There was a fairly long article in The Wall Street Journal on how the
car makers are using new kinds of adhesives to glue and rivet cars
together, to reduce weight. This is being done with aluminum and
steel. One problem with aluminum is that it's hard to spotweld.

"Super Glue Holds Your Car Together - Those Aren't Bolts Holding Your
Car Together", James R. Hagerty and Mike Ramsey, page B1 of the 9
September 2014 issue of the WSJ.

Unfortunately, it's behind a paywall, but just about every library in
the country gets the WSJ.

Joe Gwinn

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 15:21:22 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

There was a fairly long article in The Wall Street Journal on how the
car makers are using new kinds of adhesives to glue and rivet cars
together, to reduce weight. This is being done with aluminum and
steel. One problem with aluminum is that it's hard to spotweld.

"Super Glue Holds Your Car Together - Those Aren't Bolts Holding Your
Car Together", James R. Hagerty and Mike Ramsey, page B1 of the 9
September 2014 issue of the WSJ.

Unfortunately, it's behind a paywall, but just about every library in
the country gets the WSJ.

Joe Gwinn

Thanks, Joe. I'll be using that one.

Often you can sneak up on a WSJ article without going through the
paywall. In this case, they've changed the headline of the article, so
it's a little trickier.

This does it. In Google or whatever, search on "Super Glues Are the
Secret to Making Cars Lighter." Use the quotes, or not. Try the WSJ
article. Usually, you can get in (I just did). There will be popups
asking you to subscibe but you can just close them.

Another joining method under development is laser welding. It solves
some problems they've had with conventional spot welding in AHSS
(Advanced High-Strength Steel).

--
Ed Huntress

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 15:21:22 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

There was a fairly long article in The Wall Street Journal on how the
car makers are using new kinds of adhesives to glue and rivet cars
together, to reduce weight. This is being done with aluminum and
steel. One problem with aluminum is that it's hard to spotweld.

"Super Glue Holds Your Car Together - Those Aren't Bolts Holding Your
Car Together", James R. Hagerty and Mike Ramsey, page B1 of the 9
September 2014 issue of the WSJ.

Unfortunately, it's behind a paywall, but just about every library in
the country gets the WSJ.

Joe Gwinn

Thanks, Joe. I'll be using that one.

Welcome.


Often you can sneak up on a WSJ article without going through the
paywall. In this case, they've changed the headline of the article, so
it's a little trickier.

This does it. In Google or whatever, search on "Super Glues Are the
Secret to Making Cars Lighter." Use the quotes, or not. Try the WSJ
article. Usually, you can get in (I just did). There will be popups
asking you to subscibe but you can just close them.

I'll try this too. I have paid electronic access to the WSJ (costs a
little more when got as a package with the dead-tree version), but many
RCM folk get neither.


Another joining method under development is laser welding. It solves
some problems they've had with conventional spot welding in AHSS
(Advanced High-Strength Steel).

Or laser weld plus glue, for all the same reasons?

Joe Gwinn

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 15:49:23 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 15:21:22 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

There was a fairly long article in The Wall Street Journal on how the
car makers are using new kinds of adhesives to glue and rivet cars
together, to reduce weight. This is being done with aluminum and
steel. One problem with aluminum is that it's hard to spotweld.

"Super Glue Holds Your Car Together - Those Aren't Bolts Holding Your
Car Together", James R. Hagerty and Mike Ramsey, page B1 of the 9
September 2014 issue of the WSJ.

Unfortunately, it's behind a paywall, but just about every library in
the country gets the WSJ.

Joe Gwinn

Thanks, Joe. I'll be using that one.

Welcome.


Often you can sneak up on a WSJ article without going through the
paywall. In this case, they've changed the headline of the article, so
it's a little trickier.

This does it. In Google or whatever, search on "Super Glues Are the
Secret to Making Cars Lighter." Use the quotes, or not. Try the WSJ
article. Usually, you can get in (I just did). There will be popups
asking you to subscibe but you can just close them.

I'll try this too. I have paid electronic access to the WSJ (costs a
little more when got as a package with the dead-tree version), but many
RCM folk get neither.


Another joining method under development is laser welding. It solves
some problems they've had with conventional spot welding in AHSS
(Advanced High-Strength Steel).

Or laser weld plus glue, for all the same reasons?

Joe Gwinn

I don't know yet. I've been working on other things, but I'll be
getting to it soon.

We had a discussion here a week or two ago in which it was pointed out
that the use of adhesives in car assembly is a bit different from
their use in aircraft. Especially when they're using a combined method
-- rivet bonding or weld bonding -- you have to look carefully at what
they're trying to accomplish. Sometimes they're just trying to avoid
peel and cleavage loads on the adhesive by using the rivets or welds
at the edges, as in aircraft assembly. Other times they're trying to
use the adhesive to avoid repreated shear loads on the metal
fasteners, which tends to loosen the rivets or overload the welds.

When I get to it, and write something, I'll post a link.

--
Ed Huntress

On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 13:44:26 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 15:49:23 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 15:21:22 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

There was a fairly long article in The Wall Street Journal on how the
car makers are using new kinds of adhesives to glue and rivet cars
together, to reduce weight. This is being done with aluminum and
steel. One problem with aluminum is that it's hard to spotweld.

"Super Glue Holds Your Car Together - Those Aren't Bolts Holding Your
Car Together", James R. Hagerty and Mike Ramsey, page B1 of the 9
September 2014 issue of the WSJ.

Unfortunately, it's behind a paywall, but just about every library in
the country gets the WSJ.

Joe Gwinn

Thanks, Joe. I'll be using that one.

Welcome.


Often you can sneak up on a WSJ article without going through the
paywall. In this case, they've changed the headline of the article, so
it's a little trickier.

This does it. In Google or whatever, search on "Super Glues Are the
Secret to Making Cars Lighter." Use the quotes, or not. Try the WSJ
article. Usually, you can get in (I just did). There will be popups
asking you to subscibe but you can just close them.

I'll try this too. I have paid electronic access to the WSJ (costs a
little more when got as a package with the dead-tree version), but many
RCM folk get neither.


Another joining method under development is laser welding. It solves
some problems they've had with conventional spot welding in AHSS
(Advanced High-Strength Steel).

Or laser weld plus glue, for all the same reasons?

Joe Gwinn

They have been using adhesives in aircraft for decades. I helped
installed a Night Sun on a Bell Ranger for a company I worked for back
in the early 1990s and we used A1 Metalset for most of the attachments
(which looked identical to JB Weld)

http://www.silmid.com/products/locti...475-500gm.aspx

One maker, as an example

Gunner

Yeah, the major aircraft makers have been using rivet bonding, using
epoxy, since the '70s. Mostly it's been for wing and fuselage skins. I
wrote my first article about it around 1978.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 17:46:40 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 13:44:26 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 15:49:23 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 15:21:22 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

There was a fairly long article in The Wall Street Journal on how the
car makers are using new kinds of adhesives to glue and rivet cars
together, to reduce weight. This is being done with aluminum and
steel. One problem with aluminum is that it's hard to spotweld.

"Super Glue Holds Your Car Together - Those Aren't Bolts Holding Your
Car Together", James R. Hagerty and Mike Ramsey, page B1 of the 9
September 2014 issue of the WSJ.

Unfortunately, it's behind a paywall, but just about every library in
the country gets the WSJ.

Joe Gwinn

Thanks, Joe. I'll be using that one.

Welcome.


Often you can sneak up on a WSJ article without going through the
paywall. In this case, they've changed the headline of the article, so
it's a little trickier.

This does it. In Google or whatever, search on "Super Glues Are the
Secret to Making Cars Lighter." Use the quotes, or not. Try the WSJ
article. Usually, you can get in (I just did). There will be popups
asking you to subscibe but you can just close them.

I'll try this too. I have paid electronic access to the WSJ (costs a
little more when got as a package with the dead-tree version), but many
RCM folk get neither.


Another joining method under development is laser welding. It solves
some problems they've had with conventional spot welding in AHSS
(Advanced High-Strength Steel).

Or laser weld plus glue, for all the same reasons?

Joe Gwinn

They have been using adhesives in aircraft for decades. I helped
installed a Night Sun on a Bell Ranger for a company I worked for back
in the early 1990s and we used A1 Metalset for most of the attachments
(which looked identical to JB Weld)

http://www.silmid.com/products/locti...475-500gm.aspx

One maker, as an example

Gunner

Yeah, the major aircraft makers have been using rivet bonding, using
epoxy, since the '70s. Mostly it's been for wing and fuselage skins. I
wrote my first article about it around 1978.
Did work too well for Grumman. Can't remember off hand if it was the
Yankee or what the model was, but they have virtually 0 resale value
because of bonding and corrosion issues.

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 19:01:59 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 17:46:40 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 13:44:26 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 15:49:23 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 15:21:22 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

There was a fairly long article in The Wall Street Journal on how the
car makers are using new kinds of adhesives to glue and rivet cars
together, to reduce weight. This is being done with aluminum and
steel. One problem with aluminum is that it's hard to spotweld.

"Super Glue Holds Your Car Together - Those Aren't Bolts Holding Your
Car Together", James R. Hagerty and Mike Ramsey, page B1 of the 9
September 2014 issue of the WSJ.

Unfortunately, it's behind a paywall, but just about every library in
the country gets the WSJ.

Joe Gwinn

Thanks, Joe. I'll be using that one.

Welcome.


Often you can sneak up on a WSJ article without going through the
paywall. In this case, they've changed the headline of the article, so
it's a little trickier.

This does it. In Google or whatever, search on "Super Glues Are the
Secret to Making Cars Lighter." Use the quotes, or not. Try the WSJ
article. Usually, you can get in (I just did). There will be popups
asking you to subscibe but you can just close them.

I'll try this too. I have paid electronic access to the WSJ (costs a
little more when got as a package with the dead-tree version), but many
RCM folk get neither.


Another joining method under development is laser welding. It solves
some problems they've had with conventional spot welding in AHSS
(Advanced High-Strength Steel).

Or laser weld plus glue, for all the same reasons?

Joe Gwinn

They have been using adhesives in aircraft for decades. I helped
installed a Night Sun on a Bell Ranger for a company I worked for back
in the early 1990s and we used A1 Metalset for most of the attachments
(which looked identical to JB Weld)

http://www.silmid.com/products/locti...475-500gm.aspx

One maker, as an example

Gunner

Yeah, the major aircraft makers have been using rivet bonding, using
epoxy, since the '70s. Mostly it's been for wing and fuselage skins. I
wrote my first article about it around 1978.
Did work too well for Grumman. Can't remember off hand if it was the
Yankee or what the model was, but they have virtually 0 resale value
because of bonding and corrosion issues.

Like most things to do with aircraft, it took a while to get it right.
Epoxy and aluminum are not an easy marriage.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 19:27:17 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 19:01:59 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 17:46:40 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 13:44:26 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 15:49:23 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 15:21:22 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

There was a fairly long article in The Wall Street Journal on how the
car makers are using new kinds of adhesives to glue and rivet cars
together, to reduce weight. This is being done with aluminum and
steel. One problem with aluminum is that it's hard to spotweld.

"Super Glue Holds Your Car Together - Those Aren't Bolts Holding Your
Car Together", James R. Hagerty and Mike Ramsey, page B1 of the 9
September 2014 issue of the WSJ.

Unfortunately, it's behind a paywall, but just about every library in
the country gets the WSJ.

Joe Gwinn

Thanks, Joe. I'll be using that one.

Welcome.


Often you can sneak up on a WSJ article without going through the
paywall. In this case, they've changed the headline of the article, so
it's a little trickier.

This does it. In Google or whatever, search on "Super Glues Are the
Secret to Making Cars Lighter." Use the quotes, or not. Try the WSJ
article. Usually, you can get in (I just did). There will be popups
asking you to subscibe but you can just close them.

I'll try this too. I have paid electronic access to the WSJ (costs a
little more when got as a package with the dead-tree version), but many
RCM folk get neither.


Another joining method under development is laser welding. It solves
some problems they've had with conventional spot welding in AHSS
(Advanced High-Strength Steel).

Or laser weld plus glue, for all the same reasons?

Joe Gwinn

They have been using adhesives in aircraft for decades. I helped
installed a Night Sun on a Bell Ranger for a company I worked for back
in the early 1990s and we used A1 Metalset for most of the attachments
(which looked identical to JB Weld)

http://www.silmid.com/products/locti...475-500gm.aspx

One maker, as an example

Gunner

Yeah, the major aircraft makers have been using rivet bonding, using
epoxy, since the '70s. Mostly it's been for wing and fuselage skins. I
wrote my first article about it around 1978.
Did work too well for Grumman. Can't remember off hand if it was the
Yankee or what the model was, but they have virtually 0 resale value
because of bonding and corrosion issues.

Like most things to do with aircraft, it took a while to get it right.
Epoxy and aluminum are not an easy marriage.
As a plane builder I definitely would not try it. Definitely needs a
(well) engineered solution.

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 15:49:23 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 15:21:22 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

There was a fairly long article in The Wall Street Journal on how the
car makers are using new kinds of adhesives to glue and rivet cars
together, to reduce weight. This is being done with aluminum and
steel. One problem with aluminum is that it's hard to spotweld.

"Super Glue Holds Your Car Together - Those Aren't Bolts Holding Your
Car Together", James R. Hagerty and Mike Ramsey, page B1 of the 9
September 2014 issue of the WSJ.

Unfortunately, it's behind a paywall, but just about every library in
the country gets the WSJ.

Joe Gwinn

Thanks, Joe. I'll be using that one.

Welcome.


Often you can sneak up on a WSJ article without going through the
paywall. In this case, they've changed the headline of the article, so
it's a little trickier.

This does it. In Google or whatever, search on "Super Glues Are the
Secret to Making Cars Lighter." Use the quotes, or not. Try the WSJ
article. Usually, you can get in (I just did). There will be popups
asking you to subscibe but you can just close them.

I'll try this too. I have paid electronic access to the WSJ (costs a
little more when got as a package with the dead-tree version), but many
RCM folk get neither.


Another joining method under development is laser welding. It solves
some problems they've had with conventional spot welding in AHSS
(Advanced High-Strength Steel).

Or laser weld plus glue, for all the same reasons?

Joe Gwinn

They have been using adhesives in aircraft for decades. I helped
installed a Night Sun on a Bell Ranger for a company I worked for back
in the early 1990s and we used A1 Metalset for most of the attachments
(which looked identical to JB Weld)

http://www.silmid.com/products/locti...475-500gm.aspx

One maker, as an example

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

Joe Gwinn wrote:
There was a fairly long article in The Wall Street Journal on how the
car makers are using new kinds of adhesives to glue and rivet cars
together, to reduce weight. This is being done with aluminum and
steel. One problem with aluminum is that it's hard to spotweld.

"Super Glue Holds Your Car Together - Those Aren't Bolts Holding Your
Car Together", James R. Hagerty and Mike Ramsey, page B1 of the 9
September 2014 issue of the WSJ.

Unfortunately, it's behind a paywall, but just about every library in
the country gets the WSJ.

Joe Gwinn

Yep. I use panel bonding on many different repairs. Works a treat when
you're doing something like a rocker panel but don't want to rip the
interior out. If you prep the panels correctly, use the proper adhesive
in the correct temperature and it holds VERY well. Plus it has the
advantage of acting as a sealant so the seam doesn't rot out.
Quite a few vehicles out there with some bonded panels.

Went to a class for the new Ford aluminum repairs. Fun stuff. I'm really
glad I won't be doing those repairs for a LONG time. Already have enough
money tied up in the rest of my gear.

--
Steve W.