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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Thanks in advance for any advice on my questions below.
I'm in the process of wiring up a new (to me) lathe, which is currently set up with a 7.5hp 3 phase 440v motor. It also has a coolant system, if that makes any difference. I have a new 220v circuit in place, and a 10hp phase converter. I'm under the impression that the motor works at 220v as well as 440v with just a wiring change, due to the motor placard on the lathe and from what the seller told me. What i'm unsure about is how the wiring is changed when going from 440v to 220v. I opened up the electrical panel and was at first somewhat worried about all the 'stuff'' in there. Picture at www.blastzone.com/newlathe/102_1645.jpg After looking at it for a while I found what I believe needs to be changed to go from 440v to 220v. The transformer, pictured at www.blastzone.com/newlathe/102_1646.jpg On the transformer face are 2 diagrams for how to wire it for 220v and 440v (as seen in the picture above). My question is this. Is re-wiring this transformer the only thing I need to change? What is going to be damaged if there's something else? I'm a little hesitant to power it all up since i'm not 100% sure on what i'm doing here. I did look inside where the motor itself is, but there isnt much to be seen the www.blastzone.com/newlathe/102_1649.jpg Also, the actual wiring point on the outside has some pretty small wires compared to what the 200v circuit and wiring from the phase converter is, which also has me wondering. www.blastzone.com/newlathe/102_1655.jpg I appreciate the help i've gotten here so far, and look forward to what you have to say. Thanks. Greg Deputy Bonney Lake, WA |
#2
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Cant quite read the va rating on the transformer, but more than likely the
transformer is just for all of the control circuitry. This would include any pilot lights, coils for contactors, etc.I doubt that it is inteded for anything else. When you say rewire the transformer, I am assuming that it is on the primary side to convert you rew input voltage to the 220 volt you have at your place. If you can successfully change the control transformer primary to still have the same output it now requires, and rewire the motor to accept 220 volt, you should be in good shape. "Greg Deputy" wrote in message ... Thanks in advance for any advice on my questions below. I'm in the process of wiring up a new (to me) lathe, which is currently set up with a 7.5hp 3 phase 440v motor. It also has a coolant system, if that makes any difference. I have a new 220v circuit in place, and a 10hp phase converter. I'm under the impression that the motor works at 220v as well as 440v with just a wiring change, due to the motor placard on the lathe and from what the seller told me. What i'm unsure about is how the wiring is changed when going from 440v to 220v. I opened up the electrical panel and was at first somewhat worried about all the 'stuff'' in there. Picture at www.blastzone.com/newlathe/102_1645.jpg After looking at it for a while I found what I believe needs to be changed to go from 440v to 220v. The transformer, pictured at www.blastzone.com/newlathe/102_1646.jpg On the transformer face are 2 diagrams for how to wire it for 220v and 440v (as seen in the picture above). My question is this. Is re-wiring this transformer the only thing I need to change? What is going to be damaged if there's something else? I'm a little hesitant to power it all up since i'm not 100% sure on what i'm doing here. I did look inside where the motor itself is, but there isnt much to be seen the www.blastzone.com/newlathe/102_1649.jpg Also, the actual wiring point on the outside has some pretty small wires compared to what the 200v circuit and wiring from the phase converter is, which also has me wondering. www.blastzone.com/newlathe/102_1655.jpg I appreciate the help i've gotten here so far, and look forward to what you have to say. Thanks. Greg Deputy Bonney Lake, WA |
#3
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Yeah, the transformer diagram indicates 110v out the secondary, and has 2
configurations for the primary, 440v or 220v. So how would one normally go about rewiring the motor for 220v? Is it likely i'm going to need direct access to the motor? As installed it is all buried inside the cabinet, so i guess i'll have to pull the thing out. "Grady" wrote in message news:nO8Xd.733$Qz.470@okepread05... Cant quite read the va rating on the transformer, but more than likely the transformer is just for all of the control circuitry. This would include any pilot lights, coils for contactors, etc.I doubt that it is inteded for anything else. When you say rewire the transformer, I am assuming that it is on the primary side to convert you rew input voltage to the 220 volt you have at your place. If you can successfully change the control transformer primary to still have the same output it now requires, and rewire the motor to accept 220 volt, you should be in good shape. "Greg Deputy" wrote in message ... Thanks in advance for any advice on my questions below. I'm in the process of wiring up a new (to me) lathe, which is currently set up with a 7.5hp 3 phase 440v motor. It also has a coolant system, if that makes any difference. I have a new 220v circuit in place, and a 10hp phase converter. I'm under the impression that the motor works at 220v as well as 440v with just a wiring change, due to the motor placard on the lathe and from what the seller told me. What i'm unsure about is how the wiring is changed when going from 440v to 220v. I opened up the electrical panel and was at first somewhat worried about all the 'stuff'' in there. Picture at www.blastzone.com/newlathe/102_1645.jpg After looking at it for a while I found what I believe needs to be changed to go from 440v to 220v. The transformer, pictured at www.blastzone.com/newlathe/102_1646.jpg On the transformer face are 2 diagrams for how to wire it for 220v and 440v (as seen in the picture above). My question is this. Is re-wiring this transformer the only thing I need to change? What is going to be damaged if there's something else? I'm a little hesitant to power it all up since i'm not 100% sure on what i'm doing here. I did look inside where the motor itself is, but there isnt much to be seen the www.blastzone.com/newlathe/102_1649.jpg Also, the actual wiring point on the outside has some pretty small wires compared to what the 200v circuit and wiring from the phase converter is, which also has me wondering. www.blastzone.com/newlathe/102_1655.jpg I appreciate the help i've gotten here so far, and look forward to what you have to say. Thanks. Greg Deputy Bonney Lake, WA |
#4
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![]() "Greg Deputy" wrote in message ... Yeah, the transformer diagram indicates 110v out the secondary, and has 2 configurations for the primary, 440v or 220v. For low voltage operation you place the primary windings in series with one another. So how would one normally go about rewiring the motor for 220v? Is it likely i'm going to need direct access to the motor? As installed it is all buried inside the cabinet, so i guess i'll have to pull the thing out. Yup, you also gotta rewire the taps inside the motor's peckerhead for low voltage operation--the connection diagrams should be on the motor's data-plate. -- SVL |
#5
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![]() "PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message ... "Greg Deputy" wrote in message ... Yeah, the transformer diagram indicates 110v out the secondary, and has 2 configurations for the primary, 440v or 220v. For low voltage operation you place the primary windings in series with one another. Woops -- I meant parallel J So how would one normally go about rewiring the motor for 220v? Is it likely i'm going to need direct access to the motor? As installed it is all buried inside the cabinet, so i guess i'll have to pull the thing out. Yup, you also gotta rewire the taps inside the motor's peckerhead for low voltage operation--the connection diagrams should be on the motor's data-plate. -- SVL |
#6
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![]() "Jerry Martes" wrote in message news:tjaXd.57472$EL5.52213@trnddc05... "PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message ... "Greg Deputy" wrote in message ... Yeah, the transformer diagram indicates 110v out the secondary, and has 2 configurations for the primary, 440v or 220v. For low voltage operation you place the primary windings in series with one another. Woops -- I meant parallel J Yup, that I did.... Thx. -- SVL |
#7
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There should be a wiring diagram on the motor to show which leads to connect
where to change the voltage. Also, where does the coolant pump tie in at? Hopefully it is on the 110 volt side of the transformer. Be sure you have the correct size wire for the full load amp rating of unit at 220 volt. Since you are going from 440 to 220 volts the current draw will double. What is the full load amp rating on motor and what size wire do you have pulled for this circuit? "Greg Deputy" wrote in message ... Yeah, the transformer diagram indicates 110v out the secondary, and has 2 configurations for the primary, 440v or 220v. So how would one normally go about rewiring the motor for 220v? Is it likely i'm going to need direct access to the motor? As installed it is all buried inside the cabinet, so i guess i'll have to pull the thing out. "Grady" wrote in message news:nO8Xd.733$Qz.470@okepread05... Cant quite read the va rating on the transformer, but more than likely the transformer is just for all of the control circuitry. This would include any pilot lights, coils for contactors, etc.I doubt that it is inteded for anything else. When you say rewire the transformer, I am assuming that it is on the primary side to convert you rew input voltage to the 220 volt you have at your place. If you can successfully change the control transformer primary to still have the same output it now requires, and rewire the motor to accept 220 volt, you should be in good shape. "Greg Deputy" wrote in message ... Thanks in advance for any advice on my questions below. I'm in the process of wiring up a new (to me) lathe, which is currently set up with a 7.5hp 3 phase 440v motor. It also has a coolant system, if that makes any difference. I have a new 220v circuit in place, and a 10hp phase converter. I'm under the impression that the motor works at 220v as well as 440v with just a wiring change, due to the motor placard on the lathe and from what the seller told me. What i'm unsure about is how the wiring is changed when going from 440v to 220v. I opened up the electrical panel and was at first somewhat worried about all the 'stuff'' in there. Picture at www.blastzone.com/newlathe/102_1645.jpg After looking at it for a while I found what I believe needs to be changed to go from 440v to 220v. The transformer, pictured at www.blastzone.com/newlathe/102_1646.jpg On the transformer face are 2 diagrams for how to wire it for 220v and 440v (as seen in the picture above). My question is this. Is re-wiring this transformer the only thing I need to change? What is going to be damaged if there's something else? I'm a little hesitant to power it all up since i'm not 100% sure on what i'm doing here. I did look inside where the motor itself is, but there isnt much to be seen the www.blastzone.com/newlathe/102_1649.jpg Also, the actual wiring point on the outside has some pretty small wires compared to what the 200v circuit and wiring from the phase converter is, which also has me wondering. www.blastzone.com/newlathe/102_1655.jpg I appreciate the help i've gotten here so far, and look forward to what you have to say. Thanks. Greg Deputy Bonney Lake, WA |
#8
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Just looked at the motor placard on the outside of the machine again. It
appears its not a 7.5hp, but a 5hp after all. I guess that means I've got overkill for a phase converter (10hp), but better to much than not enough, right? The plate says 8/16 Amps, so I guess 16 amps is the rating. I've got 6 gauge wire run from the box for the circuit, and a 50 amp fuse. "Grady" wrote in message news:zEfXd.755$Qz.587@okepread05... There should be a wiring diagram on the motor to show which leads to connect where to change the voltage. Also, where does the coolant pump tie in at? Hopefully it is on the 110 volt side of the transformer. Be sure you have the correct size wire for the full load amp rating of unit at 220 volt. Since you are going from 440 to 220 volts the current draw will double. What is the full load amp rating on motor and what size wire do you have pulled for this circuit? "Greg Deputy" wrote in message ... Yeah, the transformer diagram indicates 110v out the secondary, and has 2 configurations for the primary, 440v or 220v. So how would one normally go about rewiring the motor for 220v? Is it likely i'm going to need direct access to the motor? As installed it is all buried inside the cabinet, so i guess i'll have to pull the thing out. "Grady" wrote in message news:nO8Xd.733$Qz.470@okepread05... Cant quite read the va rating on the transformer, but more than likely the transformer is just for all of the control circuitry. This would include any pilot lights, coils for contactors, etc.I doubt that it is inteded for anything else. When you say rewire the transformer, I am assuming that it is on the primary side to convert you rew input voltage to the 220 volt you have at your place. If you can successfully change the control transformer primary to still have the same output it now requires, and rewire the motor to accept 220 volt, you should be in good shape. "Greg Deputy" wrote in message ... Thanks in advance for any advice on my questions below. I'm in the process of wiring up a new (to me) lathe, which is currently set up with a 7.5hp 3 phase 440v motor. It also has a coolant system, if that makes any difference. I have a new 220v circuit in place, and a 10hp phase converter. I'm under the impression that the motor works at 220v as well as 440v with just a wiring change, due to the motor placard on the lathe and from what the seller told me. What i'm unsure about is how the wiring is changed when going from 440v to 220v. I opened up the electrical panel and was at first somewhat worried about all the 'stuff'' in there. Picture at www.blastzone.com/newlathe/102_1645.jpg After looking at it for a while I found what I believe needs to be changed to go from 440v to 220v. The transformer, pictured at www.blastzone.com/newlathe/102_1646.jpg On the transformer face are 2 diagrams for how to wire it for 220v and 440v (as seen in the picture above). My question is this. Is re-wiring this transformer the only thing I need to change? What is going to be damaged if there's something else? I'm a little hesitant to power it all up since i'm not 100% sure on what i'm doing here. I did look inside where the motor itself is, but there isnt much to be seen the www.blastzone.com/newlathe/102_1649.jpg Also, the actual wiring point on the outside has some pretty small wires compared to what the 200v circuit and wiring from the phase converter is, which also has me wondering. www.blastzone.com/newlathe/102_1655.jpg I appreciate the help i've gotten here so far, and look forward to what you have to say. Thanks. Greg Deputy Bonney Lake, WA |
#9
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The 6 gauge wire will more than handle the 16 amp load of the motor. 12
guage wire is rated to 20 amp, 10 guage to 30. I dont know about the phase converter stuff, what kind of load it pulls, so I cannot say as to the fuse size. Someone else in the group can probably better serve this need then myself. As a side note, since you are changing the voltage to the motor, if your contactor has some type of thermal overload, you will need to resize it appropriately as it will trip first rattle out of the box. It was set up to run at half the current it will be drawing. See if it has an overload trip unit and what brand it is. "Greg Deputy" wrote in message ... Just looked at the motor placard on the outside of the machine again. It appears its not a 7.5hp, but a 5hp after all. I guess that means I've got overkill for a phase converter (10hp), but better to much than not enough, right? The plate says 8/16 Amps, so I guess 16 amps is the rating. I've got 6 gauge wire run from the box for the circuit, and a 50 amp fuse. "Grady" wrote in message news:zEfXd.755$Qz.587@okepread05... There should be a wiring diagram on the motor to show which leads to connect where to change the voltage. Also, where does the coolant pump tie in at? Hopefully it is on the 110 volt side of the transformer. Be sure you have the correct size wire for the full load amp rating of unit at 220 volt. Since you are going from 440 to 220 volts the current draw will double. What is the full load amp rating on motor and what size wire do you have pulled for this circuit? "Greg Deputy" wrote in message ... Yeah, the transformer diagram indicates 110v out the secondary, and has 2 configurations for the primary, 440v or 220v. So how would one normally go about rewiring the motor for 220v? Is it likely i'm going to need direct access to the motor? As installed it is all buried inside the cabinet, so i guess i'll have to pull the thing out. "Grady" wrote in message news:nO8Xd.733$Qz.470@okepread05... Cant quite read the va rating on the transformer, but more than likely the transformer is just for all of the control circuitry. This would include any pilot lights, coils for contactors, etc.I doubt that it is inteded for anything else. When you say rewire the transformer, I am assuming that it is on the primary side to convert you rew input voltage to the 220 volt you have at your place. If you can successfully change the control transformer primary to still have the same output it now requires, and rewire the motor to accept 220 volt, you should be in good shape. "Greg Deputy" wrote in message ... Thanks in advance for any advice on my questions below. I'm in the process of wiring up a new (to me) lathe, which is currently set up with a 7.5hp 3 phase 440v motor. It also has a coolant system, if that makes any difference. I have a new 220v circuit in place, and a 10hp phase converter. I'm under the impression that the motor works at 220v as well as 440v with just a wiring change, due to the motor placard on the lathe and from what the seller told me. What i'm unsure about is how the wiring is changed when going from 440v to 220v. I opened up the electrical panel and was at first somewhat worried about all the 'stuff'' in there. Picture at www.blastzone.com/newlathe/102_1645.jpg After looking at it for a while I found what I believe needs to be changed to go from 440v to 220v. The transformer, pictured at www.blastzone.com/newlathe/102_1646.jpg On the transformer face are 2 diagrams for how to wire it for 220v and 440v (as seen in the picture above). My question is this. Is re-wiring this transformer the only thing I need to change? What is going to be damaged if there's something else? I'm a little hesitant to power it all up since i'm not 100% sure on what i'm doing here. I did look inside where the motor itself is, but there isnt much to be seen the www.blastzone.com/newlathe/102_1649.jpg Also, the actual wiring point on the outside has some pretty small wires compared to what the 200v circuit and wiring from the phase converter is, which also has me wondering. www.blastzone.com/newlathe/102_1655.jpg I appreciate the help i've gotten here so far, and look forward to what you have to say. Thanks. Greg Deputy Bonney Lake, WA |
#10
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"Greg Deputy" wrote in
: Take note that the current needed will double when you go from 440V to 220V, so use appropriate sized feed wires to the transformer, and you may have to change your fuses also. Does the coolant pump run from this transformer? If yes, no further change is needed relative to the coolant pump after changing the transformer. If no, you will need to rewire the motor for 220V. Does the spindle motor run from this transformer? If yes, again, no change needed after fixing the transformer. If no, you will need to re-wire the spindle motor for 220V. I cannot read the transformer plate. As another poster noted, this may be only a control transformer, and not feed any motors. -- Anthony You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make better idiots. Remove sp to reply via email |
#11
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Judging from the size of the transformer (small) and the fact it outputs
110v, i'm pretty sure it only drives the coolant pump, so i guess its time to pull out the motor and look at how to rewire the thing. Thanks. "Anthony" wrote in message ... "Greg Deputy" wrote in : Take note that the current needed will double when you go from 440V to 220V, so use appropriate sized feed wires to the transformer, and you may have to change your fuses also. Does the coolant pump run from this transformer? If yes, no further change is needed relative to the coolant pump after changing the transformer. If no, you will need to rewire the motor for 220V. Does the spindle motor run from this transformer? If yes, again, no change needed after fixing the transformer. If no, you will need to re-wire the spindle motor for 220V. I cannot read the transformer plate. As another poster noted, this may be only a control transformer, and not feed any motors. -- Anthony You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make better idiots. Remove sp to reply via email |
#12
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There should be a name plate on the motor which shows the two wiring
configurations, for 220 v or 440 v. If in doubt I suggest you get help from someone that knows about these things, say an electrician. Bob Swinney "Greg Deputy" wrote in message ... Judging from the size of the transformer (small) and the fact it outputs 110v, i'm pretty sure it only drives the coolant pump, so i guess its time to pull out the motor and look at how to rewire the thing. Thanks. "Anthony" wrote in message ... "Greg Deputy" wrote in : Take note that the current needed will double when you go from 440V to 220V, so use appropriate sized feed wires to the transformer, and you may have to change your fuses also. Does the coolant pump run from this transformer? If yes, no further change is needed relative to the coolant pump after changing the transformer. If no, you will need to rewire the motor for 220V. Does the spindle motor run from this transformer? If yes, again, no change needed after fixing the transformer. If no, you will need to re-wire the spindle motor for 220V. I cannot read the transformer plate. As another poster noted, this may be only a control transformer, and not feed any motors. -- Anthony You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make better idiots. Remove sp to reply via email |
#13
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![]() "Robert Swinney" wrote in message ... There should be a name plate on the motor which shows the two wiring configurations, for 220 v or 440 v. If in doubt I suggest you get help from someone that knows about these things, say an electrician. He will need to change out the heaters in any mag starters too... -- SVL |
#14
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Greg, you've got a real can of worms here. One thing you may not have
considered yet is to generate sufficient 220 3phase and just convert it to 440 3phase using a (biggish) transformer. Or, you can convert 220 single phase to 440 single phase and then make a 440 phase converter. A guy in our area recently did just that. Big transformers sometimes show up but they often aren't cheap. I have one that might be big enough for you, and might be cheap enough for you, but it's in LA and I won't be running a vehicle down there until spring break which is a few weeks away. I don't have the specs on hand, either. I do have 'em somewhere, though. To email me, either use or go to the link: http://www.tinyisland.com/email.html Grant Erwin Kirkland, Washington |
#15
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I think i've got it covered. I'm going to rewire the transformer per the
diagram, which is for the coolant pump as far as i can tell. For the motor, i'm going to have to pull it out of the cabinet to rewire it. I cant get to its wires the way its tucked up inside the machine. I'll take the opportunity to clean it up and the inside of the cabinet, its pretty oily and nasty in there anyways. I've already got a 220v 10hp phase converter, and the motor is a 220v/440v so i'm going to rewire it and go that route rather than add in a transformer. Thanks for all the help, wish me luck! "Grant Erwin" wrote in message ... Greg, you've got a real can of worms here. One thing you may not have considered yet is to generate sufficient 220 3phase and just convert it to 440 3phase using a (biggish) transformer. Or, you can convert 220 single phase to 440 single phase and then make a 440 phase converter. A guy in our area recently did just that. Big transformers sometimes show up but they often aren't cheap. I have one that might be big enough for you, and might be cheap enough for you, but it's in LA and I won't be running a vehicle down there until spring break which is a few weeks away. I don't have the specs on hand, either. I do have 'em somewhere, though. To email me, either use or go to the link: http://www.tinyisland.com/email.html Grant Erwin Kirkland, Washington |
#16
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On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 08:23:06 -0800, "Greg Deputy"
wrote: I think i've got it covered. I'm going to rewire the transformer per the diagram, which is for the coolant pump as far as i can tell. I seriously doubt that transformer is for the coolant pump. It looks like a standard control transformer to me and is probably just big enough to run the controls. By controls I mean the windings in the motor contactors. I'd definitely check the coolant pump closely. I'm betting it's 3 phase and is either wired for 440 or is straight 440. Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook |
#17
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![]() "Greg Deputy" wrote in message ... | Thanks in advance for any advice on my questions below. | | I'm in the process of wiring up a new (to me) lathe, which is currently set | up with a 7.5hp 3 phase 440v motor. It also has a coolant system, if that | makes any difference. | | I have a new 220v circuit in place, and a 10hp phase converter. I'm under | the impression that the motor works at 220v as well as 440v with just a | wiring change, due to the motor placard on the lathe and from what the | seller told me. | | What i'm unsure about is how the wiring is changed when going from 440v to | 220v. I opened up the electrical panel and was at first somewhat worried | about all the 'stuff'' in there. Picture at SNIP You need to rewire both the control transformer and the motor. The control transformer has been done already, likely, so the motor still has to get rewired. If you can't find a local electrician, hit me up off list and I'll try to put in words the diagrams I have so that you can do it yourself. Perhaps visit your local library and see what they have in the way of industrial electricity and motor controls. Ought to be the typical motor wiring diagrams available if it isn't on the motor directly. I assume that your phase converter is a delta configuration, which is the most common motor arrangement, but delta and wye wire up differently, even more so for different voltages. The control transformer provides power to operate all the controls, lights, relay/contactor/starter coils, and so forth. With the one wire in the way and the lighting just so it's not very readable. The controls don't care what voltage they switch for the motor, and as far as they are concerned it has no bearing. They only see control voltage, which could be 12VAC to 240VAC or even 12VDC to 48VDC or more. You library will also have some useful information. Just from looking at the wiring you have there, there's a pair of motor starters, one being a replacement. I thought at first that they were a reversing setup (does yours have a switch to reverse the motor?) but it might be for a soft start, which allows the lathe to come up to speed without blowing any overloads. The black blob on the right side that got cut off - is that another motor contactor/starter? Where is the overload for it? Usually looks like three flat fuses sorta, and attached to the main contactor/starter. I'm guessing that the rectifier is part of a DC brake. If you apply DC to an AC motor it will come to a firm stop very quickly and not rotate at all. That's one relay/starter, but it doesn't explain why there would be two there. Soft starts take two, but there would be more stuff there, unless I can't see it. Before you turn everything on, you can disconnect the motor wiring itself from the control panel and run the controls through their paces. If you understand basic electricity, and can read a book, you ought to be able to figure out what does what. It helps to create a wiring diagram for what you have to help understand what's going on. The controls have been used and abused over the years, with the normal replacement of original parts no longer available, and this makes it a bit hard to figure out what it all does just from looking at it in a photo. |
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