Electrolytic Rust Removal - Bought a Craftsman 618 parts lathe that's a
prime candidate for rust removal. I went to HD and a supermarket in
search of washing soda, sodium carbonate, but all I got was quizzical
facial expressions from the help. So ....where do you get that stuff?


Rex B
Fort Worth

Look for Calgon in the supermarket. The washing soda will be next to
it. Or you can use the Calgon. Calgon sold in the supermarket is
mostly sodium carbonate. The industrial stuff is different.

You might try Walmart, if the local supermarket does not have it.


Dan

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 11:30:42 -0600, Rex B wrote:

Electrolytic Rust Removal - Bought a Craftsman 618 parts lathe that's a
prime candidate for rust removal. I went to HD and a supermarket in
search of washing soda, sodium carbonate, but all I got was quizzical
facial expressions from the help. So ....where do you get that stuff?


Rex B
Fort Worth

Try your local large 99c store. They often carry it.

Gunner



" We have all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million
typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of
Shakespeare...Thanks to AOL and WebTv, we know this is not possible."

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 11:30:42 -0600, Rex B wrote:

Electrolytic Rust Removal - Bought a Craftsman 618 parts lathe that's a
prime candidate for rust removal. I went to HD and a supermarket in
search of washing soda, sodium carbonate, but all I got was quizzical
facial expressions from the help. So ....where do you get that stuff?


Rex B
Fort Worth

Wal-Mart probably has it, near the pool supplies. They do here, (MN)
during the summer. If not, a pool supply place will. It's used for
adjusting the pH of pools.

That makes sense. I was just in the wrong dept at HD.

Thanks all

Don Foreman wrote:
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 11:30:42 -0600, Rex B wrote:


Electrolytic Rust Removal - Bought a Craftsman 618 parts lathe that's a
prime candidate for rust removal. I went to HD and a supermarket in
search of washing soda, sodium carbonate, but all I got was quizzical
facial expressions from the help. So ....where do you get that stuff?


Rex B
Fort Worth


Wal-Mart probably has it, near the pool supplies. They do here, (MN)
during the summer. If not, a pool supply place will. It's used for
adjusting the pH of pools.

Rex B wrote:

Electrolytic Rust Removal - Bought a Craftsman 618 parts lathe that's
a prime candidate for rust removal. I went to HD and a supermarket in
search of washing soda, sodium carbonate, but all I got was quizzical
facial expressions from the help. So ....where do you get that stuff?

You can buy sodium carbonate or washing soda in large quantities (a
pound or so)
for swimming pool use. Any place that has swimming pool supplies should
have it.

Jon

Rex B wrote:

I went to HD and a supermarket in
search of washing soda, sodium carbonate, but all I got was quizzical
facial expressions from the help. So ....where do you get that stuff?


At the supermarket. Arm and Hammer washing soda. In the laundry aisle.

Kevin Gallimore


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Rex B wrote:
Electrolytic Rust Removal - Bought a Craftsman 618 parts lathe that's a
prime candidate for rust removal. I went to HD and a supermarket in
search of washing soda, sodium carbonate, but all I got was quizzical
facial expressions from the help. So ....where do you get that stuff?

Muriatic acid will dissolve the rust without hurting the steel.
Pretty nasty stuff, though--I get an awful taste in my mouth just
thinking about it.
A 10:1 dilution with water might do it, or read the label.

Acid to the water!

Ken Grunke

--
take da "ma" offa dot com fer eemayl

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"Ken Grunke" wrote in message
...
Rex B wrote:
Electrolytic Rust Removal - Bought a Craftsman 618 parts lathe that's a
prime candidate for rust removal. I went to HD and a supermarket in
search of washing soda, sodium carbonate, but all I got was quizzical
facial expressions from the help. So ....where do you get that stuff?

Muriatic acid will dissolve the rust without hurting the steel.

Sorry, Ken, that's not true. If you leave steel in muriatic long enough,
it's gone, assuming you don't consume the acid first. Muriatic acid will
also attack particular spots on steel and eat them faster, assuming you
leave your pieces in long enough. It's a lot smarter to use phosphoric acid
if you're going to use an acid at all.

In the case of HCL (muriatic) it doesn't really matter if you pour the water
into the acid, but it's a bad habit to acquire, especially if you work with
sulfuric acid. I've seen it empty an evaporating dish when it finally
decided to mix with the water.

Harold

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:
"Ken Grunke" wrote in message
...

Rex B wrote:

Electrolytic Rust Removal - Bought a Craftsman 618 parts lathe that's a
prime candidate for rust removal. I went to HD and a supermarket in
search of washing soda, sodium carbonate, but all I got was quizzical
facial expressions from the help. So ....where do you get that stuff?

Muriatic acid will dissolve the rust without hurting the steel.


Sorry, Ken, that's not true. If you leave steel in muriatic long enough,
it's gone, assuming you don't consume the acid first. Muriatic acid will
also attack particular spots on steel and eat them faster, assuming you
leave your pieces in long enough. It's a lot smarter to use phosphoric acid
if you're going to use an acid at all.

In the case of HCL (muriatic) it doesn't really matter if you pour the water
into the acid, but it's a bad habit to acquire, especially if you work with
sulfuric acid. I've seen it empty an evaporating dish when it finally
decided to mix with the water.

This is not a strong argument for using the stuff, Harold--but of course
you wouldn't leave a piece of steel in the acid longer than needed to
dissolve the rust.
I tried it today, just to make sure I wasn't a brick or two short of a
load. A smidgen of straight-from-the-jug muriatic in a plastic cup
dissolved a heavy coat of rust on a scrap piece of steel in 2-3 minutes,
leaving a dull gray, but very clean surface.
I'm definitely interested in alternatives, having some rust problems of
my own in my shop. I just happened to have a partial gallon of muriatic
around, and it's come in handy for small rust removal jobs.

Ken Grunke

--
take da "ma" offa dot com fer eemayl

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"Ken Grunke" wrote in message
...
Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:
"Ken Grunke" wrote in message
...

Rex B wrote:

Electrolytic Rust Removal - Bought a Craftsman 618 parts lathe that's a
prime candidate for rust removal. I went to HD and a supermarket in
search of washing soda, sodium carbonate, but all I got was quizzical
facial expressions from the help. So ....where do you get that stuff?

Muriatic acid will dissolve the rust without hurting the steel.


Sorry, Ken, that's not true. If you leave steel in muriatic long
enough,
it's gone, assuming you don't consume the acid first. Muriatic acid
will
also attack particular spots on steel and eat them faster, assuming you
leave your pieces in long enough. It's a lot smarter to use phosphoric
acid
if you're going to use an acid at all.

In the case of HCL (muriatic) it doesn't really matter if you pour the
water
into the acid, but it's a bad habit to acquire, especially if you work
with
sulfuric acid. I've seen it empty an evaporating dish when it finally
decided to mix with the water.

This is not a strong argument for using the stuff, Harold--but of course
you wouldn't leave a piece of steel in the acid longer than needed to
dissolve the rust.
I tried it today, just to make sure I wasn't a brick or two short of a
load. A smidgen of straight-from-the-jug muriatic in a plastic cup
dissolved a heavy coat of rust on a scrap piece of steel in 2-3 minutes,
leaving a dull gray, but very clean surface.
I'm definitely interested in alternatives, having some rust problems of
my own in my shop. I just happened to have a partial gallon of muriatic
around, and it's come in handy for small rust removal jobs.

I use electrolytic rust removal, (Rex, "washing soda" is Arm & Hammer All
Natural Super Washing Soda," 'comes in a yellow 55-oz. box, in the laundry
detergent section of most large supermarkets), muriatic acid, glacial acetic
acid, or phosphoric acid, as appropriate. I've become a connoisseur of rust
and filth g). I haven't tried the salt-and-vinegar approach.

I like the eletrolytic method. It leaves some black crud that brushes off
easily with a stainless brush. So does phosphoric acid (although the black
crud left by phosphoric, when it's used on thick rust, can be much harder to
remove), which, according to the experts, does not attack the base metal.
It's used by automobile body restorers for that reason. The black crud is
another iron oxide, which the removal process converts from red rust, both
of which I'll leave to the experts to describe.

Glacial acetic is something I picked up from an old-tool restorer. I've
replaced it with electolytic, which works faster and better.

Muriatic is the fastest but it supposedly penetrates fine tracks left by the
rust, and it's also alleged to leave NaCl (salt) in the pores if you try to
neutralize it with baking soda. I haven't had that problem but I generally
just rinse it with water these days, to avoid it. Muriatic does not leave
the black crud. It is said to attack the base metal to a slight degree
(nitric acid being the one that attacks it to an extreme degree).

For the elctrolytic method, I've used both the tank method and the brush
method. I like the brush method better. It's described in the dropbox
somewhere -- maybe someone can help you find it.

For the tank method I use just a dilute solution of washing soda. For the
brush method I use the more complex formula described in the dropbox. I
don't know if it's necessary -- I haven't tried the simple washing soda
solution with the brush method -- but I will some day soon.

My power supply is a 4-amp automobile battery charger. It works great, both
for the tank and for the brush. Sometimes I switch it to 6V to get the
amperage down to where I want it.

Happy de-rusting.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ken Grunke" wrote in message
...
snip----

This is not a strong argument for using the stuff, Harold--but of course
you wouldn't leave a piece of steel in the acid longer than needed to
dissolve the rust.

Ok, I'll provide an argument for not using it. Hydrogen embrittlement.
If your piece is hardened, that's one of the hazards. Easily eliminated by
a prolonged roast at something like 375° F, though.

I tried it today, just to make sure I wasn't a brick or two short of a
load. A smidgen of straight-from-the-jug muriatic in a plastic cup
dissolved a heavy coat of rust on a scrap piece of steel in 2-3 minutes,
leaving a dull gray, but very clean surface.
That
rusts immediately. It removes rust all too well, Ken. That's not my
argument. I used to buy the stuff by the drum when I refined precious
metals. Everything in my lab was rusted that was made of iron, including
stainless items. I ran a fume hood almost constantly, but it's next to
impossible to escape the fumes. That's yet another argument against using
hydrochloric (muriatic) acid.

It's quite forgiving as far as handling goes, so long as you keep it out of
your lungs and eyes, but the fumes raise all kinds of hell with things.
If one must use it, it's best done outside unless there's a decent fume hood
available. I've had to do some serious rust removal on large items, doors,
doorframes, etc. I've used phosphoric with super success, and the surface
left behind is well prepared to receive paint and is rust resistant. Much
better choice, but definitely shower.

I'm definitely interested in alternatives, having some rust problems of
my own in my shop. I just happened to have a partial gallon of muriatic
around, and it's come in handy for small rust removal jobs.

Chuckle! That may very well be the source of your rust, even if you keep it
well capped. If you have a safe place to store it outside, get it there
as quickly as possible. I've had items destroyed that were stored with
well capped gallon jugs of hydrochloric. It's next to impossible to
contain the fumes. Currently I have several gallons of acids (nitric,
hydrochloric and sulfuric) and keep them all outside. Luckily, I have enough
acreage that it's possible to store it safely. There's no way in hell it's
ever going to get stored inside the way I did when I was refining. I got
tired of everything getting rusted.

Good luck!

Harold