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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit 6-71
I bought this generator in auction for $300 plus BP:
http://goo.gl/QuWrwy It is an old 250 kVa emergency generator with 886 hours. Located inside a GE facility in Chicago. It has an engine that looks like Detroit 6-71 with a turbo. I have always been kind of a sucker for those detroits (first made in 1938). Once bought, tested and resold a 3-53 and loved it. Could not pass up a chance to buy the whole generator for $300. Anyway, in my own mind, I would make more money if I separate this generator and sell the Detroit separate as a running low hours engine, and sell the generating end to be used with some other engine. My own reasoning is that very few people would want this as a generator, because it is really noisy and not fuel efficient and leaks oil (they all do). A 250 kVa generator is too big for a typical house or farm and would only be usable for special needs, and usually companies with big money would rather buy a $100,000 new generator that is EPA compliant, than some old generator for $10,000. Whereas, I am thinking, there is a million uses for a good condition 6-71 diesel engine, like old tractors, landing crafts, or who knows what. Makes sense? Separate or not? i |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit 6-71
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:55:31 -0500, Ignoramus32337
wrote: I bought this generator in auction for $300 plus BP: http://goo.gl/QuWrwy It is an old 250 kVa emergency generator with 886 hours. Located inside a GE facility in Chicago. It has an engine that looks like Detroit 6-71 with a turbo. I have always been kind of a sucker for those detroits (first made in 1938). Once bought, tested and resold a 3-53 and loved it. Could not pass up a chance to buy the whole generator for $300. No ****, Sherlock. Congrats, and YOU SUCK! Anyway, in my own mind, I would make more money if I separate this generator and sell the Detroit separate as a running low hours engine, and sell the generating end to be used with some other engine. My own reasoning is that very few people would want this as a generator, because it is really noisy and not fuel efficient and leaks oil (they all do). A 250 kVa generator is too big for a typical house or farm and would only be usable for special needs, and usually companies with big money would rather buy a $100,000 new generator that is EPA compliant, than some old generator for $10,000. Whereas, I am thinking, there is a million uses for a good condition 6-71 diesel engine, like old tractors, landing crafts, or who knows what. Makes sense? Separate or not? What kind of engine would it take to provide 20kW from that genset? If it's small, perhaps the separation would be a good idea. -- And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. -- Anaïs Nin |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit 6-71
On 2015-09-13, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:55:31 -0500, Ignoramus32337 wrote: I bought this generator in auction for $300 plus BP: http://goo.gl/QuWrwy It is an old 250 kVa emergency generator with 886 hours. Located inside a GE facility in Chicago. It has an engine that looks like Detroit 6-71 with a turbo. I have always been kind of a sucker for those detroits (first made in 1938). Once bought, tested and resold a 3-53 and loved it. Could not pass up a chance to buy the whole generator for $300. No ****, Sherlock. Congrats, and YOU SUCK! Thanks... Kind of excited... Picking up wednesday... Anyway, in my own mind, I would make more money if I separate this generator and sell the Detroit separate as a running low hours engine, and sell the generating end to be used with some other engine. My own reasoning is that very few people would want this as a generator, because it is really noisy and not fuel efficient and leaks oil (they all do). A 250 kVa generator is too big for a typical house or farm and would only be usable for special needs, and usually companies with big money would rather buy a $100,000 new generator that is EPA compliant, than some old generator for $10,000. Whereas, I am thinking, there is a million uses for a good condition 6-71 diesel engine, like old tractors, landing crafts, or who knows what. Makes sense? Separate or not? What kind of engine would it take to provide 20kW from that genset? If it's small, perhaps the separation would be a good idea. You can use any kind of engine, but it probably needs the correct connector plate for the generator end, I will see once I separate them. i |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit 6-71
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 16:23:49 -0500, Ignoramus32337
wrote: On 2015-09-13, Larry Jaques wrote: On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:55:31 -0500, Ignoramus32337 wrote: I bought this generator in auction for $300 plus BP: http://goo.gl/QuWrwy It is an old 250 kVa emergency generator with 886 hours. Located inside a GE facility in Chicago. It has an engine that looks like Detroit 6-71 with a turbo. I have always been kind of a sucker for those detroits (first made in 1938). Once bought, tested and resold a 3-53 and loved it. Could not pass up a chance to buy the whole generator for $300. No ****, Sherlock. Congrats, and YOU SUCK! Thanks... Kind of excited... Picking up wednesday... Have fun! Anyway, in my own mind, I would make more money if I separate this generator and sell the Detroit separate as a running low hours engine, and sell the generating end to be used with some other engine. My own reasoning is that very few people would want this as a generator, because it is really noisy and not fuel efficient and leaks oil (they all do). The mayor of a small burg should have bought that for the times ahead. Perfect for running an entire small town, huh? What kind of engine would it take to provide 20kW from that genset? If it's small, perhaps the separation would be a good idea. You can use any kind of engine, but it probably needs the correct connector plate for the generator end, I will see once I separate them. I'm wondering what horsepower it would take to make it produce very lightly, like 20% of its nominal output. Knowing what CAN be mated to it might help you sell it. -- And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. -- Anaïs Nin |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit 6-71
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:14:27 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:55:31 -0500, Ignoramus32337 wrote: I bought this generator in auction for $300 plus BP: http://goo.gl/QuWrwy It is an old 250 kVa emergency generator with 886 hours. Located inside a GE facility in Chicago. It has an engine that looks like Detroit 6-71 with a turbo. I have always been kind of a sucker for those detroits (first made in 1938). Once bought, tested and resold a 3-53 and loved it. Could not pass up a chance to buy the whole generator for $300. No ****, Sherlock. Congrats, and YOU SUCK! Anyway, in my own mind, I would make more money if I separate this generator and sell the Detroit separate as a running low hours engine, and sell the generating end to be used with some other engine. My own reasoning is that very few people would want this as a generator, because it is really noisy and not fuel efficient and leaks oil (they all do). A 250 kVa generator is too big for a typical house or farm and would only be usable for special needs, and usually companies with big money would rather buy a $100,000 new generator that is EPA compliant, than some old generator for $10,000. Whereas, I am thinking, there is a million uses for a good condition 6-71 diesel engine, like old tractors, landing crafts, or who knows what. Makes sense? Separate or not? What kind of engine would it take to provide 20kW from that genset? If it's small, perhaps the separation would be a good idea. Minimum 200 hp. Something like say.. a Detroit 6-71 |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit 6-71
Gunner Asch fired this volley in
: What kind of engine would it take to provide 20kW from that genset? If it's small, perhaps the separation would be a good idea. Minimum 200 hp. Something like say.. a Detroit 6-71 ??? I can provide a good, solid 8KW from an 18HP engine. So, you're saying that 2.5x that would take TWELVE TIMES the HP? Somebody's numbers are wrong -- maybe mine. Ig said it was a 250KVA (250KW). You're saying 20. ???? Lloyd |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit 6-71
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 18:14:58 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote: Gunner Asch fired this volley in : What kind of engine would it take to provide 20kW from that genset? If it's small, perhaps the separation would be a good idea. Minimum 200 hp. Something like say.. a Detroit 6-71 ??? I can provide a good, solid 8KW from an 18HP engine. So, you're saying that 2.5x that would take TWELVE TIMES the HP? Somebody's numbers are wrong -- maybe mine. Ig said it was a 250KVA (250KW). You're saying 20. ???? Lloyd 250 KVA isnt 250 Kw http://www.rapidtables.com/convert/e...va-to-watt.htm I dont have a clue what the power factor would be. Gunner |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit 6-71
Gunner Asch fired this volley in
: 250 KVA isnt 250 Kw Pretty close, if you're supplying a combination of resistive and non- syncronized inductive loads. C'mon, Gunner. I know 'Watts' are only volts times amps in a DC environment, but we still use the term to describe VA in an AC environment (approximately). Lloyd |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit 6-71
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:59:13 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote: On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:14:27 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote: On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:55:31 -0500, Ignoramus32337 wrote: I bought this generator in auction for $300 plus BP: http://goo.gl/QuWrwy It is an old 250 kVa emergency generator with 886 hours. Located inside a GE facility in Chicago. It has an engine that looks like Detroit 6-71 with a turbo. I have always been kind of a sucker for those detroits (first made in 1938). Once bought, tested and resold a 3-53 and loved it. Could not pass up a chance to buy the whole generator for $300. No ****, Sherlock. Congrats, and YOU SUCK! Anyway, in my own mind, I would make more money if I separate this generator and sell the Detroit separate as a running low hours engine, and sell the generating end to be used with some other engine. My own reasoning is that very few people would want this as a generator, because it is really noisy and not fuel efficient and leaks oil (they all do). A 250 kVa generator is too big for a typical house or farm and would only be usable for special needs, and usually companies with big money would rather buy a $100,000 new generator that is EPA compliant, than some old generator for $10,000. Whereas, I am thinking, there is a million uses for a good condition 6-71 diesel engine, like old tractors, landing crafts, or who knows what. Makes sense? Separate or not? What kind of engine would it take to provide 20kW from that genset? If it's small, perhaps the separation would be a good idea. Minimum 200 hp. Something like say.. a Detroit 6-71 Oh, come on, duuuuuuuuuuude. Let's see, a Stamford 19kW head takes 20.8kW input, roughly 28 horsies. http://www.dieselgeneratorsmiami.com...Data-Sheet.pdf B&S makes a 20kW unit which uses a 993cid engine. I guess we could borrow Snag's Harley engine and... -- And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. -- Anaïs Nin |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit 6-71
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:59:13 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:14:27 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote: On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:55:31 -0500, Ignoramus32337 wrote: I bought this generator in auction for $300 plus BP: http://goo.gl/QuWrwy It is an old 250 kVa emergency generator with 886 hours. Located inside a GE facility in Chicago. It has an engine that looks like Detroit 6-71 with a turbo. I have always been kind of a sucker for those detroits (first made in 1938). Once bought, tested and resold a 3-53 and loved it. Could not pass up a chance to buy the whole generator for $300. No ****, Sherlock. Congrats, and YOU SUCK! Anyway, in my own mind, I would make more money if I separate this generator and sell the Detroit separate as a running low hours engine, and sell the generating end to be used with some other engine. My own reasoning is that very few people would want this as a generator, because it is really noisy and not fuel efficient and leaks oil (they all do). A 250 kVa generator is too big for a typical house or farm and would only be usable for special needs, and usually companies with big money would rather buy a $100,000 new generator that is EPA compliant, than some old generator for $10,000. Whereas, I am thinking, there is a million uses for a good condition 6-71 diesel engine, like old tractors, landing crafts, or who knows what. Makes sense? Separate or not? What kind of engine would it take to provide 20kW from that genset? If it's small, perhaps the separation would be a good idea. Minimum 200 hp. Something like say.. a Detroit 6-71 Oh, come on, duuuuuuuuuuude. Let's see, a Stamford 19kW head takes 20.8kW input, roughly 28 horsies. http://www.dieselgeneratorsmiami.com...Data-Sheet.pdf B&S makes a 20kW unit which uses a 993cid engine. I guess we could borrow Snag's Harley engine and... Like Hell ! Did you mean "993 *CC*" engine above ? I think my B&S 5Kw genset is running an 8 hp OHV motor . -- Snag |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit 6-71
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 22:29:49 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote: Larry Jaques wrote: On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:59:13 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:14:27 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote: On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:55:31 -0500, Ignoramus32337 wrote: I bought this generator in auction for $300 plus BP: http://goo.gl/QuWrwy It is an old 250 kVa emergency generator with 886 hours. Located inside a GE facility in Chicago. It has an engine that looks like Detroit 6-71 with a turbo. I have always been kind of a sucker for those detroits (first made in 1938). Once bought, tested and resold a 3-53 and loved it. Could not pass up a chance to buy the whole generator for $300. No ****, Sherlock. Congrats, and YOU SUCK! Anyway, in my own mind, I would make more money if I separate this generator and sell the Detroit separate as a running low hours engine, and sell the generating end to be used with some other engine. My own reasoning is that very few people would want this as a generator, because it is really noisy and not fuel efficient and leaks oil (they all do). A 250 kVa generator is too big for a typical house or farm and would only be usable for special needs, and usually companies with big money would rather buy a $100,000 new generator that is EPA compliant, than some old generator for $10,000. Whereas, I am thinking, there is a million uses for a good condition 6-71 diesel engine, like old tractors, landing crafts, or who knows what. Makes sense? Separate or not? What kind of engine would it take to provide 20kW from that genset? If it's small, perhaps the separation would be a good idea. Minimum 200 hp. Something like say.. a Detroit 6-71 Oh, come on, duuuuuuuuuuude. Let's see, a Stamford 19kW head takes 20.8kW input, roughly 28 horsies. http://www.dieselgeneratorsmiami.com...Data-Sheet.pdf B&S makes a 20kW unit which uses a 993cid engine. I guess we could borrow Snag's Harley engine and... Like Hell ! titter I thought you might catch that one. Did you mean "993 *CC*" engine above ? I think my B&S 5Kw genset is running an 8 hp OHV motor . Si, CC. Mea culpa. -- And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. -- Anaïs Nin |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit 6-71
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 22:29:49 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote: Larry Jaques wrote: On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:59:13 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:14:27 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote: On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:55:31 -0500, Ignoramus32337 wrote: I bought this generator in auction for $300 plus BP: http://goo.gl/QuWrwy It is an old 250 kVa emergency generator with 886 hours. Located inside a GE facility in Chicago. It has an engine that looks like Detroit 6-71 with a turbo. I have always been kind of a sucker for those detroits (first made in 1938). Once bought, tested and resold a 3-53 and loved it. Could not pass up a chance to buy the whole generator for $300. No ****, Sherlock. Congrats, and YOU SUCK! Anyway, in my own mind, I would make more money if I separate this generator and sell the Detroit separate as a running low hours engine, and sell the generating end to be used with some other engine. My own reasoning is that very few people would want this as a generator, because it is really noisy and not fuel efficient and leaks oil (they all do). A 250 kVa generator is too big for a typical house or farm and would only be usable for special needs, and usually companies with big money would rather buy a $100,000 new generator that is EPA compliant, than some old generator for $10,000. Whereas, I am thinking, there is a million uses for a good condition 6-71 diesel engine, like old tractors, landing crafts, or who knows what. Makes sense? Separate or not? What kind of engine would it take to provide 20kW from that genset? If it's small, perhaps the separation would be a good idea. Minimum 200 hp. Something like say.. a Detroit 6-71 Oh, come on, duuuuuuuuuuude. Let's see, a Stamford 19kW head takes 20.8kW input, roughly 28 horsies. http://www.dieselgeneratorsmiami.com...Data-Sheet.pdf B&S makes a 20kW unit which uses a 993cid engine. I guess we could borrow Snag's Harley engine and... Like Hell ! Did you mean "993 *CC*" engine above ? I think my B&S 5Kw genset is running an 8 hp OHV motor . My 9kw peak, 7200 run Champion runs a 440 cc OHV, and only puts out 5500 on LP or Natural Gas. It is supposed to be a "`12 hp" engine. |
#13
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit 6-71
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:14:27 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:55:31 -0500, Ignoramus32337 wrote: I bought this generator in auction for $300 plus BP: http://goo.gl/QuWrwy It is an old 250 kVa emergency generator with 886 hours. Located inside a GE facility in Chicago. It has an engine that looks like Detroit 6-71 with a turbo. I have always been kind of a sucker for those detroits (first made in 1938). Once bought, tested and resold a 3-53 and loved it. Could not pass up a chance to buy the whole generator for $300. No ****, Sherlock. Congrats, and YOU SUCK! Anyway, in my own mind, I would make more money if I separate this generator and sell the Detroit separate as a running low hours engine, and sell the generating end to be used with some other engine. My own reasoning is that very few people would want this as a generator, because it is really noisy and not fuel efficient and leaks oil (they all do). A 250 kVa generator is too big for a typical house or farm and would only be usable for special needs, and usually companies with big money would rather buy a $100,000 new generator that is EPA compliant, than some old generator for $10,000. Whereas, I am thinking, there is a million uses for a good condition 6-71 diesel engine, like old tractors, landing crafts, or who knows what. Makes sense? Separate or not? What kind of engine would it take to provide 20kW from that genset? If it's small, perhaps the separation would be a good idea. 20 KW is about 27 HP. allow say 50% for incidentals and you could probably build a 20 KW gen set that would last forever with a 40 HP engine. -- cheers, John B. |
#14
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit 6-71
Ignoramus32337 fired this volley in
: It has an engine that looks like Detroit 6-71 with a turbo. I've worked on a LOT of 6V51s and 12V71s in 'Nam. They're real workhorse engines. Even today, some modern custom-built tour busses and other vehicles of their ilk carry the same motors. YOu may find the blower bad (at least its bearings), but you'll almost certainly find a home for the motor. Probably much more likely to than if sold as part of the genset. One question, though... 'turbocharger' or 'supercharger'? Most of the older ones came stock with top-mounted mechanically-driven blowers (superchargers). Being a 2-stroke, pressure-aspirated motor, I'm not sure it would even start without at least a supercharger, even if it had a turbo, as well. Lloyd Lloyd |
#15
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit 6-71
On 2015-09-13, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus32337 fired this volley in : It has an engine that looks like Detroit 6-71 with a turbo. I've worked on a LOT of 6V51s and 12V71s in 'Nam. They're real workhorse engines. Even today, some modern custom-built tour busses and other vehicles of their ilk carry the same motors. Right. They are awesome if you do not mind the noise, some lesser fuel efficiency, but like simplicity and reliability. YOu may find the blower bad (at least its bearings), but you'll almost certainly find a home for the motor. Probably much more likely to than if sold as part of the genset. OK, so we agree. One question, though... 'turbocharger' or 'supercharger'? Most of the older ones came stock with top-mounted mechanically-driven blowers (superchargers). Being a 2-stroke, pressure-aspirated motor, I'm not sure it would even start without at least a supercharger, even if it had a turbo, as well. Lloyd, it has a green roots blower on the side, you can see it. It ALSO has a turbo on top (you can also see it). You can press the magnification icons near the photo to magnify it. i |
#16
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Detroit 6-71
Ignoramus32337 fired this volley in
: Lloyd, it has a green roots blower on the side, you can see it. It ALSO has a turbo on top (you can also see it). You can press the magnification icons near the photo to magnify it. Ok... I see it now. It just looked like "background" until I magnified the picture. Yes, with both a blower and the turbo, it should be a good motor, and relatively efficient -- but still check out those bearings in the turbo (unless you find a customer who already knows and doesn't care). We ran them in boats with only the blowers, and they were still dynamite motors with lots of long-term reliability. No wonder custom-builders still seek them out and refurbish them to "like new" condition. Lloyd |
#17
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Detroit 6-71
On 2015-09-13, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus32337 fired this volley in : Lloyd, it has a green roots blower on the side, you can see it. It ALSO has a turbo on top (you can also see it). You can press the magnification icons near the photo to magnify it. Ok... I see it now. It just looked like "background" until I magnified the picture. The picture sucks. That may have something to do with the fact that I got it for $300 plus BP. Yes, with both a blower and the turbo, it should be a good motor, and relatively efficient -- but still check out those bearings in the turbo (unless you find a customer who already knows and doesn't care). I do not know how I can check those bearings, as they are inside the turbo. We ran them in boats with only the blowers, and they were still dynamite motors with lots of long-term reliability. They are very lovely and very MANLY motors with a bad ass sound. They have that general BAD ASS attitude and that's why people love them. Plus a lot of power for weight and generally reliable if not pushed too hard. No wonder custom-builders still seek them out and refurbish them to "like new" condition. I think that at this point in time, the market for them is entirely driven by nostalgia, not by money making or convenience considerations. Whoever specifies one for their boat do it for nostalgic reasons. I love those motors too. Here's the 3-53 that I sold four years ago (or so). All pictures were taken with the motor running. http://yabe.chudov.com/Detroit-Diesel-3-53/ I bought that one for $200, forgot what I sold it for. i |
#18
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Detroit 6-71
Ignoramus32337 fired this volley in
: Plus a lot of power for weight and generally reliable if not pushed too hard. There's nothing you can do to hurt them except not keep them full of clean oil and filters, and never, ever, ever over-tach them. Other than that, they're bullet-proof. You _cannot_ 'overtorque' them unless you LUG them -- so long as they maintain their set speed, they are working in their 'reliable' realm. I think that at this point in time, the market for them is entirely driven by nostalgia, not by money making or convenience considerations. Whoever specifies one for their boat do it for nostalgic reasons. Custom coach builders are still using them as if new engines! There's no 'nostalgia factor' in picking a solid, bullet-proof motor that will go 300K-500K miles! Lloyd |
#19
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Detroit 6-71
Ignoramus32337 wrote:
I do not know how I can check those bearings, as they are inside the turbo. When you pull the pipes off, gently give the turbo a spin with your finger. if it turns freely, great! If it is stiff, that is not a good sign, DON'T start the engine until the turbo is serviced. Jon |
#20
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Detroit 6-71
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 19:28:17 -0500, Ignoramus32337
wrote: On 2015-09-13, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote: Ignoramus32337 fired this volley in : Lloyd, it has a green roots blower on the side, you can see it. It ALSO has a turbo on top (you can also see it). You can press the magnification icons near the photo to magnify it. Ok... I see it now. It just looked like "background" until I magnified the picture. The picture sucks. That may have something to do with the fact that I got it for $300 plus BP. Yes, with both a blower and the turbo, it should be a good motor, and relatively efficient -- but still check out those bearings in the turbo (unless you find a customer who already knows and doesn't care). I do not know how I can check those bearings, as they are inside the turbo. It is a bit more than just the bearings. There is the rotor to rotor and rotor to housing clearance to be checked and there are oil seals that if worn or damaged allow the engine oil to be literally pumped into the engine. The engine manual covers this, or even better if you can find a shop that used to service Detroit's. However, general speaking, blower problems are fairly rare. We ran them in boats with only the blowers, and they were still dynamite motors with lots of long-term reliability. They are very lovely and very MANLY motors with a bad ass sound. They have that general BAD ASS attitude and that's why people love them. Plus a lot of power for weight and generally reliable if not pushed too hard. No wonder custom-builders still seek them out and refurbish them to "like new" condition. I think that at this point in time, the market for them is entirely driven by nostalgia, not by money making or convenience considerations. Whoever specifies one for their boat do it for nostalgic reasons. I love those motors too. Here's the 3-53 that I sold four years ago (or so). All pictures were taken with the motor running. http://yabe.chudov.com/Detroit-Diesel-3-53/ I bought that one for $200, forgot what I sold it for. i -- cheers, John B. |
#21
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Detroit 6-71
On Sunday, September 13, 2015 at 5:36:02 PM UTC-4, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Ignoramus32337 fired this volley in : Lloyd, it has a green roots blower on the side, you can see it. It ALSO has a turbo on top (you can also see it). You can press the magnification icons near the photo to magnify it. Ok... I see it now. It just looked like "background" until I magnified the picture. Yes, with both a blower and the turbo, it should be a good motor, and relatively efficient -- but still check out those bearings in the turbo (unless you find a customer who already knows and doesn't care). We ran them in boats with only the blowers, and they were still dynamite motors with lots of long-term reliability. No wonder custom-builders still seek them out and refurbish them to "like new" condition. Lloyd "but still check out those bearings in the turbo" ? Did you not mean to check out the bearings on the blower? I believe that would likely be the bigger problem on an old Detroit. |
#22
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Detroit 6-71
Garrett Fulton fired this volley in
: ? Did you not mean to check out the bearings on the blower? I believe that would likely be the bigger problem on an old Detroit. No; given the relative speeds of operation, and their temperature domain, those in the turbo are the more likely ones to fail early. To my knowledge, we never had a Roots failure in our two divisions of Swift boats, unless one got shot up. They were rebuilt every time a boat went in for overhaul, but every moving part in the engines was replaced or re-machined then. Also, on that thing about the runaway condition -- I think it was on the Mark II boats (real pigs in performance) that they started putting a manual damper over the blower inlet, so if the engine mate was fast enough, he could shut one down very quickly. Prior to that, the only solution was a very dangerous one... he had to jump down into the compartment (between the two engines) spin off the injector cover nuts, and slam the rack by hand! It could have been the Mark III boats where they began to add that (luxury yachts compared to the Mark I boats!) Lloyd |
#23
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Detroit 6-71
Ignoramus32337 wrote:
Lloyd, it has a green roots blower on the side, you can see it. It ALSO has a turbo on top (you can also see it). You can press the magnification icons near the photo to magnify it. i Oh, that probably makes in a 6-71NT, which is actually quieter than the original 6-71 with the straight-lobed rotors. Most of the turbocharged engines also have the helical-lobe rotors, which makes them (marginally) quieter. They had one of the original gen sets at work for emergencies when the underground cables popped (they used to do that a LOT). They'd park it in the parking lot and run a festoon of 230 V cable to the basement of the building and wire it into the panel. You'd drive past it and think your car was going to EXPLODE from the vibration! That was a 6-71 (no N, no T) with essentially a spark arrestor on the exhaust, not really any sort of muffler. Everything on your car would be vibrating in tune with the Diesel's sonic output. Jon |
#24
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Detroit 6-71
On 2015-09-14, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus32337 wrote: Lloyd, it has a green roots blower on the side, you can see it. It ALSO has a turbo on top (you can also see it). You can press the magnification icons near the photo to magnify it. i Oh, that probably makes in a 6-71NT, which is actually quieter than the original 6-71 with the straight-lobed rotors. Most of the turbocharged engines also have the helical-lobe rotors, which makes them (marginally) quieter. Nice to know. They had one of the original gen sets at work for emergencies when the underground cables popped (they used to do that a LOT). They'd park it in the parking lot and run a festoon of 230 V cable to the basement of the building and wire it into the panel. You'd drive past it and think your car was going to EXPLODE from the vibration! That was a 6-71 (no N, no T) with essentially a spark arrestor on the exhaust, not really any sort of muffler. Everything on your car would be vibrating in tune with the Diesel's sonic output. A muffler does help, with exhaust sound, but not with the rattle and such. i |
#25
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Detroit 6-71
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 22:29:19 -0500, Ignoramus32337
wrote: On 2015-09-14, Jon Elson wrote: Ignoramus32337 wrote: Lloyd, it has a green roots blower on the side, you can see it. It ALSO has a turbo on top (you can also see it). You can press the magnification icons near the photo to magnify it. i Oh, that probably makes in a 6-71NT, which is actually quieter than the original 6-71 with the straight-lobed rotors. Most of the turbocharged engines also have the helical-lobe rotors, which makes them (marginally) quieter. Nice to know. They had one of the original gen sets at work for emergencies when the underground cables popped (they used to do that a LOT). They'd park it in the parking lot and run a festoon of 230 V cable to the basement of the building and wire it into the panel. You'd drive past it and think your car was going to EXPLODE from the vibration! That was a 6-71 (no N, no T) with essentially a spark arrestor on the exhaust, not really any sort of muffler. Everything on your car would be vibrating in tune with the Diesel's sonic output. A muffler does help, with exhaust sound, but not with the rattle and such. There's also a massive wind/belt noise from the fan/radiator. It's the type of unit you want to dig a pit into the ground and build a sound deadening air exchange unit over to keep the gawdawful noise down. Even tiny generator noise is the pits. It' -so- pervasive, driving right through walls, insulation, and windows. -- And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. -- Anaïs Nin |
#26
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Detroit 6-71
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 22:29:19 -0500, Ignoramus32337
wrote: On 2015-09-14, Jon Elson wrote: Ignoramus32337 wrote: Lloyd, it has a green roots blower on the side, you can see it. It ALSO has a turbo on top (you can also see it). You can press the magnification icons near the photo to magnify it. i Oh, that probably makes in a 6-71NT, which is actually quieter than the original 6-71 with the straight-lobed rotors. Most of the turbocharged engines also have the helical-lobe rotors, which makes them (marginally) quieter. Nice to know. They had one of the original gen sets at work for emergencies when the underground cables popped (they used to do that a LOT). They'd park it in the parking lot and run a festoon of 230 V cable to the basement of the building and wire it into the panel. You'd drive past it and think your car was going to EXPLODE from the vibration! That was a 6-71 (no N, no T) with essentially a spark arrestor on the exhaust, not really any sort of muffler. Everything on your car would be vibrating in tune with the Diesel's sonic output. A muffler does help, with exhaust sound, but not with the rattle and such. i About half the noise of a "normally" mufflered 6-71 comes from the vibrations of the block. A guy in my home town used to have a '58 GMC dump truck with a 6-71 in it and a hi-hoe with either a 3-71 or 4-71 (can't remember, we are talking back in the late sixties) He had a honking big muffler mounted to the dump box - it was still loud on the road, but NOTHING like when he raised the box. He'd hi-tail it out of town with the hi-hoe dragging behing (front bucket over the tailgate of the dump truck) and you could hear him going up the hill clear across town. Then he started towing his little Chevy LUV behind the hoe for jobs where he didn't need the dump truck, and the hoe raised a real ruckus too. He used to dig wells with the hoe - you'd see a ring of dirt in the middle of a field, with black smoke pouring out of it, and an unholy racket you could hear for over a mile. Then all of a sudden you'd see the hoe pop out of the hole, hoe end first, riding on the front bucket. He levered the hoe out of the hole alternatel pulling with the hoe and curling the big bucket. |
#27
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Detroit 6-71
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:55:31 -0500, Ignoramus32337
wrote: I bought this generator in auction for $300 plus BP: http://goo.gl/QuWrwy It is an old 250 kVa emergency generator with 886 hours. Located inside a GE facility in Chicago. It has an engine that looks like Detroit 6-71 with a turbo. I have always been kind of a sucker for those detroits (first made in 1938). Once bought, tested and resold a 3-53 and loved it. Could not pass up a chance to buy the whole generator for $300. Anyway, in my own mind, I would make more money if I separate this generator and sell the Detroit separate as a running low hours engine, and sell the generating end to be used with some other engine. My own reasoning is that very few people would want this as a generator, because it is really noisy and not fuel efficient and leaks oil (they all do). A 250 kVa generator is too big for a typical house or farm and would only be usable for special needs, and usually companies with big money would rather buy a $100,000 new generator that is EPA compliant, than some old generator for $10,000. Whereas, I am thinking, there is a million uses for a good condition 6-71 diesel engine, like old tractors, landing crafts, or who knows what. Makes sense? Separate or not? i Personally...Id try to sell the entire unit for at least 6 months. Post the ad and photos on everything from survival mags to city services and school districts. Have a Detroit authorized guy come in and give it a good survey and post the results or a link..so there is no question about its condition. Post it on HOA websites as well. It could easily run a gated community nicely. Probably 150 homes. Thats a quarter megawatt...so she isnt small. The 6-71 is 238 hp and an inline engine. Check around and see what they are going for once they are seperated. Once you pull the engine..that genset becomes..."scrap". Fact of life. No one is going to stick another engine on it. So keep her together for as long as you can. Gunner |
#28
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Detroit 6-71
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:57:47 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote: Thats a quarter megawatt...so she isnt small. Gack..sorry..read that wrong. 20kw is a long...long way from 250kw |
#29
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Detroit 6-71
On 2015-09-13, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:57:47 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: Thats a quarter megawatt...so she isnt small. Gack..sorry..read that wrong. 20kw is a long...long way from 250kw It is 250 kVa |
#30
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Detroit 6-71
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 19:31:44 -0500, Ignoramus32337
wrote: On 2015-09-13, Gunner Asch wrote: On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:57:47 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: Thats a quarter megawatt...so she isnt small. Gack..sorry..read that wrong. 20kw is a long...long way from 250kw It is 250 kVa Which figures out to 200kW at a .8 power factor. -- And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. -- Anaïs Nin |
#31
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Detroit 6-71
On 2015-09-13, Gunner Asch wrote:
Personally...Id try to sell the entire unit for at least 6 months. Post the ad and photos on everything from survival mags to city services and school districts. Have a Detroit authorized guy come in and give it a good survey and post the results or a link..so there is no question about its condition. OK, I will drop it in my yard and will try to sell as-assembled. Once you pull the engine..that genset becomes..."scrap". Fact of life. No one is going to stick another engine on it. So keep her together for as long as you can. OK, sure, I can sell it "complete or just engine" same price. The gen end has some scrap value too as it is likely made of copper. i |
#32
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Detroit 6-71
Some company might want it as a backup unit. Or Some off grid
farm / ranch wants to fire up and do some work in the barn. With 1000 watt bulbs that are worth 30 years of life (Higher voltage than used). They tend to burn up the supply fast. Think the water station pumps in a pumping station needing backup in case their 3-phase goes out - remember Katrina in La. Flooding... Use it to electro melt a kettle of steel.... Martin On 9/13/2015 7:31 PM, Ignoramus32337 wrote: On 2015-09-13, Gunner Asch wrote: Personally...Id try to sell the entire unit for at least 6 months. Post the ad and photos on everything from survival mags to city services and school districts. Have a Detroit authorized guy come in and give it a good survey and post the results or a link..so there is no question about its condition. OK, I will drop it in my yard and will try to sell as-assembled. Once you pull the engine..that genset becomes..."scrap". Fact of life. No one is going to stick another engine on it. So keep her together for as long as you can. OK, sure, I can sell it "complete or just engine" same price. The gen end has some scrap value too as it is likely made of copper. i |
#33
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Detroit 6-71
On 2015-09-14, Martin Eastburn wrote:
Some company might want it as a backup unit. Or Some off grid farm / ranch wants to fire up and do some work in the barn. With 1000 watt bulbs that are worth 30 years of life (Higher voltage than used). They tend to burn up the supply fast. Think the water station pumps in a pumping station needing backup in case their 3-phase goes out - remember Katrina in La. Flooding... Use it to electro melt a kettle of steel.... Yes, I also think about remote pumping stations on a big farm or some such, as a possible application. The owner would not care so much about fuel savings, or cleanliness, or noise... Cheap and reliable is good enough. i Martin On 9/13/2015 7:31 PM, Ignoramus32337 wrote: On 2015-09-13, Gunner Asch wrote: Personally...Id try to sell the entire unit for at least 6 months. Post the ad and photos on everything from survival mags to city services and school districts. Have a Detroit authorized guy come in and give it a good survey and post the results or a link..so there is no question about its condition. OK, I will drop it in my yard and will try to sell as-assembled. Once you pull the engine..that genset becomes..."scrap". Fact of life. No one is going to stick another engine on it. So keep her together for as long as you can. OK, sure, I can sell it "complete or just engine" same price. The gen end has some scrap value too as it is likely made of copper. i |
#34
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Detroit 6-71
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 22:36:06 -0500, Martin Eastburn
wrote: Some company might want it as a backup unit. Or Some off grid farm / ranch wants to fire up and do some work in the barn. With 1000 watt bulbs that are worth 30 years of life (Higher voltage than used). They tend to burn up the supply fast. That's why LEDs are so great. Their illuminative power is 10x that of incans, so a 100w LED would take the place of each 1kw bulb from the past. Think the water station pumps in a pumping station needing backup in case their 3-phase goes out - remember Katrina in La. Flooding... Hurry, call in FEMA! Use it to electro melt a kettle of steel.... There ya go! On 9/13/2015 7:31 PM, Ignoramus32337 wrote: On 2015-09-13, Gunner Asch wrote: Personally...Id try to sell the entire unit for at least 6 months. Post the ad and photos on everything from survival mags to city services and school districts. Have a Detroit authorized guy come in and give it a good survey and post the results or a link..so there is no question about its condition. OK, I will drop it in my yard and will try to sell as-assembled. Once you pull the engine..that genset becomes..."scrap". Fact of life. No one is going to stick another engine on it. So keep her together for as long as you can. OK, sure, I can sell it "complete or just engine" same price. The gen end has some scrap value too as it is likely made of copper. i -- And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. -- Anaïs Nin |
#35
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Thread detour
On 9/13/2015 4:55 PM, Ignoramus32337 wrote:
I bought this generator in auction for $300 plus BP: http://goo.gl/QuWrwy ... "I gots t'know": what is Lot 52 "NOROPRESS; M# HSBL; KRAFT MAX 150 KV; HUB MAX 120MM; DRUCK MAX 150 BAR" http://tinyurl.com/q8klogu |
#36
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Thread detour
"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message ... On 9/13/2015 4:55 PM, Ignoramus32337 wrote: I bought this generator in auction for $300 plus BP: http://goo.gl/QuWrwy ... "I gots t'know": what is Lot 52 "NOROPRESS; M# HSBL; KRAFT MAX 150 KV; HUB MAX 120MM; DRUCK MAX 150 BAR" http://tinyurl.com/q8klogu I recognize the words at least. Kraft = strength, power or force (but voltage is Spannung), Hub = stroke, Druck = pressure, 1 Bar ~= 1 atmosphere. Does the Master heat gun go with it? Perhaps that combination wrings confessions from the souls of the dead? -jsw |
#37
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Thread detour
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 19:20:40 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: "Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message ... On 9/13/2015 4:55 PM, Ignoramus32337 wrote: I bought this generator in auction for $300 plus BP: http://goo.gl/QuWrwy ... "I gots t'know": what is Lot 52 "NOROPRESS; M# HSBL; KRAFT MAX 150 KV; HUB MAX 120MM; DRUCK MAX 150 BAR" http://tinyurl.com/q8klogu I recognize the words at least. Kraft = strength, power or force (but voltage is Spannung), Hub = stroke, Druck = pressure, 1 Bar ~= 1 atmosphere. Does the Master heat gun go with it? Perhaps that combination wrings confessions from the souls of the dead? -jsw That optical comparitor went for some serious money. Similar ones sell here in California for about 1/3rd of that Gunner |
#38
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Thread detour
On 2015-09-14, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 19:20:40 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: "Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message ... On 9/13/2015 4:55 PM, Ignoramus32337 wrote: I bought this generator in auction for $300 plus BP: http://goo.gl/QuWrwy ... "I gots t'know": what is Lot 52 "NOROPRESS; M# HSBL; KRAFT MAX 150 KV; HUB MAX 120MM; DRUCK MAX 150 BAR" http://tinyurl.com/q8klogu I recognize the words at least. Kraft = strength, power or force (but voltage is Spannung), Hub = stroke, Druck = pressure, 1 Bar ~= 1 atmosphere. Does the Master heat gun go with it? Perhaps that combination wrings confessions from the souls of the dead? -jsw That optical comparitor went for some serious money. Similar ones sell here in California for about 1/3rd of that Gunner What comparator? |
#39
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Thread detour
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 21:39:38 -0500, Ignoramus32337
wrote: Does the Master heat gun go with it? Perhaps that combination wrings confessions from the souls of the dead? -jsw That optical comparitor went for some serious money. Similar ones sell here in California for about 1/3rd of that Gunner What comparator? Lot # 98 http://www.bidspotter.com/en-us/auct...a-a4f7014d0d9e |
#40
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Thread detour
On 2015-09-13, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
On 9/13/2015 4:55 PM, Ignoramus32337 wrote: I bought this generator in auction for $300 plus BP: http://goo.gl/QuWrwy ... "I gots t'know": what is Lot 52 "NOROPRESS; M# HSBL; KRAFT MAX 150 KV; HUB MAX 120MM; DRUCK MAX 150 BAR" http://tinyurl.com/q8klogu It is a "NOVOPRESS", a modular pressing and cutting system, I think of German origin. It went for $120. I got lot 58, which is a copper bar cutter novopress. "druck" means pressure. Lot 58 went for $100 and included several Dayton vises and a Reelcraft compressed air hose reel. http://goo.gl/gt9hA7 i |
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