give it a go, and good luck!

Ian.

There is a strong chance that the square involved will fit the
back end of socket set extension bar. If it happens to fit the
1/4, 3/8, or 1/2 drive extension insert the extension and use a
Crescent on the exposed end.

You might also own some 12 point sockets. They can fit a square,
if they can fit through the recessed hole.

Sure beats buying something for a one time use, though I have
sworn to buy a set of 4 point sockets for a little over 40 years
now.

(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




wrote in message
...
While I have you on the line... g

I have an outdoor light on a pole which is attached to a stand
by
three bolts ... er, actually they're not really bolts... studs I
suppose is a more apt description. Anyway, these are welded into
the
pole and slide into slots in the base where they're secured by
square
nuts. To stop the pole from moving side to side you tighten up
the
square nuts. Unfortunately the nuts are recessed so I can't get
a
normal open-ended or adjustable wrench onto them. If they were
hex
(which I want to replace them with) I'd use a socket without any
problem.

So what I need is a four-point socket but unfortunately I don't
see
any such thing available. Alternatively, those plumbing tubular
wrenches that are used on recessed shower faucets would be good
if
only they had a square end. I seem to remember about twenty
years ago
seeing an adjustable wrench (like a pipe wrench) that had thin
triangular faces that would also do the job. Maybe it was even
made
for this sort of problem.

Someone put these nuts on so there must be a solution somewhere.
Of
course the light is about fifty years old and has no obvious
brand
name so I can't ask the mfg.

Anyone have any suggestions?

"DanG" wrote:

There is a strong chance that the square involved will fit the
back end of socket set extension bar. If it happens to fit the
1/4, 3/8, or 1/2 drive extension insert the extension and use a
Crescent on the exposed end.

You might also own some 12 point sockets. They can fit a square,
if they can fit through the recessed hole.

I've tried 12 point sockets but they're too big to fit in the recess.
Further, the sockets have very little gripping area on a square nut.
Although I obviously haven't tried since I can't fit it in I suspect
that the 12 point would damage the corners beyond repair very quickly
especially as the lamp base, being outside, is somewhat rusty.

The "back end" for 1/2 and 3/4 aren't the right size -- I think it's
7/8 -- but even if I could get one the recess would prevent insertion.

Sure beats buying something for a one time use, though I have
sworn to buy a set of 4 point sockets for a little over 40 years
now.

Let us know when you find one g.

Thanks to all the other posters too for their suggestions.

The lamp only moves in a very high wind and can be easily brought back
to the vertical so it's not desperate. When it becomes such I can gain
some access to the top of the nuts so I'll use a cold chisel to
(hopefully) remove and destroy them. If that doesn't work I can always
buy a new lamp g.


(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




wrote in message
.. .
While I have you on the line... g

I have an outdoor light on a pole which is attached to a stand
by
three bolts ... er, actually they're not really bolts... studs I
suppose is a more apt description. Anyway, these are welded into
the
pole and slide into slots in the base where they're secured by
square
nuts. To stop the pole from moving side to side you tighten up
the
square nuts. Unfortunately the nuts are recessed so I can't get
a
normal open-ended or adjustable wrench onto them. If they were
hex
(which I want to replace them with) I'd use a socket without any
problem.

So what I need is a four-point socket but unfortunately I don't
see
any such thing available. Alternatively, those plumbing tubular
wrenches that are used on recessed shower faucets would be good
if
only they had a square end. I seem to remember about twenty
years ago
seeing an adjustable wrench (like a pipe wrench) that had thin
triangular faces that would also do the job. Maybe it was even
made
for this sort of problem.

Someone put these nuts on so there must be a solution somewhere.
Of
course the light is about fifty years old and has no obvious
brand
name so I can't ask the mfg.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Try making a tube spanner by heating the end of a thin-walled steel tube
(size?) to red-hot, then hammer a square of the size you want into it.
The square would need to be tapered on the entry side.

Jordan

wrote:
I'll use a cold chisel to
(hopefully) remove and destroy them. If that doesn't work I can always
buy a new lamp g.

wrote in
:

The "back end" for 1/2 and 3/4 aren't the right size -- I think it's
7/8 -- but even if I could get one the recess would prevent insertion.

This might work depending on the diameter of the recess.

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....l&item_ID=3455
&group_ID=394&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

Otherwise you might be able to make a pin spanner with four pins out of a
piece of flat stock.

--

Dan

Any chance a piece of square tube stock would fit?
Just cut to length, drill a hole in it and turn with a screwdriver.

mark
wrote in message
...
While I have you on the line... g

I have an outdoor light on a pole which is attached to a stand by
three bolts ... er, actually they're not really bolts... studs I
suppose is a more apt description. Anyway, these are welded into the
pole and slide into slots in the base where they're secured by square
nuts. To stop the pole from moving side to side you tighten up the
square nuts. Unfortunately the nuts are recessed so I can't get a
normal open-ended or adjustable wrench onto them. If they were hex
(which I want to replace them with) I'd use a socket without any
problem.

So what I need is a four-point socket but unfortunately I don't see
any such thing available. Alternatively, those plumbing tubular
wrenches that are used on recessed shower faucets would be good if
only they had a square end. I seem to remember about twenty years ago
seeing an adjustable wrench (like a pipe wrench) that had thin
triangular faces that would also do the job. Maybe it was even made
for this sort of problem.

Someone put these nuts on so there must be a solution somewhere. Of
course the light is about fifty years old and has no obvious brand
name so I can't ask the mfg.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Steve B wrote:
"Winston" wrote in message
t...

wrote:

While I have you on the line... g

(Square four - sided nuts recessed. Gotta remove them.)

Anyone have any suggestions?


What size ya need?

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...&PARTPG=INLMK3

--Winston


Yeah, Winston. But I can count. What do you do with those four extra
points?

Usually I comb my hair over them.

--Winston

According to Steve B :

"Winston" wrote in message
t...
wrote:
While I have you on the line... g
(Square four - sided nuts recessed. Gotta remove them.)
Anyone have any suggestions?

What size ya need?

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...&PARTPG=INLMK3

--Winston

Yeah, Winston. But I can count. What do you do with those four extra
points?

Use them when it is inconvenient to rotate the socket 45 degrees
to get alignment.

Really -- the majority of the force from a socket onto a nut or
bolt head is applied out near the corners -- maximum radius from the
center, so it generates the most torque for a given force.

If your size does happen to be a common socket drive size, and
the diameter of the back of an extension is too great to allow you to
fit the socket so formed over the nut, thanks to the recess in which it
is mounted, why not get a cheap extension, clamp it in the lathe, and
turn the OD of the back down to fit in the recess -- all the way down to
the corners if necessary. Turn down just sufficient length to let it
bottom, so you have as much metal left as possible supporting the four
sides.

If you can't find an extension with the right size socket, take
some square stock the same size as the nut's square (or is it a bolt
head?), clamp four pieces of flat steel to the sides (perhaps with a
ring with four setscrews -- or even better, a longer collar with four
pairs of setscrews), put it in the lathe, and turn the ends of the four
pieces of flat steel down to a round shape just touching the corners of
the cavity, and then turn that original square with an open-end or even
a Crescent wrench while pressing it in to the side of the lamp column.

After all -- you intend to replace these nuts or bolt heads with
the more common hex ones once you have them out, don't you? So a
permanent tool is not really needed -- just something which will pull
the old ones out.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

In article ,
wrote:

[...]

Anyone have any suggestions?


Pipe, hammer, pipe wrench. Or a 12-point socket.

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net

wrote:

"DanG" wrote:

The "back end" for 1/2 and 3/4 aren't the right size -- I think it's
7/8 -- but even if I could get one the recess would prevent insertion.

Sure beats buying something for a one time use, though I have
sworn to buy a set of 4 point sockets for a little over 40 years
now.

Let us know when you find one g.

D Murphy pointed out an individual 8 point-er at

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....re&dir=catalog

In my other thread (about an NPS die) tomcas suggested

http://www1.mscdirect.com/

and they have individual 4 point-ers in their impact sockets line.
Also note the lines of T-handle square sockets and 90 degree square
black oxide socket head wrenches on:

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF...2217&PMCTLG=00

Very expensive but I guess if you're flush with bucks it is possible
to assemble a set g.

Just in case anyone is still interested...

wrote:

So what I need is a four-point socket but unfortunately I don't see
any such thing available. Alternatively, those plumbing tubular
wrenches that are used on recessed shower faucets would be good if
only they had a square end. I seem to remember about twenty years ago
seeing an adjustable wrench (like a pipe wrench) that had thin
triangular faces that would also do the job. Maybe it was even made
for this sort of problem.

Found my adjustable square nut wrench too at the same place (MCS
Industrial Supply)! Go to:

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/N2DRVSH?PMSECT=2007569

Then cut the selection by picking only Stanley. There's even three
sizes!