I've shamelessly stolen this question from an online forum I peruse now
and again, but knowing what I know about the folks over there I'm betting
there's a better chance the answer will be found here. I'm genuinely
curious to know the answer since I'm into trivia like this, so here goes.

Someone has a nut that looks like this:

http://www.aernovo.com/newspics/nut1.jpg

And, according to someone else, it requires a socket that looks like this:

http://www.aernovo.com/newspics/spanner3.jpg

That socket image is taken from a 70s-era Snap-On catalog, supposedly. Web
searches for information about "spanner sockets" turned up very little of
any use. Mostly it was for sites selling what most folks think of when
they hear the word spanner, and not some sort of crazy faux-castellated nut
turner.

So what is the current terminology for that kind of nut? And what's the
socket for it called? I've seen those sockets for sale before at my local
well stocked tool store, but can't find them online anywhere under that
name which leads me to think that's not the modern term for them. Anyone
know? Thanks!

The nut is a plain old castellated nut. Nothing special. The
socket/spanner is for a different type of nut, with wrenching features that
are a series of square holes in a flush bolt or nut head. Sort of like a
high torque flush fastener. The whole purpose is to keep the surface of the
fastener flush, like the pin drive security fasteners in public places. I
may be wrong, but I think I saw one of these a billion years ago and it
seems like it would be for that funky bolt head...

"The Hurdy Gurdy Man" wrote in message
news:wymCd.25307$_62.19585@trnddc01...
| I've shamelessly stolen this question from an online forum I peruse now
| and again, but knowing what I know about the folks over there I'm betting
| there's a better chance the answer will be found here. I'm genuinely
| curious to know the answer since I'm into trivia like this, so here goes.
|
| Someone has a nut that looks like this:
|
| http://www.aernovo.com/newspics/nut1.jpg
|
| And, according to someone else, it requires a socket that looks like this:
|
| http://www.aernovo.com/newspics/spanner3.jpg
|
| That socket image is taken from a 70s-era Snap-On catalog, supposedly.
Web
| searches for information about "spanner sockets" turned up very little of
| any use. Mostly it was for sites selling what most folks think of when
| they hear the word spanner, and not some sort of crazy faux-castellated
nut
| turner.
|
| So what is the current terminology for that kind of nut? And what's the
| socket for it called? I've seen those sockets for sale before at my local
| well stocked tool store, but can't find them online anywhere under that
| name which leads me to think that's not the modern term for them. Anyone
| know? Thanks!

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 02:01:26 GMT, "carl mciver"
wrote:

The nut is a plain old castellated nut. Nothing special.
Any castellated nut that I ever dealt with had flats to enable the use
of a wrench - most often hex.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

I don't know off hand where to buy a socket for this nut, but unless I was
going to be using it everyday, hare is what I would do. Measure the outside
diameter of the nut and then find a 6 point socket with the same outside
diameter. (Hey who says those made in China sockets are good for nothing?)
Use an abrasive cutoff wheel to cut 6 wedge shapes out of the socket and
carefully fit the remaining socket into the nut.

Cost in the 2 to 3 dollar range including the dozen or so dremel wheels you
are going to go through.

Or you could spend a week tracking down a factory made one and spend 20 to
30 bucks.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

"The Hurdy Gurdy Man" wrote in message
news:wymCd.25307$_62.19585@trnddc01...
I've shamelessly stolen this question from an online forum I peruse now
and again, but knowing what I know about the folks over there I'm betting
there's a better chance the answer will be found here. I'm genuinely
curious to know the answer since I'm into trivia like this, so here goes.

Someone has a nut that looks like this:

http://www.aernovo.com/newspics/nut1.jpg

And, according to someone else, it requires a socket that looks like this:

http://www.aernovo.com/newspics/spanner3.jpg

That socket image is taken from a 70s-era Snap-On catalog, supposedly.
Web
searches for information about "spanner sockets" turned up very little of
any use. Mostly it was for sites selling what most folks think of when
they hear the word spanner, and not some sort of crazy faux-castellated
nut
turner.

So what is the current terminology for that kind of nut? And what's the
socket for it called? I've seen those sockets for sale before at my local
well stocked tool store, but can't find them online anywhere under that
name which leads me to think that's not the modern term for them. Anyone
know? Thanks!

This looks like a castellated bung for welding onto or affixing somehow to a
larger assembly?

Peter

"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
The nut is a plain old castellated nut. Nothing special.
Any castellated nut that I ever dealt with had flats to enable the use
of a wrench - most often hex.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Tom wrote:

Well I don't know how you searched Google but there's plenty of
mention and illustrations of spanner sockets..

I typed in "spanner sockets" and hit search. Which returns lots of pictures
of those two prong pin spanners, not something that would be the inverse
of the nut pictured. I spent a good hour or so clicking on just about
every link, and I think maybe one or two turned up something like the
socket picture, but it was never a page that had a clear description and
a proper name. Usually some crusty and esoteric page on an old server
in the UK somewhere. I was hoping it'd turn up in a tool catalog online
someplace, but no such luck.

As for the spanner sockets in question, they're still in my 90s
Snap On cat. Look at the sizes involved and the drive size,
they aren't for the average auto! :-)

I noticed that, which leads me to believe that the socket picture from
the old Snap-On catalog is for a different type of nut with a similar
design. Supposedly the nut in the photograph is slightly over a half
inch in diameter, and is used to hold together a connecting rod in
an engine.

While searching around a bit more later, I did have better luck searching
for "castellated socket" and "castle socket." Those turned up something
closer... mostly references to a tool used for suspension components on
some motorcycles, but no pictures and no links to sources of the tool.
Also it turned up links for tools to remove the knuckles from certain
4WD vehicles. Still no luck on finding the "actual" tool for the nut
in question, though.

My old Land Rover used castellated nuts like these, and you would use
a tool like the one shown to remove it.
It does not seem to be exactly the same, but like your nut, the nuts
used on my Land Rover had no flats which would have allowed me to use
a normal wrench.

--
C++: The power, elegance and simplicity of a hand grenade.

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 15:19:20 -0800, Tom wrote:

carl mciver wrote:

The nut is a plain old castellated nut. Nothing special.
...........

Just how would you tighten it?


Tom

Just like the previous owner did. With a Pipe Wrench (Stilson to you
lads downunder?)

Gunner


It's not unwise to remember that Mother Nature is essentially a
murderous, sneakly, promiscuous bitch who has been trying to kill you
since your conception.

Eventually she will succeed, perhaps with the help of your fellow man.

Life consists in putting off the inevitable as long as possible and
taking what good and joy you can before her success.

Whether you attribute that situation to evolutionary forces, a fallen
nature after Adam and Eve screwed the pooch, or whatever, it's no less true.

Be friendly, pleasant, unaggressive, and honest toward all and be
prepared to ignore, avoid, or even kill anyone who is otherwise toward
you. Being ready doesn't mean eager, just ready. What true friends are
found in life will undestand and accept that fundamental rule of human
interaction." John Husvar

Okay I had a brain fart. Not necessarily "plain old" but with an external
spanner, even called a spanner in the USA, it can be tightened and removed.
Sort of a semicircle with a square peg pointing in on one end and a handle
coming off the other. Wraps around the nut. I do think there's a few in
the Snap On catalog, IIRC. More often used on European stuff, I think.

"Tom" wrote in message
...
| carl mciver wrote:
|
| The nut is a plain old castellated nut. Nothing special.
| ...........
|
| Just how would you tighten it?
|
|
| Tom

Maybe they were supposed to be finger-tight, held by a cotter pin
duhhh, in which case the wrenches would work against the original
intent of the nut design... ??


Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen wrote:

My old Land Rover used castellated nuts like these, and you would use
a tool like the one shown to remove it.
It does not seem to be exactly the same, but like your nut, the nuts
used on my Land Rover had no flats which would have allowed me to use
a normal wrench.

"M" == Mark writes:

M Maybe they were supposed to be finger-tight, held by a cotter pin
M duhhh, in which case the wrenches would work against the original
M intent of the nut design... ??


M Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen wrote:

My old Land Rover used castellated nuts like these, and you would use
a tool like the one shown to remove it. It does not seem to be
exactly the same, but like your nut, the nuts

used on my Land Rover had no flats which would have allowed me to use
a normal wrench.


Yes, they are supposed to be locked by a cotter pin, but definitely
not finger tight, as this is the nut that holds the wheel hub on the
axle...
The tool I used was a Land Rover special tool, documented in their
repair manual.
I think the design is to allow locking by the cotter pin in virtually
any position.

--
C++: The power, elegance and simplicity of a hand grenade.

"The Hurdy Gurdy Man" wrote in message
....
I've shamelessly stolen this question from an online forum I peruse
now
and again, but knowing what I know about the folks over there I'm
betting
there's a better chance the answer will be found here. I'm genuinely
curious to know the answer since I'm into trivia like this, so here
goes.

Someone has a nut that looks like this:

http://www.aernovo.com/newspics/nut1.jpg

And, according to someone else, it requires a socket that looks like
this:

http://www.aernovo.com/newspics/spanner3.jpg

That socket image is taken from a 70s-era Snap-On catalog, supposedly.
Web
searches for information about "spanner sockets" turned up very little
of
any use. Mostly it was for sites selling what most folks think of
when
they hear the word spanner, and not some sort of crazy
faux-castellated nut
turner.

So what is the current terminology for that kind of nut? And what's
the
socket for it called? I've seen those sockets for sale before at my
local
well stocked tool store, but can't find them online anywhere under
that
name which leads me to think that's not the modern term for them.
Anyone
know? Thanks!

Well, you've had some interesting and valid answers, but I think your
actual question has not been addressed.

The question you asked was concerned with the "trivia like this" and
therefore asked for the "original and correct" information on this; not
the "possibly how" or the "could be." (Not a criticism of the posters -
this is the main topic of the group) Many here could turn, drill and
thread a piece of hex stock and mill the slots for a replacement.

Now I don't know the correct "trivia" answer either ;-} but I think the
answer about the "Land Rover" actually using them would give a valid
place to start as that product evidently was a "factory design - used
and installed."

Another comment mentioned "finger tight" which might also give an
interesting aspect to the information. The "lugs" on the wrench look
like they are, and should be, much shorter than the depth of the
castellation; possibly to view when the cotter pin hole lines-up. This
means that the torque-spec on the outward end might approach the
"breaking point" of the extended parts on the nut.

I find this interesting and would appreciate it if, after researching
and finding the answers, you would post the results here...

BTW - have you determined the thread pitch? A castellated nut usually
has a finer thread than this appears to have, to allow "less travel" in
tightening for cotter pin alignment.

Thanks,
JHbs

I would think that you don't

Tom wrote:
carl mciver wrote:

The nut is a plain old castellated nut. Nothing special.

...........

Just how would you tighten it?


Tom

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 12:41:30 GMT, "carl mciver"
wrote:

Okay I had a brain fart. Not necessarily "plain old" but with an external
spanner, even called a spanner in the USA, it can be tightened and removed.
Sort of a semicircle with a square peg pointing in on one end and a handle
coming off the other. Wraps around the nut. I do think there's a few in
the Snap On catalog, IIRC. More often used on European stuff, I think.

BMW included a wrench like that in the tool kit on its old (R-50,
R-60, etc.) motorcycles. IIRC it was used for removing the muffler.

--RC

"Tom" wrote in message
...
| carl mciver wrote:
|
| The nut is a plain old castellated nut. Nothing special.
| ...........
|
| Just how would you tighten it?
|
|
| Tom

"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
fly with a club.
-- John W. Cambell Jr.

Phants wrote:

Now I don't know the correct "trivia" answer either ;-} but I think the
answer about the "Land Rover" actually using them would give a valid
place to start as that product evidently was a "factory design - used
and installed."

From what I've been finding, there's a lot of vehicles that use something
similar on the ends of spindles and whatnot, and that many types of
"spanner sockets" exist to work with them. Those sockets also show up
in turbine repair, or so Google says. The thing is, those are generally
significantly larger nuts than these. On the order of 1.5" or greater,
whereas this one is supposedly just a bit over 0.5".

I'm definitely going with the "factory design" idea, it sure looks like
something requiring one of those fancy overpriced dealer specific tools.
It's supposed to be a nut holding a connecting rod together, so I'd imagine
there's a special socket to allow for a good grip so that things can get
torqued properly.

I find this interesting and would appreciate it if, after researching
and finding the answers, you would post the results here...

I'd be happy to do so... assuming I find some! I'd love to know exactly
what it's called and what the history of the design is... chances are
that's long lost at this point, though.

BTW - have you determined the thread pitch? A castellated nut usually
has a finer thread than this appears to have, to allow "less travel" in
tightening for cotter pin alignment.

I'll tell you what I know. Supposedly it's off a 10mm connecting rod bolt,
which doesn't clarify what the thread pitch is but it might give some
clues. And the latest info about it is that the engine that used said
nuts is a Maybach 1400cc V12. The castellations on it are, as it turns
out, meant for a cotter pin as others have pointed out and there's an
image of the nuts in an as-installed state. I've grabbed it and posted
it he

http://www.aernovo.com/newspics/ccase1.jpg

So it definitely looks like it'd require a socket on the end of an
extension bar to reach the things, and that a normal castellated nut would
have almost worked if the nuts weren't so close together. It almost
seems like one of those cases where some engineers painted themselves into
a corner with the design and had to "cut corners" (pun intended) on the
nut to get it to work.

I'm thinking the suggestion of making a socket for it is pretty much the
only solution for removing and installing the things correctly, since it
might be that there is no official name for the tool or for that type of
nut. I suppose we could christen it the "stripped at the factory
castellated nut removal/installation tool!"

The Hurdy Gurdy Man wrote:
snip
I'll tell you what I know. Supposedly it's off a 10mm connecting rod
bolt,
which doesn't clarify what the thread pitch is but it might give some

clues. And the latest info about it is that the engine that used
said
nuts is a Maybach 1400cc V12. The castellations on it are, as it
turns
out, meant for a cotter pin as others have pointed out and there's an
image of the nuts in an as-installed state. I've grabbed it and
posted
it he

http://www.aernovo.com/newspics/ccase1.jpg


Interesting picture. What sort of engine, bike, car or aero? And only
1400cc? What vintage? '20s, 30's or later? I wouldn't think such a
small engine would require the use of 4 nuts on the con rod cap, even
if it was a high-revving engine.

I almost pegged the nut as some type of aero engine fastener, there's
some peculiar types floating around out there for tight quarters like
that. If I had to remove it, I'd make up a flat blade thin enough to
fit the castellations, cut center clearance for the stud and find a
sacrificial socket to weld it into. Hopefully, it isn't torqued to
hundreds of ft-lbs.

Stan

wrote:

Interesting picture. What sort of engine, bike, car or aero? And only
1400cc? What vintage? '20s, 30's or later? I wouldn't think such a
small engine would require the use of 4 nuts on the con rod cap, even
if it was a high-revving engine.

Sadly, I've no more information available than what I've already given.
Everything I know about it was gruuzed off another group, and no more
information than what I've given here was given there. I'm assuming it's
either car or bike, most likely car of some kind. And 1400cc with 12
cylinders sure does seem like it would have very tiny pistons on it, unless
it had a tiny little stroke.

I almost pegged the nut as some type of aero engine fastener, there's
some peculiar types floating around out there for tight quarters like
that. If I had to remove it, I'd make up a flat blade thin enough to
fit the castellations, cut center clearance for the stud and find a
sacrificial socket to weld it into. Hopefully, it isn't torqued to
hundreds of ft-lbs.

It's a con rod nut, so I'd guess it to have a spec of maybe what, 45
ft-lbs on average? I'm sure that varies wildly depending on a whole host
of things, but from what I've experienced that seems to be reasonable for a
ballpark figure. And those castellations look fairly wide, so you could
probably get a pretty good purchase on it that way.

Chances are I'll never hear anything more about it than I already have,
so my trivia lust may never be satisfied. Still, I hold out hope. The
whole idea of using castellated nuts on connecting rods is turning up some
new web search terms that might hold promise.

The Hurdy Gurdy Man wrote:

I've shamelessly stolen this question from an online forum I peruse now
and again, but knowing what I know about the folks over there I'm betting
there's a better chance the answer will be found here. I'm genuinely
curious to know the answer since I'm into trivia like this, so here goes.

Someone has a nut that looks like this:

http://www.aernovo.com/newspics/nut1.jpg

And, according to someone else, it requires a socket that looks like this:

http://www.aernovo.com/newspics/spanner3.jpg

That socket image is taken from a 70s-era Snap-On catalog, supposedly. Web
searches for information about "spanner sockets" turned up very little of
any use. Mostly it was for sites selling what most folks think of when
they hear the word spanner, and not some sort of crazy faux-castellated nut
turner.

So what is the current terminology for that kind of nut? And what's the
socket for it called? I've seen those sockets for sale before at my local
well stocked tool store, but can't find them online anywhere under that
name which leads me to think that's not the modern term for them. Anyone
know? Thanks!

Well I don't know how you searched Google but there's plenty of
mention and illustrations of spanner sockets..
As for the spanner sockets in question, they're still in my 90s
Snap On cat. Look at the sizes involved and the drive size,
they aren't for the average auto! :-)

Tom

carl mciver wrote:

The nut is a plain old castellated nut. Nothing special.
............

Just how would you tighten it?


Tom

The Hurdy Gurdy Man wrote:

Sadly, I've no more information available than what I've already given.

Of course, once I got off my lazy ass and researched more at the source
instead of going straight to Google I learned a great deal more!

Ok, so first off, I mis-read the specs of the original engine pretty horribly.
It's not a 1400cc engine, it's a 1400 CID engine. Big difference! That
would certainly explain the dual bolts on the con rods, to say the least.
And as for the vehicle source, it wasn't a car, bike, or a plane... it's a
tank! A German Panther tank, to be exact, circa 1944. The engine is a
Maybach 230. Here's the site with the thread for the curious:

http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20756

(For those of you unfamiliar with that particular site, it's an automotive
forum generally dedicated to professional and amateur racing, not of the
"on street" variety. Lots of... shall we say... "dominant" personalities
there, and while they do come up with some interesting stuff from time
to time, even by their own admission it's not a particularly friendly and
sociable place for those who aren't already in-the-know.)

So much for my ballpark guess on torque specs for the thing. Probably also
ruins any chance of finding some kind of official tool name for it, but
at least it gives a better direction for research. Tank engine guts...
any war machinery historians out there?

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:13:23 GMT, The Hurdy Gurdy Man
wrote:

wrote:

Interesting picture. What sort of engine, bike, car or aero? And only
1400cc? What vintage? '20s, 30's or later? I wouldn't think such a
small engine would require the use of 4 nuts on the con rod cap, even
if it was a high-revving engine.

Sadly, I've no more information available than what I've already given.
Everything I know about it was gruuzed off another group, and no more
information than what I've given here was given there. I'm assuming it's
either car or bike, most likely car of some kind. And 1400cc with 12
cylinders sure does seem like it would have very tiny pistons on it, unless
it had a tiny little stroke.

It may well have come off a Maybach V-12, but if so it wasn't a 1400
cc engine. Maybach's Zeppelin line of luxury automobiles was powered
by V-12s, but they started at more than 6 liters. AFIK the smallest
engine Maybach ever made was between 3 and 4 liters and used in cars
in the late 30s. However I don't think it was a V-12.

I don't think Maybach ever built motorcycles.

14 liters maybe.

--RC




"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
fly with a club.
-- John W. Cambell Jr.

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 01:45:00 GMT, The Hurdy Gurdy Man
calmly ranted:

I've shamelessly stolen this question from an online forum I peruse now
and again, but knowing what I know about the folks over there I'm betting
there's a better chance the answer will be found here. I'm genuinely
curious to know the answer since I'm into trivia like this, so here goes.

Someone has a nut that looks like this:

http://www.aernovo.com/newspics/nut1.jpg

And, according to someone else, it requires a socket that looks like this:

http://www.aernovo.com/newspics/spanner3.jpg

That socket image is taken from a 70s-era Snap-On catalog, supposedly. Web
searches for information about "spanner sockets" turned up very little of
any use. Mostly it was for sites selling what most folks think of when
they hear the word spanner, and not some sort of crazy faux-castellated nut
turner.

So what is the current terminology for that kind of nut? And what's the
socket for it called? I've seen those sockets for sale before at my local
well stocked tool store, but can't find them online anywhere under that
name which leads me to think that's not the modern term for them. Anyone
know? Thanks!

Try "spanner wrench". The easiest way to get one is to take a piece
of steel, drill the ID, and saw the "teeth" into the other end. Drill
another hole for a bar to turn it. I used to make them from pipe for
automotive work. A die grinder with a 1/16" x 4" wheel works just
fine. I couldn't wait for the SnapOn or MAC guy so I made my own.
One I had to make an actual spanner wrench for was the headlight
switch bezel nut on some old Chebby. Old 4x4 3/4 ton front wheel
bearing nuts were the same problem. If you didn't have the 4"-ish
socket, you might be SOL.




-----------------------------------------------------------------
When I die, I'm leaving my body to science fiction. --Steven Wright
----------------------------
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

On 04 Jan 2005 15:46:07 +0100, Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
calmly ranted:

Yes, they are supposed to be locked by a cotter pin, but definitely
not finger tight, as this is the nut that holds the wheel hub on the
axle...
The tool I used was a Land Rover special tool, documented in their
repair manual.
I think the design is to allow locking by the cotter pin in virtually
any position.

Ford had straight hex nuts and a castellated cap with more slots in
it to allow more positions for the nut to be held by the cotter pin.

So, in that case, he can make a curved-bar tightener out of a piece of
1/8" to 1/4" square (or round) bar. That will be enough to get his few
in/lbs or ft/lbs of preload.

Half-ascii drawing follows:

_________ __
========= ||
\\_____//
-----

If it's in a tight place, bend a longer arm up at 90° so it will fit
into a deep area, then off at 90° again for leverage.


-
In nature's infinite book of secrecy a little I can read. -Shakespeare
------
http://diversify.com Website Application & Database Development

carl mciver wrote:

Okay I had a brain fart. Not necessarily "plain old" but with an external
spanner, even called a spanner in the USA, it can be tightened and removed.
Sort of a semicircle with a square peg pointing in on one end and a handle
coming off the other. Wraps around the nut. I do think there's a few in
the Snap On catalog, IIRC. More often used on European stuff, I think.

"Tom" wrote in message
...
| carl mciver wrote:
|
| The nut is a plain old castellated nut. Nothing special.
| ...........
|
| Just how would you tighten it?
|
|
| Tom

I don't think so Carl.. These nuts are made to fit in a recess that's
why they are tightened with a spanner that drives on the face of the
nut.

Tom

yourname wrote:

I would think that you don't

Tom wrote:
carl mciver wrote:

The nut is a plain old castellated nut. Nothing special.

...........

Just how would you tighten it?


Tom

I suggest you study the pix of the spanner sockets in question.
they are 1-1/2" drive impact sockets!

Tom

From the picture I wonder if this is an engine I heard of once where
there is no big end bearing in the normal sense, instead the crank web
is round and runs in bearings on its outer surface. I was told it was
German but used in a patrol boat, might still be the same basic engine.

The Hurdy Gurdy Man wrote:

The Hurdy Gurdy Man wrote:

Sadly, I've no more information available than what I've already given.


Of course, once I got off my lazy ass and researched more at the source
instead of going straight to Google I learned a great deal more!

Ok, so first off, I mis-read the specs of the original engine pretty horribly.
It's not a 1400cc engine, it's a 1400 CID engine. Big difference! That
would certainly explain the dual bolts on the con rods, to say the least.
And as for the vehicle source, it wasn't a car, bike, or a plane... it's a
tank! A German Panther tank, to be exact, circa 1944. The engine is a
Maybach 230. Here's the site with the thread for the curious:

http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20756

(For those of you unfamiliar with that particular site, it's an automotive
forum generally dedicated to professional and amateur racing, not of the
"on street" variety. Lots of... shall we say... "dominant" personalities
there, and while they do come up with some interesting stuff from time
to time, even by their own admission it's not a particularly friendly and
sociable place for those who aren't already in-the-know.)

So much for my ballpark guess on torque specs for the thing. Probably also
ruins any chance of finding some kind of official tool name for it, but
at least it gives a better direction for research. Tank engine guts...
any war machinery historians out there?

The Hurdy Gurdy Man wrote:

...................
http://www.aernovo.com/newspics/ccase1.jpg

So it definitely looks like it'd require a socket on the end of an
extension bar to reach the things, and that a normal castellated nut would
have almost worked if the nuts weren't so close together. It almost
seems like one of those cases where some engineers painted themselves into
a corner with the design and had to "cut corners" (pun intended) on the
nut to get it to work.

I'm thinking the suggestion of making a socket for it is pretty much the
only solution for removing and installing the things correctly, since it
might be that there is no official name for the tool or for that type of
nut. I suppose we could christen it the "stripped at the factory
castellated nut removal/installation tool!"

If that's your understanding, don't ever take the back off
a self winding watch!

"The Hurdy Gurdy Man" wrote in message
....
Ok, so first off, I mis-read the specs of the original engine
pretty horribly. It's not a 1400cc engine, it's a 1400 CID
engine. Big difference! That would certainly explain the
dual bolts on the con rods, to say the least. And as for the
vehicle source, it wasn't a car, bike, or a plane... it's a
tank! A German Panther tank, to be exact, circa 1944. The
engine is a Maybach 230. Here's the site with the thread for
the curious:

....................... a TANK ENGINE ..............!

Now it turns out that this is an "inside joke" in my family; It's funny
and ; I laughed out loud...

When an uncle of mine came accross the German for Allenwrench:

Winkelschraubendreheri Inbusschlüssel

He maintained that one of the reasons that Germany lost in WWII was
because they could not get tools or parts for their equipment on time -
It took to long to write out the requests... ;-}

The "tank engine" that required both this castelated nut, and its
wrench, support his belief. I would love to see the original "tank
manual" reference for the tool and parts listing...
Thanks,
JHbs

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 18:11:26 -0500, "Phants"
wrote:

"The Hurdy Gurdy Man" wrote in message
...
Ok, so first off, I mis-read the specs of the original engine
pretty horribly. It's not a 1400cc engine, it's a 1400 CID
engine. Big difference! That would certainly explain the
dual bolts on the con rods, to say the least. And as for the
vehicle source, it wasn't a car, bike, or a plane... it's a
tank! A German Panther tank, to be exact, circa 1944. The
engine is a Maybach 230. Here's the site with the thread for
the curious:

...................... a TANK ENGINE ..............!

Now it turns out that this is an "inside joke" in my family; It's funny
and ; I laughed out loud...

When an uncle of mine came accross the German for Allenwrench:

Winkelschraubendreheri Inbusschlüssel

He maintained that one of the reasons that Germany lost in WWII was
because they could not get tools or parts for their equipment on time -
It took to long to write out the requests... ;-}

The mechanics manual for BWM motorcycles used to be printed in four
languages in parallel, including German and English, broken down by
steps. The English was typically about half the length of the German.


The "tank engine" that required both this castelated nut, and its
wrench, support his belief. I would love to see the original "tank
manual" reference for the tool and parts listing...


There's a possibility you might actually get your wish. Armored
fighting vehicles and associated printed material have been collectors
items for a long time. There are a lot more Panther tanks in existence
than there are Maybach automobiles. I believe that a lot of the
manuals and such have been preserved as well.

Thanks,
JHbs

--RC
"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
fly with a club.
-- John W. Cambell Jr.

The Hurdy Gurdy Man wrote:
The Hurdy Gurdy Man wrote:

Sadly, I've no more information available than what I've already
given.

Of course, once I got off my lazy ass and researched more at the
source
instead of going straight to Google I learned a great deal more!

Ok, so first off, I mis-read the specs of the original engine pretty
horribly.
It's not a 1400cc engine, it's a 1400 CID engine. Big difference!
That
would certainly explain the dual bolts on the con rods, to say the
least.
And as for the vehicle source, it wasn't a car, bike, or a plane...
it's a
tank! A German Panther tank, to be exact, circa 1944. The engine is
a
Maybach 230. Here's the site with the thread for the curious:

http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20756

(For those of you unfamiliar with that particular site, it's an
automotive
forum generally dedicated to professional and amateur racing, not of
the
"on street" variety. Lots of... shall we say... "dominant"
personalities
there, and while they do come up with some interesting stuff from
time
to time, even by their own admission it's not a particularly friendly
and
sociable place for those who aren't already in-the-know.)

So much for my ballpark guess on torque specs for the thing.
Probably also
ruins any chance of finding some kind of official tool name for it,
but
at least it gives a better direction for research. Tank engine
guts...
any war machinery historians out there?

OK, so it's a tank diesel, that'd explain the heavy lower end. It also
explains the special nuts. In a couple of book I have on armor and
tank development, the authors mention that the Germans originally
designed their armored vehicles to be shipped back to the factory when
they needed service. Not much of a problem in western Europe where
railroads are plentiful, kind of hard in Russia where railroads were
fairly rare and a wider gauge to boot. So chances are the wrench for
those nuts was a non-standard specialty item and was probably only to
be found in the factory.

Stan

The Hurdy Gurdy Man wrote:
The Hurdy Gurdy Man wrote:

Sadly, I've no more information available than what I've already
given.

Of course, once I got off my lazy ass and researched more at the
source
instead of going straight to Google I learned a great deal more!

Ok, so first off, I mis-read the specs of the original engine pretty
horribly.
It's not a 1400cc engine, it's a 1400 CID engine. Big difference!
That
would certainly explain the dual bolts on the con rods, to say the
least.
And as for the vehicle source, it wasn't a car, bike, or a plane...
it's a
tank! A German Panther tank, to be exact, circa 1944. The engine is
a
Maybach 230. Here's the site with the thread for the curious:

http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20756

(For those of you unfamiliar with that particular site, it's an
automotive
forum generally dedicated to professional and amateur racing, not of
the
"on street" variety. Lots of... shall we say... "dominant"
personalities
there, and while they do come up with some interesting stuff from
time
to time, even by their own admission it's not a particularly friendly
and
sociable place for those who aren't already in-the-know.)

So much for my ballpark guess on torque specs for the thing.
Probably also
ruins any chance of finding some kind of official tool name for it,
but
at least it gives a better direction for research. Tank engine
guts...
any war machinery historians out there?

OK, so it's a tank diesel, that'd explain the heavy lower end. It also
explains the special nuts. In a couple of book I have on armor and
tank development, the authors mention that the Germans originally
designed their armored vehicles to be shipped back to the factory when
they needed service. Not much of a problem in western Europe where
railroads are plentiful, kind of hard in Russia where railroads were
fairly rare and a wider gauge to boot. So chances are the wrench for
those nuts was a non-standard specialty item and was probably only to
be found in the factory.

Stan