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| Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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Designer/machinist needed Greensboro, North Carolina
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 03:35:46 GMT, Gunner
wrote: On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:07:03 -0500, "Robin S." wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message . .. However, its still my right to hire only those that I wish to hire..and I wont hire pot heads or drunks or other users of drugs that tend to **** you up. So, it's not an invasion of privacy? **** no. Now if I had a rule that I could come into your home and **** test you because you may be using at home, that would be. But the "Patriot Act" is the best thing your beloved neocons ever did, right? What "church" must folks belong to? -- Cliff |
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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 03:35:46 GMT, Gunner
wrote: Until they come up with a "under the influence" test that can be used at work, **** testing is the only reliable method to make sure that the person you hire to perform a job, is not likely to be under the influence while performing that job. When that test hits the market, then Ill agree that there is no reason for **** testing. But then...Im sure folks will **** and moan about having to take one of those too, on the job. Frankly I dont give a damn if you burn the herb on your own time. Jost dont come to work impared. And as Ive said..at the moment..there is no reliable way to tell if you are impared on the job, or not. You have a problem again, Gummer. It's my understanding that such tests indicate *use*, perhaps even days or weeks ago, not "impaired". A test for "impaired" would be rather simple but probably weed out lots of fundies & wingers due to their impaired judgement. Any test for "use" would seem to be an effort to force "moral" judgements on others and rarely a test for "impaired". Many are also handicapped. Would they also be weeded out as "impaired"? -- Cliff |
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Gunner Lied:
And as Ive said..at the moment..there is no reliable way to tell if you are impared on the job, or not. Bull****, Gunner. Such tests _already_ exist. Typically somewhat like a video game, doing reaction-time testing, and perhaps other things depending on the nature of the job. Not able to do the task in the test, not allowed to operate the train, press, plane, whatever. Perhaps even get the breathalyzer, ****, blood, and/or other test - for cause - unless you want to be fired. In article , Cliff wrote: A test for "impaired" would be rather simple but probably weed out lots of fundies & wingers due to their impaired judgement. Of course, actual safety (even from people impaired on legal drugs) does not fit with the actual agenda of the people who prefer expensive **** testing to get rid of all those employees who eat poppyseed bagels, who show up as heroin addicts on the cheesy tests. -- Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by |
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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:39:06 -0500, Cliff said:
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 03:35:46 GMT, Gunner wrote: Until they come up with a "under the influence" test that can be used at work, **** testing is the only reliable method to make sure that the person you hire to perform a job, is not likely to be under the influence while performing that job. When that test hits the market, then Ill agree that there is no reason for **** testing. But then...Im sure folks will **** and moan about having to take one of those too, on the job. Frankly I dont give a damn if you burn the herb on your own time. Jost dont come to work impared. And as Ive said..at the moment..there is no reliable way to tell if you are impared on the job, or not. Bull****, there is to a test to see if one is impared or not. I forget what the cops call it, but they do it everytime the think some one is ****ed up behind the wheel. Oh yeah....It's call the sobrity test, you know walk the line put your finger on your nose that sort of thing....It is not just for testing drunks. Many pill poppers potheads, and even folks who took "cold medicine" have been handed DUI's for failing the test. You can tell if some one is "geeking" on coke or crank just by watching them for ten mins. or so. (I'm sure you know what I mean.) cliff snipped n. |
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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:37:13 GMT, Ecnerwal
wrote: Gunner Lied: And as Ive said..at the moment..there is no reliable way to tell if you are impared on the job, or not. Bull****, Gunner. Such tests _already_ exist. Typically somewhat like a video game, doing reaction-time testing, and perhaps other things depending on the nature of the job. Not able to do the task in the test, not allowed to operate the train, press, plane, whatever. Perhaps even get the breathalyzer, ****, blood, and/or other test - for cause - unless you want to be fired. Yes such tests do exist. They are expensive, time consuming and a number of them involve equipment that requires a lab tech to operate. And they are often wrong. Im an ex cop. I can "usually" tell if someone is on drugs and can often times tell you which one. Now to prove that to the courts or to the labor board will require at the minimum, a blood or **** test and a certified analysis from a certified lab. Please point out which common field test, other than the breathyliser will point out not only how much drugs by percentage are in your system, but which drug, and wether or not you are impaired or not. Even the breath test will not point out if you are impaired, only how much blood alcohol you have in your system. Those numbers are based on Averages, to determine amount of impairment. I know a tile setter that will generally blow a .16 (twice the legal limit) and still does beautiful work, and you cannot tell he is drunk. At the same time I know a young girl who can blow a .05 and be falling down. In article , Cliff wrote: A test for "impaired" would be rather simple but probably weed out lots of fundies & wingers due to their impaired judgement. Of course, actual safety (even from people impaired on legal drugs) does not fit with the actual agenda of the people who prefer expensive **** testing to get rid of all those employees who eat poppyseed bagels, who show up as heroin addicts on the cheesy tests. And those who eat poppy seed bagles simply ask that a further test be done, and the results will clear them of opiate useage. Dont know much about the subject, do you....? Gunner "If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're around." "Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right before demode` (out of fashion). -Buddy Jordan 2001 |
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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:51:39 -0500, North wrote:
Frankly I dont give a damn if you burn the herb on your own time. Jost dont come to work impared. And as Ive said..at the moment..there is no reliable way to tell if you are impared on the job, or not. Bull****, there is to a test to see if one is impared or not. I forget what the cops call it, but they do it everytime the think some one is ****ed up behind the wheel. Oh yeah....It's call the sobrity test, you know walk the line put your finger on your nose that sort of thing....It is not just for testing drunks. Many pill poppers potheads, and even folks who took "cold medicine" have been handed DUI's for failing the test. You can tell if some one is "geeking" on coke or crank just by watching them for ten mins. or so. (I'm sure you know what I mean.) cliff snipped n. Yes indeed. However if you have an inner ear infection, you will often fail the field sobriety test. God knows I conducted enough of them. If you have any number of neurological diseases, you will also fail, and will in many cases appear to be groked. Only blood or **** testing can be used to make the case of consumption and imparement, and only then based on human averages. Gunner "If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're around." "Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right before demode` (out of fashion). -Buddy Jordan 2001 |
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"Gunner" wrote in message ... Only blood or **** testing can be used to make the case of consumption and imparement, and only then based on human averages. The case for consumption has been made. You have yet to convince anyone of imparement. Do you see what I'm getting at, or are we on different pages? Regards, Robin |
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 03:49:31 GMT, Gunner
said: On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:51:39 -0500, North wrote: Frankly I dont give a damn if you burn the herb on your own time. Jost dont come to work impared. And as Ive said..at the moment..there is no reliable way to tell if you are impared on the job, or not. Bull****, there is to a test to see if one is impared or not. I forget what the cops call it, but they do it everytime the think some one is ****ed up behind the wheel. Oh yeah....It's call the sobrity test, you know walk the line put your finger on your nose that sort of thing....It is not just for testing drunks. Many pill poppers potheads, and even folks who took "cold medicine" have been handed DUI's for failing the test. You can tell if some one is "geeking" on coke or crank just by watching them for ten mins. or so. (I'm sure you know what I mean.) cliff snipped n. Yes indeed. However if you have an inner ear infection, you will often fail the field sobriety test. God knows I conducted enough of them. If you have any number of neurological diseases, you will also fail, and will in many cases appear to be groked. Only blood or **** testing can be used to make the case of consumption and imparement, and only then based on human averages. Gunner Agreed however the **** test should only be used after one fails the sobrity test, my opinion of course. But I must admitt that I drug test my employees, but my workmans policy states that I have to. I use the **** test as part of the job appication, as required under my insurance policy. After that there are no further drug tests unless there is an on the job injury. The injured employee is drug tested as required under my insurance policy. This requirment is clearly spelled out on my job apps. If I do not drug test (and I only do the minimume testing required) my workmans comp insurance rates are anywhere from 30 to 300 % higher. WV and VA law lets workman comp off the hook in the injured employee was under the influence during the injury and/or if the intoxication caused the injury. And I agree with this policy. Party all you want--on your own time just come to work sober. Druggies, and drunks in my business usually do something (sober) in short order to get themselves fired, such as showing up late or not showing up at all, ripping off the company, Or they do sloppy hafe-ass work which gets them fired. The two truck drivers on my payroll (Actual emplyees not subs), (tractor trailer drivers for transporting the dozer and backhoe) are drug tested by DOT not me. Sub-contrators that I hire are exempt because I do not have to cover them on MY workmans comp policy. n. |
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 03:47:07 GMT, Gunner
said: On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:37:13 GMT, Ecnerwal wrote: Gunner Lied: And as Ive said..at the moment..there is no reliable way to tell if you are impared on the job, or not. Bull****, Gunner. Such tests _already_ exist. Typically somewhat like a video game, doing reaction-time testing, and perhaps other things depending on the nature of the job. Not able to do the task in the test, not allowed to operate the train, press, plane, whatever. Perhaps even get the breathalyzer, ****, blood, and/or other test - for cause - unless you want to be fired. Yes such tests do exist. They are expensive, time consuming and a number of them involve equipment that requires a lab tech to operate. And they are often wrong. Im an ex cop. I can "usually" tell if someone is on drugs and can often times tell you which one. Now to prove that to the courts or to the labor board will require at the minimum, a blood or **** test and a certified analysis from a certified lab. Please point out which common field test, other than the breathyliser will point out not only how much drugs by percentage are in your system, but which drug, and wether or not you are impaired or not. Even the breath test will not point out if you are impaired, only how much blood alcohol you have in your system. Those numbers are based on Averages, to determine amount of impairment. I know a tile setter that will generally blow a .16 (twice the legal limit) and still does beautiful work, and you cannot tell he is drunk. At the same time I know a young girl who can blow a .05 and be falling down. In article , Cliff wrote: A test for "impaired" would be rather simple but probably weed out lots of fundies & wingers due to their impaired judgement. Of course, actual safety (even from people impaired on legal drugs) does not fit with the actual agenda of the people who prefer expensive **** testing to get rid of all those employees who eat poppyseed bagels, who show up as heroin addicts on the cheesy tests. And those who eat poppy seed bagles simply ask that a further test be done, and the results will clear them of opiate useage. Dont know much about the subject, do you....? Gunner Under my insurance poilcy, all positives must be sent to a lab for confirmation. |
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I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Gunner
wrote back on Tue, 23 Nov 2004 03:47:07 GMT in misc.survivalism : Please point out which common field test, other than the breathyliser will point out not only how much drugs by percentage are in your system, but which drug, and wether or not you are impaired or not. Even the breath test will not point out if you are impaired, only how much blood alcohol you have in your system. Those numbers are based on Averages, to determine amount of impairment. I know a tile setter that will generally blow a .16 (twice the legal limit) and still does beautiful work, and you cannot tell he is drunk. At the same time I know a young girl who can blow a .05 and be falling down. Anyone who has "detox" experience can tell stories of the guy who come in, nice suit, clear speech, and has a BAC "enough to stun an Elephant." I have heard that "evidence" is piling up that, yes, some people can handle their booze better than others, and it isn't just a matter of body weight. All I know is that I am not one of them. (Make me a cheap date.) I learned the hard way, trying to keep up with two guys who's livers were in shape from regular workouts. tschus pyotr -- pyotr filipivich Denial is not a river in Egypt, "Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some level." LTC Grossman. |
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I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Gunner
wrote back on Tue, 23 Nov 2004 03:49:31 GMT in misc.survivalism : Bull****, there is to a test to see if one is impared or not. I forget what the cops call it, but they do it everytime the think some one is ****ed up behind the wheel. Oh yeah....It's call the sobrity test, you know walk the line put your finger on your nose that sort of thing....It is not just for testing drunks. Many pill poppers potheads, and even folks who took "cold medicine" have been handed DUI's for failing the test. You can tell if some one is "geeking" on coke or crank just by watching them for ten mins. or so. (I'm sure you know what I mean.) cliff snipped n. Yes indeed. However if you have an inner ear infection, you will often fail the field sobriety test. God knows I conducted enough of them. If you have any number of neurological diseases, you will also fail, and will in many cases appear to be groked. Only blood or **** testing can be used to make the case of consumption and imparement, and only then based on human averages. Field test are good for "field test" to check impartment. They are also based on "rules of thumb" and the center of the bell curve. Outlier, like those with various medical conditions, don't match up with the expectations. Had a friend in college, an artist. Really quite good, (save he was colorblind, tended to draw grass using an orange pencil), but he had a constant tremor in his hands. How he could draw a straight line I've no idea, but the rest of the time he trembled like he'd had a couple pots of coffee too much. Gunner -- pyotr filipivich Denial is not a river in Egypt, "Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some level." LTC Grossman. |
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"Robin S." wrote in message . .. "Gunner" wrote in message ... Only blood or **** testing can be used to make the case of consumption and imparement, and only then based on human averages. The case for consumption has been made. You have yet to convince anyone of imparement. Do you see what I'm getting at, or are we on different pages? You are generally impaired for weeks if not months, and sometimes years after smoking pot heavily for any extended length of time. The impairment is purely psycological, but it feels real just the same.......... The first thing a heavy pot smoker wants when he has run out is to have more pot, and the object of getting another stash will usually take pretty close to top priority and consume most of his time and depending on his station in life, financial resources. And he is busy in the back of his mind, often conniving those around him as it is a very central part of his life. Dont fool yourself, think about how irratible you get once youve run out, and the priority you then place upon getting more....... Ever missed dinner at mom's place cause you was busy trying to find some weed--and if so, what excuse did ya give her ??? I spent 30 years inna daze from that ****, and I'm still not quite sure why I gave it all up about five years ago, after quitting off and on several times....I just know its very unlikely Im never gonna get stoned on pot again......... === But I'll tell you one thing, just give it up for two weeks and see then how you feel about things and life in general.......your just looking at the world through rose colored glasses if you cant at least do that much. The craving passes quickly, but unfortunately, life still sucks--and perhaps even more so, I dunno and simply dont care anymore...........I'm not going back there no way no how. -- SVL |
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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:42:15 -0500, North wrote:
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 03:47:07 GMT, Gunner said: On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:37:13 GMT, Ecnerwal wrote: Gunner Lied: And as Ive said..at the moment..there is no reliable way to tell if you are impared on the job, or not. Bull****, Gunner. Such tests _already_ exist. Typically somewhat like a video game, doing reaction-time testing, and perhaps other things depending on the nature of the job. Not able to do the task in the test, not allowed to operate the train, press, plane, whatever. Perhaps even get the breathalyzer, ****, blood, and/or other test - for cause - unless you want to be fired. Yes such tests do exist. They are expensive, time consuming and a number of them involve equipment that requires a lab tech to operate. And they are often wrong. Im an ex cop. I can "usually" tell if someone is on drugs and can often times tell you which one. Now to prove that to the courts or to the labor board will require at the minimum, a blood or **** test and a certified analysis from a certified lab. Please point out which common field test, other than the breathyliser will point out not only how much drugs by percentage are in your system, but which drug, and wether or not you are impaired or not. Even the breath test will not point out if you are impaired, only how much blood alcohol you have in your system. Those numbers are based on Averages, to determine amount of impairment. I know a tile setter that will generally blow a .16 (twice the legal limit) and still does beautiful work, and you cannot tell he is drunk. At the same time I know a young girl who can blow a .05 and be falling down. In article , Cliff wrote: A test for "impaired" would be rather simple but probably weed out lots of fundies & wingers due to their impaired judgement. Of course, actual safety (even from people impaired on legal drugs) does not fit with the actual agenda of the people who prefer expensive **** testing to get rid of all those employees who eat poppyseed bagels, who show up as heroin addicts on the cheesy tests. And those who eat poppy seed bagles simply ask that a further test be done, and the results will clear them of opiate useage. Dont know much about the subject, do you....? Gunner Under my insurance poilcy, all positives must be sent to a lab for confirmation. Budda bing. Exactly. There are a number of legal drugs, and natural substances that will give false positives, but are easily determined in a lab, using gas spectroanylasis. Not something the safety manager is likely to have in his office. Gunner "If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're around." "Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right before demode` (out of fashion). -Buddy Jordan 2001 |
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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:05:03 -0500, "Robin S."
wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message .. . Only blood or **** testing can be used to make the case of consumption and imparement, and only then based on human averages. The case for consumption has been made. You have yet to convince anyone of imparement. Do you see what I'm getting at, or are we on different pages? Huh? Gunner Regards, Robin "If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're around." "Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right before demode` (out of fashion). -Buddy Jordan 2001 |
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 05:51:35 GMT, pyotr filipivich
wrote: I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Gunner wrote back on Tue, 23 Nov 2004 03:49:31 GMT in misc.survivalism : Bull****, there is to a test to see if one is impared or not. I forget what the cops call it, but they do it everytime the think some one is ****ed up behind the wheel. Oh yeah....It's call the sobrity test, you know walk the line put your finger on your nose that sort of thing....It is not just for testing drunks. Many pill poppers potheads, and even folks who took "cold medicine" have been handed DUI's for failing the test. You can tell if some one is "geeking" on coke or crank just by watching them for ten mins. or so. (I'm sure you know what I mean.) cliff snipped n. Yes indeed. However if you have an inner ear infection, you will often fail the field sobriety test. God knows I conducted enough of them. If you have any number of neurological diseases, you will also fail, and will in many cases appear to be groked. Only blood or **** testing can be used to make the case of consumption and imparement, and only then based on human averages. Field test are good for "field test" to check impartment. They are also based on "rules of thumb" and the center of the bell curve. Outlier, like those with various medical conditions, don't match up with the expectations. Had a friend in college, an artist. Really quite good, (save he was colorblind, tended to draw grass using an orange pencil), but he had a constant tremor in his hands. How he could draw a straight line I've no idea, but the rest of the time he trembled like he'd had a couple pots of coffee too much. Exactly. While a field test gives the officer probable cause to arrest you for suspicion of being under the influence, when you are booked, you will be tested by machine or blood test. (I strongly suggest you ask for the blood test btw..far less likelyhood of error or the officer "adjusting" the BA to put you over the legal limit) A buddy ****ed off a cop one night. Hed had NOTHING to drink. When arrested, the officer claimed he had a BA of .09, which put him into the intoxicated catagory. Friend demanded a blood test and was refused. So immediately upon his 6 hour hold release, he went to a hospital, and had himself blood tested. When going to court, he was able to demonstrate to the judge that there were Zero amounts of alcohol in his blood stream. Then he pressed charges against the arresting officer and the department. He won of course and paid off his mortgage, and bought a nice little house and some acreage 200 miles away and lives a life of quiet retirement. Gunner "If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're around." "Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right before demode` (out of fashion). -Buddy Jordan 2001 |
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 05:51:35 GMT, pyotr filipivich
wrote: If you have any number of neurological diseases, you will also fail, and will in many cases appear to be groked. Only blood or **** testing can be used to make the case of consumption and imparement, and only then based on human averages. Field test are good for "field test" to check impartment. They are also based on "rules of thumb" and the center of the bell curve. Outlier, like those with various medical conditions, don't match up with the expectations. Had a friend in college, an artist. Really quite good, (save he was colorblind, tended to draw grass using an orange pencil), but he had a constant tremor in his hands. How he could draw a straight line I've no idea, but the rest of the time he trembled like he'd had a couple pots of coffee too much. oh oh..obvious sign of over usage of methamphetamine or withdrawal from opiates or long term usage of alcohol. Lets stand him on the side of a dark road then shine a Streamlight into his eyes...Geeze... pin points..ayup....a meth user for sure... Chuckle Gunner "If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're around." "Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right before demode` (out of fashion). -Buddy Jordan 2001 |
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"Gunner" wrote in message ... Friend demanded a blood test and was refused. So immediately upon his 6 hour hold release, he went to a hospital, and had himself blood tested. When going to court, he was able to demonstrate to the judge that there were Zero amounts of alcohol in his blood stream. Then he pressed charges against the arresting officer and the department. He won of course and paid off his mortgage, and bought a nice little house and some acreage 200 miles away and lives a life of quiet retirement. Sounds like a ****ing Liberal that was simply taking advantage of the situation.......... Are you sure he should still be your friend ??? -- SVL |
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 01:03:19 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message .. . Friend demanded a blood test and was refused. So immediately upon his 6 hour hold release, he went to a hospital, and had himself blood tested. When going to court, he was able to demonstrate to the judge that there were Zero amounts of alcohol in his blood stream. Then he pressed charges against the arresting officer and the department. He won of course and paid off his mortgage, and bought a nice little house and some acreage 200 miles away and lives a life of quiet retirement. Sounds like a ****ing Liberal that was simply taking advantage of the situation.......... Are you sure he should still be your friend ??? How so? When falsely arrested, one should make every attempt to make sure it never happens again, and to leave very clear message to the agency involved that they did a very Bad Thing © and that the officer involved gets his ass nailed soundly and properly. The reason Im a Former police officer, is that I saw way too much of this sort of thing, and simply would not be a part of it. But then..you were simply trolling, right? Gunner "If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're around." "Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right before demode` (out of fashion). -Buddy Jordan 2001 |
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In article , Gunner says...
When going to court, he was able to demonstrate to the judge that there were Zero amounts of alcohol in his blood stream. Then he pressed charges against the arresting officer and the department. He won of course and paid off his mortgage, and bought a nice little house and some acreage 200 miles away and lives a life of quiet retirement. Now *why* aren't you wailing and gnashing your teeth about the big bad lawyer who helped you buddy shut down the lying cops? Under "tort reform" he would have been SOL. Do cops lie? Your story tells the truth. Jim -- ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
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"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message ... "Robin S." wrote in message . .. "Gunner" wrote in message ... Only blood or **** testing can be used to make the case of consumption and imparement, and only then based on human averages. The case for consumption has been made. You have yet to convince anyone of imparement. Do you see what I'm getting at, or are we on different pages? You are generally impaired for weeks if not months, and sometimes years after smoking pot heavily for any extended length of time. The impairment is purely psycological, but it feels real just the same.......... The first thing a heavy pot smoker wants when he has run out is to have more pot, and the object of getting another stash will usually take pretty close to top priority and consume most of his time and depending on his station in life, financial resources. And he is busy in the back of his mind, often conniving those around him as it is a very central part of his life. Dont fool yourself, think about how irratible you get once youve run out, and the priority you then place upon getting more....... Ever missed dinner at mom's place cause you was busy trying to find some weed--and if so, what excuse did ya give her ??? I spent 30 years inna daze from that ****, and I'm still not quite sure why I gave it all up about five years ago, after quitting off and on several times....I just know its very unlikely Im never gonna get stoned on pot again......... === But I'll tell you one thing, just give it up for two weeks and see then how you feel about things and life in general.......your just looking at the world through rose colored glasses if you cant at least do that much. The craving passes quickly, but unfortunately, life still sucks--and perhaps even more so, I dunno and simply dont care anymore...........I'm not going back there no way no how. -- SVL You may have quit pot, but you have replaced it with beer. Which perpetual buzz is better? |
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In article , Gunner says...
How so? When falsely arrested, one should make every attempt to make sure it never happens again, And how does he do this? By using the tort system to spank the cops. Tort reform effectively removes that avenue. Besides, I recall one person here g who said (paraphrasing here) that honest people who are not committing crimes have no reason to worry about the criminal justice system. I also notice that your friend did not take advantage of his *second* amendment rights to fight this. But rather some of the hand other ones. gg Did your friend's lawyer get paid out of the settlement? Jim -- ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
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In article ,
Gunner wrote: Yes indeed. However if you have an inner ear infection, you will often fail the field sobriety test. God knows I conducted enough of them. If you have any number of neurological diseases, you will also fail, and will in many cases appear to be groked. And you should not be operating equipment which can endanger other people's lives, since you're not actually functioning. I really don't give a crap if the pilot of my flight is drunk, sleep deprived, sick, taking prescription drugs legally, taking prescription drugs illegally, or taking illegal drugs. If he shows up to work and cannot function, I want him grounded beforehand. -- Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by |
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In article ,
Gunner Lied: And as Ive said..at the moment..there is no reliable way to tell if you are impared on the job, or not. I (Ecnerwal) wrote: Bull****, Gunner. Such tests _already_ exist. Typically somewhat like a video game, doing reaction-time testing, and perhaps other things depending on the nature of the job. Not able to do the task in the test, not allowed to operate the train, press, plane, whatever. Perhaps even get the breathalyzer, ****, blood, and/or other test - for cause - unless you want to be fired. And now gunner says: Yes such tests do exist. So first you say they don't, and now you say they do. Flip-flopper. They are expensive, time consuming and a number of them involve equipment that requires a lab tech to operate. And then you start lying about the cost, time, complexity; and you previously lied about worker acceptance - most places that use such tests report that workers are far happier knowing that everyone around them has had to take exactly the same test they did to get onto the job site, and is functional _today_. The cost of a machine or set of machines (bought once) to test every worker every day is diddly compared to the cost (every single test) to "randomly" collect piddle. Most require nobody to operate them but the worker, and take only a minute or so. The information is freely available on the web. Please point out which common field test, other than the breathyliser will point out not only how much drugs by percentage are in your system, but which drug, and wether or not you are impaired or not. As I've said, I really don't care what you're on, or if you're on nothing at all - the _impairment_ test has no need to determine that. If the test shows that you are _impaired_, you can either get fired on the spot, or take a sick day and go get any number of tests to show exactly what you are or are not on when you fail the test. And you _don't_ get to go to work while you are a danger to others, regardless of whether you are a danger to others because you didn't sleep last night, or you got drunk last night, or you got drunk this morning, or you have a legal prescription for oxycontin, or you had your maid get you oxycontin illegally. I really don't feel a bit better about getting killed by some guy who's "just sleep deprived" or "just drunk" or "just has an ear infection" than I do about getting killed my some guy who's "stoned". Personally, I stick to caffeine, theobromine, and a very small amount of ethanol in the appropriate time relationship to working. But that does not mean I have any interest in working at places which are more interested in "reefer madness" than they are in "worker safety". -- Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by |
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#24
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"Bill Roberto" wrote in message ink.net... "PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message ... "Robin S." wrote in message . .. "Gunner" wrote in message ... Only blood or **** testing can be used to make the case of consumption and imparement, and only then based on human averages. The case for consumption has been made. You have yet to convince anyone of imparement. Do you see what I'm getting at, or are we on different pages? You are generally impaired for weeks if not months, and sometimes years after smoking pot heavily for any extended length of time. The impairment is purely psycological, but it feels real just the same.......... The first thing a heavy pot smoker wants when he has run out is to have more pot, and the object of getting another stash will usually take pretty close to top priority and consume most of his time and depending on his station in life, financial resources. And he is busy in the back of his mind, often conniving those around him as it is a very central part of his life. Dont fool yourself, think about how irratible you get once youve run out, and the priority you then place upon getting more....... Ever missed dinner at mom's place cause you was busy trying to find some weed--and if so, what excuse did ya give her ??? I spent 30 years inna daze from that ****, and I'm still not quite sure why I gave it all up about five years ago, after quitting off and on several times....I just know its very unlikely Im never gonna get stoned on pot again......... === But I'll tell you one thing, just give it up for two weeks and see then how you feel about things and life in general.......your just looking at the world through rose colored glasses if you cant at least do that much. The craving passes quickly, but unfortunately, life still sucks--and perhaps even more so, I dunno and simply dont care anymore...........I'm not going back there no way no how. -- SVL You may have quit pot, but you have replaced it with beer. Which perpetual buzz is better? Hi, Bill. Actually, I dont drink anywhere near as much as I used to either. -- SVL |
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#25
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"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message ... "Bill Roberto" wrote in message ink.net... Hi, Bill. Actually, I dont drink anywhere near as much as I used to either. -- SVL For the best buzz try morning exercise. Doesn't matter what the activity as long as you break a sweat and give your heart a good beating at least 20 minutes a day. |
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#26
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"Bill Roberto" wrote in message nk.net... "PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message ... "Bill Roberto" wrote in message ink.net... For the best buzz try morning exercise. Doesn't matter what the activity as long as you break a sweat and give your heart a good beating at least 20 minutes a day. Thats what I keep the wife around for......... -- SVL |
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#27
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:38:27 GMT, Ecnerwal
wrote: In article , Gunner Lied: And as Ive said..at the moment..there is no reliable way to tell if you are impared on the job, or not. I (Ecnerwal) wrote: Bull****, Gunner. Such tests _already_ exist. Typically somewhat like a video game, doing reaction-time testing, and perhaps other things depending on the nature of the job. Not able to do the task in the test, not allowed to operate the train, press, plane, whatever. Perhaps even get the breathalyzer, ****, blood, and/or other test - for cause - unless you want to be fired. And now gunner says: Yes such tests do exist. So first you say they don't, and now you say they do. Flip-flopper. Chuckle..we are talking about different tests. Your claim that cheap easily operated tests exist that can test for everything. They dont. It takes a work up in a lab to catch everything. They are expensive, time consuming and a number of them involve equipment that requires a lab tech to operate. And then you start lying about the cost, time, complexity; and you previously lied about worker acceptance - most places that use such tests report that workers are far happier knowing that everyone around them has had to take exactly the same test they did to get onto the job site, and is functional _today_. The cost of a machine or set of machines (bought once) to test every worker every day is diddly compared to the cost (every single test) to "randomly" collect piddle. Most require nobody to operate them but the worker, and take only a minute or so. The information is freely available on the web. Mass spectrographs are easy to use and cheap? Interesting. Btw..I notice your repeated use of the term "liar". Live in California? Want to go dancing in your parking lot? Keep using it. Ill give you the option of open hand, cold steel or blued steel. Thats something I dont much care for, nor do you see me using the term. Honor is more than just a buzzword with me. Just a heads up. Please point out which common field test, other than the breathyliser will point out not only how much drugs by percentage are in your system, but which drug, and wether or not you are impaired or not. As I've said, I really don't care what you're on, or if you're on nothing at all - the _impairment_ test has no need to determine that. If the test shows that you are _impaired_, you can either get fired on the spot, or take a sick day and go get any number of tests to show exactly what you are or are not on when you fail the test. And you _don't_ get to go to work while you are a danger to others, regardless of whether you are a danger to others because you didn't sleep last night, or you got drunk last night, or you got drunk this morning, or you have a legal prescription for oxycontin, or you had your maid get you oxycontin illegally. I really don't feel a bit better about getting killed by some guy who's "just sleep deprived" or "just drunk" or "just has an ear infection" than I do about getting killed my some guy who's "stoned". For some reason you seem to think that I am not in favor of **** testing???? I was the person that originally agreed with it and stated my reasons why. If we are in agreement that its a good thing, then why are you bitching? Personally, I stick to caffeine, theobromine, and a very small amount of ethanol in the appropriate time relationship to working. But that does not mean I have any interest in working at places which are more interested in "reefer madness" than they are in "worker safety". Shrug...sounds to me like you are mixed up. You are all in favor of some kind of testing from the 2nd paragraph up...yet you are against effective testing. I do wish you would make up your mind. Gunner "If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're around." "Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right before demode` (out of fashion). -Buddy Jordan 2001 |
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#28
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On 23 Nov 2004 05:50:30 -0800, jim rozen
wrote: In article , Gunner says... How so? When falsely arrested, one should make every attempt to make sure it never happens again, And how does he do this? By using the tort system to spank the cops. Tort reform effectively removes that avenue. Besides, I recall one person here g who said (paraphrasing here) that honest people who are not committing crimes have no reason to worry about the criminal justice system. Ayup. And personally I wasnt amused by that large a settlement. After all it is the tax payers who ultimately payed. I would have been happy to have the cop in question simply executed and the chief of police flogged in public. I also notice that your friend did not take advantage of his *second* amendment rights to fight this. But rather some of the hand other ones. gg Of course. The Boxes of Liberty are to be properly applied. 1. soap box 2. ballot gox 3. Jury box 4. Cartridge box Did your friend's lawyer get paid out of the settlement? Jim Yep. A fixed rate of 12% of the award. I think the settlement was somewhere around $200,000 Gunner "If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're around." "Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right before demode` (out of fashion). -Buddy Jordan 2001 |
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On 23 Nov 2004 05:42:13 -0800, jim rozen
wrote: In article , Gunner says... When going to court, he was able to demonstrate to the judge that there were Zero amounts of alcohol in his blood stream. Then he pressed charges against the arresting officer and the department. He won of course and paid off his mortgage, and bought a nice little house and some acreage 200 miles away and lives a life of quiet retirement. Now *why* aren't you wailing and gnashing your teeth about the big bad lawyer who helped you buddy shut down the lying cops? Under "tort reform" he would have been SOL. SOL? No...tort reform does not prevent settlements. It just limits the dollar amounts. Do cops lie? Your story tells the truth. Jim Of course some do. Others dont. Just like regular folks. Its when it effects peoples lives that they are sworn to protect, that it becomes a serious issue. Gunner "If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're around." "Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right before demode` (out of fashion). -Buddy Jordan 2001 |
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#30
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Gunner wrote in message . ..
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 05:51:35 GMT, pyotr filipivich wrote: If you have any number of neurological diseases, you will also fail, and will in many cases appear to be groked. Only blood or **** testing can be used to make the case of consumption and imparement, and only then based on human averages. Field test are good for "field test" to check impartment. They are also based on "rules of thumb" and the center of the bell curve. Outlier, like those with various medical conditions, don't match up with the expectations. Had a friend in college, an artist. Really quite good, (save he was colorblind, tended to draw grass using an orange pencil), but he had a constant tremor in his hands. How he could draw a straight line I've no idea, but the rest of the time he trembled like he'd had a couple pots of coffee too much. oh oh..obvious sign of over usage of methamphetamine or withdrawal from opiates or long term usage of alcohol. Also, signs of early Parkinson's Disease, particularly the tremblying when relaxed and straight, steady, confident strokes when doing something. Also note that many other Parkinson symptoms could lead an inadequately trained field officer into a serious mistake...due to the Ataxia and resultant staggering gait plus a total inability to walk 'Heel to Toe.' Fortunately a hospital blood test will quickly clear up the situation, but by that time you have already been handcuffed and your car towed away! The next step is, of course, to call your lawyer and sue (after getting your car returned). If you have been heavily drinking and also suffer from Parkinson's Disease, that's another issue and you deserve what is coming to you. (Before jumping to the conclusion that Parkinisons is a geriatric disorder, recall that both Michael J. Fox and Janet Reno suffer from it, plus many others who conceal the fact.) Harry C. |
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:00:41 GMT, Gunner
wrote: oh oh..obvious sign of over usage of methamphetamine or withdrawal from opiates or long term usage of alcohol. Lets stand him on the side of a dark road then shine a Streamlight into his eyes...Geeze... pin points..ayup....a meth user for sure... Sure glad you ain't still on the force....ya got it bass-ackwards. Should be: ...big as saucers, slow response to light...a meth user for sure...(well, dunno 'bout "for sure"). Pinpoint pupils would indicate possible depressant intox. http://www.ni-cor.com/ni-corsignsand...diction.ht ml Chuckle Chuckle indeed. HTH - DW |
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 16:19:10 GMT, "Bill Roberto"
wrote: "PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message ... "Bill Roberto" wrote in message ink.net... Hi, Bill. Actually, I dont drink anywhere near as much as I used to either. -- SVL For the best buzz try morning exercise. Doesn't matter what the activity as long as you break a sweat and give your heart a good beating at least 20 minutes a day. Endorphines. The brains answer to super heroin. G Gunner "If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're around." "Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right before demode` (out of fashion). -Buddy Jordan 2001 |
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#35
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"Gunner" wrote in message ... On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 16:19:10 GMT, "Bill Roberto" wrote: "PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message ... "Bill Roberto" wrote in message ink.net... Hi, Bill. Actually, I dont drink anywhere near as much as I used to either. -- SVL For the best buzz try morning exercise. Doesn't matter what the activity as long as you break a sweat and give your heart a good beating at least 20 minutes a day. Endorphines. The brains answer to super heroin. G Gunner Yup, just as addicting. How's it going Gunner? |
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:31:30 GMT, Gunner
wrote: On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:52:57 GMT, (DW) wrote: On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:00:41 GMT, Gunner wrote: oh oh..obvious sign of over usage of methamphetamine or withdrawal from opiates or long term usage of alcohol. Lets stand him on the side of a dark road then shine a Streamlight into his eyes...Geeze... pin points..ayup....a meth user for sure... Sure glad you ain't still on the force....ya got it bass-ackwards. Should be: ...big as saucers, slow response to light...a meth user for sure...(well, dunno 'bout "for sure"). Pinpoint pupils would indicate possible depressant intox. http://www.ni-cor.com/ni-corsignsand...diction.ht ml Chuckle Chuckle indeed. HTH - DW I see you have never done a roadside sobriety test. Virtually every subject will stare at on coming headlights, which will pinpoint pupils. Hence the need to be sure your subject is facing away from the traffic stream and the eyes have a chance to open. OK Cliff g, go back and re-read your post...no, n/m, here it is: Lets stand him on the side of a dark road then shine a Streamlight into his eyes...Geeze... pin points..ayup....a meth user for sure... The way you state it implies that meth users will_immediately_have pinpoint pupils, when in fact, it's the reaction time that's the indicator. Details, details details G No, accuracy, accuracy, accuracy. If you'd said "slow reaction to light...ayup...", etc., I'd have no issue. - DW |
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I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Gunner
wrote back on Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:09:41 GMT in misc.survivalism : Actually, I dont drink anywhere near as much as I used to either. -- SVL For the best buzz try morning exercise. Doesn't matter what the activity as long as you break a sweat and give your heart a good beating at least 20 minutes a day. We're told we need to get our pulse rate up and the blood flowing for twenty minutes. That's why I start the day with a cigarettes and a cup of coffee. There is something else which does the same, but this is a family newsgroup. Endorphines. The brains answer to super heroin. Oooh, yessss. -- pyotr filipivich Old farts these days - no like when I was a boy. We used to have us Real Geezers in those days. Now, they'll let anybody with a little gray hair be an old fart. |
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#38
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"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message ... You are generally impaired for weeks if not months, and sometimes years after smoking pot heavily for any extended length of time. But that's the issue that Gunner is failing to recognise (or acknowledge). Just because someone has been using a substance doesn't mean they use it in a chronic fashion or are addicted. Lots of people drink - doesn't mean they're alcoholics. Regards, Robin |
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#39
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 03:47:07 GMT, Gunner
wrote: On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:37:13 GMT, Ecnerwal wrote: Gunner Lied: And as Ive said..at the moment..there is no reliable way to tell if you are impared on the job, or not. Bull****, Gunner. Such tests _already_ exist. Typically somewhat like a video game, doing reaction-time testing, and perhaps other things depending on the nature of the job. Not able to do the task in the test, not allowed to operate the train, press, plane, whatever. Perhaps even get the breathalyzer, ****, blood, and/or other test - for cause - unless you want to be fired. Yes such tests do exist. They are expensive, time consuming and a number of them involve equipment that requires a lab tech to operate. Sort of like an IQ test for wingers. Or a sobriety test needed to start your car. Watch the pretty lights, push the pretty buttons .... to complicated, right? And they are often wrong. Sort of like all the false positives for a drug test, right? Im an ex cop. I can "usually" tell if someone is on drugs and can often times tell you which one. Better than any such test I'm certain, right? Now to prove that to the courts or to the labor board will require at the minimum, a blood or **** test and a certified analysis from a certified lab. Just stand there like a cop. Lie. Please point out which common field test, other than the breathyliser will point out not only how much drugs by percentage are in your system, but which drug, and wether or not you are impaired or not. And this has what to do with your impaired judgements? Even the breath test will not point out if you are impaired, only how much blood alcohol you have in your system. Those numbers are based on Averages, to determine amount of impairment. I know a tile setter that will generally blow a .16 (twice the legal limit) and still does beautiful work, and you cannot tell he is drunk. At the same time I know a young girl who can blow a .05 and be falling down. So you don't really care about impaired ...... just your religion being forced on others ....... [ A test for "impaired" would be rather simple but probably weed out lots of fundies & wingers due to their impaired judgement. ] See how simple this test was? -- Cliff |
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#40
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 05:59:40 GMT, pyotr filipivich
wrote: Theres a local plumbing company which advertises on the radio "we'll seen a trained experience, drug free employee" to your location If you want to work for such a company, give us a call, otherwise, go work for someone else. On the one hand, I don't like mandatory drug testing, as I don't do drugs. OTOH, it does mean I'm working with other people similarly inclined. Why aren't you posting to a plumbing group then? Winger's Disease? What's wrong with being an honest plumber? -- Cliff |
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