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EBay hack
This is "negative feedback" for EBay.
I recently got an email notifying me that I had won an auction on some cookie cutters. WTF, over? I've made no bids on anything on EBay for many months. Shortly thereafter I got an email "invoice" from the seller. I notified both seller and EBay that I had not bid on the item and did not want it. I initially suspected the seller, but upon visit to EBay it did look like I'd bid and the seller has plenty of positive feedback. EBay stonewalled me. My inquiry was first met with all the ways it could be my bad: other members of my household, using a public computer at school, library or internet cafe, yada yada. Yeah, OK, I told them none of the above applied. Their response to that was much of the same canned stuff from the first response. Meanwhile, the seller accepted the notion that I'd been hacked and said forget it, he'd repost, suggested that I cancel my account and open a new one. I posted positive feedback for him on EBay for being an honorable gentleman and A1 EBay citizen. Hokay, that matter parked with honor and civility among gentlemen, back to EBay. They'd told me twice to vet my household and change my password. I told them that my household is provably secure, skipping details since they demonstrably don't read or believe my responses. There are only the two of us. Mary has held credentials and clearances the pencilneck dweebs at Ebay never heard of. Her trustworthyness is a matter of federal record after thorough vetting by the FBI and Lord knows what other agency checks. Ditto me. Cancelling the account would too easily let EBay off the hook they're trying so hard to avoid with fancy dancing. In my last response, I told them that I'd changed my password to one produced by one of the several encryption algorithms generally recognized as robust, nevermind which one. Mean time to crack by hack at 100 tries per second would be many millions of years -- nevermind how many millions as a clue to sequence length other than it is ten or less. Any random password of given length would meet this test; it was just easiest to generate it using an encryption algorithm since I had one handy. Random is random, however done. I can blow smoke too. I mentioned that if my identity is hacked again it would be clear evidence that an insider at EBay is responsible. I cc'd the MN Attorney General's office on that post. I've received no smoke-o-grams from EBay in response to my last, not even a roger. Go figure.... BTW, PayPal is a subsidiary of EBay. PayPal demands personal financial info they shouldn't need to do what they purport to do. Pick yer pony, take yer ride. |
Maybe your computer is backdoored. Passwords are only part of a good security scheme.
Don Foreman wrote: This is "negative feedback" for EBay. I recently got an email notifying me that I had won an auction on some cookie cutters. WTF, over? I've made no bids on anything on EBay for many months. Shortly thereafter I got an email "invoice" from the seller. I notified both seller and EBay that I had not bid on the item and did not want it. I initially suspected the seller, but upon visit to EBay it did look like I'd bid and the seller has plenty of positive feedback. EBay stonewalled me. My inquiry was first met with all the ways it could be my bad: other members of my household, using a public computer at school, library or internet cafe, yada yada. Yeah, OK, I told them none of the above applied. Their response to that was much of the same canned stuff from the first response. Meanwhile, the seller accepted the notion that I'd been hacked and said forget it, he'd repost, suggested that I cancel my account and open a new one. I posted positive feedback for him on EBay for being an honorable gentleman and A1 EBay citizen. Hokay, that matter parked with honor and civility among gentlemen, back to EBay. They'd told me twice to vet my household and change my password. I told them that my household is provably secure, skipping details since they demonstrably don't read or believe my responses. There are only the two of us. Mary has held credentials and clearances the pencilneck dweebs at Ebay never heard of. Her trustworthyness is a matter of federal record after thorough vetting by the FBI and Lord knows what other agency checks. Ditto me. Cancelling the account would too easily let EBay off the hook they're trying so hard to avoid with fancy dancing. In my last response, I told them that I'd changed my password to one produced by one of the several encryption algorithms generally recognized as robust, nevermind which one. Mean time to crack by hack at 100 tries per second would be many millions of years -- nevermind how many millions as a clue to sequence length other than it is ten or less. Any random password of given length would meet this test; it was just easiest to generate it using an encryption algorithm since I had one handy. Random is random, however done. I can blow smoke too. I mentioned that if my identity is hacked again it would be clear evidence that an insider at EBay is responsible. I cc'd the MN Attorney General's office on that post. I've received no smoke-o-grams from EBay in response to my last, not even a roger. Go figure.... BTW, PayPal is a subsidiary of EBay. PayPal demands personal financial info they shouldn't need to do what they purport to do. Pick yer pony, take yer ride. |
Keywords:
In article , Don Foreman wrote: This is "negative feedback" for EBay. I recently got an email notifying me that I had won an auction on some cookie cutters. WTF, over? I've made no bids on anything on EBay for many months. Shortly thereafter I got an email "invoice" from the seller. I notified both seller and EBay that I had not bid on the item and did not want it. I initially suspected the seller, but upon visit to EBay it did look like I'd bid and the seller has plenty of positive feedback. EBay stonewalled me. My inquiry was first met with all the ways it could be my bad: other members of my household, using a public computer at school, library or internet cafe, yada yada. Yeah, OK, I told them none of the above applied. Their response to that was much of the same canned stuff from the first response. snip I use Firefox for my browser, and a couple days ago, I got a little pop up window that a web site I had stumbled across had downloaded a Javascript virus that was scanning my system for passwords. I don't know if it was successful, but I went out & changed the few important passwords I had saved. Several virus scans later, there is no sign of it, so I don't know if it ran successfully and erased itself, or was blocked by my software. The pop-up window didn't have another program name associated with it, so I assume it was Firefox & not my virus software or my firewall that spotted it. For all I know, it was looking for IE & Outlook files & got nowhere. I don't know if this could be what happended to you, but I thought I would mention it. The 'Net is getting to be an increasingly nasty place to wander around. In the future, I'm no longer going to allow my browser to store any critical passwords. I already make it a policy not to let any merchant save my credit card info. Doug White |
Don Foreman wrote:
This is "negative feedback" for EBay. Speaking of Ebay, apparently a scam on sellers is happening (aps if this is old news). Someone bids way over the price wanted and sends a cheque/check for it. They want you to use a certain shipper to ship the goods to them ASAP. Apparently includes emails & phone calls from both (purchaser and shipping agent) wanting you to get your act together. Yep, the cheque/check is rubber. |
Thanks, Don! My ebay suspicions reconfirmed.
Bob Swinney "Don Foreman" wrote in message ... This is "negative feedback" for EBay. I recently got an email notifying me that I had won an auction on some cookie cutters. WTF, over? I've made no bids on anything on EBay for many months. Shortly thereafter I got an email "invoice" from the seller. I notified both seller and EBay that I had not bid on the item and did not want it. I initially suspected the seller, but upon visit to EBay it did look like I'd bid and the seller has plenty of positive feedback. EBay stonewalled me. My inquiry was first met with all the ways it could be my bad: other members of my household, using a public computer at school, library or internet cafe, yada yada. Yeah, OK, I told them none of the above applied. Their response to that was much of the same canned stuff from the first response. Meanwhile, the seller accepted the notion that I'd been hacked and said forget it, he'd repost, suggested that I cancel my account and open a new one. I posted positive feedback for him on EBay for being an honorable gentleman and A1 EBay citizen. Hokay, that matter parked with honor and civility among gentlemen, back to EBay. They'd told me twice to vet my household and change my password. I told them that my household is provably secure, skipping details since they demonstrably don't read or believe my responses. There are only the two of us. Mary has held credentials and clearances the pencilneck dweebs at Ebay never heard of. Her trustworthyness is a matter of federal record after thorough vetting by the FBI and Lord knows what other agency checks. Ditto me. Cancelling the account would too easily let EBay off the hook they're trying so hard to avoid with fancy dancing. In my last response, I told them that I'd changed my password to one produced by one of the several encryption algorithms generally recognized as robust, nevermind which one. Mean time to crack by hack at 100 tries per second would be many millions of years -- nevermind how many millions as a clue to sequence length other than it is ten or less. Any random password of given length would meet this test; it was just easiest to generate it using an encryption algorithm since I had one handy. Random is random, however done. I can blow smoke too. I mentioned that if my identity is hacked again it would be clear evidence that an insider at EBay is responsible. I cc'd the MN Attorney General's office on that post. I've received no smoke-o-grams from EBay in response to my last, not even a roger. Go figure.... BTW, PayPal is a subsidiary of EBay. PayPal demands personal financial info they shouldn't need to do what they purport to do. Pick yer pony, take yer ride. |
Terry Collins wrote:
Don Foreman wrote: This is "negative feedback" for EBay. Speaking of Ebay, apparently a scam on sellers is happening (aps if this is old news). Someone bids way over the price wanted and sends a cheque/check for it. They want you to use a certain shipper to ship the goods to them ASAP. Apparently includes emails & phone calls from both (purchaser and shipping agent) wanting you to get your act together. Yep, the cheque/check is rubber. See the link in the security tips for "Busted up Cowgirl" (Second security tip). Has to be the funniest site ever for the "419" or the "Nigerian Scam" http://pmccl.com/security/security.html Hope you enjoy it as much as I did. -- Will R. Jewel Boxes and Wood Art http://woodwork.pmccl.com |
You have to watch your butt on eBay transactions - I recently bid on a hot
water pressure washer, and didn't meet the reserve (which was over $2000). Then I got an email saying that the seller decided to sell it to me at my highest bid. I sent them my phone number so we could discuss picking it up. They kept emailing me back wanting a western union money order payment. I told them I'd bring the funds with me when I picked it up as it was within driving distance. They still wanted the advance payment. I finally realized it was a total scam - these weren't the sellers of the pressure washer - just some scammers looking for unsold eBay items and contacting bidders. I never would have sent the cash, but I'm ****ed at myself for supplying my phone number. John "Don Foreman" wrote in message ... This is "negative feedback" for EBay. I recently got an email notifying me that I had won an auction on some cookie cutters. WTF, over? I've made no bids on anything on EBay for many months. Shortly thereafter I got an email "invoice" from the seller. I notified both seller and EBay that I had not bid on the item and did not want it. I initially suspected the seller, but upon visit to EBay it did look like I'd bid and the seller has plenty of positive feedback. EBay stonewalled me. My inquiry was first met with all the ways it could be my bad: other members of my household, using a public computer at school, library or internet cafe, yada yada. Yeah, OK, I told them none of the above applied. Their response to that was much of the same canned stuff from the first response. Meanwhile, the seller accepted the notion that I'd been hacked and said forget it, he'd repost, suggested that I cancel my account and open a new one. I posted positive feedback for him on EBay for being an honorable gentleman and A1 EBay citizen. Hokay, that matter parked with honor and civility among gentlemen, back to EBay. They'd told me twice to vet my household and change my password. I told them that my household is provably secure, skipping details since they demonstrably don't read or believe my responses. There are only the two of us. Mary has held credentials and clearances the pencilneck dweebs at Ebay never heard of. Her trustworthyness is a matter of federal record after thorough vetting by the FBI and Lord knows what other agency checks. Ditto me. Cancelling the account would too easily let EBay off the hook they're trying so hard to avoid with fancy dancing. In my last response, I told them that I'd changed my password to one produced by one of the several encryption algorithms generally recognized as robust, nevermind which one. Mean time to crack by hack at 100 tries per second would be many millions of years -- nevermind how many millions as a clue to sequence length other than it is ten or less. Any random password of given length would meet this test; it was just easiest to generate it using an encryption algorithm since I had one handy. Random is random, however done. I can blow smoke too. I mentioned that if my identity is hacked again it would be clear evidence that an insider at EBay is responsible. I cc'd the MN Attorney General's office on that post. I've received no smoke-o-grams from EBay in response to my last, not even a roger. Go figure.... BTW, PayPal is a subsidiary of EBay. PayPal demands personal financial info they shouldn't need to do what they purport to do. Pick yer pony, take yer ride. |
Terry Collins wrote:
Don Foreman wrote: This is "negative feedback" for EBay. Speaking of Ebay, apparently a scam on sellers is happening (aps if this is old news). Someone bids way over the price wanted and sends a cheque/check for it. They want you to use a certain shipper to ship the goods to them ASAP. Apparently includes emails & phone calls from both (purchaser and shipping agent) wanting you to get your act together. Yep, the cheque/check is rubber. And I might note that you don't always get "total protection" by delaying delivery of the goods for ten days or so after you've deposited the check. If it's a fraudulent check written against a real account with adequate funds in it, it can take a month or more before the checking account holder realizes that their account has been debited for a check they never wrote or signed and starts complaining to their bank about it. When that check eventually bounces its way back to your bank they'll probably debit your account for it and leave you having to fight them over it. In most states the laws basically come down to "Bank wins, you lose". I do use PayPal for eBay purchases, but I opened up a separate savings account in a small local bank I drive by every day, one in which we have no other accounts. I can easily zip by the drive up window and plop some funds into it when I want to pay for something through PayPal, but there's never more than a couple of hundred bucks in it, limiting my exposure if my PayPal account is hacked. I picked a "different" bank 'cause I heard that some banks will try and grab funds from any of several accounts you may have with them under the same tax ID number if any one of those accounts gets in trouble. If it's any consolation Don, I had my identity swiped about four years ago by some young swine in New York who went around opening up "instant" charge accounts in several New York City department stores during the Xmas holiday season. That's the time of year when stores have folks at desks at their entrances trying to get you to open an account with them so they can get your business before some other store does. Since my identity and social security number had to be given to G-d knows how many banks and brokerage firms over the past few years, it's no big suprise that someone in one of their back rooms had ample opportunity to sell that data for pennies a pound to those grisly guys who do that wicked work. It wasn't 'till April of the following year that I got a call from Macy's credit department asking me why I hadn't paid my bill for a couple of grand for three months. The perp had used our real (Boston) address as his "previous address" and gave Macy's the address of a bagel shop in Brooklyn as his current one. That "previous address" is how Macy's eventually tracked me down. I told Macy's our account with them was current, as it had been for over 25 years, and I feared they'd been scammed They were about as helpful to me about it as eBay was to Don. I told them I couldn't do anything about the problem until they sent me copies of the original credit application and also the charge slips for the jewelry purchased from them the day after the account was opened. Why they were silly enough to do that I don't know, but when they arrived, I had a good laugh. On the credit application the perp had clearly misspelled my last name and also the name of the street we live on and then corrected those errors by writing over them. He also listed his age as about 45 years younger than mine, to match his appearance. (Don't I wish that was true.G) To make a short story longer and more boring, I pulled fresh credit reports from the three main bureaus and spotted several more chain store accounts we knew nothing about; all reported as being in arrears. I got most everything calmed down with just a few well written letters, save for Macy's, whose credit people must have all been injected with some serum which turns them into total idiots. I finally got them to give up only after they had me get certified copies of our utility bills for the previous two years to "prove" we lived in Boston, not Brooklyn. All in all, I spent more time getting Macy's off my back than the other stores (and New York Bell too, the perps had also gotten a phone in my name at a Brooklyn address and run up one hell of a long distance bill before they bailed out of the place.) The story had a funny ending though. SWMBO was reading some ladies' magazine and came across an article on identity fraud. She said, "Come read this!" There was a bit in it about a woman in New York who got so ****ed at Macy's for letting someone open an account in her name that she sued them for the time and trouble it caused her. I couldn't resist that temptation, so I sent Macy's credit department a bill for $500 for four hours of my preemptive time spent straightening out something that never should have happened if they'd taken a modicum of caution; listing as what they'd missed: 1. I'm the only person named Jeff Wisnia in the USA and already HAD an account with Macy's which had been active for over 25 years, (Thanks mainly to SWMBO's frequent retail therapy sessions.) 2, The perp couldn't even spell my name correctly when he filled out his credit application, and then corrected the mistake by writing over it. 3. My DOB is known to the credit bureaus, the perp's listed DOB was off by more than 40 years. Not unexpectedly, they didn't bother to respond to that letter or pay my bill, so I dropped a small claims suit in against their Massachusetts' regional office. That got almost immediate results in the form of a phone call from their local counsel. In less than three minutes we'd become friends, had a laugh over it, and settled the matter for a credit of $250 to our "real" Macy's account, which was placed there two days later. Ha! Jeff -- Jeffry Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE) "As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public schools" |
Will wrote:
See the link in the security tips for "Busted up Cowgirl" (Second security tip). Has to be the funniest site ever for the "419" or the "Nigerian Scam" http://pmccl.com/security/security.html Hope you enjoy it as much as I did. I did! Thanks for the laugh :) -- - - Rex Burkheimer WM Automotive Fort Worth TX |
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:51:28 +0000 (UTC), Crow Leader wrote:
Maybe your computer is backdoored. Passwords are only part of a good security scheme. Or, as good as avoiding social engineering/phishing schemes that _look like_ they come from one place but don't. Many people use the same password for everything. Don doesn't seem like that sort, but it's not uncommon. A spyware scan is definately in order. Keyloggers were created for just this purpose, and they're quite common on Windows machines. adaware from www.lavasoft.de is probably the best spyware scanner to start with. AVG antivirus from www.grisoft.com is free and excellent. |
On 15 Mar 2005 15:19:27 GMT, Ignoramus24806 wrote:
I routinely ship items sold on ebay without even depositing checks first... The thing is, you're expecting others to be as honorable as you are. They're not all worthy of that trust. |
Ignoramus24806 wrote:
I routinely ship items sold on ebay without even depositing checks first... I do the same, hasn't been a problem. My theory is that people who buy machine tools and parts are probably not the class of citizen who screws strangers. So far that's proven sound. -- - - Rex Burkheimer WM Automotive Fort Worth TX |
Dave Hinz wrote:
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:51:28 +0000 (UTC), Crow Leader wrote: Maybe your computer is backdoored. Passwords are only part of a good security scheme. Or, as good as avoiding social engineering/phishing schemes that _look like_ they come from one place but don't. Many people use the same password for everything. Don doesn't seem like that sort, but it's not uncommon. A spyware scan is definately in order. Keyloggers were created for just this purpose, and they're quite common on Windows machines. adaware from www.lavasoft.de is probably the best spyware scanner to start with. AVG antivirus from www.grisoft.com is free and excellent. I use Adaware and Spybot. ONe will catch a couple that the other misses. Be sure to update the data file regularly. -- - - Rex Burkheimer WM Automotive Fort Worth TX |
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:51:28 +0000 (UTC), Crow Leader
wrote: Maybe your computer is backdoored. Passwords are only part of a good security scheme. Never say never, but it's highly unlikely. I've only had this puter for two weeks, and I've never made a bid on Ebay with it. I did regular spyware sweeps on the previous computer. |
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:10:39 -0600, Rex B wrote:
I use Adaware and Spybot. ONe will catch a couple that the other misses. Be sure to update the data file regularly. Me too. |
Don Foreman wrote:
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:51:28 +0000 (UTC), Crow Leader wrote: Maybe your computer is backdoored. Passwords are only part of a good security scheme. Never say never, but it's highly unlikely. I've only had this puter for two weeks, and I've never made a bid on Ebay with it. I did regular spyware sweeps on the previous computer. Where's your old computer? If you sold it, did you completly wipe the old harddrive in it? |
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:30:20 -0600, Don Foreman wrote:
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:51:28 +0000 (UTC), Crow Leader wrote: Maybe your computer is backdoored. Passwords are only part of a good security scheme. Never say never, but it's highly unlikely. I've only had this puter for two weeks, and I've never made a bid on Ebay with it. I did regular spyware sweeps on the previous computer. Read this: http://www.usatoday.com/money/indust...honeypot_x.htm Also, this: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20041130-4426.html Basically, if you're at XP Service pack 1, your unhacked life expectancy when connected to the internet is measured in minutes. Four minutes, in this case. |
On 15 Mar 2005 17:32:06 GMT, Ignoramus24806 wrote:
On 15 Mar 2005 16:57:43 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote: On 15 Mar 2005 15:19:27 GMT, Ignoramus24806 wrote: I routinely ship items sold on ebay without even depositing checks first... The thing is, you're expecting others to be as honorable as you are. They're not all worthy of that trust. My logic is this. First, in my auctions, I say (lie) that items paid for with checks, will ship only after the check clears. This is untrue. I have no time to deposit checks, check if they cleared etc. Sometimes I deposit checks, but most of the time, with small enough checks, I do not. Right now I have a $200 check that I need to deposit after shipping the item. Amusingly, they are the transistors from the UPS that you could get for free if you took it:) I was going to ask how that went. I'm very glad that someone got use (and cash) out of it. Just too big for my situation. Second, I deal with items that are unlikely to attract interest of scammers. Electronic test equipment, industrial stuff, parts etc. Probably a good point. As someone else said, the kind of person bidding on machine tools probably won't screw you. Kind of like accepting a check from a total stranger, at a gun show. You just don't get screwed by that sort of person. Third, even though it is possible that one day I will encounter a scammer, I think that the chance is low enough that it makes saving time worthwhile. Seems reasonable. If you're just selling the sort of stuff I see you mention here, you're not as vulnerable as if you were selling, say, beanie babies. So far, not a single check that I received, bounced. Last bouncy check I was given was when I was 14 and had a paper route. I learned the "Sorry, you need to pay in advance" game pretty early. |
Ignoramus24806 wrote:
On 15 Mar 2005 16:57:43 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote: Right now I have a $200 check that I need to deposit after shipping the item. Amusingly, they are the transistors from the UPS that you could get for free if you took it:) You got $200 for some transistors from a UPS?? I'd love to know what the deal is there. What was the item number? -- - - Rex Burkheimer WM Automotive Fort Worth TX |
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On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:43:31 -0600, Rex B wrote:
Ignoramus24806 wrote: On 15 Mar 2005 16:57:43 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote: Right now I have a $200 check that I need to deposit after shipping the item. Amusingly, they are the transistors from the UPS that you could get for free if you took it:) You got $200 for some transistors from a UPS?? I'd love to know what the deal is there. What was the item number? It was a big fricking UPS. Had the tech manual here but I think it's been recycled now. Half-refrigerator sized (not the problem) and very loud (was the problem). That and, at the time, the free space in my shop was zero. Now it's just "close to zero". |
On 15 Mar 2005 18:09:09 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:30:20 -0600, Don Foreman wrote: On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:51:28 +0000 (UTC), Crow Leader wrote: Maybe your computer is backdoored. Passwords are only part of a good security scheme. Never say never, but it's highly unlikely. I've only had this puter for two weeks, and I've never made a bid on Ebay with it. I did regular spyware sweeps on the previous computer. Read this: http://www.usatoday.com/money/indust...honeypot_x.htm Also, this: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20041130-4426.html Basically, if you're at XP Service pack 1, your unhacked life expectancy when connected to the internet is measured in minutes. Four minutes, in this case. I have firewalls and I keep XP up to date. I don't sell old puters. It's more trouble to wipe them and reload Windows than it's worth. It's a laptop, so I'll keep it in case I ever need the mobility. |
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:54:03 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote: In article , says... On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:51:28 +0000 (UTC), Crow Leader wrote: Maybe your computer is backdoored. Passwords are only part of a good security scheme. Never say never, but it's highly unlikely. I've only had this puter for two weeks, and I've never made a bid on Ebay with it. I did regular spyware sweeps on the previous computer. Don, are you aware that this auction was advertised on this group? The posting was titled "A Fine St. Patty's Day Metal Item", posted by SteveB on 3/01. I remember thinking it was an odd thing to flog here, so I followed the link, and thought it even more odd when I saw your bid. It struck me as very strange that someone who enjoys making gold plated versions of common items would choose to buy a couple cookie cutters. The fact that, based on your feedback, you don't do much on ebay made the whole thing seem stranger still. My first reaction was likely to give you a ribbing. I should have followed through. Yeah, that migh have been fun. Why would I buy stainless cookiecutters for $9.99 when I could spend 3X that on rawstock! G |
I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Dave Hinz
wrote back on 15 Mar 2005 18:11:50 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking : Second, I deal with items that are unlikely to attract interest of scammers. Electronic test equipment, industrial stuff, parts etc. Probably a good point. As someone else said, the kind of person bidding on machine tools probably won't screw you. Kind of like accepting a check from a total stranger, at a gun show. You just don't get screwed by that sort of person. This might have something to do with them knowing you have guns, and now their address. :-) "Such a deal, I wouldn't give my own brother!" (To self- "'cause he knows where I live.") From my days in the Casbah. -- pyotr filipivich. as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with." |
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message ... BIG SNIP Not unexpectedly, they didn't bother to respond to that letter or pay my bill, so I dropped a small claims suit in against their Massachusetts' regional office. That got almost immediate results in the form of a phone call from their local counsel. In less than three minutes we'd become friends, had a laugh over it, and settled the matter for a credit of $250 to our "real" Macy's account, which was placed there two days later. Ha! Jeff -- Jeffry Wisnia Good for you Jeff! Glad to hear you got some satisfaction out of such an ordeal. That happens all to infrequently. The sad state of affairs in regards to credit and identity theft means that we all pay the price in the form of higher interest to make up for such fraud. Lane |
"Robert Swinney" wrote in message ... Thanks, Don! My ebay suspicions reconfirmed. This is pure sillyness... Do you not drive because of the occasional accident on the roads. Of course not! Do you not eat at restaurants because of the occasional food poisoning? Of course not! I've worked with eBay and Paypal both for years without any problems what-so-ever. And there are thousands more that could say the same thing. Can you spell paranoid? Lane |
"Gene Kearns" wrote in message I can spell..... been there, done that..... PayPal, as far as I am concerned, is more liability than is worthwhile. Certainly, eBay purchases carry some manageable risk, and I, myself, have only been burned once by a crooked seller. PayPal, on the other hand, carries much more liability and is much less manageable than eBay..... It is a bit of a lottery, just because you number hasn't come up doesn't mean that it won't..... Truly..... caveat emptor...... -- Gene, Of course someone could say the same thing about automobile accidents, or just about any other "bad thing" that someone else has endured. I suppose you wouldn't have flown anywhere just after 9/11 too. I don't understand how people can live in todays world with this kind of paranoia. Isn't life hard enough without thinking everyone is out to get you? Plus, clearly the evidence proves otherwise. My inlaws will not drive on I5, even after my wife pointed out to them a newspaper article saying that side roads are like 5-10 times more dangerous than freeways. I clicked on your link in your other post and got a "The page cannot be displayed" error message. So I'm unable to read about your problems with Paypal. I know that if I've been screwed by PayPal I'd have a different outlook. But just because it happened to one doesn't mean it happens to everyone. This is my opinion, worth exactly what you paid for it. Thanks for reading. Lane |
'S ok. I have an on-line-purchase-only MC with a $1000.00 limit. Usually
pretty much charged out. My bank account listed with PayPal is pretty much dormant; throw a few bucks in it now and then. They can hack all they want, try to charge my accounts- good luck. Only a sucker would provide PayPal an account# with any real money in it. JR Dweller in the cellar Don Foreman wrote: This is "negative feedback" for EBay. I recently got an email notifying me that I had won an auction on some cookie cutters. WTF, over? I've made no bids on anything on EBay for many months. Shortly thereafter I got an email "invoice" from the seller. I notified both seller and EBay that I had not bid on the item and did not want it. I initially suspected the seller, but upon visit to EBay it did look like I'd bid and the seller has plenty of positive feedback. EBay stonewalled me. My inquiry was first met with all the ways it could be my bad: other members of my household, using a public computer at school, library or internet cafe, yada yada. Yeah, OK, I told them none of the above applied. Their response to that was much of the same canned stuff from the first response. Meanwhile, the seller accepted the notion that I'd been hacked and said forget it, he'd repost, suggested that I cancel my account and open a new one. I posted positive feedback for him on EBay for being an honorable gentleman and A1 EBay citizen. Hokay, that matter parked with honor and civility among gentlemen, back to EBay. They'd told me twice to vet my household and change my password. I told them that my household is provably secure, skipping details since they demonstrably don't read or believe my responses. There are only the two of us. Mary has held credentials and clearances the pencilneck dweebs at Ebay never heard of. Her trustworthyness is a matter of federal record after thorough vetting by the FBI and Lord knows what other agency checks. Ditto me. Cancelling the account would too easily let EBay off the hook they're trying so hard to avoid with fancy dancing. In my last response, I told them that I'd changed my password to one produced by one of the several encryption algorithms generally recognized as robust, nevermind which one. Mean time to crack by hack at 100 tries per second would be many millions of years -- nevermind how many millions as a clue to sequence length other than it is ten or less. Any random password of given length would meet this test; it was just easiest to generate it using an encryption algorithm since I had one handy. Random is random, however done. I can blow smoke too. I mentioned that if my identity is hacked again it would be clear evidence that an insider at EBay is responsible. I cc'd the MN Attorney General's office on that post. I've received no smoke-o-grams from EBay in response to my last, not even a roger. Go figure.... BTW, PayPal is a subsidiary of EBay. PayPal demands personal financial info they shouldn't need to do what they purport to do. Pick yer pony, take yer ride. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses -------------------------------------------------------------- Dependence is Vulnerability: -------------------------------------------------------------- "Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal" "I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.." |
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:07:59 -0800, "Lane" lane (no spam) at
copperaccents dot com wrote: "Robert Swinney" wrote in message ... Thanks, Don! My ebay suspicions reconfirmed. This is pure sillyness... Do you not drive because of the occasional accident on the roads. Of course not! Do you not eat at restaurants because of the occasional food poisoning? Of course not! I've worked with eBay and Paypal both for years without any problems what-so-ever. And there are thousands more that could say the same thing. Can you spell paranoid? "Due care" requires fewer letters and is more to the point. By golly there were two trojans on the old machine! I thought I had it set to scan periodically but apparently not. --- After Ned Simmon's comment, it occurs to me that this event looks more like a prank than anyone's intent to steal or defraud. Nobody but the seller would gain by bidding for my account and I'm satisfied that the seller is legit. Further evidence is that trivial $ were involved. I know for sure that EBay logs the IP and ISP source of incoming, so I'm seeing if I can get them (perhaps with a little agency nudge for motivation) ) to check their logs. I don't seek revenge, merely exposure. |
In article , no spam says...
Do you not drive because of the occasional accident on the roads. Of course not! Do you not eat at restaurants because of the occasional food poisoning? It's a lot faster to drive rather than walk, and the roads are regulated and policed by the state. Public health deparments are in place to inspect resturants, to see that folks *don'* get salmonella. What kind of regulation and enforcement is in place to see that ebay/paypal deals fairly with the public? From the comments seen here, the answer is "slim-ta-none." Most sellers take a personal check or cash. Those who don't, don't get my business. Not paranoia. Jim -- ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
I use PayPal for eBay sales and purchases and love its convenience. I
wish it was used by more people. For example, when I'm short of cash it would be convenient to PayPal the woman who cleans our house. Like Jeff, I use a dedicated bank account to fund my PayPal account and keep a small balance in it. The back-up funding is a canceled credit card. Sure, there are horror stories about PayPal. There are also eBay horror stories (Harold?). If an eBay seller has a 99% positive feedback most buyers will proceed without worry. What do you suppose PayPal's feedback would be if there were such a thing? I'd guess better than 99.9% If you would trust a 99% eBay seller with a couple of hundred dollars, why wouldn't you trust the 99.9% PayPal with the same amount? Bob |
Keywords:
In article , Bob Engelhardt wrote: I use PayPal for eBay sales and purchases and love its convenience. I wish it was used by more people. For example, when I'm short of cash it would be convenient to PayPal the woman who cleans our house. Like Jeff, I use a dedicated bank account to fund my PayPal account and keep a small balance in it. The back-up funding is a canceled credit card. Sure, there are horror stories about PayPal. There are also eBay horror stories (Harold?). If an eBay seller has a 99% positive feedback most buyers will proceed without worry. What do you suppose PayPal's feedback would be if there were such a thing? I'd guess better than 99.9% If you would trust a 99% eBay seller with a couple of hundred dollars, why wouldn't you trust the 99.9% PayPal with the same amount? My problem with PayPal is that their "protection" is a joke. If you get stiffed by somebody who skips town and PayPal can't recover your money, you are out of luck. This is why you should NEVER use a bank account to pay for things. The only way I got my money back on a recent deal-gone-bad was through my credit card company. PayPal & Ebay don't bother policing things very well, so there are getting to be more & more scam artists around. I also know for a fact that Ebay makes it very difficult to post negative feedback. I ended up recovering some stolen merchandise (long story), and had my wife do the purchase on her account so the thief wouldn't realize it was me. When she tried to post negative feedback along the lines of "this guy deals in stolen property", it mysteriously never got posted. Twice. Doug White |
In article , Doug White says...
PayPal & Ebay don't bother policing things very well, so there are getting to be more & more scam artists around. This is the real issue. Ebay/paypal is interested in only one thing - making money. If they cleaned up their house a bit more folks would use paypal but for now it's too risky. Jim -- ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
jim rozen wrote:
.... If they cleaned up their house a bit more folks would use paypal but for now it's too risky. But my point was: how are you *risking* anything more with PayPal than you would by sending a money order, check, or cash to an eBay seller?? I consider PayPal to be much more reliable/risk free than your average random eBay seller. Bob |
But my point was: how are you *risking* anything more with PayPal than you would by sending a money order, check, or cash to an eBay seller?? I consider PayPal to be much more reliable/risk free than your average random eBay seller. Bob ditto not to say that ebay shouldn't clean up its act, bu tpaypal is pretty pain free for a buyer, and most sellers do take it. |
On 16 Mar 2005 08:00:12 -0800, the inscrutable jim rozen
spake: In article , Doug White says... PayPal & Ebay don't bother policing things very well, so there are getting to be more & more scam artists around. This is the real issue. Ebay/paypal is interested in only one thing - making money. If they cleaned up their house a bit more folks would use paypal but for now it's too risky. Yeah, according to Ebay yesterday, only 90% of Ebay sellers use it now. ;) I got smart and set up a free bank account specifically for Paypal. - Yea, though I walk through the valley of Minwax, I shall stain no Cherry. http://diversify.com |
In article , Bob Engelhardt says...
jim rozen wrote: ... If they cleaned up their house a bit more folks would use paypal but for now it's too risky. But my point was: how are you *risking* anything more with PayPal than you would by sending a money order, check, or cash to an eBay seller?? Using it requires a second blind account and credit card. Just seems like too much work for the occasional buyer - like me. And there's no way I'd give ebay/paypal account information for my real account. Jim -- ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 01:55:09 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote: I had this happen to me too, not once, twice. |
In article ,
Don Foreman wrote: [ ... ] "Due care" requires fewer letters and is more to the point. By golly there were two trojans on the old machine! I thought I had it set to scan periodically but apparently not. --- After Ned Simmon's comment, it occurs to me that this event looks more like a prank than anyone's intent to steal or defraud. Nobody but the seller would gain by bidding for my account and I'm satisfied that the seller is legit. Further evidence is that trivial $ were involved. I know for sure that EBay logs the IP and ISP source of incoming, so I'm seeing if I can get them (perhaps with a little agency nudge for motivation) ) to check their logs. I don't seek revenge, merely exposure. Note that one of the trojans may have installed backdoors in the computer, and thus someone *could* have used your computer to place the bid, in which case, the IP addresses would point to *you*. Good Luck, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
yourname wrote:
But my point was: how are you *risking* anything more with PayPal than you would by sending a money order, check, or cash to an eBay seller?? I consider PayPal to be much more reliable/risk free than your average random eBay seller. If you open a PayPal account, they link it to your checking account. If someone penetrates your account, they can empty out your checking account! I know people this has happened to. It is scary. Jon |
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