So I bought this lathe. It was a good deal. Not as good as I first
thought. When I got it set up and was leveling it I noticed wear by
the headstock that I should have noticed before. Like before I paid
the guy. The guy who sold it was completely honest about the condition
of the lathe, I just missed some stuff. The lathe is a JET copy of a
15 x 60 Clausing-Colchester. Because everything else on the machine is
in pretty good shape I am considering several different options to
make the ways better. The ways are hardened, hard enough that a file
just skitters across instead of cutting. But not so hard that they
can't be scraped with a carbide scraper. I know because I got out my
scraper and tried. But still hard enough that the job would take a lot
of time and my wrists already hurt enough. And I have never scraped
vee ways, only flat. But I do have that Machine Tool Reconditioning
book. Another option is to remove everything from the ways casting and
bring it to a grinder who can do the work. This would take a lot of
time, probably 20 hours, to remove and replace everything. Another
option might be to make a mount for my Dumore tool post grinder and
just grind the ways in place. This would require making the tailstock
ways as good as possible first and then making some sort of mount for
the Dumore grinder. So the first requirement would be to level the
tailstock ways after making sure that all the way surfaces are flat.
Then mount the grinder to the bottom half of the tailstock and just
slide it along to perform the grinding. I'm sure I could come up with
some sort of feed device so the the grinder would always be fed along
at the same rate. I would for sure need to scrape in the bottom half
of the tailstock to the ways if this method is going to work at all. I
see a problem though and that is I don't know how to make sure that
the tailstock ways remain parallel to the axis of the spindle. I
suppose I could put a two inch diameter rod in the chuck that extends
just a little over ten inches, indicate it to less than .0001" TIR,
put my .0005" in 10.0" level on it, level it, then check the tailstock
ways to see if they are level. Anybody done this? Anybody tried and
failed? Any opinions?
Thanks,
Eric

wrote:

The ways are hardened, hard enough that a file
just skitters across instead of cutting. But not so hard that they
can't be scraped with a carbide scraper. I know because I got out my
scraper and tried. But still hard enough that the job would take a lot
of time and my wrists already hurt enough.
I faced the same problem on a 15" Sheldon lathe. That one was
actually quite a bit harder, a carbide scraper blade would not even
scratch the surface!

First step (and you may actually be able to just use the lathe after
doing this) is to rig a toolpost grinder to the tailstock base
and tow it down the bed with a small gear motor. I cut a piece
of large angle, like 3 x 3" and drilled some holes. I mounted the
angle on the base of the tailstock, and then mounted the lathe's own
compound swivel/slide assembly on the angle. Then, I mounted the
toolpost grinder onto the compound rest. This made a pretty neat
adjustable fixture for bringing the grinding wheel down to the bed.
I used a really big cup wheel to grind the ways. See
http://pico-systems.com/sheldon.html

for a picture of the grinding process. I then went on further refining
the process with Cratex muslin-bonded wheels and straightedges, essentially
doing what you do for hand scraping, but using an air die grinder to
bring down the high spots.

But, if the tailstock ways are in good shape, you may be able to clean
up the main ways pretty quickly with the grinder trick and just leave
it at that.

Jon

fired this volley in
:

Any opinions?
Thanks,
Eric


Eric, I think it's a fool's errand (not calling you a fool, that's just a
figure of speech).

How many times will you need to grind the ways on a lathe? Do you
_really_ need to spend 40 hours making up special tools you'll only use
once, ever?

Strip it down, and have it ground by someone with the right equipment.

Lloyd

On 12/30/2014 6:19 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
fired this volley in
:

Any opinions?
Thanks,
Eric


Eric, I think it's a fool's errand (not calling you a fool, that's just a
figure of speech).

How many times will you need to grind the ways on a lathe? Do you
_really_ need to spend 40 hours making up special tools you'll only use
once, ever?

Strip it down, and have it ground by someone with the right equipment.

Lloyd



+1

On Mon, 29 Dec 2014 23:19:26 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

wrote:

The ways are hardened, hard enough that a file
just skitters across instead of cutting. But not so hard that they
can't be scraped with a carbide scraper. I know because I got out my
scraper and tried. But still hard enough that the job would take a lot
of time and my wrists already hurt enough.
I faced the same problem on a 15" Sheldon lathe. That one was
actually quite a bit harder, a carbide scraper blade would not even
scratch the surface!

First step (and you may actually be able to just use the lathe after
doing this) is to rig a toolpost grinder to the tailstock base
and tow it down the bed with a small gear motor. I cut a piece
of large angle, like 3 x 3" and drilled some holes. I mounted the
angle on the base of the tailstock, and then mounted the lathe's own
compound swivel/slide assembly on the angle. Then, I mounted the
toolpost grinder onto the compound rest. This made a pretty neat
adjustable fixture for bringing the grinding wheel down to the bed.
I used a really big cup wheel to grind the ways. See
http://pico-systems.com/sheldon.html

for a picture of the grinding process. I then went on further refining
the process with Cratex muslin-bonded wheels and straightedges, essentially
doing what you do for hand scraping, but using an air die grinder to
bring down the high spots.

But, if the tailstock ways are in good shape, you may be able to clean
up the main ways pretty quickly with the grinder trick and just leave
it at that.

Jon
Thanks for the reply Jon. So you actually did what I am considering.
It seems to me that if I can check the tailstock ways, and if they are
in good enough condition, then I can probably grind the ways. My
grinder will of course need to be able to handle a big enough cup
wheel. I'll see what Dumore says.
Eric

On Tue, 30 Dec 2014 05:19:22 -0600, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

fired this volley in
:

Any opinions?
Thanks, Eric


Eric, I think it's a fool's errand (not calling you a fool, that's just
a figure of speech).

How many times will you need to grind the ways on a lathe? Do you
_really_ need to spend 40 hours making up special tools you'll only use
once, ever?

Well, three or four times, since you'll mess up the first time(s).

Strip it down, and have it ground by someone with the right equipment.

+1

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

wrote:


Thanks for the reply Jon. So you actually did what I am considering.
It seems to me that if I can check the tailstock ways, and if they are
in good enough condition, then I can probably grind the ways. My
grinder will of course need to be able to handle a big enough cup
wheel. I'll see what Dumore says.
Eric
Yup, I did it! The self-grinding can be done in a weekend. But, it
wasn't GOOD ENOUGH for me, OH NO! I had to go FURTHER! I spent the next
20 months or so trying to make it better. After a few false starts that
ended up making it worse, I did assemble the tools and techniques to
do better, but I have NO IDEA if it was actually worth it.

The problem was that my bed was deep flame hardened, and flame hardening
will warp any surface, even a 1500 Lb lathe bed. So, the bed had at
least a 0.003" sag in the middle from the hardening process.

As for the grinder, I ran it at the slowest speed, and when I first mounted
the wheel, it vibrated some. The angle bracket/compound rest allowed me
to dress the wheel, and when that was done, the wheel ran smoothly.

Jon

On Tue, 30 Dec 2014 14:23:05 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

wrote:


Thanks for the reply Jon. So you actually did what I am considering.
It seems to me that if I can check the tailstock ways, and if they are
in good enough condition, then I can probably grind the ways. My
grinder will of course need to be able to handle a big enough cup
wheel. I'll see what Dumore says.
Eric
Yup, I did it! The self-grinding can be done in a weekend. But, it
wasn't GOOD ENOUGH for me, OH NO! I had to go FURTHER! I spent the next
20 months or so trying to make it better. After a few false starts that
ended up making it worse, I did assemble the tools and techniques to
do better, but I have NO IDEA if it was actually worth it.

The problem was that my bed was deep flame hardened, and flame hardening
will warp any surface, even a 1500 Lb lathe bed. So, the bed had at
least a 0.003" sag in the middle from the hardening process.

As for the grinder, I ran it at the slowest speed, and when I first mounted
the wheel, it vibrated some. The angle bracket/compound rest allowed me
to dress the wheel, and when that was done, the wheel ran smoothly.

Jon
Greetings Jon,
Whether I do the job myself or send the ways off I still need to take
a lot of stuff off of the machine. I have sent emails out for bids on
the job but have found only one place fairly close. Every place else
is hundreds of miles away. So since I'm taking stuff anyway I'll check
the tailstock ways and if they are OK then I'll try grinding. The
grinder you used appears to be a Themac. I have a Dumore. I have used
both and I am sure my Dumore will handle a cup wheel as big as the one
you used. It looks like the only machining that needs to be done to
mount the grinder is to drill a couple holes in the tailstock base, a
couple matching holes in an angle plate, and then one big hole and 4
tapped holes to mount the compound slide to the angle plate. So it
looks like about 4 hours machining and assembling in order to try out
the grinding. I am still not sure how to make sure the tailstock ways
are parallel to the spindle axis except with a level and the best
levels I have are graduated to .0005" per 10". If the grinding doesn't
turn out to work well I can always finish stripping stuff and send the
bed out. I am pretty sure I won't make things worse. I am a competent
machinist at least if not a machine rebuilder. You certainly did a
good job on your machine.
Cheers,
Eric
Eric

On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 12:22:28 PM UTC-8, Jon Elson wrote:

Yup, I did it! The self-grinding can be done in a weekend. But, it
wasn't GOOD ENOUGH for me, OH NO! I had to go FURTHER! I spent the next
20 months or so trying to make it better. After a few false starts that
ended up making it worse, I did assemble the tools and techniques to
do better, but I have NO IDEA if it was actually worth it.

The problem was that my bed was deep flame hardened, and flame hardening
will warp any surface, even a 1500 Lb lathe bed. So, the bed had at
least a 0.003" sag in the middle from the hardening process.

As for the grinder, I ran it at the slowest speed, and when I first mounted
the wheel, it vibrated some. The angle bracket/compound rest allowed me
to dress the wheel, and when that was done, the wheel ran smoothly.

Jon


Having the desire and going further is what makes someone into a precision machinist. What you learn on a project like this is priceless and useful for the rest of your life.

You're a precision machinist. Loud isn't and never will be. He doesn't have the mentality that's needed to be one.

On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 7:08:46 AM UTC-8, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 12/30/2014 6:19 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
fired this volley in
:

Any opinions?
Thanks,
Eric


Eric, I think it's a fool's errand (not calling you a fool, that's just a
figure of speech).

How many times will you need to grind the ways on a lathe? Do you
_really_ need to spend 40 hours making up special tools you'll only use
once, ever?

Strip it down, and have it ground by someone with the right equipment.

Lloyd



+1

Neither you or Loud will ever have what it takes to do precision machine work.

On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 10:53:01 AM UTC-8, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Tue, 30 Dec 2014 05:19:22 -0600, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

fired this volley in
:

Any opinions?
Thanks, Eric


Eric, I think it's a fool's errand (not calling you a fool, that's just
a figure of speech).

How many times will you need to grind the ways on a lathe? Do you
_really_ need to spend 40 hours making up special tools you'll only use
once, ever?

Well, three or four times, since you'll mess up the first time(s).

Strip it down, and have it ground by someone with the right equipment.

+1

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com


Most electrical engineers I've worked with make lousy machinists.

On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 6:43:31 PM UTC-5, jon_banquer wrote:


Most electrical engineers I've worked with make lousy machinists.

And most machinists make lousy E.E.'s.

Dan

" fired this volley in news:68205c94-
:

And most machinists make lousy E.E.'s.

And that idiot you replied to is neither. He has no skills in any
workplace. All he knows how to do is cry a lot about how mistreated he is
and how "respected" he is in arts of which he has no skills or knowledge.

When you're _that_ small, there's nothing much left to do but complain
about others' accomplishments.


Lloyd

On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 5:47:02 PM UTC-8, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
" fired this volley in news:68205c94-
:

And most machinists make lousy E.E.'s.

And that idiot you replied to is neither. He has no skills in any
workplace. All he knows how to do is cry a lot about how mistreated he is
and how "respected" he is in arts of which he has no skills or knowledge.

When you're _that_ small, there's nothing much left to do but complain
about others' accomplishments.


Lloyd

Loud stopped learning years ago and he proves it on a constant basis.

Loud is not a precision machinist. Loud doesn't understand anything about a modern state of the art CNC machining job shops where he has never worked as he doesn't have the needed CNC machining or CADCAM skills.

Loud doesn't understand how to use solid modeling and has no concept of why assembly modeling is so valuable.

After spending years working for Qualcomm's prototype machine shop, I then spent time working for this shop. My work can be seen all over their website:

http://www.pyramidprecision.com/

No one I know of has ever seen Loud's machine shop or his machine work. Loud is a liar and a loser. Loud's lack of LinkedIn endorsements for his machining skills and his CADCAM skills show what he truly is. Here are what my endorsements look like:

http://tinyurl.com/kpqngln

I have spent years training manual machinist like Loud that wanted to learn CNC and CADCAM programming. For those like Loud that didn't want to learn they were relegated to a corner of the shop doing secondary operations and making simple tooling.

On 12/29/2014 11:19 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
wrote:

The ways are hardened, hard enough that a file
just skitters across instead of cutting. But not so hard that they
can't be scraped with a carbide scraper. I know because I got out my
scraper and tried. But still hard enough that the job would take a lot
of time and my wrists already hurt enough.
I faced the same problem on a 15" Sheldon lathe. That one was
actually quite a bit harder, a carbide scraper blade would not even
scratch the surface!

First step (and you may actually be able to just use the lathe after
doing this) is to rig a toolpost grinder to the tailstock base
and tow it down the bed with a small gear motor. I cut a piece
of large angle, like 3 x 3" and drilled some holes. I mounted the
angle on the base of the tailstock, and then mounted the lathe's own
compound swivel/slide assembly on the angle. Then, I mounted the
toolpost grinder onto the compound rest. This made a pretty neat
adjustable fixture for bringing the grinding wheel down to the bed.
I used a really big cup wheel to grind the ways. See
http://pico-systems.com/sheldon.html

for a picture of the grinding process. I then went on further refining
the process with Cratex muslin-bonded wheels and straightedges, essentially
doing what you do for hand scraping, but using an air die grinder to
bring down the high spots.

But, if the tailstock ways are in good shape, you may be able to clean
up the main ways pretty quickly with the grinder trick and just leave
it at that.

Jon

I remember that move - thanks for the memories - and of those of Fitch!

I have a Sheldon myself. Chrome ways. As new as when brought home in '52.

Martin

Martin

wrote:

On Tue, 30 Dec 2014 14:23:05 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

wrote:


Thanks for the reply Jon. So you actually did what I am considering.
It seems to me that if I can check the tailstock ways, and if they are
in good enough condition, then I can probably grind the ways. My
grinder will of course need to be able to handle a big enough cup
wheel. I'll see what Dumore says.
Eric
Yup, I did it! The self-grinding can be done in a weekend. But, it
wasn't GOOD ENOUGH for me, OH NO! I had to go FURTHER! I spent the next
20 months or so trying to make it better. After a few false starts that
ended up making it worse, I did assemble the tools and techniques to
do better, but I have NO IDEA if it was actually worth it.

The problem was that my bed was deep flame hardened, and flame hardening
will warp any surface, even a 1500 Lb lathe bed. So, the bed had at
least a 0.003" sag in the middle from the hardening process.

As for the grinder, I ran it at the slowest speed, and when I first
mounted
the wheel, it vibrated some. The angle bracket/compound rest allowed me
to dress the wheel, and when that was done, the wheel ran smoothly.

Jon
Greetings Jon,
Whether I do the job myself or send the ways off I still need to take
a lot of stuff off of the machine. I have sent emails out for bids on
the job but have found only one place fairly close. Every place else
is hundreds of miles away. So since I'm taking stuff anyway I'll check
the tailstock ways and if they are OK then I'll try grinding. The
grinder you used appears to be a Themac.
Yes, that's right.
I have a Dumore. I have used
both and I am sure my Dumore will handle a cup wheel as big as the one
you used. It looks like the only machining that needs to be done to
mount the grinder is to drill a couple holes in the tailstock base, a
couple matching holes in an angle plate, and then one big hole and 4
tapped holes to mount the compound slide to the angle plate. So it
looks like about 4 hours machining and assembling in order to try out
the grinding. I am still not sure how to make sure the tailstock ways
are parallel to the spindle axis except with a level and the best
levels I have are graduated to .0005" per 10".
Remove the headstock. On most lathes, both tailstock and main ways
run the entire length of the bed, and the headstock usually sits on the
tailstock ways. All ways are ground parallel in one setup. So, if the
main ways are re-ground parallel to the tailstock ways, and you then
remount the headstock on the ways, everything SHOULD be perfectly
parallel again.

Jon

jon_banquer wrote:

On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 12:22:28 PM UTC-8, Jon Elson wrote:

Yup, I did it! The self-grinding can be done in a weekend. But, it
wasn't GOOD ENOUGH for me, OH NO! I had to go FURTHER! I spent the next
20 months or so trying to make it better. After a few false starts that
ended up making it worse, I did assemble the tools and techniques to
do better, but I have NO IDEA if it was actually worth it.

The problem was that my bed was deep flame hardened, and flame hardening
will warp any surface, even a 1500 Lb lathe bed. So, the bed had at
least a 0.003" sag in the middle from the hardening process.

As for the grinder, I ran it at the slowest speed, and when I first
mounted
the wheel, it vibrated some. The angle bracket/compound rest allowed me
to dress the wheel, and when that was done, the wheel ran smoothly.

Jon


Having the desire and going further is what makes someone into a precision
machinist. What you learn on a project like this is priceless and useful
for the rest of your life.

You're a precision machinist. Loud isn't and never will be. He doesn't
have the mentality that's needed to be one.
Oh, I learned a LOT on that project, that's for sure! The lathe is a very
fine machine, and I get this big grin every time I use it.

Jon