A514 (T-1) steel seems to possess remarkable properties, being 100,000
psi strong, and yet has a very unremarkable composition. A little
vanadium and a little chromium. What exactly is it, that makes it so strong?

On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:45:44 -0600, Ignoramus30666
wrote:

A514 (T-1) steel seems to possess remarkable properties, being 100,000
psi strong, and yet has a very unremarkable composition. A little
vanadium and a little chromium. What exactly is it, that makes it so strong?

It's a HSLA (high-strength, low-alloy) structural steel. Among alloy
steels, 100 kips is not really that strong, but it's strong compared
to low-carbon steels and to lesser structural grades like A36.

HSLA steels are witches' brews of low alloys that combine to produce
good strength. Some, like chromium, greatly increase the ability of
carbon to form martensite. Thus, 4130 (0.30% carbon) and A514 (0.15%
carbon) can be quenched-and-tempered to much higher strengths than can
plain carbon steel of the same carbon content.

A514 also has some manganese and molbdenum, which have similar
effects.

Be careful with that "T1" designation. That's US Steel's old trade
name for it. It's also the designation for a high-strength grade of
high-speed steel that contains tungsten rather than molybdenum.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ignoramus30666"
wrote in message
A514 (T-1) steel seems to possess remarkable
properties, being 100,000
psi strong, and yet has a very unremarkable
composition. A little
vanadium and a little chromium. What exactly is it,
that makes it so strong?

Carbon...

On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 18:33:09 -0500, "Phil Kangas"
wrote:


"Ignoramus30666"
wrote in message
A514 (T-1) steel seems to possess remarkable
properties, being 100,000
psi strong, and yet has a very unremarkable
composition. A little
vanadium and a little chromium. What exactly is it,
that makes it so strong?

Carbon...

Carbon for strength, and vanadium/chromium for toughness?
Many hand tools/wrenches are chrome/vanadium steel.

--
Our main business is not to see what lies dimly at
a distance but to do what lies clearly at hand.
--Thomas Carlyle

On 2016-03-11, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:45:44 -0600, Ignoramus30666
wrote:

A514 (T-1) steel seems to possess remarkable properties, being 100,000
psi strong, and yet has a very unremarkable composition. A little
vanadium and a little chromium. What exactly is it, that makes it so strong?

It's a HSLA (high-strength, low-alloy) structural steel. Among alloy
steels, 100 kips is not really that strong, but it's strong compared
to low-carbon steels and to lesser structural grades like A36.

HSLA steels are witches' brews of low alloys that combine to produce
good strength. Some, like chromium, greatly increase the ability of
carbon to form martensite. Thus, 4130 (0.30% carbon) and A514 (0.15%
carbon) can be quenched-and-tempered to much higher strengths than can
plain carbon steel of the same carbon content.

A514 also has some manganese and molbdenum, which have similar
effects.

Be careful with that "T1" designation. That's US Steel's old trade
name for it. It's also the designation for a high-strength grade of
high-speed steel that contains tungsten rather than molybdenum.


Thanks. It looks like the alloyed metals do not add strength, instead
they help form small grains of iron and ferrites, which itself makes
the metal strong.

i

On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 05:15:53 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-11, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:45:44 -0600, Ignoramus30666
wrote:

A514 (T-1) steel seems to possess remarkable properties, being 100,000
psi strong, and yet has a very unremarkable composition. A little
vanadium and a little chromium. What exactly is it, that makes it so strong?

It's a HSLA (high-strength, low-alloy) structural steel. Among alloy
steels, 100 kips is not really that strong, but it's strong compared
to low-carbon steels and to lesser structural grades like A36.

HSLA steels are witches' brews of low alloys that combine to produce
good strength. Some, like chromium, greatly increase the ability of
carbon to form martensite. Thus, 4130 (0.30% carbon) and A514 (0.15%
carbon) can be quenched-and-tempered to much higher strengths than can
plain carbon steel of the same carbon content.

A514 also has some manganese and molbdenum, which have similar
effects.

Be careful with that "T1" designation. That's US Steel's old trade
name for it. It's also the designation for a high-strength grade of
high-speed steel that contains tungsten rather than molybdenum.


Thanks. It looks like the alloyed metals do not add strength, instead
they help form small grains of iron and ferrites, which itself makes
the metal strong.

i

You're on the right track, but if you have a need to understand it
more deeply, you'll find a lot of technical info on HSLA steels.

A514 gets most of its strength from martensite conversion
(qhuench-and-temper), and the alloy ingredients augment that process
with the low carbon level. At the same time, the combination of low
carbon and the alloy give it pretty decent ductility and elongation.
Those properties are very important in structural applications, to
avoid precipitous failure.

--
Ed Huntress

On 2016-03-12, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 05:15:53 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-11, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:45:44 -0600, Ignoramus30666
wrote:

A514 (T-1) steel seems to possess remarkable properties, being 100,000
psi strong, and yet has a very unremarkable composition. A little
vanadium and a little chromium. What exactly is it, that makes it so strong?

It's a HSLA (high-strength, low-alloy) structural steel. Among alloy
steels, 100 kips is not really that strong, but it's strong compared
to low-carbon steels and to lesser structural grades like A36.

HSLA steels are witches' brews of low alloys that combine to produce
good strength. Some, like chromium, greatly increase the ability of
carbon to form martensite. Thus, 4130 (0.30% carbon) and A514 (0.15%
carbon) can be quenched-and-tempered to much higher strengths than can
plain carbon steel of the same carbon content.

A514 also has some manganese and molbdenum, which have similar
effects.

Be careful with that "T1" designation. That's US Steel's old trade
name for it. It's also the designation for a high-strength grade of
high-speed steel that contains tungsten rather than molybdenum.


Thanks. It looks like the alloyed metals do not add strength, instead
they help form small grains of iron and ferrites, which itself makes
the metal strong.

i

You're on the right track, but if you have a need to understand it
more deeply, you'll find a lot of technical info on HSLA steels.

A514 gets most of its strength from martensite conversion
(qhuench-and-temper), and the alloy ingredients augment that process
with the low carbon level. At the same time, the combination of low
carbon and the alloy give it pretty decent ductility and elongation.
Those properties are very important in structural applications, to
avoid precipitous failure.


Ed, this steel is going to be the bottom of my scrap gondola trailer
that someone will make for me from my flatbed trailer.

My expectation is that, just as Jon Elson saw with his gun target, I
can drop heavy solid scrap pieces from up top without damaging the
bottom.

I was very lucky in that a few months ago, I bought a Fruehauf flatbed
semitrailer than was untouched by rust DESPITE being 30 years
old. (How this is even possible, is beyond me, but I have pictures to
prove it).

I bought it with the express purpose of making a gondola. My current
gondola is actually a post-consumer garbage hauling trailer and is
very weak and rusted out.

i

On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 14:51:54 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-12, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 05:15:53 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-11, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:45:44 -0600, Ignoramus30666
wrote:

A514 (T-1) steel seems to possess remarkable properties, being 100,000
psi strong, and yet has a very unremarkable composition. A little
vanadium and a little chromium. What exactly is it, that makes it so strong?

It's a HSLA (high-strength, low-alloy) structural steel. Among alloy
steels, 100 kips is not really that strong, but it's strong compared
to low-carbon steels and to lesser structural grades like A36.

HSLA steels are witches' brews of low alloys that combine to produce
good strength. Some, like chromium, greatly increase the ability of
carbon to form martensite. Thus, 4130 (0.30% carbon) and A514 (0.15%
carbon) can be quenched-and-tempered to much higher strengths than can
plain carbon steel of the same carbon content.

A514 also has some manganese and molbdenum, which have similar
effects.

Be careful with that "T1" designation. That's US Steel's old trade
name for it. It's also the designation for a high-strength grade of
high-speed steel that contains tungsten rather than molybdenum.


Thanks. It looks like the alloyed metals do not add strength, instead
they help form small grains of iron and ferrites, which itself makes
the metal strong.

i

You're on the right track, but if you have a need to understand it
more deeply, you'll find a lot of technical info on HSLA steels.

A514 gets most of its strength from martensite conversion
(qhuench-and-temper), and the alloy ingredients augment that process
with the low carbon level. At the same time, the combination of low
carbon and the alloy give it pretty decent ductility and elongation.
Those properties are very important in structural applications, to
avoid precipitous failure.


Ed, this steel is going to be the bottom of my scrap gondola trailer
that someone will make for me from my flatbed trailer.

My expectation is that, just as Jon Elson saw with his gun target, I
can drop heavy solid scrap pieces from up top without damaging the
bottom.

I was very lucky in that a few months ago, I bought a Fruehauf flatbed
semitrailer than was untouched by rust DESPITE being 30 years
old. (How this is even possible, is beyond me, but I have pictures to
prove it).

I bought it with the express purpose of making a gondola. My current
gondola is actually a post-consumer garbage hauling trailer and is
very weak and rusted out.

i

A514 ought to be a good choice for your application.

--
Ed Huntress

On 2016-03-12, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 14:51:54 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-12, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 05:15:53 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-11, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:45:44 -0600, Ignoramus30666
wrote:

A514 (T-1) steel seems to possess remarkable properties, being 100,000
psi strong, and yet has a very unremarkable composition. A little
vanadium and a little chromium. What exactly is it, that makes it so strong?

It's a HSLA (high-strength, low-alloy) structural steel. Among alloy
steels, 100 kips is not really that strong, but it's strong compared
to low-carbon steels and to lesser structural grades like A36.

HSLA steels are witches' brews of low alloys that combine to produce
good strength. Some, like chromium, greatly increase the ability of
carbon to form martensite. Thus, 4130 (0.30% carbon) and A514 (0.15%
carbon) can be quenched-and-tempered to much higher strengths than can
plain carbon steel of the same carbon content.

A514 also has some manganese and molbdenum, which have similar
effects.

Be careful with that "T1" designation. That's US Steel's old trade
name for it. It's also the designation for a high-strength grade of
high-speed steel that contains tungsten rather than molybdenum.


Thanks. It looks like the alloyed metals do not add strength, instead
they help form small grains of iron and ferrites, which itself makes
the metal strong.

i

You're on the right track, but if you have a need to understand it
more deeply, you'll find a lot of technical info on HSLA steels.

A514 gets most of its strength from martensite conversion
(qhuench-and-temper), and the alloy ingredients augment that process
with the low carbon level. At the same time, the combination of low
carbon and the alloy give it pretty decent ductility and elongation.
Those properties are very important in structural applications, to
avoid precipitous failure.


Ed, this steel is going to be the bottom of my scrap gondola trailer
that someone will make for me from my flatbed trailer.

My expectation is that, just as Jon Elson saw with his gun target, I
can drop heavy solid scrap pieces from up top without damaging the
bottom.

I was very lucky in that a few months ago, I bought a Fruehauf flatbed
semitrailer than was untouched by rust DESPITE being 30 years
old. (How this is even possible, is beyond me, but I have pictures to
prove it).

I bought it with the express purpose of making a gondola. My current
gondola is actually a post-consumer garbage hauling trailer and is
very weak and rusted out.

i

A514 ought to be a good choice for your application.


Thanks! Very excited!

On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 14:51:54 -0600, Ignoramus16966 wrote:

I was very lucky in that a few months ago, I bought a Fruehauf flatbed
semitrailer than was untouched by rust DESPITE being 30 years old. (How
this is even possible, is beyond me, but I have pictures to prove it).

30 years without significant rust is kind of the expectation around
here. It probably came from down south, or perhaps the Southwest.

30 years of service in states where they salt the roads -- that would
make it rust out.

--
www.wescottdesign.com

On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 15:54:27 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-12, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 14:51:54 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-12, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 05:15:53 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-11, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:45:44 -0600, Ignoramus30666
wrote:

A514 (T-1) steel seems to possess remarkable properties, being 100,000
psi strong, and yet has a very unremarkable composition. A little
vanadium and a little chromium. What exactly is it, that makes it so strong?

It's a HSLA (high-strength, low-alloy) structural steel. Among alloy
steels, 100 kips is not really that strong, but it's strong compared
to low-carbon steels and to lesser structural grades like A36.

HSLA steels are witches' brews of low alloys that combine to produce
good strength. Some, like chromium, greatly increase the ability of
carbon to form martensite. Thus, 4130 (0.30% carbon) and A514 (0.15%
carbon) can be quenched-and-tempered to much higher strengths than can
plain carbon steel of the same carbon content.

A514 also has some manganese and molbdenum, which have similar
effects.

Be careful with that "T1" designation. That's US Steel's old trade
name for it. It's also the designation for a high-strength grade of
high-speed steel that contains tungsten rather than molybdenum.


Thanks. It looks like the alloyed metals do not add strength, instead
they help form small grains of iron and ferrites, which itself makes
the metal strong.

i

You're on the right track, but if you have a need to understand it
more deeply, you'll find a lot of technical info on HSLA steels.

A514 gets most of its strength from martensite conversion
(qhuench-and-temper), and the alloy ingredients augment that process
with the low carbon level. At the same time, the combination of low
carbon and the alloy give it pretty decent ductility and elongation.
Those properties are very important in structural applications, to
avoid precipitous failure.


Ed, this steel is going to be the bottom of my scrap gondola trailer
that someone will make for me from my flatbed trailer.

My expectation is that, just as Jon Elson saw with his gun target, I
can drop heavy solid scrap pieces from up top without damaging the
bottom.

I was very lucky in that a few months ago, I bought a Fruehauf flatbed
semitrailer than was untouched by rust DESPITE being 30 years
old. (How this is even possible, is beyond me, but I have pictures to
prove it).

I bought it with the express purpose of making a gondola. My current
gondola is actually a post-consumer garbage hauling trailer and is
very weak and rusted out.

i

A514 ought to be a good choice for your application.


Thanks! Very excited!

If you're going to weld it, check around. The basic recommendations
are dual-shield and stick, but it may need pre-heat. Check with the
experts.

Keep in mind that A514 plate is generally sold in the
quench-and-temper, heat-treated condition. Carbon content is low, but
the material changes phases when it's hardened, like most ferrous
metals, and the phase change results in a change in density -- besides
the changes from heating and cooling.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 17:21:33 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 15:54:27 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-12, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 14:51:54 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-12, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 05:15:53 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-11, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:45:44 -0600, Ignoramus30666
wrote:

A514 (T-1) steel seems to possess remarkable properties, being 100,000
psi strong, and yet has a very unremarkable composition. A little
vanadium and a little chromium. What exactly is it, that makes it so strong?

It's a HSLA (high-strength, low-alloy) structural steel. Among alloy
steels, 100 kips is not really that strong, but it's strong compared
to low-carbon steels and to lesser structural grades like A36.

HSLA steels are witches' brews of low alloys that combine to produce
good strength. Some, like chromium, greatly increase the ability of
carbon to form martensite. Thus, 4130 (0.30% carbon) and A514 (0.15%
carbon) can be quenched-and-tempered to much higher strengths than can
plain carbon steel of the same carbon content.

A514 also has some manganese and molbdenum, which have similar
effects.

Be careful with that "T1" designation. That's US Steel's old trade
name for it. It's also the designation for a high-strength grade of
high-speed steel that contains tungsten rather than molybdenum.


Thanks. It looks like the alloyed metals do not add strength, instead
they help form small grains of iron and ferrites, which itself makes
the metal strong.

i

You're on the right track, but if you have a need to understand it
more deeply, you'll find a lot of technical info on HSLA steels.

A514 gets most of its strength from martensite conversion
(qhuench-and-temper), and the alloy ingredients augment that process
with the low carbon level. At the same time, the combination of low
carbon and the alloy give it pretty decent ductility and elongation.
Those properties are very important in structural applications, to
avoid precipitous failure.


Ed, this steel is going to be the bottom of my scrap gondola trailer
that someone will make for me from my flatbed trailer.

My expectation is that, just as Jon Elson saw with his gun target, I
can drop heavy solid scrap pieces from up top without damaging the
bottom.

I was very lucky in that a few months ago, I bought a Fruehauf flatbed
semitrailer than was untouched by rust DESPITE being 30 years
old. (How this is even possible, is beyond me, but I have pictures to
prove it).

I bought it with the express purpose of making a gondola. My current
gondola is actually a post-consumer garbage hauling trailer and is
very weak and rusted out.

i

A514 ought to be a good choice for your application.


Thanks! Very excited!

If you're going to weld it, check around. The basic recommendations
are dual-shield and stick, but it may need pre-heat. Check with the
experts.

Keep in mind that A514 plate is generally sold in the
quench-and-temper, heat-treated condition. Carbon content is low, but
the material changes phases when it's hardened, like most ferrous
metals, and the phase change results in a change in density -- besides
the changes from heating and cooling.

I should have followed up by saying that the density change puts a lot
of stress on the weld, and makes it prone to cracking. It has some of
the properties of welding high-carbon steel. But someone with
experience can tell you how to get it right.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 17:21:33 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 15:54:27 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-12, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 14:51:54 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-12, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 05:15:53 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-11, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:45:44 -0600, Ignoramus30666
wrote:

A514 (T-1) steel seems to possess remarkable properties,
being 100,000
psi strong, and yet has a very unremarkable composition. A
little
vanadium and a little chromium. What exactly is it, that
makes it so strong?

It's a HSLA (high-strength, low-alloy) structural steel.
Among alloy
steels, 100 kips is not really that strong, but it's strong
compared
to low-carbon steels and to lesser structural grades like
A36.

HSLA steels are witches' brews of low alloys that combine to
produce
good strength. Some, like chromium, greatly increase the
ability of
carbon to form martensite. Thus, 4130 (0.30% carbon) and A514
(0.15%
carbon) can be quenched-and-tempered to much higher strengths
than can
plain carbon steel of the same carbon content.

A514 also has some manganese and molbdenum, which have
similar
effects.

Be careful with that "T1" designation. That's US Steel's old
trade
name for it. It's also the designation for a high-strength
grade of
high-speed steel that contains tungsten rather than
molybdenum.


Thanks. It looks like the alloyed metals do not add strength,
instead
they help form small grains of iron and ferrites, which itself
makes
the metal strong.

i

You're on the right track, but if you have a need to understand
it
more deeply, you'll find a lot of technical info on HSLA
steels.

A514 gets most of its strength from martensite conversion
(qhuench-and-temper), and the alloy ingredients augment that
process
with the low carbon level. At the same time, the combination of
low
carbon and the alloy give it pretty decent ductility and
elongation.
Those properties are very important in structural applications,
to
avoid precipitous failure.


Ed, this steel is going to be the bottom of my scrap gondola
trailer
that someone will make for me from my flatbed trailer.

My expectation is that, just as Jon Elson saw with his gun
target, I
can drop heavy solid scrap pieces from up top without damaging
the
bottom.

I was very lucky in that a few months ago, I bought a Fruehauf
flatbed
semitrailer than was untouched by rust DESPITE being 30 years
old. (How this is even possible, is beyond me, but I have
pictures to
prove it).

I bought it with the express purpose of making a gondola. My
current
gondola is actually a post-consumer garbage hauling trailer and
is
very weak and rusted out.

i

A514 ought to be a good choice for your application.


Thanks! Very excited!

If you're going to weld it, check around. The basic recommendations
are dual-shield and stick, but it may need pre-heat. Check with the
experts.

Keep in mind that A514 plate is generally sold in the
quench-and-temper, heat-treated condition. Carbon content is low,
but
the material changes phases when it's hardened, like most ferrous
metals, and the phase change results in a change in density --
besides
the changes from heating and cooling.

I should have followed up by saying that the density change puts a
lot
of stress on the weld, and makes it prone to cracking. It has some
of
the properties of welding high-carbon steel. But someone with
experience can tell you how to get it right.

--
Ed Huntress

So what is strong, not too expensive and easy to weld?
--jsw

On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 18:56:02 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 17:21:33 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 15:54:27 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-12, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 14:51:54 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-12, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 05:15:53 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-11, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:45:44 -0600, Ignoramus30666
wrote:

A514 (T-1) steel seems to possess remarkable properties,
being 100,000
psi strong, and yet has a very unremarkable composition. A
little
vanadium and a little chromium. What exactly is it, that
makes it so strong?

It's a HSLA (high-strength, low-alloy) structural steel.
Among alloy
steels, 100 kips is not really that strong, but it's strong
compared
to low-carbon steels and to lesser structural grades like
A36.

HSLA steels are witches' brews of low alloys that combine to
produce
good strength. Some, like chromium, greatly increase the
ability of
carbon to form martensite. Thus, 4130 (0.30% carbon) and A514
(0.15%
carbon) can be quenched-and-tempered to much higher strengths
than can
plain carbon steel of the same carbon content.

A514 also has some manganese and molbdenum, which have
similar
effects.

Be careful with that "T1" designation. That's US Steel's old
trade
name for it. It's also the designation for a high-strength
grade of
high-speed steel that contains tungsten rather than
molybdenum.


Thanks. It looks like the alloyed metals do not add strength,
instead
they help form small grains of iron and ferrites, which itself
makes
the metal strong.

i

You're on the right track, but if you have a need to understand
it
more deeply, you'll find a lot of technical info on HSLA
steels.

A514 gets most of its strength from martensite conversion
(qhuench-and-temper), and the alloy ingredients augment that
process
with the low carbon level. At the same time, the combination of
low
carbon and the alloy give it pretty decent ductility and
elongation.
Those properties are very important in structural applications,
to
avoid precipitous failure.


Ed, this steel is going to be the bottom of my scrap gondola
trailer
that someone will make for me from my flatbed trailer.

My expectation is that, just as Jon Elson saw with his gun
target, I
can drop heavy solid scrap pieces from up top without damaging
the
bottom.

I was very lucky in that a few months ago, I bought a Fruehauf
flatbed
semitrailer than was untouched by rust DESPITE being 30 years
old. (How this is even possible, is beyond me, but I have
pictures to
prove it).

I bought it with the express purpose of making a gondola. My
current
gondola is actually a post-consumer garbage hauling trailer and
is
very weak and rusted out.

i

A514 ought to be a good choice for your application.


Thanks! Very excited!

If you're going to weld it, check around. The basic recommendations
are dual-shield and stick, but it may need pre-heat. Check with the
experts.

Keep in mind that A514 plate is generally sold in the
quench-and-temper, heat-treated condition. Carbon content is low,
but
the material changes phases when it's hardened, like most ferrous
metals, and the phase change results in a change in density --
besides
the changes from heating and cooling.

I should have followed up by saying that the density change puts a
lot
of stress on the weld, and makes it prone to cracking. It has some
of
the properties of welding high-carbon steel. But someone with
experience can tell you how to get it right.

--
Ed Huntress

So what is strong, not too expensive and easy to weld?
--jsw

In volumes like the plate Iggy is talking about, nothing.

It may not be difficult to weld A514; I don't know. But you have to do
it right.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 16:10:02 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 14:51:54 -0600, Ignoramus16966 wrote:

I was very lucky in that a few months ago, I bought a Fruehauf flatbed
semitrailer than was untouched by rust DESPITE being 30 years old. (How
this is even possible, is beyond me, but I have pictures to prove it).

30 years without significant rust is kind of the expectation around
here. It probably came from down south, or perhaps the Southwest.

30 years of service in states where they salt the roads -- that would
make it rust out.

Indeed. We have original vehicles driving around the roads here that
were made in the 1930s

Gunner

On 2016-03-12, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 17:21:33 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 15:54:27 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-12, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 14:51:54 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-12, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 05:15:53 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-11, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:45:44 -0600, Ignoramus30666
wrote:

A514 (T-1) steel seems to possess remarkable properties, being 100,000
psi strong, and yet has a very unremarkable composition. A little
vanadium and a little chromium. What exactly is it, that makes it so strong?

It's a HSLA (high-strength, low-alloy) structural steel. Among alloy
steels, 100 kips is not really that strong, but it's strong compared
to low-carbon steels and to lesser structural grades like A36.

HSLA steels are witches' brews of low alloys that combine to produce
good strength. Some, like chromium, greatly increase the ability of
carbon to form martensite. Thus, 4130 (0.30% carbon) and A514 (0.15%
carbon) can be quenched-and-tempered to much higher strengths than can
plain carbon steel of the same carbon content.

A514 also has some manganese and molbdenum, which have similar
effects.

Be careful with that "T1" designation. That's US Steel's old trade
name for it. It's also the designation for a high-strength grade of
high-speed steel that contains tungsten rather than molybdenum.


Thanks. It looks like the alloyed metals do not add strength, instead
they help form small grains of iron and ferrites, which itself makes
the metal strong.

i

You're on the right track, but if you have a need to understand it
more deeply, you'll find a lot of technical info on HSLA steels.

A514 gets most of its strength from martensite conversion
(qhuench-and-temper), and the alloy ingredients augment that process
with the low carbon level. At the same time, the combination of low
carbon and the alloy give it pretty decent ductility and elongation.
Those properties are very important in structural applications, to
avoid precipitous failure.


Ed, this steel is going to be the bottom of my scrap gondola trailer
that someone will make for me from my flatbed trailer.

My expectation is that, just as Jon Elson saw with his gun target, I
can drop heavy solid scrap pieces from up top without damaging the
bottom.

I was very lucky in that a few months ago, I bought a Fruehauf flatbed
semitrailer than was untouched by rust DESPITE being 30 years
old. (How this is even possible, is beyond me, but I have pictures to
prove it).

I bought it with the express purpose of making a gondola. My current
gondola is actually a post-consumer garbage hauling trailer and is
very weak and rusted out.

i

A514 ought to be a good choice for your application.


Thanks! Very excited!

If you're going to weld it, check around. The basic recommendations
are dual-shield and stick, but it may need pre-heat. Check with the
experts.

Keep in mind that A514 plate is generally sold in the
quench-and-temper, heat-treated condition. Carbon content is low, but
the material changes phases when it's hardened, like most ferrous
metals, and the phase change results in a change in density -- besides
the changes from heating and cooling.

I should have followed up by saying that the density change puts a lot
of stress on the weld, and makes it prone to cracking. It has some of
the properties of welding high-carbon steel. But someone with
experience can tell you how to get it right.


I will not be doing welding. There is a company tta takes your flatbed
and adds a gondola top.

i

On Sun, 13 Mar 2016 17:19:35 -0500, Ignoramus27049
wrote:

On 2016-03-12, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 17:21:33 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 15:54:27 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-12, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 14:51:54 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-12, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 05:15:53 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-11, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:45:44 -0600, Ignoramus30666
wrote:

A514 (T-1) steel seems to possess remarkable properties, being 100,000
psi strong, and yet has a very unremarkable composition. A little
vanadium and a little chromium. What exactly is it, that makes it so strong?

It's a HSLA (high-strength, low-alloy) structural steel. Among alloy
steels, 100 kips is not really that strong, but it's strong compared
to low-carbon steels and to lesser structural grades like A36.

HSLA steels are witches' brews of low alloys that combine to produce
good strength. Some, like chromium, greatly increase the ability of
carbon to form martensite. Thus, 4130 (0.30% carbon) and A514 (0.15%
carbon) can be quenched-and-tempered to much higher strengths than can
plain carbon steel of the same carbon content.

A514 also has some manganese and molbdenum, which have similar
effects.

Be careful with that "T1" designation. That's US Steel's old trade
name for it. It's also the designation for a high-strength grade of
high-speed steel that contains tungsten rather than molybdenum.


Thanks. It looks like the alloyed metals do not add strength, instead
they help form small grains of iron and ferrites, which itself makes
the metal strong.

i

You're on the right track, but if you have a need to understand it
more deeply, you'll find a lot of technical info on HSLA steels.

A514 gets most of its strength from martensite conversion
(qhuench-and-temper), and the alloy ingredients augment that process
with the low carbon level. At the same time, the combination of low
carbon and the alloy give it pretty decent ductility and elongation.
Those properties are very important in structural applications, to
avoid precipitous failure.


Ed, this steel is going to be the bottom of my scrap gondola trailer
that someone will make for me from my flatbed trailer.

My expectation is that, just as Jon Elson saw with his gun target, I
can drop heavy solid scrap pieces from up top without damaging the
bottom.

I was very lucky in that a few months ago, I bought a Fruehauf flatbed
semitrailer than was untouched by rust DESPITE being 30 years
old. (How this is even possible, is beyond me, but I have pictures to
prove it).

I bought it with the express purpose of making a gondola. My current
gondola is actually a post-consumer garbage hauling trailer and is
very weak and rusted out.

i

A514 ought to be a good choice for your application.


Thanks! Very excited!

If you're going to weld it, check around. The basic recommendations
are dual-shield and stick, but it may need pre-heat. Check with the
experts.

Keep in mind that A514 plate is generally sold in the
quench-and-temper, heat-treated condition. Carbon content is low, but
the material changes phases when it's hardened, like most ferrous
metals, and the phase change results in a change in density -- besides
the changes from heating and cooling.

I should have followed up by saying that the density change puts a lot
of stress on the weld, and makes it prone to cracking. It has some of
the properties of welding high-carbon steel. But someone with
experience can tell you how to get it right.


I will not be doing welding. There is a company tta takes your flatbed
and adds a gondola top.

i

It sounds like you're ready to roll...er, to scrap. g

Good luck with it.

--
Ed Huntress

On 2016-03-13, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 16:10:02 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 14:51:54 -0600, Ignoramus16966 wrote:

I was very lucky in that a few months ago, I bought a Fruehauf flatbed
semitrailer than was untouched by rust DESPITE being 30 years old. (How
this is even possible, is beyond me, but I have pictures to prove it).

30 years without significant rust is kind of the expectation around
here. It probably came from down south, or perhaps the Southwest.

30 years of service in states where they salt the roads -- that would
make it rust out.

Indeed. We have original vehicles driving around the roads here that
were made in the 1930s

Gunner

Yes, maybe it was somewhere in the dry warm state mos of its life.

My beavertail semi trailer is the same way.,