I am starting on welding aluminium,and the type of joint
is in this way the thickness is mm.1.5 :

_|

so that the two edge have a light in the corner proximity.

I have tried in a lot of ways, but every time when I go
on the external corner the edge is melted.

I try also with filler-rod with very bad results.

If the joint has no light and one edge is over the other
I can see the puddle of the melted aluminium and I can weld
with good results.

Has anybody an answer at my problem ?


Atomino

On 21 Aug 2005 23:09:36 -0700, "Atomino" wrote:

I am starting on welding aluminium,and the type of joint
is in this way the thickness is mm.1.5 :

_|

so that the two edge have a light in the corner proximity.

I have tried in a lot of ways, but every time when I go
on the external corner the edge is melted.

I try also with filler-rod with very bad results.

If the joint has no light and one edge is over the other
I can see the puddle of the melted aluminium and I can weld
with good results.

Has anybody an answer at my problem ?


Atomino

What works for me..the very amature welder..is to put both pieces
inside a piece of steel "L", clamp securely and then weld. The steel
acts as a dam and doesnt let the melted aluminum flow away instead of
forming a fillet. Only reason I use steel, is I cant find a big enough
piece of copper. Shrug It does require a piece of L steel with a
sharp inside corner, but I simply ran a chunk though the milling
machine and made sharp inside corners. I welded a couple bars to the
pointed side fo the L so when its sitting on the bench, the steel is
in a V shape with the open end, up. Made life a hell of a lot easier
for me. But then..Im not a welder.


Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Tsk,tsk,tsk, Gunner! Real men only use oxy-acet for aluminum, don't you
know?

Bob Swinney
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On 21 Aug 2005 23:09:36 -0700, "Atomino" wrote:

I am starting on welding aluminium,and the type of joint
is in this way the thickness is mm.1.5 :

_|

so that the two edge have a light in the corner proximity.

I have tried in a lot of ways, but every time when I go
on the external corner the edge is melted.

I try also with filler-rod with very bad results.

If the joint has no light and one edge is over the other
I can see the puddle of the melted aluminium and I can weld
with good results.

Has anybody an answer at my problem ?


Atomino

What works for me..the very amature welder..is to put both pieces
inside a piece of steel "L", clamp securely and then weld. The steel
acts as a dam and doesnt let the melted aluminum flow away instead of
forming a fillet. Only reason I use steel, is I cant find a big enough
piece of copper. Shrug It does require a piece of L steel with a
sharp inside corner, but I simply ran a chunk though the milling
machine and made sharp inside corners. I welded a couple bars to the
pointed side fo the L so when its sitting on the bench, the steel is
in a V shape with the open end, up. Made life a hell of a lot easier
for me. But then..Im not a welder.


Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Atomino wrote:
I am starting on welding aluminium,and the type of joint
is in this way the thickness is mm.1.5 :

_|

so that the two edge have a light in the corner proximity.

I have tried in a lot of ways, but every time when I go
on the external corner the edge is melted.

I try also with filler-rod with very bad results.

If the joint has no light and one edge is over the other
I can see the puddle of the melted aluminium and I can weld
with good results.

Has anybody an answer at my problem ?


Atomino

They really need to be touching. Use filler, it also cools the weld
before it drips away. Try preheating. less current and more patience.
Aluminum oxidizes in 15 minutes, so really clean, really soon.

I actually found welding corners easier than other things, since both
edges tend to melt at the same rate. Which reminds me, aiming the torch
bakc and forth to even the heat.

I'm not a weldor either, but this works for me

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 09:23:24 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On 21 Aug 2005 23:09:36 -0700, "Atomino" wrote:

I am starting on welding aluminium,and the type of joint
is in this way the thickness is mm.1.5 :

_|

so that the two edge have a light in the corner proximity.

I have tried in a lot of ways, but every time when I go
on the external corner the edge is melted.

I try also with filler-rod with very bad results.

If the joint has no light and one edge is over the other
I can see the puddle of the melted aluminium and I can weld
with good results.

Has anybody an answer at my problem ?


Atomino

What works for me..the very amature welder..is to put both pieces
inside a piece of steel "L", clamp securely and then weld. The steel
acts as a dam and doesnt let the melted aluminum flow away instead of
forming a fillet. Only reason I use steel, is I cant find a big enough
piece of copper. Shrug It does require a piece of L steel with a
sharp inside corner, but I simply ran a chunk though the milling
machine and made sharp inside corners. I welded a couple bars to the
pointed side fo the L so when its sitting on the bench, the steel is
in a V shape with the open end, up. Made life a hell of a lot easier
for me. But then..Im not a welder.

I found a 1" x 1" x 12" bar of copper to use as backup behind the
weld, welding from the outside. I milled a small chamfer on one
corner so it doesn't chill the puddle until it's clear thru the
aluminum, but it still supports the adjoining aluminum.

For 1.5 mm aluminum, I'd be inclined to use oxy-acetylene. It makes a
more ductile weld than TIG does, don't know why.

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:43:31 -0500, "Robert Swinney"
wrote:

Tsk,tsk,tsk, Gunner! Real men only use oxy-acet for aluminum, don't you
know?

Bob Swinney

Thats what Ive heard from those folks who dont own a 300 amp square
wave welder.

Gunner

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On 21 Aug 2005 23:09:36 -0700, "Atomino" wrote:

I am starting on welding aluminium,and the type of joint
is in this way the thickness is mm.1.5 :

_|

so that the two edge have a light in the corner proximity.

I have tried in a lot of ways, but every time when I go
on the external corner the edge is melted.

I try also with filler-rod with very bad results.

If the joint has no light and one edge is over the other
I can see the puddle of the melted aluminium and I can weld
with good results.

Has anybody an answer at my problem ?


Atomino

What works for me..the very amature welder..is to put both pieces
inside a piece of steel "L", clamp securely and then weld. The steel
acts as a dam and doesnt let the melted aluminum flow away instead of
forming a fillet. Only reason I use steel, is I cant find a big enough
piece of copper. Shrug It does require a piece of L steel with a
sharp inside corner, but I simply ran a chunk though the milling
machine and made sharp inside corners. I welded a couple bars to the
pointed side fo the L so when its sitting on the bench, the steel is
in a V shape with the open end, up. Made life a hell of a lot easier
for me. But then..Im not a welder.


Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner


"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 19:11:38 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:43:31 -0500, "Robert Swinney"
wrote:

Tsk,tsk,tsk, Gunner! Real men only use oxy-acet for aluminum, don't you
know?

Bob Swinney

Thats what Ive heard from those folks who dont own a 300 amp square
wave welder.

I have a 300-amp TIG, still prefer O/A for thin aluminum. So do the
guys that build aluminum racecars, like Kent White and Ron Fournier.

TIG is definitely easier to do, but O/A isn't that hard after a bit of
practice.

Thanks to everyone,
I will try to clamp a block of stainless steel
inside the corner.
Do you think it's same than copper?
In this way the light between the sheets is covered from the block.
What the maximum size acceptable of the light ?
With thickness of mm.1.5 what diameter is better for electrode, 1 mm.
or 1.6 ?
Pure tungsten(green electrode) is ok ?

On 22 Aug 2005 13:41:42 -0700, "Atomino" wrote:

Thanks to everyone,
I will try to clamp a block of stainless steel
inside the corner.
Do you think it's same than copper?
In this way the light between the sheets is covered from the block.
What the maximum size acceptable of the light ?
With thickness of mm.1.5 what diameter is better for electrode, 1 mm.
or 1.6 ?
Pure tungsten(green electrode) is ok ?

Stainless will be fine -- maybe even better than copper because
it won't chill the work as much.

The best fit is one with no gap. Maximum acceptable size just depends
on how good you are with TIG and how much grinding you're willing to
do.

Pure tungsten will work, but you'll have much better luck with a
zirconiated tungsten on thin aluminum. Try both sizes of electrode,
see which works best for you with your machine. I'd use 1.6 mm,
YMMV.

You *are* using AC, right?

Hi Don,

The machine is Lincoln Invertec V205-T AC/DC
I am using AC with these settings :


- high frequency tig starting
- amperage between 30 and 45 amp
- square waveform
- AC welding frequency 130Hz
- AC balance 50%
- Argon gas at 10 l/min

Do you think are important other parameters like :

- preflow and postflow
- up-slope and down-slope time
- starting and finish current
- pulse frequency

I have left all these parameters to default value

On 22 Aug 2005 23:06:44 -0700, "Atomino" wrote:

Hi Don,

The machine is Lincoln Invertec V205-T AC/DC
I am using AC with these settings :


- high frequency tig starting
- amperage between 30 and 45 amp
- square waveform
- AC welding frequency 130Hz
- AC balance 50%
- Argon gas at 10 l/min

Do you think are important other parameters like :

- preflow and postflow
- up-slope and down-slope time
- starting and finish current
- pulse frequency

I have left all these parameters to default value

Good summary of your situation! Unfortunately, I can't answer your
questions but others may be of more help. My welder doesn't have
most of those features; it's an old Miller Dialarc HF. That
said, I have no doubt at all that I could make the joint you describe
with it.

I did find that zirconiated tungstens made a big difference for me on
thin aluminum at the current levels you describe. I'm not a pro
weldor, just an amateur like you. We need all the help we can get.

I'd suggest making a backing bar, either Gunner's version or mine,
made of stainless or mild steel or copper or whatever, and then keep
practicing with "training bits" until you get the result you seek.
With backing and filler rod, you can bridge about any gap with good
weld -- though you'll have some cleanup to do with the grinder.

One more thought: do you know what alloy of aluminum you're working
with? Some alloys are difficult or impossible to weld well with
TIG. 60xx and 3003 weld very nicely.

"Atomino" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Don,

The machine is Lincoln Invertec V205-T AC/DC
I am using AC with these settings :


- high frequency tig starting
- amperage between 30 and 45 amp
- square waveform
- AC welding frequency 130Hz
- AC balance 50%
- Argon gas at 10 l/min

Do you think are important other parameters like :

- preflow and postflow
- up-slope and down-slope time
- starting and finish current
- pulse frequency

I have left all these parameters to default value


Shouldn't one be using high freq. full time (not just for starting) with
aluminum?

Harold

In article .com,
"Atomino" wrote:

Hi Don,

The machine is Lincoln Invertec V205-T AC/DC
I am using AC with these settings :


- high frequency tig starting
- amperage between 30 and 45 amp
- square waveform
- AC welding frequency 130Hz
- AC balance 50%
- Argon gas at 10 l/min

Do you think are important other parameters like :

- preflow and postflow
- up-slope and down-slope time
- starting and finish current
- pulse frequency

I have left all these parameters to default value

Here is one of my past posts

Here are some basic settings.

The foot pedal should only be giving you a percentage of the dial
setting.
If the dial on the machine is set for 100 amps, then the foot pedal is
giving you 0-100 amps.

The dial on the machine should be set to about 5-10% more amperage than
the minimum needed for your weld.

Here are some guidelines for minimum amperages.

These numbers are for Steel or Aluminum.
Start with 1 amp for each thousandth of an Inch of thickness (0.001").
So 1/8" steel or aluminum = 0.125" thick = 125 amps.
Simple and easy.

Now 2 complications.
For inside fillet welds, increase amperage by 30%
For outside fillet welds, decrease amperage by 30%

Now take those numbers and adjust them for these other materials

For stainless steel, decrease amperage by 30%.
For copper, increase amperage by 100%.
For bronze, decrease amperage by 50%.

DCEN or AC Lanthanted or Ceriated tungsten
High amperage AC Zirconiated tungsten

Base Metal Tungsten Filler rod Amperage
0.010" - 0.045" 0.040" 0.024" - 0.030" 5 - 20
0.030" - 1/8" 1/16" 0.030" - 0.045" 15 - 90
3/32" - 1/4" 3/32" 1/16" - 3/32" 50 - 200
3/16" - 3/8" 1/8" 3/32" - 1/8" 180 - 275
5/16" - 1/2" 5/32" 1/8" - 3/16" 220 - 350

The tungsten sizes do overlap, and you can fudge a little up or down,
but try not to use a tungsten
or filler rod THICKER than your BASE metal.
Also when dealing with really thin base metal and low amperages on
DCEN, you do want a sharp point since the diameter of the tip of the
point sets the minumum amperage needed to initiate the arc.
For 1/16" material and thicker you want a tiny flat on the tip, because
at these higher amperages a really sharp point can pop off into the
weld metal.

Thoriated tungstens are about the same as Lanthanated, but can take
about 10% less heat.
If using Pure tungstens all tungstens are shifted up 2 rows.

Lanthanated Tungstens run on DCEP for aluminum shift up 2 rows.

Pulser/sequencer settings to start with

Preflow gas 0.2 - 0.5 sec
Initial amperage 5 amps
Initial slope 0.5 - 1.0 sec.

Pulses per Second 1.2 - 2.0
Background Amperage 40%
Peak time 40%

Final slope 2.0 - 4.0 sec.
Final Amperage 3 amps
Postflow gas 10 - 20 sec.

Remember that when using a pulser, you will set your machine slightly
higher, since you are not maintaining a constant arc.

The pulse frequency or 1.2 - 2 pps allows you to add filler on every
pulse.
You can go to a higher pulse frequency and simply add filler every
second or third pulse.

Running in the very high frequencies on the pulse makes for a more
liquid weld, especially on SS.

On Aluminum running a higher AC arc frequency, narrows the arc down,
and simulates a DCEN arc.
It also allows you to use a pointed tungsten on AC.

The pulser should work just as well on AC as it does on DC.

Obviously you have a huge range of settings to play with.

Have fun, do many test welds and take notes on settings that worked
particularly well on certain combinations of material and assembly.

--
"I love deadlines, especially the wooshing sound they make as
they fly by" - Douglas Adams

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 08:41:03 GMT, Ernie Leimkuhler
wrote:

Base Metal Tungsten Filler rod Amperage
0.010" - 0.045" 0.040" 0.024" - 0.030" 5 - 20
0.030" - 1/8" 1/16" 0.030" - 0.045" 15 - 90
3/32" - 1/4" 3/32" 1/16" - 3/32" 50 - 200
3/16" - 3/8" 1/8" 3/32" - 1/8" 180 - 275
5/16" - 1/2" 5/32" 1/8" - 3/16" 220 - 350


Thanks, Ernie! I forgot to mention small filler with thin metal.

Atomino, in addition to the zirconiated tungstens, the other discovery
that made a big difference for me was using 1.2 mm (.045") and even
0.9mm (.035") aluminum MIG wire as filler with TIG.

I did not know that the sharpness of the point determined the minimum
current at which an arc would start. That may be part of why
zirconiated tungstens worked well for me; they tend to hold their
shape better in AC service. I found that if I grind it to a sharp
point, it will start well and then sort of shape itself according to
the current I'm running. If I later want to run lower current, I
resharpen the tungsten before starting.

For many years I thought that I, the Idealarc, or both were incapable
of running well below 50 amps, oh well. WRONG! I just had failed
to get the tungsten and the filler size right.

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 00:15:16 -0700, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


Shouldn't one be using high freq. full time (not just for starting) with
aluminum?

Yes. Good catch, Harold.