Another off-the-wall tip from my old manufacturing editor's resources:

Electrically-conductive epoxies are showing up in a lot of industrial
applications, replacing solder. They may solve some problems for
hobbyists, too.

At the rist of sounding like a shill for MasterBond (again), I'll
suggest the following info from this epoxy specialist:

https://tinyurl.com/yda8bbmc

They have a good reputation.

--
Ed Huntress

On 2/27/2018 8:38 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
Another off-the-wall tip from my old manufacturing editor's resources:

Electrically-conductive epoxies are showing up in a lot of industrial
applications, replacing solder. They may solve some problems for
hobbyists, too.

At the rist of sounding like a shill for MasterBond (again), I'll
suggest the following info from this epoxy specialist:

https://tinyurl.com/yda8bbmc

They have a good reputation.


Thermally conductive epoxies are also very useful for small heat sinks
in odd applications. Arctic Silver comes to mind.

On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 10:38:26 AM UTC-5, Ed Huntress wrote:
Another off-the-wall tip from my old manufacturing editor's resources:

Electrically-conductive epoxies are showing up in a lot of industrial
applications, replacing solder. They may solve some problems for
hobbyists, too.



Here is another off the wall tip. When you clean the surface before using the epoxy' do not use a citrus based cleaner. I can not remember it Very well, but we used silver filled epoxy to glue a ground to the rocket motor. Very thing worked well when we used 1-1-1 Trich. But in a change to a citrus based solvent we ran into problems in just that one case. Every seemed good but about 24 hours the ground would become unattached. The factory people that had selected the citrus based solvent essentially said use the damn citrus solvent. It is a universal solvent. And really put the pressure on. But one of the gov engineers and I ran some tests and the damn grounds would just fall off after a long time.

My manager said to stop doing tests and that he could have me fired for running tests like that. And I said go ahead and fire me. My manager and I really got along well so he softened that to " well tell me what the test results are." Eventually the factory engineers gave up and we did not use the citrus based solvent in that one case. I do not know if it was just that the silver filled epoxy had less strength or if the silver and citrus based solvents were not compatible.

Dan

On 2/27/2018 7:01 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 10:38:26 AM UTC-5, Ed Huntress wrote:
Another off-the-wall tip from my old manufacturing editor's resources:

Electrically-conductive epoxies are showing up in a lot of industrial
applications, replacing solder. They may solve some problems for
hobbyists, too.



Here is another off the wall tip. When you clean the surface before using the epoxy' do not use a citrus based cleaner. I can not remember it Very well, but we used silver filled epoxy to glue a ground to the rocket motor. Very thing worked well when we used 1-1-1 Trich. But in a change to a citrus based solvent we ran into problems in just that one case. Every seemed good but about 24 hours the ground would become unattached. The factory people that had selected the citrus based solvent essentially said use the damn citrus solvent. It is a universal solvent. And really put the pressure on. But one of the gov engineers and I ran some tests and the damn grounds would just fall off after a long time.

My manager said to stop doing tests and that he could have me fired for running tests like that. And I said go ahead and fire me. My manager and I really got along well so he softened that to " well tell me what the test results are." Eventually the factory engineers gave up and we did not use the citrus based solvent in that one case. I do not know if it was just that the silver filled epoxy had less strength or if the silver and citrus based solvents were not compatible.

Dan


I worked at a small company that built ultrasonic transducers.
The transducers were a 2" ceramic piezo bonded with epoxy to
a 1/16th inch aluminum disc.
After lapping the two surfaces together using a figure 8 lapping
motion the pieces were rinsed in water, lapped some more, rinsed
in acetone, this was repeated a couple times and then the pieces
were left in the acetone tray to prevent any oxidation of the
aluminum, as prep was made to install the epoxy.
We drove these at 660kHz with 1000 watt or pulses 250 watts
continuous. We drove never had a bond separation, but we
did burn up a few.
Mikek

On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 17:01:24 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 10:38:26 AM UTC-5, Ed Huntress wrote:
Another off-the-wall tip from my old manufacturing editor's resources:

Electrically-conductive epoxies are showing up in a lot of industrial
applications, replacing solder. They may solve some problems for
hobbyists, too.



Here is another off the wall tip. When you clean the surface before using the epoxy' do not use a citrus based cleaner. I can not remember it Very well, but we used silver filled epoxy to glue a ground to the rocket motor. Very thing worked well when we used 1-1-1 Trich. But in a change to a citrus based solvent we ran into problems in just that one case. Every seemed good but about 24 hours the ground would become unattached. The factory people that had selected the citrus based solvent essentially said use the damn citrus solvent. It is a universal solvent. And really put the pressure on. But one of the gov engineers and I ran some tests and the damn grounds would just fall off after a long time.

My manager said to stop doing tests and that he could have me fired for running tests like that. And I said go ahead and fire me. My manager and I really got along well so he softened that to " well tell me what the test results are." Eventually the factory engineers gave up and we did not use the citrus based solvent in that one case. I do not know if it was just that the silver filled epoxy had less strength or if the silver and citrus based solvents were not compatible.

Dan

That's a good point. The problem in using epoxy to bond metal has been
the same problem for the past 50 years. Actually, it's two problems.

One is the difficulty of getting chemical bonds on metal, and the
other has been mechanical compatabilty of the adhesives and metals,
starting with the thermal expansion coefficients between metals and
epoxies, and including the behavior of epoxies when joints are loaded
in peel and cleavage.

It's a long story but the conclusion is that both problems have been
solved. The trouble with it in a practical sense is that you have to
understand the factors involved if you're going to make strong,
long-lasting joints. Either that, or you're going to need experts to
engineer the bonds for you. The latter is what the aircraft companies,
and now the car companies, have done. The high-end Buicks and Ford
F150s are half glued together now, and the joints are stronger than
the welds and mechanical fasters used before. When you're bonding
high-strength aluminum, there's almost no way to maintain the strength
of the parent metal in a welded joint.

These electrically conductive epoxies available now are engineered to
be much more versatile and reliable than anything available in the
past. If you follow instructions, you're very likely to have
successful applications, without engineering each joint individually.

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 28 Feb 2018 06:54:55 -0600, amdx wrote:

On 2/27/2018 7:01 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 10:38:26 AM UTC-5, Ed Huntress wrote:
Another off-the-wall tip from my old manufacturing editor's resources:

Electrically-conductive epoxies are showing up in a lot of industrial
applications, replacing solder. They may solve some problems for
hobbyists, too.



Here is another off the wall tip. When you clean the surface before using the epoxy' do not use a citrus based cleaner. I can not remember it Very well, but we used silver filled epoxy to glue a ground to the rocket motor. Very thing worked well when we used 1-1-1 Trich. But in a change to a citrus based solvent we ran into problems in just that one case. Every seemed good but about 24 hours the ground would become unattached. The factory people that had selected the citrus based solvent essentially said use the damn citrus solvent. It is a universal solvent. And really put the pressure on. But one of the gov engineers and I ran some tests and the damn grounds would just fall off after a long time.

My manager said to stop doing tests and that he could have me fired for running tests like that. And I said go ahead and fire me. My manager and I really got along well so he softened that to " well tell me what the test results are." Eventually the factory engineers gave up and we did not use the citrus based solvent in that one case. I do not know if it was just that the silver filled epoxy had less strength or if the silver and citrus based solvents were not compatible.

Dan


I worked at a small company that built ultrasonic transducers.
The transducers were a 2" ceramic piezo bonded with epoxy to
a 1/16th inch aluminum disc.
After lapping the two surfaces together using a figure 8 lapping
motion the pieces were rinsed in water, lapped some more, rinsed
in acetone, this was repeated a couple times and then the pieces
were left in the acetone tray to prevent any oxidation of the
aluminum, as prep was made to install the epoxy.
We drove these at 660kHz with 1000 watt or pulses 250 watts
continuous. We drove never had a bond separation, but we
did burn up a few.
Mikek

That's interesting. By keeping the aluminum piece covered with
acetone, you're accomplishing something similar to the "scratch-in"
method of prepping metals for adhesive bonding. Aluminum, stainless
steel and copper alloys are a bear to bond because they form oxides
literally within seconds after they're exposed to air.

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 16:48:42 -0700, Bob La Londe wrote:

Thermally conductive epoxies are also very useful for small heat sinks
in odd applications. Arctic Silver comes to mind.


I was familair with several other Arctic Silver products (Thermal
paste/greases for use with CPUs/heat sinks - having used several of them
over the years; but I had somehow completely missed that they also made
an epoxy product (different application than thermal grease - but good
to know for instances where epoxy is indicated) Thanks for pointing it
out.



--
Email address is a Spam trap.

On 2/28/2018 8:43 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 17:01:24 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 10:38:26 AM UTC-5, Ed Huntress wrote:
Another off-the-wall tip from my old manufacturing editor's resources:

Electrically-conductive epoxies are showing up in a lot of industrial
applications, replacing solder. They may solve some problems for
hobbyists, too.



Here is another off the wall tip. When you clean the surface before using the epoxy' do not use a citrus based cleaner. I can not remember it Very well, but we used silver filled epoxy to glue a ground to the rocket motor. Very thing worked well when we used 1-1-1 Trich. But in a change to a citrus based solvent we ran into problems in just that one case. Every seemed good but about 24 hours the ground would become unattached. The factory people that had selected the citrus based solvent essentially said use the damn citrus solvent. It is a universal solvent. And really put the pressure on. But one of the gov engineers and I ran some tests and the damn grounds would just fall off after a long time.

My manager said to stop doing tests and that he could have me fired for running tests like that. And I said go ahead and fire me. My manager and I really got along well so he softened that to " well tell me what the test results are." Eventually the factory engineers gave up and we did not use the citrus based solvent in that one case. I do not know if it was just that the silver filled epoxy had less strength or if the silver and citrus based solvents were not compatible.

Dan

That's a good point. The problem in using epoxy to bond metal has been
the same problem for the past 50 years. Actually, it's two problems.

One is the difficulty of getting chemical bonds on metal, and the
other has been mechanical compatabilty of the adhesives and metals,
starting with the thermal expansion coefficients between metals and
epoxies, and including the behavior of epoxies when joints are loaded
in peel and cleavage.


I was told the epoxy we used was used in the making of IC chips, this
was 25 yrs ago. It came in 12" x 12" sheets and had to be kept on dry
ice. The thickness, I'm hazy on, 0.004" to .008" thick.
When the aluminum, epoxy and ceramic were assembled they were put on a
large solid block of steel that had been preheated to (Hazy again) 155*F
and clamped with 18 psi.
The heat expanded both the aluminum and the ceramic, (by different
amounts). When the transducer cooled you could see the aluminum was
concaved a slight amount because of the different expansion rates and
being bonded and then cooled.
Heating or cooling one of the transducers would give it enough charge
to draw a good spark or give someone an unexpected shock!

Mikek





It's a long story but the conclusion is that both problems have been
solved. The trouble with it in a practical sense is that you have to
understand the factors involved if you're going to make strong,
long-lasting joints. Either that, or you're going to need experts to
engineer the bonds for you. The latter is what the aircraft companies,
and now the car companies, have done. The high-end Buicks and Ford
F150s are half glued together now, and the joints are stronger than
the welds and mechanical fasters used before. When you're bonding
high-strength aluminum, there's almost no way to maintain the strength
of the parent metal in a welded joint.

These electrically conductive epoxies available now are engineered to
be much more versatile and reliable than anything available in the
past. If you follow instructions, you're very likely to have
successful applications, without engineering each joint individually.

On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 17:01:24 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 10:38:26 AM UTC-5, Ed Huntress wrote:
Another off-the-wall tip from my old manufacturing editor's resources:

Electrically-conductive epoxies are showing up in a lot of industrial
applications, replacing solder. They may solve some problems for
hobbyists, too.



Here is another off the wall tip. When you clean the surface before using the epoxy' do not use a citrus based cleaner. I can not remember it Very well, but we used silver filled epoxy to glue a ground to the rocket motor. Very thing worked well when we used 1-1-1 Trich. But in a change to a citrus based solvent we ran into problems in just that one case. Every seemed good but about 24 hours the ground would become unattached. The factory people that had selected the citrus based solvent essentially said use the damn citrus solvent. It is a universal solvent. And really put the pressure on. But one of the gov engineers and I ran some tests and the damn grounds would just fall off after a long time.

My manager said to stop doing tests and that he could have me fired for running tests like that. And I said go ahead and fire me. My manager and I really got along well so he softened that to " well tell me what the test results are." Eventually the factory engineers gave up and we did not use the citrus based solvent in that one case. I do not know if it was just that the silver filled epoxy had less strength or if the silver and citrus based solvents were not compatible.

Dan

AH!!! Thank you for that! I had an application last week where I
had to JB Weld a loose carbon fiber pulley to a steel shaft and it
simply didnt hold. And I used a citrus based cleaner.

I ultimately used a good quality "super glue" to get it to stick.

Much obliged!!

Gunner

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Saturday, March 3, 2018 at 6:39:09 PM UTC-5, Gunner Asch wrote:
..


AH!!! Thank you for that! I had an application last week where I
had to JB Weld a loose carbon fiber pulley to a steel shaft and it
simply didnt hold. And I used a citrus based cleaner.

I ultimately used a good quality "super glue" to get it to stick.

Much obliged!!

Gunner

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

The citrus based solvent has its uses. Does not evaporate quickly so good on dried grease, old paint etc. But not great for cleaning before gluing.

Dan

Thick and thin film modules have been using forms for decades.
Now with the complex issues of solder silver, gold and copper in epoxy
does a good job. Spot welding is still in use on tiny stuff.

Martin

On 2/27/2018 9:38 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
Another off-the-wall tip from my old manufacturing editor's resources:

Electrically-conductive epoxies are showing up in a lot of industrial
applications, replacing solder. They may solve some problems for
hobbyists, too.

At the rist of sounding like a shill for MasterBond (again), I'll
suggest the following info from this epoxy specialist:

https://tinyurl.com/yda8bbmc

They have a good reputation.

" writes:


The citrus based solvent has its uses. Does not evaporate
quickly so good on dried grease, old paint etc. But not great
for cleaning before gluing.

Dan


I use starting fluid (OUTDOORS..) for cleaning that leaves no residue.


--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 13:06:04 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

" writes:


The citrus based solvent has its uses. Does not evaporate
quickly so good on dried grease, old paint etc. But not great
for cleaning before gluing.

Dan


I use starting fluid (OUTDOORS..) for cleaning that leaves no residue.

I don't know what the different brands may contain (I use straight
ether for starting), but avoid anything that contains acetone.

Pure acetone is great for adhesive prepping, but getting your hands on
pure acetone is not easy. The stuff they sell in cans in hardware
stores is almost always recycled from industrial users, and it usually
contains some oil. It has been the source of many bonding failures by
home boat builders.

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 09:24:42 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 13:06:04 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

" writes:


The citrus based solvent has its uses. Does not evaporate
quickly so good on dried grease, old paint etc. But not great
for cleaning before gluing.

Dan


I use starting fluid (OUTDOORS..) for cleaning that leaves no residue.

I don't know what the different brands may contain (I use straight
ether for starting), but avoid anything that contains acetone.

Pure acetone is great for adhesive prepping, but getting your hands on
pure acetone is not easy. The stuff they sell in cans in hardware
stores is almost always recycled from industrial users, and it usually
contains some oil. It has been the source of many bonding failures by
home boat builders.
Final wash with methyl hydrate or ethanol - or as the previous
poster noted - ether.

BUT some starting fluids ALSO contain an oil to reduce damage from
"wash down" when starting an engine -- -

On 4/25/2018 8:24 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 13:06:04 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

" writes:


The citrus based solvent has its uses. Does not evaporate
quickly so good on dried grease, old paint etc. But not great
for cleaning before gluing.

Dan


I use starting fluid (OUTDOORS..) for cleaning that leaves no residue.

I don't know what the different brands may contain (I use straight
ether for starting), but avoid anything that contains acetone.

Pure acetone is great for adhesive prepping, but getting your hands on
pure acetone is not easy. The stuff they sell in cans in hardware
stores is almost always recycled from industrial users, and it usually
contains some oil. It has been the source of many bonding failures by
home boat builders.

After reading your post Ed, I looked at the can of acetone that I have.
It does not have an ingredients list, insinuating "pure" acetone.
There's no statement of purity either.
I've had some paint failures that I blamed on poor prep techniques.
Using acetone for prep often allows me to wipe the old coat of paint
away without scratching the part. I've gone back to using alcohol to
wipe the part down before painting. Oil in acetone could explain it.
I'm going to contact the manufacturer on the can for comment since I
bought it at the Borg. Stay tuned...

Steve

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 10:03:37 -0500, shiggins1
wrote:

On 4/25/2018 8:24 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 13:06:04 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

" writes:


The citrus based solvent has its uses. Does not evaporate
quickly so good on dried grease, old paint etc. But not great
for cleaning before gluing.

Dan


I use starting fluid (OUTDOORS..) for cleaning that leaves no residue.

I don't know what the different brands may contain (I use straight
ether for starting), but avoid anything that contains acetone.

Pure acetone is great for adhesive prepping, but getting your hands on
pure acetone is not easy. The stuff they sell in cans in hardware
stores is almost always recycled from industrial users, and it usually
contains some oil. It has been the source of many bonding failures by
home boat builders.

After reading your post Ed, I looked at the can of acetone that I have.
It does not have an ingredients list, insinuating "pure" acetone.
There's no statement of purity either.
I've had some paint failures that I blamed on poor prep techniques.
Using acetone for prep often allows me to wipe the old coat of paint
away without scratching the part. I've gone back to using alcohol to
wipe the part down before painting. Oil in acetone could explain it.
I'm going to contact the manufacturer on the can for comment since I
bought it at the Borg. Stay tuned...

Steve

Here's an interesting claim from TAP plastics -- "Our Acetone is
virgin acetone and is not made from recycled acetone. It does not
contain any residual waxes or oils."

https://www.tapplastics.com/product/...tap_acetone/11

Acetone sold in hardware stores is almost always "industrial grade,"
which is the stuff that contains small amounts of contaminants.

Apparently there are ways to recycle it to remove all of the
non-volatiles, but it's pretty well known in the boatbuilding business
that hardware-store acetone is corrupted with non-volatiles,
especially lubricating oils, and that it can't be used to prep cured
polyester resins for laminating. When surfacing polyester cures (and
all of the resin sold in hardware stores is surfacing resin) a waxy
layer rises to the surface to seal it from the air, and that gets into
acetone, too, when you wipe the layer down to laminate on top of it.

(There's no need for it with epoxy prep; just wash with warm water and
detergent, like real TSP.)

It's too bad, because acetone is a great cleaning solvent, and safer
than a lot of others. It's just that the common grade can present
problems when you need a really clean surface.

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 10:03:37 -0500, shiggins1
wrote:

On 4/25/2018 8:24 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 13:06:04 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

" writes:


The citrus based solvent has its uses. Does not evaporate
quickly so good on dried grease, old paint etc. But not great
for cleaning before gluing.
Dan

I use starting fluid (OUTDOORS..) for cleaning that leaves no residue.
I don't know what the different brands may contain (I use straight
ether for starting), but avoid anything that contains acetone.

Pure acetone is great for adhesive prepping, but getting your hands on
pure acetone is not easy. The stuff they sell in cans in hardware
stores is almost always recycled from industrial users, and it usually
contains some oil. It has been the source of many bonding failures by
home boat builders.

After reading your post Ed, I looked at the can of acetone that I have.
It does not have an ingredients list, insinuating "pure" acetone.
There's no statement of purity either.
I've had some paint failures that I blamed on poor prep techniques.
Using acetone for prep often allows me to wipe the old coat of paint
away without scratching the part. I've gone back to using alcohol to
wipe the part down before painting. Oil in acetone could explain it.
I'm going to contact the manufacturer on the can for comment since I
bought it at the Borg. Stay tuned...

Steve

Here's an interesting claim from TAP plastics -- "Our Acetone is
virgin acetone and is not made from recycled acetone. It does not
contain any residual waxes or oils."

https://www.tapplastics.com/product/...tap_acetone/11

Acetone sold in hardware stores is almost always "industrial grade,"
which is the stuff that contains small amounts of contaminants.

Apparently there are ways to recycle it to remove all of the
non-volatiles, but it's pretty well known in the boatbuilding business
that hardware-store acetone is corrupted with non-volatiles,
especially lubricating oils, and that it can't be used to prep cured
polyester resins for laminating. When surfacing polyester cures (and
all of the resin sold in hardware stores is surfacing resin) a waxy
layer rises to the surface to seal it from the air, and that gets into
acetone, too, when you wipe the layer down to laminate on top of it.

(There's no need for it with epoxy prep; just wash with warm water and
detergent, like real TSP.)

It's too bad, because acetone is a great cleaning solvent, and safer
than a lot of others. It's just that the common grade can present
problems when you need a really clean surface.


Paint shop I worked at ran a "still" that was designed to reclaim the
acetone we used during production. Worked OK but you never got 100%
acetone out of the system. It worked OK for thinning and such but you
could tell it was a blend.

--
Steve W.

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 10:03:37 -0500, shiggins1
wrote:

On 4/25/2018 8:24 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 13:06:04 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

" writes:


The citrus based solvent has its uses. Does not evaporate
quickly so good on dried grease, old paint etc. But not great
for cleaning before gluing.

Dan


I use starting fluid (OUTDOORS..) for cleaning that leaves no
residue.

I don't know what the different brands may contain (I use straight
ether for starting), but avoid anything that contains acetone.

Pure acetone is great for adhesive prepping, but getting your
hands on
pure acetone is not easy. The stuff they sell in cans in hardware
stores is almost always recycled from industrial users, and it
usually
contains some oil. It has been the source of many bonding failures
by
home boat builders.

After reading your post Ed, I looked at the can of acetone that I
have.
It does not have an ingredients list, insinuating "pure" acetone.
There's no statement of purity either.
I've had some paint failures that I blamed on poor prep techniques.
Using acetone for prep often allows me to wipe the old coat of paint
away without scratching the part. I've gone back to using alcohol to
wipe the part down before painting. Oil in acetone could explain it.
I'm going to contact the manufacturer on the can for comment since I
bought it at the Borg. Stay tuned...

Steve

Here's an interesting claim from TAP plastics -- "Our Acetone is
virgin acetone and is not made from recycled acetone. It does not
contain any residual waxes or oils."

https://www.tapplastics.com/product/...tap_acetone/11

Acetone sold in hardware stores is almost always "industrial grade,"
which is the stuff that contains small amounts of contaminants.

Apparently there are ways to recycle it to remove all of the
non-volatiles, but it's pretty well known in the boatbuilding
business
that hardware-store acetone is corrupted with non-volatiles,
especially lubricating oils, and that it can't be used to prep cured
polyester resins for laminating. When surfacing polyester cures (and
all of the resin sold in hardware stores is surfacing resin) a waxy
layer rises to the surface to seal it from the air, and that gets
into
acetone, too, when you wipe the layer down to laminate on top of it.

(There's no need for it with epoxy prep; just wash with warm water
and
detergent, like real TSP.)

It's too bad, because acetone is a great cleaning solvent, and safer
than a lot of others. It's just that the common grade can present
problems when you need a really clean surface.

--
Ed Huntress

I had good results with this on the front surface mirror in a copier.
http://www.crcindustries.com/product...-oz-05110.html

On 4/25/2018 12:25 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
I had good results with this on the front surface mirror in a copier.
http://www.crcindustries.com/product...-oz-05110.html


20-30% naphtha (http://docs.crcindustries.com/msds/5110.pdf). Naphtha
is not particularly volatile & I would expect it to leave a residue.
But I would trust your 1st-person experience more than my expectations.

Bob

Another English incongruity: naphtha = nap-tha, not naph-tha

On 4/25/2018 11:47 AM, Steve W. wrote:
Paint shop I worked at ran a "still" that was designed to reclaim the
acetone we used during production. ...

How did you use acetone such that it was reclaim-able? I've always used
it as wipe-on or spray-on, wipe-off. I.e., ending up with the acetone
in rags that were discarded.

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 12:25:20 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 10:03:37 -0500, shiggins1
wrote:

On 4/25/2018 8:24 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 13:06:04 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

" writes:


The citrus based solvent has its uses. Does not evaporate
quickly so good on dried grease, old paint etc. But not great
for cleaning before gluing.

Dan


I use starting fluid (OUTDOORS..) for cleaning that leaves no
residue.

I don't know what the different brands may contain (I use straight
ether for starting), but avoid anything that contains acetone.

Pure acetone is great for adhesive prepping, but getting your
hands on
pure acetone is not easy. The stuff they sell in cans in hardware
stores is almost always recycled from industrial users, and it
usually
contains some oil. It has been the source of many bonding failures
by
home boat builders.

After reading your post Ed, I looked at the can of acetone that I
have.
It does not have an ingredients list, insinuating "pure" acetone.
There's no statement of purity either.
I've had some paint failures that I blamed on poor prep techniques.
Using acetone for prep often allows me to wipe the old coat of paint
away without scratching the part. I've gone back to using alcohol to
wipe the part down before painting. Oil in acetone could explain it.
I'm going to contact the manufacturer on the can for comment since I
bought it at the Borg. Stay tuned...

Steve

Here's an interesting claim from TAP plastics -- "Our Acetone is
virgin acetone and is not made from recycled acetone. It does not
contain any residual waxes or oils."

https://www.tapplastics.com/product/...tap_acetone/11

Acetone sold in hardware stores is almost always "industrial grade,"
which is the stuff that contains small amounts of contaminants.

Apparently there are ways to recycle it to remove all of the
non-volatiles, but it's pretty well known in the boatbuilding
business
that hardware-store acetone is corrupted with non-volatiles,
especially lubricating oils, and that it can't be used to prep cured
polyester resins for laminating. When surfacing polyester cures (and
all of the resin sold in hardware stores is surfacing resin) a waxy
layer rises to the surface to seal it from the air, and that gets
into
acetone, too, when you wipe the layer down to laminate on top of it.

(There's no need for it with epoxy prep; just wash with warm water
and
detergent, like real TSP.)

It's too bad, because acetone is a great cleaning solvent, and safer
than a lot of others. It's just that the common grade can present
problems when you need a really clean surface.

--
Ed Huntress

I had good results with this on the front surface mirror in a copier.
http://www.crcindustries.com/product...-oz-05110.html

That's quite a hydrocarbon soup:

http://docs.crcindustries.com/msds/5110.pdf

Hey, if it works, it works.

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 12:53:34 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

On 4/25/2018 12:25 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
I had good results with this on the front surface mirror in a copier.
http://www.crcindustries.com/product...-oz-05110.html


20-30% naphtha (http://docs.crcindustries.com/msds/5110.pdf). Naphtha
is not particularly volatile & I would expect it to leave a residue.
But I would trust your 1st-person experience more than my expectations.

Bob

Another English incongruity: naphtha = nap-tha, not naph-tha

I was thinking exactly the same thing. "Naptha" covers quite a range
of volatility. "Light," which they claim this one is, is more volatile
that most.

--
Ed Huntress

"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
news
On 4/25/2018 12:25 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
I had good results with this on the front surface mirror in a
copier.
http://www.crcindustries.com/product...-oz-05110.html


20-30% naphtha (http://docs.crcindustries.com/msds/5110.pdf).
Naphtha is not particularly volatile & I would expect it to leave a
residue. But I would trust your 1st-person experience more than my
expectations.

Bob

Another English incongruity: naphtha = nap-tha, not naph-tha


A more expensive process gives a purer product.
https://sciencing.com/fractional-dis...k-6310159.html

Here is another "phth" pronunciation:
https://www.gasdetection.com/intersc...stly-attacked/

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 13:08:40 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 12:25:20 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 10:03:37 -0500, shiggins1
wrote:

On 4/25/2018 8:24 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 13:06:04 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

" writes:


The citrus based solvent has its uses. Does not evaporate
quickly so good on dried grease, old paint etc. But not great
for cleaning before gluing.

Dan


I use starting fluid (OUTDOORS..) for cleaning that leaves no
residue.

I don't know what the different brands may contain (I use straight
ether for starting), but avoid anything that contains acetone.

Pure acetone is great for adhesive prepping, but getting your
hands on
pure acetone is not easy. The stuff they sell in cans in hardware
stores is almost always recycled from industrial users, and it
usually
contains some oil. It has been the source of many bonding failures
by
home boat builders.

After reading your post Ed, I looked at the can of acetone that I
have.
It does not have an ingredients list, insinuating "pure" acetone.
There's no statement of purity either.
I've had some paint failures that I blamed on poor prep techniques.
Using acetone for prep often allows me to wipe the old coat of paint
away without scratching the part. I've gone back to using alcohol to
wipe the part down before painting. Oil in acetone could explain it.
I'm going to contact the manufacturer on the can for comment since I
bought it at the Borg. Stay tuned...

Steve

Here's an interesting claim from TAP plastics -- "Our Acetone is
virgin acetone and is not made from recycled acetone. It does not
contain any residual waxes or oils."

https://www.tapplastics.com/product/...tap_acetone/11

Acetone sold in hardware stores is almost always "industrial grade,"
which is the stuff that contains small amounts of contaminants.

Apparently there are ways to recycle it to remove all of the
non-volatiles, but it's pretty well known in the boatbuilding
business
that hardware-store acetone is corrupted with non-volatiles,
especially lubricating oils, and that it can't be used to prep cured
polyester resins for laminating. When surfacing polyester cures (and
all of the resin sold in hardware stores is surfacing resin) a waxy
layer rises to the surface to seal it from the air, and that gets
into
acetone, too, when you wipe the layer down to laminate on top of it.

(There's no need for it with epoxy prep; just wash with warm water
and
detergent, like real TSP.)

It's too bad, because acetone is a great cleaning solvent, and safer
than a lot of others. It's just that the common grade can present
problems when you need a really clean surface.

--
Ed Huntress

I had good results with this on the front surface mirror in a copier.
http://www.crcindustries.com/product...-oz-05110.html

That's quite a hydrocarbon soup:

http://docs.crcindustries.com/msds/5110.pdf

Hey, if it works, it works.
Nion chlorinated brake cleaners work too -
Or LPS PreSolve - it is about 50-50 medium aliphatic hydrocarbon
(solvent Naptha) and D-Limonene.

It is used for paint prep.

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 12:25:20 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 10:03:37 -0500, shiggins1
wrote:

On 4/25/2018 8:24 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 13:06:04 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

" writes:


The citrus based solvent has its uses. Does not evaporate
quickly so good on dried grease, old paint etc. But not great
for cleaning before gluing.

Dan


I use starting fluid (OUTDOORS..) for cleaning that leaves no
residue.

I don't know what the different brands may contain (I use
straight
ether for starting), but avoid anything that contains acetone.

Pure acetone is great for adhesive prepping, but getting your
hands on
pure acetone is not easy. The stuff they sell in cans in
hardware
stores is almost always recycled from industrial users, and it
usually
contains some oil. It has been the source of many bonding
failures
by
home boat builders.

After reading your post Ed, I looked at the can of acetone that I
have.
It does not have an ingredients list, insinuating "pure" acetone.
There's no statement of purity either.
I've had some paint failures that I blamed on poor prep
techniques.
Using acetone for prep often allows me to wipe the old coat of
paint
away without scratching the part. I've gone back to using alcohol
to
wipe the part down before painting. Oil in acetone could explain
it.
I'm going to contact the manufacturer on the can for comment since
I
bought it at the Borg. Stay tuned...

Steve

Here's an interesting claim from TAP plastics -- "Our Acetone is
virgin acetone and is not made from recycled acetone. It does not
contain any residual waxes or oils."

https://www.tapplastics.com/product/...tap_acetone/11

Acetone sold in hardware stores is almost always "industrial
grade,"
which is the stuff that contains small amounts of contaminants.

Apparently there are ways to recycle it to remove all of the
non-volatiles, but it's pretty well known in the boatbuilding
business
that hardware-store acetone is corrupted with non-volatiles,
especially lubricating oils, and that it can't be used to prep
cured
polyester resins for laminating. When surfacing polyester cures
(and
all of the resin sold in hardware stores is surfacing resin) a
waxy
layer rises to the surface to seal it from the air, and that gets
into
acetone, too, when you wipe the layer down to laminate on top of
it.

(There's no need for it with epoxy prep; just wash with warm water
and
detergent, like real TSP.)

It's too bad, because acetone is a great cleaning solvent, and
safer
than a lot of others. It's just that the common grade can present
problems when you need a really clean surface.

--
Ed Huntress

I had good results with this on the front surface mirror in a
copier.
http://www.crcindustries.com/product...-oz-05110.html

That's quite a hydrocarbon soup:

http://docs.crcindustries.com/msds/5110.pdf

Hey, if it works, it works.

--
Ed Huntress

Petroleum is a complex mixture. BTW 2,2,4-trimethylpentane is
"octane".

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
news
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 12:25:20 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 10:03:37 -0500, shiggins1
wrote:

On 4/25/2018 8:24 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 13:06:04 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

" writes:


The citrus based solvent has its uses. Does not evaporate
quickly so good on dried grease, old paint etc. But not
great
for cleaning before gluing.

Dan


I use starting fluid (OUTDOORS..) for cleaning that leaves no
residue.

I don't know what the different brands may contain (I use
straight
ether for starting), but avoid anything that contains acetone.

Pure acetone is great for adhesive prepping, but getting your
hands on
pure acetone is not easy. The stuff they sell in cans in
hardware
stores is almost always recycled from industrial users, and it
usually
contains some oil. It has been the source of many bonding
failures
by
home boat builders.

After reading your post Ed, I looked at the can of acetone that I
have.
It does not have an ingredients list, insinuating "pure" acetone.
There's no statement of purity either.
I've had some paint failures that I blamed on poor prep
techniques.
Using acetone for prep often allows me to wipe the old coat of
paint
away without scratching the part. I've gone back to using alcohol
to
wipe the part down before painting. Oil in acetone could explain
it.
I'm going to contact the manufacturer on the can for comment
since I
bought it at the Borg. Stay tuned...

Steve

Here's an interesting claim from TAP plastics -- "Our Acetone is
virgin acetone and is not made from recycled acetone. It does not
contain any residual waxes or oils."

https://www.tapplastics.com/product/...tap_acetone/11

Acetone sold in hardware stores is almost always "industrial
grade,"
which is the stuff that contains small amounts of contaminants.

Apparently there are ways to recycle it to remove all of the
non-volatiles, but it's pretty well known in the boatbuilding
business
that hardware-store acetone is corrupted with non-volatiles,
especially lubricating oils, and that it can't be used to prep
cured
polyester resins for laminating. When surfacing polyester cures
(and
all of the resin sold in hardware stores is surfacing resin) a
waxy
layer rises to the surface to seal it from the air, and that gets
into
acetone, too, when you wipe the layer down to laminate on top of
it.

(There's no need for it with epoxy prep; just wash with warm
water
and
detergent, like real TSP.)

It's too bad, because acetone is a great cleaning solvent, and
safer
than a lot of others. It's just that the common grade can present
problems when you need a really clean surface.

--
Ed Huntress

I had good results with this on the front surface mirror in a
copier.
http://www.crcindustries.com/product...-oz-05110.html

That's quite a hydrocarbon soup:

http://docs.crcindustries.com/msds/5110.pdf

Hey, if it works, it works.

--
Ed Huntress

Petroleum is a complex mixture. BTW 2,2,4-trimethylpentane is
"octane".


https://chem.libretexts.org/Textbook..._A_Deeper_Look

Bob Engelhardt wrote:
On 4/25/2018 11:47 AM, Steve W. wrote:
Paint shop I worked at ran a "still" that was designed to reclaim the
acetone we used during production. ...

How did you use acetone such that it was reclaim-able? I've always used
it as wipe-on or spray-on, wipe-off. I.e., ending up with the acetone
in rags that were discarded.


It was the stuff we used to wash parts and spray guns. The shop wasn't
the most "safety content" We had gallon containers of MEK open on the
tables and folks were using it bare handed to clean parts !!!

--
Steve W.

On 4/25/2018 12:08 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 12:25:20 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 10:03:37 -0500, shiggins1
wrote:

On 4/25/2018 8:24 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 13:06:04 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

" writes:


The citrus based solvent has its uses. Does not evaporate
quickly so good on dried grease, old paint etc. But not great
for cleaning before gluing.

Dan


I use starting fluid (OUTDOORS..) for cleaning that leaves no
residue.

I don't know what the different brands may contain (I use straight
ether for starting), but avoid anything that contains acetone.

Pure acetone is great for adhesive prepping, but getting your
hands on
pure acetone is not easy. The stuff they sell in cans in hardware
stores is almost always recycled from industrial users, and it
usually
contains some oil. It has been the source of many bonding failures
by
home boat builders.

After reading your post Ed, I looked at the can of acetone that I
have.
It does not have an ingredients list, insinuating "pure" acetone.
There's no statement of purity either.
I've had some paint failures that I blamed on poor prep techniques.
Using acetone for prep often allows me to wipe the old coat of paint
away without scratching the part. I've gone back to using alcohol to
wipe the part down before painting. Oil in acetone could explain it.
I'm going to contact the manufacturer on the can for comment since I
bought it at the Borg. Stay tuned...

Steve

Here's an interesting claim from TAP plastics -- "Our Acetone is
virgin acetone and is not made from recycled acetone. It does not
contain any residual waxes or oils."

https://www.tapplastics.com/product/...tap_acetone/11

Acetone sold in hardware stores is almost always "industrial grade,"
which is the stuff that contains small amounts of contaminants.

Apparently there are ways to recycle it to remove all of the
non-volatiles, but it's pretty well known in the boatbuilding
business
that hardware-store acetone is corrupted with non-volatiles,
especially lubricating oils, and that it can't be used to prep cured
polyester resins for laminating. When surfacing polyester cures (and
all of the resin sold in hardware stores is surfacing resin) a waxy
layer rises to the surface to seal it from the air, and that gets
into
acetone, too, when you wipe the layer down to laminate on top of it.

(There's no need for it with epoxy prep; just wash with warm water
and
detergent, like real TSP.)

It's too bad, because acetone is a great cleaning solvent, and safer
than a lot of others. It's just that the common grade can present
problems when you need a really clean surface.

--
Ed Huntress

I had good results with this on the front surface mirror in a copier.
http://www.crcindustries.com/product...-oz-05110.html

That's quite a hydrocarbon soup:

http://docs.crcindustries.com/msds/5110.pdf

Hey, if it works, it works.

I sent an email to customer service at WM Barr, parent company of Jasco
brand Acetone. They said their's (labeled "Professional") is virgin. I
bought it at Lowes. After this discussion I'll watch the labels more
closely instead of just grabbing a can of Acetone.
Caveat Emptor

On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 10:43:30 -0500, shiggins1
wrote:

On 4/25/2018 12:08 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 12:25:20 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 10:03:37 -0500, shiggins1
wrote:

On 4/25/2018 8:24 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 13:06:04 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

" writes:


The citrus based solvent has its uses. Does not evaporate
quickly so good on dried grease, old paint etc. But not great
for cleaning before gluing.

Dan


I use starting fluid (OUTDOORS..) for cleaning that leaves no
residue.

I don't know what the different brands may contain (I use straight
ether for starting), but avoid anything that contains acetone.

Pure acetone is great for adhesive prepping, but getting your
hands on
pure acetone is not easy. The stuff they sell in cans in hardware
stores is almost always recycled from industrial users, and it
usually
contains some oil. It has been the source of many bonding failures
by
home boat builders.

After reading your post Ed, I looked at the can of acetone that I
have.
It does not have an ingredients list, insinuating "pure" acetone.
There's no statement of purity either.
I've had some paint failures that I blamed on poor prep techniques.
Using acetone for prep often allows me to wipe the old coat of paint
away without scratching the part. I've gone back to using alcohol to
wipe the part down before painting. Oil in acetone could explain it.
I'm going to contact the manufacturer on the can for comment since I
bought it at the Borg. Stay tuned...

Steve

Here's an interesting claim from TAP plastics -- "Our Acetone is
virgin acetone and is not made from recycled acetone. It does not
contain any residual waxes or oils."

https://www.tapplastics.com/product/...tap_acetone/11

Acetone sold in hardware stores is almost always "industrial grade,"
which is the stuff that contains small amounts of contaminants.

Apparently there are ways to recycle it to remove all of the
non-volatiles, but it's pretty well known in the boatbuilding
business
that hardware-store acetone is corrupted with non-volatiles,
especially lubricating oils, and that it can't be used to prep cured
polyester resins for laminating. When surfacing polyester cures (and
all of the resin sold in hardware stores is surfacing resin) a waxy
layer rises to the surface to seal it from the air, and that gets
into
acetone, too, when you wipe the layer down to laminate on top of it.

(There's no need for it with epoxy prep; just wash with warm water
and
detergent, like real TSP.)

It's too bad, because acetone is a great cleaning solvent, and safer
than a lot of others. It's just that the common grade can present
problems when you need a really clean surface.

--
Ed Huntress

I had good results with this on the front surface mirror in a copier.
http://www.crcindustries.com/product...-oz-05110.html

That's quite a hydrocarbon soup:

http://docs.crcindustries.com/msds/5110.pdf

Hey, if it works, it works.

I sent an email to customer service at WM Barr, parent company of Jasco
brand Acetone. They said their's (labeled "Professional") is virgin. I
bought it at Lowes. After this discussion I'll watch the labels more
closely instead of just grabbing a can of Acetone.
Caveat Emptor

That's good to know. I'll keep it in mind.

I had a couple of gallons of it for nearly 30 years, that I got from
Ranger Yachts here in NJ. It's been around so long that I quit using
it and disposed of it at a hazmat collection site. Apparently it is
hygroscopic, so it will pick up water from the atmosphere unless it's
sealed extremely well.

--
Ed Huntress

On 4/30/2018 3:53 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 10:43:30 -0500, shiggins1
wrote:

On 4/25/2018 12:08 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 12:25:20 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 10:03:37 -0500, shiggins1
wrote:

On 4/25/2018 8:24 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 13:06:04 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

" writes:


The citrus based solvent has its uses. Does not evaporate
quickly so good on dried grease, old paint etc. But not great
for cleaning before gluing.

Dan


I use starting fluid (OUTDOORS..) for cleaning that leaves no
residue.

I don't know what the different brands may contain (I use straight
ether for starting), but avoid anything that contains acetone.

Pure acetone is great for adhesive prepping, but getting your
hands on
pure acetone is not easy. The stuff they sell in cans in hardware
stores is almost always recycled from industrial users, and it
usually
contains some oil. It has been the source of many bonding failures
by
home boat builders.

After reading your post Ed, I looked at the can of acetone that I
have.
It does not have an ingredients list, insinuating "pure" acetone.
There's no statement of purity either.
I've had some paint failures that I blamed on poor prep techniques.
Using acetone for prep often allows me to wipe the old coat of paint
away without scratching the part. I've gone back to using alcohol to
wipe the part down before painting. Oil in acetone could explain it.
I'm going to contact the manufacturer on the can for comment since I
bought it at the Borg. Stay tuned...

Steve

Here's an interesting claim from TAP plastics -- "Our Acetone is
virgin acetone and is not made from recycled acetone. It does not
contain any residual waxes or oils."

https://www.tapplastics.com/product/...tap_acetone/11

Acetone sold in hardware stores is almost always "industrial grade,"
which is the stuff that contains small amounts of contaminants.

Apparently there are ways to recycle it to remove all of the
non-volatiles, but it's pretty well known in the boatbuilding
business
that hardware-store acetone is corrupted with non-volatiles,
especially lubricating oils, and that it can't be used to prep cured
polyester resins for laminating. When surfacing polyester cures (and
all of the resin sold in hardware stores is surfacing resin) a waxy
layer rises to the surface to seal it from the air, and that gets
into
acetone, too, when you wipe the layer down to laminate on top of it.

(There's no need for it with epoxy prep; just wash with warm water
and
detergent, like real TSP.)

It's too bad, because acetone is a great cleaning solvent, and safer
than a lot of others. It's just that the common grade can present
problems when you need a really clean surface.

--
Ed Huntress

I had good results with this on the front surface mirror in a copier.
http://www.crcindustries.com/product...-oz-05110.html

That's quite a hydrocarbon soup:

http://docs.crcindustries.com/msds/5110.pdf

Hey, if it works, it works.

I sent an email to customer service at WM Barr, parent company of Jasco
brand Acetone. They said their's (labeled "Professional") is virgin. I
bought it at Lowes. After this discussion I'll watch the labels more
closely instead of just grabbing a can of Acetone.
Caveat Emptor

That's good to know. I'll keep it in mind.

I had a couple of gallons of it for nearly 30 years, that I got from
Ranger Yachts here in NJ. It's been around so long that I quit using
it and disposed of it at a hazmat collection site. Apparently it is
hygroscopic, so it will pick up water from the atmosphere unless it's
sealed extremely well.

Hmm... I wonder if water in my acetone isn't part of my poor prep
technique. I buy it by the gallon for the price break. But it might
take me a year to use it up. I used to be pretty good at putting the cap
back on after pouring some, but lately I've found open containers on the
workbench while cleaning up for the day.
I'm also pretty religious about cleaning firearms after a day at the
range. I usually use Ed's Red Bore Cleaner, which contains 25% acetone.
It had always done a good job, but when I pulled a rifle out of the
closet for the first time in a year it had a little surface rust. I was
able to wipe it off with more Ed's, but now I wonder if the formula put
the water there for rust to form.
I made a new batch of Ed's this year so I'll watch it closely.

Steve

On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 16:27:29 -0500, shiggins1
wrote:

On 4/30/2018 3:53 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 10:43:30 -0500, shiggins1
wrote:

On 4/25/2018 12:08 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 12:25:20 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 10:03:37 -0500, shiggins1
wrote:

On 4/25/2018 8:24 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 13:06:04 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

" writes:


The citrus based solvent has its uses. Does not evaporate
quickly so good on dried grease, old paint etc. But not great
for cleaning before gluing.

Dan


I use starting fluid (OUTDOORS..) for cleaning that leaves no
residue.

I don't know what the different brands may contain (I use straight
ether for starting), but avoid anything that contains acetone.

Pure acetone is great for adhesive prepping, but getting your
hands on
pure acetone is not easy. The stuff they sell in cans in hardware
stores is almost always recycled from industrial users, and it
usually
contains some oil. It has been the source of many bonding failures
by
home boat builders.

After reading your post Ed, I looked at the can of acetone that I
have.
It does not have an ingredients list, insinuating "pure" acetone.
There's no statement of purity either.
I've had some paint failures that I blamed on poor prep techniques.
Using acetone for prep often allows me to wipe the old coat of paint
away without scratching the part. I've gone back to using alcohol to
wipe the part down before painting. Oil in acetone could explain it.
I'm going to contact the manufacturer on the can for comment since I
bought it at the Borg. Stay tuned...

Steve

Here's an interesting claim from TAP plastics -- "Our Acetone is
virgin acetone and is not made from recycled acetone. It does not
contain any residual waxes or oils."

https://www.tapplastics.com/product/...tap_acetone/11

Acetone sold in hardware stores is almost always "industrial grade,"
which is the stuff that contains small amounts of contaminants.

Apparently there are ways to recycle it to remove all of the
non-volatiles, but it's pretty well known in the boatbuilding
business
that hardware-store acetone is corrupted with non-volatiles,
especially lubricating oils, and that it can't be used to prep cured
polyester resins for laminating. When surfacing polyester cures (and
all of the resin sold in hardware stores is surfacing resin) a waxy
layer rises to the surface to seal it from the air, and that gets
into
acetone, too, when you wipe the layer down to laminate on top of it.

(There's no need for it with epoxy prep; just wash with warm water
and
detergent, like real TSP.)

It's too bad, because acetone is a great cleaning solvent, and safer
than a lot of others. It's just that the common grade can present
problems when you need a really clean surface.

--
Ed Huntress

I had good results with this on the front surface mirror in a copier.
http://www.crcindustries.com/product...-oz-05110.html

That's quite a hydrocarbon soup:

http://docs.crcindustries.com/msds/5110.pdf

Hey, if it works, it works.

I sent an email to customer service at WM Barr, parent company of Jasco
brand Acetone. They said their's (labeled "Professional") is virgin. I
bought it at Lowes. After this discussion I'll watch the labels more
closely instead of just grabbing a can of Acetone.
Caveat Emptor

That's good to know. I'll keep it in mind.

I had a couple of gallons of it for nearly 30 years, that I got from
Ranger Yachts here in NJ. It's been around so long that I quit using
it and disposed of it at a hazmat collection site. Apparently it is
hygroscopic, so it will pick up water from the atmosphere unless it's
sealed extremely well.

Hmm... I wonder if water in my acetone isn't part of my poor prep
technique. I buy it by the gallon for the price break. But it might
take me a year to use it up. I used to be pretty good at putting the cap
back on after pouring some, but lately I've found open containers on the
workbench while cleaning up for the day.
I'm also pretty religious about cleaning firearms after a day at the
range. I usually use Ed's Red Bore Cleaner, which contains 25% acetone.
It had always done a good job, but when I pulled a rifle out of the
closet for the first time in a year it had a little surface rust. I was
able to wipe it off with more Ed's, but now I wonder if the formula put
the water there for rust to form.
I made a new batch of Ed's this year so I'll watch it closely.

Steve

Man, ya' got me. I used a lot of it in years past but only for a few,
limited purposes. For most cleaning, I didn't care about a little oil
or water. But for prepping surfaces for bonding with epoxy or
polyester, the purity of it, as I learned the hard way, can be
critical.

I have no further info to help you, Steve. That's everything I know
about it, and it's just experience-based from those limited uses. I
don't do chemistry.

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 11:47:50 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 10:03:37 -0500, shiggins1
wrote:

On 4/25/2018 8:24 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 13:06:04 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

" writes:


The citrus based solvent has its uses. Does not evaporate
quickly so good on dried grease, old paint etc. But not great
for cleaning before gluing.
Dan

I use starting fluid (OUTDOORS..) for cleaning that leaves no
residue.
I don't know what the different brands may contain (I use
straight
ether for starting), but avoid anything that contains acetone.

Pure acetone is great for adhesive prepping, but getting your
hands on
pure acetone is not easy. The stuff they sell in cans in
hardware
stores is almost always recycled from industrial users, and it
usually
contains some oil. It has been the source of many bonding
failures by
home boat builders.

After reading your post Ed, I looked at the can of acetone that
I have.
It does not have an ingredients list, insinuating "pure"
acetone.
There's no statement of purity either.
I've had some paint failures that I blamed on poor prep
techniques.
Using acetone for prep often allows me to wipe the old coat of
paint
away without scratching the part. I've gone back to using
alcohol to
wipe the part down before painting. Oil in acetone could explain
it.
I'm going to contact the manufacturer on the can for comment
since I
bought it at the Borg. Stay tuned...

Steve

Here's an interesting claim from TAP plastics -- "Our Acetone is
virgin acetone and is not made from recycled acetone. It does not
contain any residual waxes or oils."


https://www.tapplastics.com/product/...ns/tap_acetone
/11

Acetone sold in hardware stores is almost always "industrial
grade,"
which is the stuff that contains small amounts of contaminants.

Apparently there are ways to recycle it to remove all of the
non-volatiles, but it's pretty well known in the boatbuilding
business
that hardware-store acetone is corrupted with non-volatiles,
especially lubricating oils, and that it can't be used to prep
cured
polyester resins for laminating. When surfacing polyester cures
(and
all of the resin sold in hardware stores is surfacing resin) a
waxy
layer rises to the surface to seal it from the air, and that gets
into
acetone, too, when you wipe the layer down to laminate on top of
it.

(There's no need for it with epoxy prep; just wash with warm
water and
detergent, like real TSP.)

It's too bad, because acetone is a great cleaning solvent, and
safer
than a lot of others. It's just that the common grade can present
problems when you need a really clean surface.



Paint shop I worked at ran a "still" that was designed to reclaim
the
acetone we used during production. Worked OK but you never got 100%
acetone out of the system. It worked OK for thinning and such but
you
could tell it was a blend.


--
Steve W.

I would be curious if perhaps Ed could use his douchebag to fill his
gaping wide **** with epoxy and then run some high voltage lines
under his **** dress in an attempt to plug that stank nasty drippy
**** of his.