https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02602/GLShaper

No idea when it was made...the owner and I are guessing it was in the
mid 1950s. But its abso****inglutely mint under the rust and mud
dauber nests and the ancient and mummified mouse turds.

Anyone know where I can get a manual download for a G&L 16" universal
shaper?

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

Gunner - have you had any luck with the generator that wouldn't start?

Hul

Gunner Asch wrote:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02602/GLShaper

No idea when it was made...the owner and I are guessing it was in the
mid 1950s. But its abso****inglutely mint under the rust and mud
dauber nests and the ancient and mummified mouse turds.

Anyone know where I can get a manual download for a G&L 16" universal
shaper?

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On 2014-12-13, Gunner Asch wrote:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02602/GLShaper

No idea when it was made...the owner and I are guessing it was in the
mid 1950s. But its abso****inglutely mint under the rust and mud
dauber nests and the ancient and mummified mouse turds.

Anyone know where I can get a manual download for a G&L 16" universal
shaper?

How much do they pay per ton for this stuff, around where you live?

i

On Saturday, December 13, 2014 3:04:35 PM UTC-8, Ignoramus21993 wrote:
On 2014-12-13, Gunner Asch wrote:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02602/GLShaper

No idea when it was made...the owner and I are guessing it was in the
mid 1950s. But its abso****inglutely mint under the rust and mud
dauber nests and the ancient and mummified mouse turds.

Anyone know where I can get a manual download for a G&L 16" universal
shaper?

How much do they pay per ton for this stuff, around where you live?

i

They give you a choice: Cash or meth.

On Sat, 13 Dec 2014 22:30:08 +0000 (UTC), Hul Tytus
wrote:

Gunner - have you had any luck with the generator that wouldn't start?

Hul

Nope..Ive been gone all week and have been sleeping on and off all day
today



Gunner Asch wrote:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02602/GLShaper

No idea when it was made...the owner and I are guessing it was in the
mid 1950s. But its abso****inglutely mint under the rust and mud
dauber nests and the ancient and mummified mouse turds.

Anyone know where I can get a manual download for a G&L 16" universal
shaper?

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Sat, 13 Dec 2014 17:04:33 -0600, Ignoramus21993
wrote:

On 2014-12-13, Gunner Asch wrote:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02602/GLShaper

No idea when it was made...the owner and I are guessing it was in the
mid 1950s. But its abso****inglutely mint under the rust and mud
dauber nests and the ancient and mummified mouse turds.

Anyone know where I can get a manual download for a G&L 16" universal
shaper?

How much do they pay per ton for this stuff, around where you live?

i

He gave $200 for it.

He has a rather unusual shop. He can turn stuff up to 8 feet in
diameter on his VTLs and up to 20' long on his lathes

I work in there occasionally doing odds and ends for him.

He is currently building a rolling press for titanium. We will be able
to take a 18"x36" billet and roll it out to any thickness the client
needs

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

Gunner Asch wrote:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02602/GLShaper

No idea when it was made...the owner and I are guessing it was in the
mid 1950s. But its abso****inglutely mint under the rust and mud
dauber nests and the ancient and mummified mouse turds.

Anyone know where I can get a manual download for a G&L 16" universal
shaper?

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

This looks to be a twin of it.
http://www.anvilfire.com/tailgate/ma...ndE-shaper.php

This is as close as I could find to that shaper.

http://neme-s.org/Shaper%20Books/Mic...8%20Shaper.pdf

From what I can find the G&E name bounced around a LOT and Mitts &
Merrill made them for a while.

Beats doing things the hard way...
http://www.eurospares.com/graphics/T...3inshaper1.pdf

--
Steve W.

On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 19:31:02 -0500, "Steve W."
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02602/GLShaper

No idea when it was made...the owner and I are guessing it was in the
mid 1950s. But its abso****inglutely mint under the rust and mud
dauber nests and the ancient and mummified mouse turds.

Anyone know where I can get a manual download for a G&L 16" universal
shaper?

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

This looks to be a twin of it.
http://www.anvilfire.com/tailgate/ma...ndE-shaper.php

This is as close as I could find to that shaper.

http://neme-s.org/Shaper%20Books/Mic...8%20Shaper.pdf

From what I can find the G&E name bounced around a LOT and Mitts &
Merrill made them for a while.

Beats doing things the hard way...
http://www.eurospares.com/graphics/T...3inshaper1.pdf

Thanks Steve, forwarded on to the owner.

Ive got a number of shaper books in paper but I didnt have anything
for a machine with a universal table except a mention in passing


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On 12/13/2014 1:45 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02602/GLShaper

No idea when it was made...the owner and I are guessing it was in the
mid 1950s. But its abso****inglutely mint under the rust and mud
dauber nests and the ancient and mummified mouse turds.

Anyone know where I can get a manual download for a G&L 16" universal
shaper?

Gunner

I don't see and dogs in the pictures.

On 12/14/2014 10:53 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
He is currently building a rolling press for titanium. We will be able
to take a 18"x36" billet and roll it out to any thickness the client
needs

I don't even want to -guess- what a 20' stick that size would cost.


I can't imagine the energy and rigidity needed...and the cost. I hope
Gunner posts pix!

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 05:59:28 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/13/2014 1:45 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...02602/GLShaper

No idea when it was made...the owner and I are guessing it was in the
mid 1950s. But its abso****inglutely mint under the rust and mud
dauber nests and the ancient and mummified mouse turds.

Anyone know where I can get a manual download for a G&L 16" universal
shaper?

Gunner

I don't see and dogs in the pictures.

I only had one dog with me last week. Yankee's first time on the
road. I had to leave a leash on her the entire 4 days. She bolted
twice..both times headed "somewhere"...one assumes in the direction of
home to her..but both times I had to chase her nearly a quarter mile
and straight for a busy highway. No idea of where she was going, but
it was obvious she was headed "somewhere" and no idea of why she did.

I dont think she is going to be one of my truck dogs...shrug. She
is one of my shadows when Im home...so I was profoundly surprised as
to why she headed off to the wild blue yonder.

Most dogs will simply run a bit, then start sniffing and checking out
the plants and bushes in something of a circle. Not her. She headed
"somewhere"

She was very very happy to arrive home late Friday night and has been
even more of a shadow to me since she has been home. She is 4 yrs
old, and is the dog I gave to 2 bartenders who left her alone 12 or
more hours a day. She got plenty of training..but when she got
home.from class each time....turned into a self centered bitch who
ignored commands. So I got her back. Ive mentioned her before. Put
her on a leash...no problem. So I put a good leash on her and a choker
chain...handles well. She lived in the passenger seat of the minivan
and refused to explore the rest of the vehicle as a normal dog would
do. She has...issues... evidently.

I think Bailey and Zoey will be going south with me Tuesday. They are
both 5 months old and are very smart and listen well enough.

Bailey is German Shepherd / Aussie and Zoey is 100% Aussie.

Ill post photos of both if anyone is interested.




"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:02:40 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/14/2014 10:53 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
He is currently building a rolling press for titanium. We will be able
to take a 18"x36" billet and roll it out to any thickness the client
needs

I don't even want to -guess- what a 20' stick that size would cost.


I can't imagine the energy and rigidity needed...and the cost. I hope
Gunner posts pix!

I certainly will. Its costing the client about 1/4 mill and was
designed by a German....shrug

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:02:40 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/14/2014 10:53 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
He is currently building a rolling press for titanium. We will be able
to take a 18"x36" billet and roll it out to any thickness the client
needs

I don't even want to -guess- what a 20' stick that size would cost.


I can't imagine the energy and rigidity needed...and the cost. I hope
Gunner posts pix!

They'd have to work it AWFULLY DAMNED HOT, wot?

--
Obstacles are those frightful things you
see when you take your eyes off your goal.
--Henry Ford

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 07:36:09 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:02:40 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/14/2014 10:53 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
He is currently building a rolling press for titanium. We will be able
to take a 18"x36" billet and roll it out to any thickness the client
needs

I don't even want to -guess- what a 20' stick that size would cost.


I can't imagine the energy and rigidity needed...and the cost. I hope
Gunner posts pix!

They'd have to work it AWFULLY DAMNED HOT, wot?

They hot-roll titanium at temperatures similar to those for rolling
steel. It's no more than cherry-red, but I don't know the exact temps.
I saw them rolling the stuff at RTI International around 35 years ago.

Outside of the titanium producers themselves, such as RTI, titanium
typically is rolled in stainless-steel processeing mills, on the same
stands used for stainless. It's tough, but it's not ridiculous.

--
Ed Huntress

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 07:36:09 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:02:40 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/14/2014 10:53 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
He is currently building a rolling press for titanium. We will be able
to take a 18"x36" billet and roll it out to any thickness the client
needs

I don't even want to -guess- what a 20' stick that size would cost.


I can't imagine the energy and rigidity needed...and the cost. I hope
Gunner posts pix!

They'd have to work it AWFULLY DAMNED HOT, wot?

Worked cold from what I gather. The gear box is 6' tall, 8" long and
3' thick and all the shafts are at minimum...8" in diameter. The
biggest gear is 12" thick, 4' in diameter and is herringbone cut. It
will be run by a 50 HP motor from what I understand.

Obviously one wont be taking a 18" thick billet and turning it into a
4" thick billet in one pass.

Its fun loading the 5" horizontal boring mill with parts requiring a
forklift to lift em to the table ..which is 6'x6'

the empty gear box weighs probably ..hummm 10,000 lbs

the side walls of the gearbox were welded from 4" plate (very very
nice welding job too...beautifully done)

The roller assembly housings were made from 12" plate and each are 5'
wide, and 6' tall, and the adjustment screws are 6" acme thread..heat
treated.


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On 12/15/2014 10:08 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 07:36:09 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:02:40 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/14/2014 10:53 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
He is currently building a rolling press for titanium. We will be able
to take a 18"x36" billet and roll it out to any thickness the client
needs

I don't even want to -guess- what a 20' stick that size would cost.


I can't imagine the energy and rigidity needed...and the cost. I hope
Gunner posts pix!

They'd have to work it AWFULLY DAMNED HOT, wot?

They hot-roll titanium at temperatures similar to those for rolling
steel. It's no more than cherry-red, but I don't know the exact temps.
I saw them rolling the stuff at RTI International around 35 years ago.

Outside of the titanium producers themselves, such as RTI, titanium
typically is rolled in stainless-steel processeing mills, on the same
stands used for stainless. It's tough, but it's not ridiculous.

Titanium is kinda like Nylon - bends, stretches and gives, just doesn't
break or crack.

A barrel can't be made with Titanium because it would bulge on standard
bullets.

It is one metal added to others to prevent cracking under repeated
flexing. The mixture of Ti and AL proved fantastic for very high speed
jets and very heavy loaded jets. Wing flex would crack pure Al.

Martin

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 10:51:00 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 07:36:09 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:02:40 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/14/2014 10:53 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
He is currently building a rolling press for titanium. We will be able
to take a 18"x36" billet and roll it out to any thickness the client
needs

I don't even want to -guess- what a 20' stick that size would cost.


I can't imagine the energy and rigidity needed...and the cost. I hope
Gunner posts pix!

They'd have to work it AWFULLY DAMNED HOT, wot?

Worked cold from what I gather. The gear box is 6' tall, 8" long and
3' thick and all the shafts are at minimum...8" in diameter. The
biggest gear is 12" thick, 4' in diameter and is herringbone cut. It
will be run by a 50 HP motor from what I understand.

Yikes!


Obviously one wont be taking a 18" thick billet and turning it into a
4" thick billet in one pass.

Why not? g


Its fun loading the 5" horizontal boring mill with parts requiring a
forklift to lift em to the table ..which is 6'x6'

Kinda like old shipyards, huh?


the empty gear box weighs probably ..hummm 10,000 lbs

Oh, the light-duty model, is it?


the side walls of the gearbox were welded from 4" plate (very very
nice welding job too...beautifully done)

Robotic or human?


The roller assembly housings were made from 12" plate and each are 5'
wide, and 6' tall, and the adjustment screws are 6" acme thread..heat
treated.

Crikey, she's a beast!


I bought some titanium soldering picks today from RioGrande. They
were on sale for $9 for the set of 3. Solder evidently doesn't stick
to them, and I've had problems with soldering lately, so I thought I'd
try 'em. So, next week, I can hoist the soldering iron in one hand,
the pick in 3 fingers of the other, and the solder in the finger and
thumb of that other, and get a wire held down while it's being
soldered up under my truck bumper. The 10W LEDs should be in just
before Christmas. I worked late tonight and the little 3W LEDS have
helped, but I still want more light when backing.

--
Obstacles are those frightful things you
see when you take your eyes off your goal.
--Henry Ford

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 21:44:43 -0600, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

On 12/15/2014 10:08 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 07:36:09 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:02:40 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/14/2014 10:53 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
He is currently building a rolling press for titanium. We will be able
to take a 18"x36" billet and roll it out to any thickness the client
needs

I don't even want to -guess- what a 20' stick that size would cost.


I can't imagine the energy and rigidity needed...and the cost. I hope
Gunner posts pix!

They'd have to work it AWFULLY DAMNED HOT, wot?

They hot-roll titanium at temperatures similar to those for rolling
steel. It's no more than cherry-red, but I don't know the exact temps.
I saw them rolling the stuff at RTI International around 35 years ago.

Outside of the titanium producers themselves, such as RTI, titanium
typically is rolled in stainless-steel processeing mills, on the same
stands used for stainless. It's tough, but it's not ridiculous.

Titanium is kinda like Nylon - bends, stretches and gives, just doesn't
break or crack.

A barrel can't be made with Titanium because it would bulge on standard
bullets.

Right. Its Young's Modulus is very low relative to its strength. It
springs too easily for a gun barrel.


It is one metal added to others to prevent cracking under repeated
flexing. The mixture of Ti and AL proved fantastic for very high speed
jets and very heavy loaded jets. Wing flex would crack pure Al.

Well, the main reason for using titanium for aircraft skins is that
aluminum is limited to around Mach 2 because of its low heat
resistance. That's what limited the speed of the Concorde.

--
Ed Huntress


Martin

On 12/15/2014 10:08 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 07:36:09 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:02:40 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/14/2014 10:53 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
He is currently building a rolling press for titanium. We will be able
to take a 18"x36" billet and roll it out to any thickness the client
needs

I don't even want to -guess- what a 20' stick that size would cost.


I can't imagine the energy and rigidity needed...and the cost. I hope
Gunner posts pix!

They'd have to work it AWFULLY DAMNED HOT, wot?

They hot-roll titanium at temperatures similar to those for rolling
steel. It's no more than cherry-red, but I don't know the exact temps.
I saw them rolling the stuff at RTI International around 35 years ago.

Outside of the titanium producers themselves, such as RTI, titanium
typically is rolled in stainless-steel processeing mills, on the same
stands used for stainless. It's tough, but it's not ridiculous.

Cuts well on the LASERs and we use the same settings as for stainless.

David

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 20:02:31 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 10:51:00 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 07:36:09 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:02:40 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/14/2014 10:53 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
He is currently building a rolling press for titanium. We will be able
to take a 18"x36" billet and roll it out to any thickness the client
needs

I don't even want to -guess- what a 20' stick that size would cost.


I can't imagine the energy and rigidity needed...and the cost. I hope
Gunner posts pix!

They'd have to work it AWFULLY DAMNED HOT, wot?

Worked cold from what I gather. The gear box is 6' tall, 8" long and
3' thick and all the shafts are at minimum...8" in diameter. The
biggest gear is 12" thick, 4' in diameter and is herringbone cut. It
will be run by a 50 HP motor from what I understand.

Yikes!


Obviously one wont be taking a 18" thick billet and turning it into a
4" thick billet in one pass.

Why not? g


Its fun loading the 5" horizontal boring mill with parts requiring a
forklift to lift em to the table ..which is 6'x6'

Kinda like old shipyards, huh?


the empty gear box weighs probably ..hummm 10,000 lbs

Oh, the light-duty model, is it?


the side walls of the gearbox were welded from 4" plate (very very
nice welding job too...beautifully done)

Robotic or human?

Actually..done by hand with what looks like 1/4 or 3/8" welding rod.
Beautifuly laid with about a 1" deep fillet at the radius. I shoot
some photos this week. The welder was a real pro.


The roller assembly housings were made from 12" plate and each are 5'
wide, and 6' tall, and the adjustment screws are 6" acme thread..heat
treated.

Crikey, she's a beast!

Titanium is rather soft and very "gummy" but its still tougher than
aluminum by a fair amount.


I bought some titanium soldering picks today from RioGrande. They
were on sale for $9 for the set of 3. Solder evidently doesn't stick
to them, and I've had problems with soldering lately, so I thought I'd
try 'em. So, next week, I can hoist the soldering iron in one hand,
the pick in 3 fingers of the other, and the solder in the finger and
thumb of that other, and get a wire held down while it's being
soldered up under my truck bumper. The 10W LEDs should be in just
before Christmas. I worked late tonight and the little 3W LEDS have
helped, but I still want more light when backing.

What..wire nuts arent good enough for you like most people????

(Grin)

Gunner, who has lots of shrink tube on hand for jobs like that



"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 21:44:43 -0600, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

On 12/15/2014 10:08 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 07:36:09 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:02:40 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/14/2014 10:53 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
He is currently building a rolling press for titanium. We will be able
to take a 18"x36" billet and roll it out to any thickness the client
needs

I don't even want to -guess- what a 20' stick that size would cost.


I can't imagine the energy and rigidity needed...and the cost. I hope
Gunner posts pix!

They'd have to work it AWFULLY DAMNED HOT, wot?

They hot-roll titanium at temperatures similar to those for rolling
steel. It's no more than cherry-red, but I don't know the exact temps.
I saw them rolling the stuff at RTI International around 35 years ago.

Outside of the titanium producers themselves, such as RTI, titanium
typically is rolled in stainless-steel processeing mills, on the same
stands used for stainless. It's tough, but it's not ridiculous.

Titanium is kinda like Nylon - bends, stretches and gives, just doesn't
break or crack.

A barrel can't be made with Titanium because it would bulge on standard
bullets.

It is one metal added to others to prevent cracking under repeated
flexing. The mixture of Ti and AL proved fantastic for very high speed
jets and very heavy loaded jets. Wing flex would crack pure Al.

Martin

I honestly do not know if it will be rolled hot or cold. I do know
that there are a number of handing tools and tracks and stuff that are
part of the project. Ill ask my buddy for more information and
allowing me to take photos.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 21:44:43 -0600, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

On 12/15/2014 10:08 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 07:36:09 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:02:40 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/14/2014 10:53 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
He is currently building a rolling press for titanium. We will be able
to take a 18"x36" billet and roll it out to any thickness the client
needs

I don't even want to -guess- what a 20' stick that size would cost.


I can't imagine the energy and rigidity needed...and the cost. I hope
Gunner posts pix!

They'd have to work it AWFULLY DAMNED HOT, wot?

They hot-roll titanium at temperatures similar to those for rolling
steel. It's no more than cherry-red, but I don't know the exact temps.
I saw them rolling the stuff at RTI International around 35 years ago.

Outside of the titanium producers themselves, such as RTI, titanium
typically is rolled in stainless-steel processeing mills, on the same
stands used for stainless. It's tough, but it's not ridiculous.

Titanium is kinda like Nylon - bends, stretches and gives, just doesn't
break or crack.

A barrel can't be made with Titanium because it would bulge on standard
bullets.

It is one metal added to others to prevent cracking under repeated
flexing. The mixture of Ti and AL proved fantastic for very high speed
jets and very heavy loaded jets. Wing flex would crack pure Al.

Martin

The B-52's aluminum wings are said to flex 18 feet :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 12/15/2014 7:11 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

I certainly will. Its costing the client about 1/4 mill and was
designed by a German....shrug

Gunner

We Germans almost took over the world! And, the world might have been
better for it!

On 12/15/2014 7:10 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Ill post photos of both if anyone is interested.





Please! My Schnauzers will bolt given the chance, I'm told not to be
offended, it's the breed. It took a year to make the courtyard escape
proof. They would dig through the river rock to get under the fence. I
had to bury concrete blocks in the river rock. (one big French drain)

People have always brought them home commenting on how sweet they are.
One guy put the two strange dogs in the backseat with his newborn and
said he didn't think twice about it. When Rockwell goes on Safari
alone, he always finds a cute girl to bring him home...and I swear he's
smiling.

On 2014-12-15, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:02:40 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/14/2014 10:53 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
He is currently building a rolling press for titanium. We will be able
to take a 18"x36" billet and roll it out to any thickness the client
needs

I don't even want to -guess- what a 20' stick that size would cost.


I can't imagine the energy and rigidity needed...and the cost. I hope
Gunner posts pix!

I certainly will. Its costing the client about 1/4 mill and was
designed by a German....shrug

This price seems to be very low for the stated capability.

i

On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 07:23:54 -0600, Ignoramus18844
wrote:

On 2014-12-15, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:02:40 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/14/2014 10:53 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
He is currently building a rolling press for titanium. We will be able
to take a 18"x36" billet and roll it out to any thickness the client
needs

I don't even want to -guess- what a 20' stick that size would cost.


I can't imagine the energy and rigidity needed...and the cost. I hope
Gunner posts pix!

I certainly will. Its costing the client about 1/4 mill and was
designed by a German....shrug

This price seems to be very low for the stated capability.

i

My buddy runs a conventional machine shop. Zero CNC ...well he does
have a Mazak mill..but he bought it at an auction, and it has
issues...which we have never gotten around to working on.

He used to be a GE field service guy for years..then went into rigging
and repair on his own. He is one of the finest, best "master
machinists" Ive ever dealt with. There isnt a time I go in there that
I dont learn something from him. The dude is a freaking genius on
building/rebuilding big machinery. He claims he isnt a "machinist"
but a repair guy...but his skill set puts just about every machinist
Ive worked with to shame. He would be considered a "tool and die
maker". in every shop around...if tool and dies generally included
500-50,000 pound assemblies

He has asked me to machine parts for him..and Ive done some easy
stuff, but...I am NOT a machinist and Ive told him that over and over
again. So I keep the mechanical bits running and the electrical and
air and whatnot up to snuff and in production.

Hell of a nice guy too.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 07:23:54 -0600, Ignoramus18844
wrote:

On 2014-12-15, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:02:40 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/14/2014 10:53 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
He is currently building a rolling press for titanium. We will be able
to take a 18"x36" billet and roll it out to any thickness the client
needs

I don't even want to -guess- what a 20' stick that size would cost.


I can't imagine the energy and rigidity needed...and the cost. I hope
Gunner posts pix!

I certainly will. Its costing the client about 1/4 mill and was
designed by a German....shrug

This price seems to be very low for the stated capability.

i

Is that the polite way of calling bull****?

--
Ned Simmons

On 2014-12-16, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 07:23:54 -0600, Ignoramus18844
wrote:

On 2014-12-15, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:02:40 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/14/2014 10:53 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
He is currently building a rolling press for titanium. We will be able
to take a 18"x36" billet and roll it out to any thickness the client
needs

I don't even want to -guess- what a 20' stick that size would cost.


I can't imagine the energy and rigidity needed...and the cost. I hope
Gunner posts pix!

I certainly will. Its costing the client about 1/4 mill and was
designed by a German....shrug

This price seems to be very low for the stated capability.

i

Is that the polite way of calling bull****?


Not yet, I just expected that to cost a lot more money.

i

On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 08:08:56 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/15/2014 7:10 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Ill post photos of both if anyone is interested.





Please! My Schnauzers will bolt given the chance, I'm told not to be
offended, it's the breed. It took a year to make the courtyard escape
proof. They would dig through the river rock to get under the fence. I
had to bury concrete blocks in the river rock. (one big French drain)

People have always brought them home commenting on how sweet they are.
One guy put the two strange dogs in the backseat with his newborn and
said he didn't think twice about it. When Rockwell goes on Safari
alone, he always finds a cute girl to bring him home...and I swear he's
smiling.

Sounds like a beagle. My son's (now ours, funny how that happens) is
old enough he doesn't get out much any more. But I swear, beagles
view us as interchangable bipedal units, handy for warmth, food,
water, etc.

In the old days, he'd get out, follow his nose until he needed
sustenance, then find the nearest bipedal unit, and we'd get a call.

Pete Keillor

On Tuesday, December 16, 2014 7:31:16 AM UTC-8, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 07:23:54 -0600, Ignoramus18844
wrote:

On 2014-12-15, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:02:40 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/14/2014 10:53 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
He is currently building a rolling press for titanium. We will be able
to take a 18"x36" billet and roll it out to any thickness the client
needs

I don't even want to -guess- what a 20' stick that size would cost.


I can't imagine the energy and rigidity needed...and the cost. I hope
Gunner posts pix!

I certainly will. Its costing the client about 1/4 mill and was
designed by a German....shrug

This price seems to be very low for the stated capability.

i

Is that the polite way of calling bull****?

--
Ned Simmons


See:

Mark R. Wieber (a.k.a. Gunner) Cliff Notes Version 12

Larry Jaques wrote:

I bought some titanium soldering picks today from RioGrande. They
were on sale for $9 for the set of 3. Solder evidently doesn't stick
to them, and I've had problems with soldering lately, so I thought I'd
try 'em. So, next week, I can hoist the soldering iron in one hand,
the pick in 3 fingers of the other, and the solder in the finger and
thumb of that other, and get a wire held down while it's being
soldered up under my truck bumper. The 10W LEDs should be in just
before Christmas. I worked late tonight and the little 3W LEDS have
helped, but I still want more light when backing.

--
Obstacles are those frightful things you
see when you take your eyes off your goal.
--Henry Ford


http://www.amazon.com/Gizmo-Light-Po...ork+Light+Lamp

or http://tinyurl.com/ksru96e

Know folks using them. Seem to kick out a lot of light. Have 4 on order
to test out myself.

--
Steve W.

On 12/15/2014 10:03 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 21:44:43 -0600, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

On 12/15/2014 10:08 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 07:36:09 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:02:40 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/14/2014 10:53 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
He is currently building a rolling press for titanium. We will be able
to take a 18"x36" billet and roll it out to any thickness the client
needs

I don't even want to -guess- what a 20' stick that size would cost.


I can't imagine the energy and rigidity needed...and the cost. I hope
Gunner posts pix!

They'd have to work it AWFULLY DAMNED HOT, wot?

They hot-roll titanium at temperatures similar to those for rolling
steel. It's no more than cherry-red, but I don't know the exact temps.
I saw them rolling the stuff at RTI International around 35 years ago.

Outside of the titanium producers themselves, such as RTI, titanium
typically is rolled in stainless-steel processeing mills, on the same
stands used for stainless. It's tough, but it's not ridiculous.

Titanium is kinda like Nylon - bends, stretches and gives, just doesn't
break or crack.

A barrel can't be made with Titanium because it would bulge on standard
bullets.

Right. Its Young's Modulus is very low relative to its strength. It
springs too easily for a gun barrel.


It is one metal added to others to prevent cracking under repeated
flexing. The mixture of Ti and AL proved fantastic for very high speed
jets and very heavy loaded jets. Wing flex would crack pure Al.

Well, the main reason for using titanium for aircraft skins is that
aluminum is limited to around Mach 2 because of its low heat
resistance. That's what limited the speed of the Concorde.

And in 1947 or so, the wings were cracking off planes. Took a long time
on shaker tables to determine the cause. A burnt up pile isn't
much to look at on the ground. I seem to recall 2000 hours was the
cracking line.

Martin

On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 21:15:48 -0600, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

On 12/15/2014 10:03 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 21:44:43 -0600, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

On 12/15/2014 10:08 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 07:36:09 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:02:40 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/14/2014 10:53 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
He is currently building a rolling press for titanium. We will be able
to take a 18"x36" billet and roll it out to any thickness the client
needs

I don't even want to -guess- what a 20' stick that size would cost.


I can't imagine the energy and rigidity needed...and the cost. I hope
Gunner posts pix!

They'd have to work it AWFULLY DAMNED HOT, wot?

They hot-roll titanium at temperatures similar to those for rolling
steel. It's no more than cherry-red, but I don't know the exact temps.
I saw them rolling the stuff at RTI International around 35 years ago.

Outside of the titanium producers themselves, such as RTI, titanium
typically is rolled in stainless-steel processeing mills, on the same
stands used for stainless. It's tough, but it's not ridiculous.

Titanium is kinda like Nylon - bends, stretches and gives, just doesn't
break or crack.

A barrel can't be made with Titanium because it would bulge on standard
bullets.

Right. Its Young's Modulus is very low relative to its strength. It
springs too easily for a gun barrel.


It is one metal added to others to prevent cracking under repeated
flexing. The mixture of Ti and AL proved fantastic for very high speed
jets and very heavy loaded jets. Wing flex would crack pure Al.

Well, the main reason for using titanium for aircraft skins is that
aluminum is limited to around Mach 2 because of its low heat
resistance. That's what limited the speed of the Concorde.

And in 1947 or so, the wings were cracking off planes. Took a long time
on shaker tables to determine the cause. A burnt up pile isn't
much to look at on the ground. I seem to recall 2000 hours was the
cracking line.

Martin

The special materials requirements of fast aircraft is a really
interesting field, which I had time to explore a bit decades ago, when
I was materials editor at _American Machinist_. But it's one of those
things you can't study halfway, and I haven't tried to keep up with
it. Fortunately, what I learned then is more than I'll ever need to
know for hobby metalworking.

Speaking of which, two important groups of aluminum alloys we use
today are the products of warplane development. Our 2000 series is a
descendant of the WWI German development of Duralumin, used for
warplane skins and structure as early as 1917. And the specific alloy
7075, used for M16 receivers as well as for aircraft, was created by
Sumitomo Metals and first used for the airframe of the Mitsubishi
Zero.

7000 Series aluminum alloys contain a very small amount of titanium,
typically 1/10 of 1%, as a grain refiner. That may be what you're
thinking of. It could have an effect on fatigue resistance; I've never
looked for it.

--
Ed Huntress

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 20:48:09 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 20:02:31 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:
Crikey, she's a beast!

Titanium is rather soft and very "gummy" but its still tougher than
aluminum by a fair amount.

Got it, soft but tough. Gummy when milling/drilling, like some
aluminums?


I bought some titanium soldering picks today from RioGrande. They
were on sale for $9 for the set of 3. Solder evidently doesn't stick
to them, and I've had problems with soldering lately, so I thought I'd
try 'em. So, next week, I can hoist the soldering iron in one hand,
the pick in 3 fingers of the other, and the solder in the finger and
thumb of that other, and get a wire held down while it's being
soldered up under my truck bumper. The 10W LEDs should be in just
before Christmas. I worked late tonight and the little 3W LEDS have
helped, but I still want more light when backing.

What..wire nuts arent good enough for you like most people????

Hayull no.


(Grin)

Gunner, who has lots of shrink tube on hand for jobs like that

How does one shrink an uncut wire? I slice off a bit of insulation
and solder the new tiny wire onto the existing run. Then I wrap with
black tape, as I always have. I used to make/repair (or replace, when
available) harnesses for the body shop when vehicular looms were
damaged. Back in the '70s, I found a roll of electrical tape in a
wrapping holder and used the heck out of it. And I just recently found
it again, so I've been happily using it again. It's just a cheap
little piece of plastic (2 pieces, actually) but it makes wrapping
wires into harnesses a piece of cake.

--
Obstacles are those frightful things you
see when you take your eyes off your goal.
--Henry Ford

On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 09:48:59 -0600, Ignoramus18844
wrote:

On 2014-12-16, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 07:23:54 -0600, Ignoramus18844
wrote:

On 2014-12-15, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:02:40 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/14/2014 10:53 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
He is currently building a rolling press for titanium. We will be able
to take a 18"x36" billet and roll it out to any thickness the client
needs

I don't even want to -guess- what a 20' stick that size would cost.


I can't imagine the energy and rigidity needed...and the cost. I hope
Gunner posts pix!

I certainly will. Its costing the client about 1/4 mill and was
designed by a German....shrug

This price seems to be very low for the stated capability.

i

Is that the polite way of calling bull****?


Not yet, I just expected that to cost a lot more money.

i

OK, I'll say it. Building the mill Gunner described for 1/4 million is
a load of crap. I've done a fair amount of work designing and building
peripherals for such a mill, and my work was a significant fraction of
$250K. I happen to know that just a single set of rolls (it took 3
sets to keep the mill in production) ran around $40K.

--
Ned Simmons

On 12/16/2014 4:56 PM, Pete Keillor wrote:
On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 08:08:56 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/15/2014 7:10 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Ill post photos of both if anyone is interested.





Please! My Schnauzers will bolt given the chance, I'm told not to be
offended, it's the breed. It took a year to make the courtyard escape
proof. They would dig through the river rock to get under the fence. I
had to bury concrete blocks in the river rock. (one big French drain)

People have always brought them home commenting on how sweet they are.
One guy put the two strange dogs in the backseat with his newborn and
said he didn't think twice about it. When Rockwell goes on Safari
alone, he always finds a cute girl to bring him home...and I swear he's
smiling.

Sounds like a beagle. My son's (now ours, funny how that happens) is
old enough he doesn't get out much any more. But I swear, beagles
view us as interchangable bipedal units, handy for warmth, food,
water, etc.

In the old days, he'd get out, follow his nose until he needed
sustenance, then find the nearest bipedal unit, and we'd get a call.

Pete Keillor



Like most dogs, mine have never experienced ill will from people or
other animals. The world is their oyster. They consider people their
servants like yours does.

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:02:40 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/14/2014 10:53 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
He is currently building a rolling press for titanium. We will be able
to take a 18"x36" billet and roll it out to any thickness the client
needs

I don't even want to -guess- what a 20' stick that size would cost.


I can't imagine the energy and rigidity needed...and the cost. I hope
Gunner posts pix!

I certainly will. Its costing the client about 1/4 mill and was
designed by a German....shrug


Not Sgt. Shultz, I hope. ;-)


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Thu, 25 Dec 2014 15:33:49 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:02:40 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/14/2014 10:53 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
He is currently building a rolling press for titanium. We will be able
to take a 18"x36" billet and roll it out to any thickness the client
needs

I don't even want to -guess- what a 20' stick that size would cost.


I can't imagine the energy and rigidity needed...and the cost. I hope
Gunner posts pix!

I certainly will. Its costing the client about 1/4 mill and was
designed by a German....shrug


Not Sgt. Shultz, I hope. ;-)

Nope! Though there is some resemblance.....but much younger...laugh

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Thu, 25 Dec 2014 15:33:49 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:02:40 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/14/2014 10:53 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
He is currently building a rolling press for titanium. We will be able
to take a 18"x36" billet and roll it out to any thickness the client
needs

I don't even want to -guess- what a 20' stick that size would cost.


I can't imagine the energy and rigidity needed...and the cost. I hope
Gunner posts pix!

I certainly will. Its costing the client about 1/4 mill and was
designed by a German....shrug


Not Sgt. Shultz, I hope. ;-)

Nope! Though there is some resemblance.....but much younger...laugh


I was just checking!


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.