Have application just begs for carriage bolt...have never seen punch to
create them--presume must exist? Something like a Greenlee but one
piece is 1-1/2 hollow square w/ 1/8" wall so couldn't get in even if
could deal with the thickness.

More than I care to file out by hand...easy alternatives, anybody??? I
suppose could just go on and use a truss head and hold the back side but
it's a stretch to reach all of 'em while trying to tighten...

On Tue, 11 Oct 2016 09:00:52 -0500, dpb wrote:

Have application just begs for carriage bolt...have never seen punch to
create them--presume must exist? Something like a Greenlee but one
piece is 1-1/2 hollow square w/ 1/8" wall so couldn't get in even if
could deal with the thickness.

More than I care to file out by hand...easy alternatives, anybody??? I
suppose could just go on and use a truss head and hold the back side but
it's a stretch to reach all of 'em while trying to tighten...

When I had that job, I used a square file. It didn't take very long. If
you have a lot of holes, you could make a broach to use with an arbor
press.

Pete Keillor

On Tue, 11 Oct 2016 09:00:52 -0500
dpb wrote:

Have application just begs for carriage bolt...have never seen punch to
create them--presume must exist? Something like a Greenlee but one
piece is 1-1/2 hollow square w/ 1/8" wall so couldn't get in even if
could deal with the thickness.

More than I care to file out by hand...easy alternatives, anybody??? I
suppose could just go on and use a truss head and hold the back side but
it's a stretch to reach all of 'em while trying to tighten...

Maybe clamp a small file in a Sawzall type tool?

Harbor Freight has a cheapo Air File:

http://www.harborfreight.com/air-file-1704.html

or if you can fit it in their Air Saw:

http://www.harborfreight.com/high-sp...saw-91753.html

The latter can usually be bought for around $10 with coupons...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

"dpb" wrote in message
...
Have application just begs for carriage bolt...have never seen punch
to create them--presume must exist? Something like a Greenlee but
one piece is 1-1/2 hollow square w/ 1/8" wall so couldn't get in
even if could deal with the thickness.

More than I care to file out by hand...easy alternatives, anybody???
I suppose could just go on and use a truss head and hold the back
side but it's a stretch to reach all of 'em while trying to
tighten...

Maybe you could drill the hole somewhat oversized and swage four
corners into it with the square tapered section of a diamond point
punch. Carriage bolts can be their own square punches if they don't
have to move too much metal aside. It's easy to experiment on some
scrap.

--jsw

dpb writes:

Have application just begs for carriage bolt...have never seen punch to
create them--presume must exist? Something like a Greenlee but one
piece is 1-1/2 hollow square w/ 1/8" wall so couldn't get in even if
could deal with the thickness.

More than I care to file out by hand...easy alternatives, anybody??? I
suppose could just go on and use a truss head and hold the back side but
it's a stretch to reach all of 'em while trying to tighten...

It's reputedly possible to drill square holes. The drill is triangular
in cross section, tipped with three radially oriented chisel edges.
Each side of the (equilateral) triangle is equal in length to that of
a side of the desired square hole.

The workpiece is placed on two sets of rollers oriented at right angles
to each other so that the workpiece can oscillate. I suppose that the
drill speed has to be quite low and the workpiece quite light or
momentum of the workpiece would trash the drill.

Never seen it done, just saw some diagrams of how to do it. Do report
here if you figure out the details and give it a try.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

dpb wrote:

Have application just begs for carriage bolt...have never seen punch to
create them--presume must exist? Something like a Greenlee but one
piece is 1-1/2 hollow square w/ 1/8" wall so couldn't get in even if
could deal with the thickness.

More than I care to file out by hand...easy alternatives, anybody??? I
suppose could just go on and use a truss head and hold the back side but
it's a stretch to reach all of 'em while trying to tighten...
You can definitely get square punches, I'd guess Greenlee makes them, too.
They'd need to be keyed so the punch aligns with the die.

I have a big old foot-powered punch press and a selection of punches and
dies.

Jon

dpb wrote:

Have application just begs for carriage bolt...have never seen punch to
create them--presume must exist? Something like a Greenlee but one
piece is 1-1/2 hollow square w/ 1/8" wall so couldn't get in even if
could deal with the thickness.

More than I care to file out by hand...easy alternatives, anybody??? I
suppose could just go on and use a truss head and hold the back side but
it's a stretch to reach all of 'em while trying to tighten...
There are also square-hole drills. I think you start with a round hole and
then put the square drill in. it has an orbiting drive and, I think 3
points (like a triangular file) for a square hole. I don't thing you can do
this free-hand, I think it requires clamped-down work and a drill press.

Jon

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
dpb wrote:

Have application just begs for carriage bolt...have never seen punch to
create them--presume must exist? Something like a Greenlee but one
piece is 1-1/2 hollow square w/ 1/8" wall so couldn't get in even if
could deal with the thickness.

More than I care to file out by hand...easy alternatives, anybody??? I
suppose could just go on and use a truss head and hold the back side but
it's a stretch to reach all of 'em while trying to tighten...
There are also square-hole drills. I think you start with a round hole
and
then put the square drill in. it has an orbiting drive and, I think 3
points (like a triangular file) for a square hole. I don't thing you can
do
this free-hand, I think it requires clamped-down work and a drill press.

Jon

That's called a rotary broach, and last time I looked they were pretty
pricey.

On 11/10/16 22:25, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
dpb wrote:

Have application just begs for carriage bolt...have never seen punch to
create them--presume must exist? Something like a Greenlee but one
piece is 1-1/2 hollow square w/ 1/8" wall so couldn't get in even if
could deal with the thickness.

More than I care to file out by hand...easy alternatives, anybody??? I
suppose could just go on and use a truss head and hold the back side but
it's a stretch to reach all of 'em while trying to tighten...
There are also square-hole drills. I think you start with a round hole
and
then put the square drill in. it has an orbiting drive and, I think 3
points (like a triangular file) for a square hole. I don't thing you can
do
this free-hand, I think it requires clamped-down work and a drill press.

Jon
That's called a rotary broach, and last time I looked they were pretty
pricey.



I think actually a different beast as a rotary broach has the same form
as the shape it cuts whereas a square hole drill has 3 cutting edges as
shown here http://www.integerspin.co.uk/polygon.htm and operates in a
different manner to a typical rotary broach.

dpb wrote:
Have application just begs for carriage bolt...have never seen punch to
create them--presume must exist? Something like a Greenlee but one
piece is 1-1/2 hollow square w/ 1/8" wall so couldn't get in even if
could deal with the thickness.

More than I care to file out by hand...easy alternatives, anybody??? I
suppose could just go on and use a truss head and hold the back side but
it's a stretch to reach all of 'em while trying to tighten...

Look for Ribbed Neck carriage bolts:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#ribbed-neck-bolts/=14k10h0

1/8 material should be enough for the ribs to grip.


--
Remove first spam only to reply

On 10/11/2016 9:00 AM, dpb wrote:
Have application just begs for carriage bolt...have never seen punch to
create them--presume must exist? Something like a Greenlee but one piece
is 1-1/2 hollow square w/ 1/8" wall so couldn't get in even if could
deal with the thickness.

More than I care to file out by hand...easy alternatives, anybody??? I
suppose could just go on and use a truss head and hold the back side but
it's a stretch to reach all of 'em while trying to tighten...

OK, thanks for the inputs...since these were 7/16" bolts, the square was
large enough that for the two on each side farthest into the middle I
laid out the square and drilled a small hole in each corner before
drilling the main hole. A little munging w/ a metal blade in the saber
saw opened it up to the corner and then just a little file work got 'em
"close enough" to drive the bolts. Had some old Mayrath bale conveyor
elevator bolts in the stash in the barn from way-back so just used those
for the others that can reach...

For the one who suggested, I looked for the ribbed-neck but nobody had
'em in stock excepting for some 1/4 and 5/16 which were small for the
purpose...

On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 12:39:55 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Maybe you could drill the hole somewhat oversized and swage four
corners into it with the square tapered section of a diamond point
punch. Carriage bolts can be their own square punches if they don't
have to move too much metal aside. It's easy to experiment on some
scrap.

--jsw

That would be my choice if there were a good many to do. Would not be too hard to make a square punch. If only a few I would use a square file . Mostly because I have a square file and would have to make a square punch.

Dan

Dan

On 2016-10-11, dpb wrote:
Have application just begs for carriage bolt...have never seen punch to
create them--presume must exist? Something like a Greenlee but one
piece is 1-1/2 hollow square w/ 1/8" wall so couldn't get in even if
could deal with the thickness.

More than I care to file out by hand...easy alternatives, anybody??? I
suppose could just go on and use a truss head and hold the back side but
it's a stretch to reach all of 'em while trying to tighten...

Well ... I presume that the bolt will go through the opposite
wall too. so you could try a square push broach with an arbor press.
(You also don't say what size square -- for some sizes, you might need a
hydraulic press -- and some care to not press off center or you will
shatter the broach.)

I think that for a lot of farm type applications, square holes
for carriage bolts were made by a square shaped taper punch with the
workpiece heated red hot and the work done on an anvil. But a square
broach, even new, will probably cost less than a forge and an anvil if
you don't have those.

Enjoy,
DoN.

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On 2016-10-11, Jon Elson wrote:
dpb wrote:

Have application just begs for carriage bolt...have never seen punch to
create them--presume must exist? Something like a Greenlee but one
piece is 1-1/2 hollow square w/ 1/8" wall so couldn't get in even if
could deal with the thickness.

More than I care to file out by hand...easy alternatives, anybody??? I
suppose could just go on and use a truss head and hold the back side but
it's a stretch to reach all of 'em while trying to tighten...

You can definitely get square punches, I'd guess Greenlee makes them, too.
They'd need to be keyed so the punch aligns with the die.

Yes -- I didn't mention them in my previous followup given the
thickness of the metal he is punching. They work fine on say 16 ga
steel, or aluminum chassis, but I don't think that they could survive a
1/8" thick chunk of even mild steel. And yes, they have a key -- one
side of the draw screw is flat (orienting the punch) and one side of the
head of the draw screw is milled flat to rest against a raised ridge on
the die. They work fine for thinner metals.

I have a big old foot-powered punch press and a selection of punches and
dies.

That might also have problems for his 1-1/2" square tube.

Enjoy,
DoN.

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Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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On 10/11/2016 11:20 PM, DoN. Nichols wrote:
....

I think that for a lot of farm type applications, square holes
for carriage bolts were made by a square shaped taper punch with the
workpiece heated red hot and the work done on an anvil. But a square
broach, even new, will probably cost less than a forge and an anvil if
you don't have those.

Indeed...still have grandfather's old anvil and some of the forge tools,
but only the hand-turned blower (and it's froze up; have thought often
would be neat to get it working again but never gets up to the top of
the list in all the other things to do) left of the actual forge...

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Billington"
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 2:38 PM
Subject: Square holes...

That's called a rotary broach, and last time I looked they were pretty
pricey.



I think actually a different beast as a rotary broach has the same form as
the shape it cuts whereas a square hole drill has 3 cutting edges as shown
here http://www.integerspin.co.uk/polygon.htm and operates in a different
manner to a typical rotary broach.

Ok, maybe, but Polygon calls them rotary broaches.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smTdkevMMTc

On 12/10/16 18:24, Bob La Londe wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Billington"
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 2:38 PM
Subject: Square holes...

That's called a rotary broach, and last time I looked they were pretty
pricey.



I think actually a different beast as a rotary broach has the same form as
the shape it cuts whereas a square hole drill has 3 cutting edges as shown
here http://www.integerspin.co.uk/polygon.htm and operates in a different
manner to a typical rotary broach.
Ok, maybe, but Polygon calls them rotary broaches.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smTdkevMMTc


That is what I would call a rotary broach as it uses a 6 sided cutter to
cut hexagons etc, what Jon mentioned that you responded to was a polygon
drill where a special drill with 1 edge less than the number of corners
in the hole you want is used. See
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjckF0-VeGI , a different beast to a
rotary broach.

On Tue, 11 Oct 2016 19:35:11 -0400, "Stephen B."
wrote:

dpb wrote:
Have application just begs for carriage bolt...have never seen punch to
create them--presume must exist? Something like a Greenlee but one
piece is 1-1/2 hollow square w/ 1/8" wall so couldn't get in even if
could deal with the thickness.

More than I care to file out by hand...easy alternatives, anybody??? I
suppose could just go on and use a truss head and hold the back side but
it's a stretch to reach all of 'em while trying to tighten...

Look for Ribbed Neck carriage bolts:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#ribbed-neck-bolts/=14k10h0

1/8 material should be enough for the ribs to grip.

Not unlike lug bolts, wot?

--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke

"David Billington" wrote in message
...
On 12/10/16 18:24, Bob La Londe wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Billington"
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 2:38 PM
Subject: Square holes...

That's called a rotary broach, and last time I looked they were pretty
pricey.



I think actually a different beast as a rotary broach has the same form
as
the shape it cuts whereas a square hole drill has 3 cutting edges as
shown
here http://www.integerspin.co.uk/polygon.htm and operates in a
different
manner to a typical rotary broach.
Ok, maybe, but Polygon calls them rotary broaches.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smTdkevMMTc


That is what I would call a rotary broach as it uses a 6 sided cutter to
cut hexagons etc, what Jon mentioned that you responded to was a polygon
drill where a special drill with 1 edge less than the number of corners in
the hole you want is used. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjckF0-VeGI
, a different beast to a rotary broach.

Yes, and I have seen those also refered to as rotary broaches. In fact they
are the first kind of rotary broach I learned about. They use an offset
center and a trianglular cutter bounced around a square hole etc. If that's
not the right name then the folks in this group are to blame, because right
here is where I first learned about it, back when the signal to noise ratio
was a little better in this group. In fact at the time I found some for
sale by searching for "rotary broach."