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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT. Personal dilemma
I dug myself a hole, now I want out.
My mother died 2-1/2 years ago and left her house to myself and my sister. My sister was living there taking care of mom for about six months. Now sis and her girlfriend are living in the house. Both in their middle 50s. Since she was helping mom, sis's name was on the bank account. The cash assets left were about $20k in a bank account with sis's name on it. And about $20k is what I gave mom to live on over the later years. When I ask her to send me half (basically my own money) she said, she needed it to fix the house. The lawyer said her name is on the account, it is her money. Now 2-1/2 years later, the money has been spent. The house has no repairs. I would like her to have the house, (It is all she has except debt) but I am reluctant to give her a contract, because I don't think she will pay me, the first time money is tight. (money is always tight for her). The latest, she is trying to get here finances straightened out so she can get a mortgage. She works about 30 hrs a week, and I doubt she will get a mortgage, I think this will just delay a sale until next summer rolls around. Property is in the north, not many sales in the winter. I'm looking for options. She has a 50% equity in a $45,000 house. Any thoughts how to extricate myself from this with some money. I could make a contract, what clauses could I put in so I could get them out if they didn't make payments or maybe subtract all delayed payments from her share at the sale. (not what I want) I just want out with as close to $20k as possible. Mikek --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT. Personal dilemma
You didn't word it exactly like this, but basically you want to sell her
your 1/2 of the house and take her mortgage for that amount (which is like her putting 50% down - her 1/2). A 10 year 4% mortgage for $22,500 means a $230/month payment. Surely she could pay that. A mortgage with all the standard clauses gives you the right to foreclose for failure to pay, sell the house, and have first dibs on the proceeds. Foreclosing is probably not a real option for you, but having a mortgage that has that in it makes it more likely that she will pay. You can't get blood out of a stone, as they say, so your best bet is a mortgage that she CAN pay, regardless of the terms. E.g., a 20 year mortgage with $120/mo payments is still better than nothing. If she doesn't want to buy your half, you do have the right to force a sale to get your half. Also probably something that you don't want to do, but does give you some negotiating leverage. Good luck - your situation is one of the more unfortunate ones that come with "family". Bob |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT. Personal dilemma
On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 6:36:24 PM UTC-4, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
You didn't word it exactly like this, but basically you want to sell her your 1/2 of the house and take her mortgage for that amount (which is like her putting 50% down - her 1/2). A 10 year 4% mortgage for $22,500 means a $230/month payment. Surely she could pay that. A mortgage with all the standard clauses gives you the right to foreclose for failure to pay, sell the house, and have first dibs on the proceeds. Foreclosing is probably not a real option for you, but having a mortgage that has that in it makes it more likely that she will pay. You can't get blood out of a stone, as they say, so your best bet is a mortgage that she CAN pay, regardless of the terms. E.g., a 20 year mortgage with $120/mo payments is still better than nothing. If she doesn't want to buy your half, you do have the right to force a sale to get your half. Also probably something that you don't want to do, but does give you some negotiating leverage. Good luck - your situation is one of the more unfortunate ones that come with "family". Bob I'm going to agree with the "Give it up and feel good about yourself" crowd.. Even if you write the most ironclad of contracts, it is (at least round here) virtually impossible to evict someone. The bank account is sealed up in her name, she legally owes you absolutely zero there. You could spend big bucks on lawyers who will not likely get you anything or you could talk with your sister about the situation and let her make a suggestion. An easy way out, maybe is to sell Mom's house and let Sis buy another of her own. |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT. Personal dilemma
On 8/20/2014 9:57 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 6:36:24 PM UTC-4, Bob Engelhardt wrote: You didn't word it exactly like this, but basically you want to sell her If she doesn't want to buy your half, you do have the right to force a sale to get your half. Also probably something that you don't want to do, but does give you some negotiating leverage. Good luck - your situation is one of the more unfortunate ones that come with "family". Bob I'm going to agree with the "Give it up and feel good about yourself" crowd. Even if you write the most ironclad of contracts, it is (at least round here) virtually impossible to evict someone. The bank account is sealed up in her name, she legally owes you absolutely zero there. Yep, the the bank account is in her name, there is no money left, and she has a negative net worth. You could spend big bucks on lawyers who will not likely get you anything or you could talk with your sister about the situation and let her make a suggestion. An easy way out, maybe is to sell Mom's house and let Sis buy another of her own. Here's where I made it worse, I actually signed paperwork with a realtor that she called, I pointed out she should try to stay in the house, because she will never be able to rent any place this cheap. So, she stalled and looked for a mortgage, then after a couple weeks she told me she couldn't get a mortgage, so she would sell it. A couple weeks later the realtor called me, because he could not get a hold of her. I called her and she said, the more she thought about it, she knew there was nothing to rent cheaper than owning the house. Now she is getting her finances in order, so she can get a mortgage. Mikek |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT. Personal dilemma
On 08/21/2014 9:14 AM, amdx wrote:
.... Here's where I made it worse, I actually signed paperwork with a realtor that she called, I pointed out she should try to stay in the house, because she will never be able to rent any place this cheap. So, she stalled and looked for a mortgage, then after a couple weeks she told me she couldn't get a mortgage, so she would sell it. A couple weeks later the realtor called me, because he could not get a hold of her. I called her and she said, the more she thought about it, she knew there was nothing to rent cheaper than owning the house. Now she is getting her finances in order, so she can get a mortgage. .... No idea where this house is located, of course, but depending on those local conditions the idea of downsizing may be a good one. That all depends on those local factors that only can know by being familiar w/ the area. OTOH, if she would put her house in order financially and step up to the plate, that would be _a_good_thing_ (tm) and a major step forward. Whether she feels any moral obligation to make good on the fairness doctrine on split of assets is yet another question that will have much to do with her behavior going forward as well, undoubtedly. Another way to look at value in situations like this is to estimate what the care given was worth in terms of cost-avoidance of outside hired help and/or alternate living costs if mother couldn't have stayed at home otherwise. It may be that part of the issue w/ the money is that there's not a feeling that that effort is appreciated or accounted for otherwise. That again, of course, is from afar w/o knowing anything more of the situation. Something similar occurred here, though, so "been there, done that" on the caregiving side as have many... Just some other things to muddle the mix... -- |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT. Personal dilemma
On 8/21/2014 9:33 AM, dpb wrote:
On 08/21/2014 9:14 AM, amdx wrote: ... Here's where I made it worse, I actually signed paperwork with a realtor that she called, I pointed out she should try to stay in the house, because she will never be able to rent any place this cheap. So, she stalled and looked for a mortgage, then after a couple weeks she told me she couldn't get a mortgage, so she would sell it. A couple weeks later the realtor called me, because he could not get a hold of her. I called her and she said, the more she thought about it, she knew there was nothing to rent cheaper than owning the house. Now she is getting her finances in order, so she can get a mortgage. ... No idea where this house is located, of course, but depending on those local conditions the idea of downsizing may be a good one. That all depends on those local factors that only can know by being familiar w/ the area. OTOH, if she would put her house in order financially and step up to the plate, that would be _a_good_thing_ (tm) and a major step forward. Whether she feels any moral obligation to make good on the fairness doctrine on split of assets is yet another question that will have much to do with her behavior going forward as well, undoubtedly. Another way to look at value in situations like this is to estimate what the care given was worth in terms of cost-avoidance of outside hired help and/or alternate living costs if mother couldn't have stayed at home otherwise. She did care for mom and I have thanked her for that. On the other hand, she and her girlfriend used mom's house to land for several weeks at a time over the years, using mom's meager SS, for housing, hot water, heat, cool and food. She also spent our $20K+ and has had over two years in the house without paying anything for my half. It may be that part of the issue w/ the money is that there's not a feeling that that effort is appreciated or accounted for otherwise. That again, of course, is from afar w/o knowing anything more of the situation. Something similar occurred here, though, so "been there, done that" on the care giving side as have many... Just some other things to muddle the mix... -- Yes, a muddled mix! Mikek |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT. Personal dilemma
On 2014-08-21, amdx wrote:
Here's where I made it worse, I actually signed paperwork with a realtor that she called, I pointed out she should try to stay in the house, because she will never be able to rent any place this cheap. So, she stalled and looked for a mortgage, then after a couple weeks she told me she couldn't get a mortgage, so she would sell it. A couple weeks later the realtor called me, because he could not get a hold of her. I called her and she said, the more she thought about it, she knew there was nothing to rent cheaper than owning the house. Now she is getting her finances in order, so she can get a mortgage. What exactly did you sign? And how can she get a mortgage, without you agreeing, when you own a half of the house? i |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT. Personal dilemma
On 8/21/2014 11:55 AM, Ignoramus10365 wrote:
On 2014-08-21, amdx wrote: Here's where I made it worse, I actually signed paperwork with a realtor that she called, I pointed out she should try to stay in the house, because she will never be able to rent any place this cheap. So, she stalled and looked for a mortgage, then after a couple weeks she told me she couldn't get a mortgage, so she would sell it. A couple weeks later the realtor called me, because he could not get a hold of her. I called her and she said, the more she thought about it, she knew there was nothing to rent cheaper than owning the house. Now she is getting her finances in order, so she can get a mortgage. What exactly did you sign? I signed an agreement to list the property for sale. And how can she get a mortgage, without you agreeing, when you own a half of the house? i Oh, I want her to get a mortgage to pay me for my half. That would be the ideal outcome. She would would have a place to live for the rest of her life and I would have my $20k. It would seem doable, to get a mortgage for 50% of the value. But with her credit and work history, it may be tough. I don't think she has a had a job that pays into SS for 15 years, until just the last 1-1/2 years. Mikek Mikek --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT. Personal dilemma
On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 09:14:34 -0500, amdx wrote:
On 8/20/2014 9:57 PM, rangerssuck wrote: On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 6:36:24 PM UTC-4, Bob Engelhardt wrote: You didn't word it exactly like this, but basically you want to sell her If she doesn't want to buy your half, you do have the right to force a sale to get your half. Also probably something that you don't want to do, but does give you some negotiating leverage. Good luck - your situation is one of the more unfortunate ones that come with "family". Bob I'm going to agree with the "Give it up and feel good about yourself" crowd. Even if you write the most ironclad of contracts, it is (at least round here) virtually impossible to evict someone. The bank account is sealed up in her name, she legally owes you absolutely zero there. Yep, the the bank account is in her name, there is no money left, and she has a negative net worth. You could spend big bucks on lawyers who will not likely get you anything or you could talk with your sister about the situation and let her make a suggestion. An easy way out, maybe is to sell Mom's house and let Sis buy another of her own. Here's where I made it worse, I actually signed paperwork with a realtor that she called, I pointed out she should try to stay in the house, because she will never be able to rent any place this cheap. So, she stalled and looked for a mortgage, then after a couple weeks she told me she couldn't get a mortgage, so she would sell it. A couple weeks later the realtor called me, because he could not get a hold of her. I called her and she said, the more she thought about it, she knew there was nothing to rent cheaper than owning the house. Now she is getting her finances in order, so she can get a mortgage. Mikek Well, you do have a sticky problem - but YOU cannot list the house for sale without her signature. Nor can she list it without your signature. You are both equal partners in the property. You have several options - likely more than I'll list. You can "suck it up" and let her live there untill she dies or wants to move out - at which time you get your half of whatever it is worth at that time. You can buy out her half and do what you want with it - which may involve renting it to her. You can put the house into a corporation, with you two as equal partners, and have her pay rent to the corporation, paying out any "profits" equally to each of you. Her "girlfriend" can share the rent. You can sell her your half, and hold the note at a nominal interest rate. You can sell the note if you can find anyone willing to buy it from you (discounted, of course) You can put everything you own, not just your interest in the house, on the line and co-sign for her. Or you can say "goodbye" to your sister and force a sale and force her out - with her share of the procedes to tide her over for a short while. I went through a situation over the last couple of years .Years ago a younger brother had borrowed money from Dad, then declared personal bankruptsy over the business he had borrowd the money to invest in. This was just after Mom died - and Dad was not interested in handling the bankruptsy disposal -and the trustees got rid of the assets as quickly and easily as they could, getting the primary secured creditors a reasonable amount, but not getting anywhere near what the assets were worth. Dad didn't get a cent. To be fair to the 7 siblings, he stipulated in his will that the amount of the loan, with no interest, was to be with-held from that son's portion at the time of distribution of his estate. Brother was not aware of this,(so is not the reason) and was not in contact with the rest of the family - basically cut himself off from all involvement with the family - suspect it was at least in part the doing of his second wife. Anyway, Dad died - I was one of the executors, and when the will was read, brother was not there although he knew the rest of the family was getting together because youngest brother had to leave to go back to Saskatchewan. We delivered a copy of the will to him and the crap hit the fan. It took several weeks to get him convinced to sign off and let us distribute the estate without having to go through "probate court" which would have reduced the estate to the point he may have not gotten anything. There was discussion of the merits of each of the remaining siblings "throwing in" a portion to equalize what everyone got in an attempt to "keep a brother" - but we decided we had already "lost" him and it would have no positive effect. Took a year to finalize everything and make the final dispursals. A year goes by, with virtually no contact. His wife says she's leaving. He says "she's not getting half of everything I've worked for like my first wife" - takes everything of value from their primary residence, including emptying all the bank accounts, takes his new truck up to their vacation property, and burns everything down around him after shooting himsrlf. Now we had really and totally lost a brother - And my 2 neices and Nephew and their 5 kids lost their father/grandfather/inheritance. So you need to decide how much you value the sister. And go from there. Nothing we could have done could have changed the outcome in our case - he was already gone for all intents and purposes, and $20G more or less would not have changed the eventual outcome. Your situation (hopefully) will have a better outcome. |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT. Personal dilemma
On Friday, August 22, 2014 8:28:12 PM UTC-4, Clare wrote:
On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 09:14:34 -0500, amdx wrote: On 8/20/2014 9:57 PM, rangerssuck wrote: On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 6:36:24 PM UTC-4, Bob Engelhardt wrote: You didn't word it exactly like this, but basically you want to sell her If she doesn't want to buy your half, you do have the right to force a sale to get your half. Also probably something that you don't want to do, but does give you some negotiating leverage. Good luck - your situation is one of the more unfortunate ones that come with "family". I'm going to agree with the "Give it up and feel good about yourself" crowd. Even if you write the most ironclad of contracts, it is (at least round here) virtually impossible to evict someone. The bank account is sealed up in her name, she legally owes you absolutely zero there. Yep, the the bank account is in her name, there is no money left, and she has a negative net worth. You could spend big bucks on lawyers who will not likely get you anything or you could talk with your sister about the situation and let her make a suggestion. An easy way out, maybe is to sell Mom's house and let Sis buy another of her own. Here's where I made it worse, I actually signed paperwork with a realtor that she called, I pointed out she should try to stay in the house, because she will never be able to rent any place this cheap. So, she stalled and looked for a mortgage, then after a couple weeks she told me she couldn't get a mortgage, so she would sell it. A couple weeks later the realtor called me, because he could not get a hold of her. I called her and she said, the more she thought about it, she knew there was nothing to rent cheaper than owning the house. Now she is getting her finances in order, so she can get a mortgage. Mikek Well, you do have a sticky problem - but YOU cannot list the house for sale without her signature. Nor can she list it without your signature. You are both equal partners in the property. You have several options - likely more than I'll list. You can "suck it up" and let her live there untill she dies or wants to move out - at which time you get your half of whatever it is worth at that time. You can buy out her half and do what you want with it - which may involve renting it to her. You can put the house into a corporation, with you two as equal partners, and have her pay rent to the corporation, paying out any "profits" equally to each of you. Her "girlfriend" can share the rent. You can sell her your half, and hold the note at a nominal interest rate. You can sell the note if you can find anyone willing to buy it from you (discounted, of course) You can put everything you own, not just your interest in the house, on the line and co-sign for her. Or you can say "goodbye" to your sister and force a sale and force her out - with her share of the procedes to tide her over for a short while. I went through a situation over the last couple of years .Years ago a younger brother had borrowed money from Dad, then declared personal bankruptsy over the business he had borrowd the money to invest in. This was just after Mom died - and Dad was not interested in handling the bankruptsy disposal -and the trustees got rid of the assets as quickly and easily as they could, getting the primary secured creditors a reasonable amount, but not getting anywhere near what the assets were worth. Dad didn't get a cent. To be fair to the 7 siblings, he stipulated in his will that the amount of the loan, with no interest, was to be with-held from that son's portion at the time of distribution of his estate. Brother was not aware of this,(so is not the reason) and was not in contact with the rest of the family - basically cut himself off from all involvement with the family - suspect it was at least in part the doing of his second wife. Anyway, Dad died - I was one of the executors, and when the will was read, brother was not there although he knew the rest of the family was getting together because youngest brother had to leave to go back to Saskatchewan. We delivered a copy of the will to him and the crap hit the fan. It took several weeks to get him convinced to sign off and let us distribute the estate without having to go through "probate court" which would have reduced the estate to the point he may have not gotten anything. There was discussion of the merits of each of the remaining siblings "throwing in" a portion to equalize what everyone got in an attempt to "keep a brother" - but we decided we had already "lost" him and it would have no positive effect. Took a year to finalize everything and make the final dispursals. A year goes by, with virtually no contact. His wife says she's leaving. He says "she's not getting half of everything I've worked for like my first wife" - takes everything of value from their primary residence, including emptying all the bank accounts, takes his new truck up to their vacation property, and burns everything down around him after shooting himsrlf. Now we had really and totally lost a brother - And my 2 neices and Nephew and their 5 kids lost their father/grandfather/inheritance. That's the worst I've ever heard since reading rcm. |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT. Personal dilemma
It was a very bad idea to bequeath property in this manner, to give a
50-50 ownership to siblings, at least one of whom is irresponsible with money. Now you kind of live with this mistake. It is difficult to get water from a stone, or 20,000 from an irresponsible 55 year old. She has little incentive to take mortgage to buy you out. At the same you should not co-sign anything either. i On 2014-08-20, amdx wrote: I dug myself a hole, now I want out. My mother died 2-1/2 years ago and left her house to myself and my sister. My sister was living there taking care of mom for about six months. Now sis and her girlfriend are living in the house. Both in their middle 50s. Since she was helping mom, sis's name was on the bank account. The cash assets left were about $20k in a bank account with sis's name on it. And about $20k is what I gave mom to live on over the later years. When I ask her to send me half (basically my own money) she said, she needed it to fix the house. The lawyer said her name is on the account, it is her money. Now 2-1/2 years later, the money has been spent. The house has no repairs. I would like her to have the house, (It is all she has except debt) but I am reluctant to give her a contract, because I don't think she will pay me, the first time money is tight. (money is always tight for her). The latest, she is trying to get here finances straightened out so she can get a mortgage. She works about 30 hrs a week, and I doubt she will get a mortgage, I think this will just delay a sale until next summer rolls around. Property is in the north, not many sales in the winter. I'm looking for options. She has a 50% equity in a $45,000 house. Any thoughts how to extricate myself from this with some money. I could make a contract, what clauses could I put in so I could get them out if they didn't make payments or maybe subtract all delayed payments from her share at the sale. (not what I want) I just want out with as close to $20k as possible. Mikek --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT. Personal dilemma
On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 15:51:47 -0500, amdx wrote:
I dug myself a hole, now I want out. My mother died 2-1/2 years ago and left her house to myself and my sister. My sister was living there taking care of mom for about six months. Now sis and her girlfriend are living in the house. Both in their middle 50s. Since she was helping mom, sis's name was on the bank account. The cash assets left were about $20k in a bank account with sis's name on it. And about $20k is what I gave mom to live on over the later years. When I ask her to send me half (basically my own money) she said, she needed it to fix the house. The lawyer said her name is on the account, it is her money. Now 2-1/2 years later, the money has been spent. The house has no repairs. I would like her to have the house, (It is all she has except debt) but I am reluctant to give her a contract, because I don't think she will pay me, the first time money is tight. (money is always tight for her). The latest, she is trying to get here finances straightened out so she can get a mortgage. She works about 30 hrs a week, and I doubt she will get a mortgage, I think this will just delay a sale until next summer rolls around. Property is in the north, not many sales in the winter. I'm looking for options. She has a 50% equity in a $45,000 house. Any thoughts how to extricate myself from this with some money. I could make a contract, what clauses could I put in so I could get them out if they didn't make payments or maybe subtract all delayed payments from her share at the sale. (not what I want) I just want out with as close to $20k as possible. Mikek --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com Greetings Mike, If she was my sister, and I loved her, I would forgive any debt and just let her have the house. Do you need the $20,000? If you don't need the money, and it seems like maybe you don't because you got along without it for several years, then just let her have it. I know it's not fair to you, but you will probably feel better about it in the long run. Send her a card that says Merry Christmas! or Happy Birthday! or whatever and tell her that she is now obligation free when it comes to you. Eric |
#14
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT. Personal dilemma
On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 8:15:29 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus14649 wrote:
On 2014-08-21, wrote: On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 15:51:47 -0500, amdx wrote: I dug myself a hole, now I want out. My mother died 2-1/2 years ago and left her house to myself and my sister. My sister was living there taking care of mom for about six months. Now sis and her girlfriend are living in the house. Both in their middle 50s. Since she was helping mom, sis's name was on the bank account. The cash assets left were about $20k in a bank account with sis's name on it. And about $20k is what I gave mom to live on over the later years. When I ask her to send me half (basically my own money) she said, she needed it to fix the house. The lawyer said her name is on the account, it is her money. Now 2-1/2 years later, the money has been spent. The house has no repairs. I would like her to have the house, (It is all she has except debt) but I am reluctant to give her a contract, because I don't think she will pay me, the first time money is tight. (money is always tight for her). The latest, she is trying to get here finances straightened out so she can get a mortgage. She works about 30 hrs a week, and I doubt she will get a mortgage, I think this will just delay a sale until next summer rolls around. Property is in the north, not many sales in the winter. I'm looking for options. She has a 50% equity in a $45,000 house. Any thoughts how to extricate myself from this with some money. I could make a contract, what clauses could I put in so I could get them out if they didn't make payments or maybe subtract all delayed payments from her share at the sale. (not what I want) I just want out with as close to $20k as possible. Greetings Mike, If she was my sister, and I loved her, I would forgive any debt and just let her have the house. Do you need the $20,000? If you don't need the money, and it seems like maybe you don't because you got along without it for several years, then just let her have it. I know it's not fair to you, but you will probably feel better about it in the long run. Send her a card that says Merry Christmas! or Happy Birthday !or whatever and tell her that she is now obligation free when it comes to you. This is very wise thinking indeed. Well no, not even that. You see, there are probably only factory and construction workers in this group (so you'll doubt the advice, here). This whole question should have been asked in one of the legal discussion groups, like alt.lawyers or misc.legal |
#15
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT. Personal dilemma
On 8/21/2014 10:51 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 8:15:29 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus14649 wrote: On 2014-08-21, wrote: On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 15:51:47 -0500, amdx wrote: I dug myself a hole, now I want out. My mother died 2-1/2 years ago and left her house to myself and my sister. My sister was living there taking care of mom for about six months. Now sis and her girlfriend are living in the house. Both in their middle 50s. Since she was helping mom, sis's name was on the bank account. The cash assets left were about $20k in a bank account with sis's name on it. And about $20k is what I gave mom to live on over the later years. When I ask her to send me half (basically my own money) she said, she needed it to fix the house. The lawyer said her name is on the account, it is her money. Now 2-1/2 years later, the money has been spent. The house has no repairs. I would like her to have the house, (It is all she has except debt) but I am reluctant to give her a contract, because I don't think she will pay me, the first time money is tight. (money is always tight for her). The latest, she is trying to get here finances straightened out so she can get a mortgage. She works about 30 hrs a week, and I doubt she will get a mortgage, I think this will just delay a sale until next summer rolls around. Property is in the north, not many sales in the winter. I'm looking for options. She has a 50% equity in a $45,000 house. Any thoughts how to extricate myself from this with some money. I could make a contract, what clauses could I put in so I could get them out if they didn't make payments or maybe subtract all delayed payments from her share at the sale. (not what I want) I just want out with as close to $20k as possible. Greetings Mike, If she was my sister, and I loved her, I would forgive any debt and just let her have the house. Do you need the $20,000? If you don't need the money, and it seems like maybe you don't because you got along without it for several years, then just let her have it. I know it's not fair to you, but you will probably feel better about it in the long run. Send her a card that says Merry Christmas! or Happy Birthday !or whatever and tell her that she is now obligation free when it comes to you. This is very wise thinking indeed. Well no, not even that. You see, there are probably only factory and construction workers in this group (so you'll doubt the advice, here). This whole question should have been asked in one of the legal discussion groups, like alt.lawyers or misc.legal Hey, thanks for those groups, I'll look into those. Although, just spouting here has eased my mind, a little. Mikek --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
#16
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OT. Personal dilemma
amdx wrote: Hey, thanks for those groups, I'll look into those. Although, just spouting here has eased my mind, a little. Are land contracts legal where you live? A contract is made between the seller and the buyer, without going to the pain of getting a mortgage. Just make sure it's properly drawn up, and recorded. -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge. |
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OT. Personal dilemma
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#18
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OT. Personal dilemma
On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 13:39:34 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote: On 8/21/2014 11:51 AM, wrote: ... You see, there are probably only factory and construction workers in this group ... You're not even close! A lot of engineers, small business owners, ... Indeed. -- "Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon. We're in a great place, just at a bad time." |
#19
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OT. Personal dilemma
On 8/20/2014 7:01 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 15:51:47 -0500, amdx wrote: om her share at the sale. (not what I want) I just want out with as close to $20k as possible. Mikek --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com Greetings Mike, If she was my sister, and I loved her, I would forgive any debt and just let her have the house. Do you need the $20,000? If you don't need the money, and it seems like maybe you don't because you got along without it for several years, then just let her have it. I know it's not fair to you, but you will probably feel better about it in the long run. Send her a card that says Merry Christmas! or Happy Birthday! or whatever and tell her that she is now obligation free when it comes to you. Eric I'm not that big. I'm working 50+ hrs a week, 52 weeks a year. Our two person business is open 7 days a week, 10 hrs a day, 363 days a year. I'm living very frugally, saving as much as I can. My sister on the other hand, has spent much time traveling with no responsibilities, not even a home, her and her friend lived in a van or with one relative or another. All that is fine, I even wish I had that freedom, and wish I had visited some of the places she has. That said, I don't feel responsible for her fun lifestyle. She even blew through $93k she got when she sold her condo years ago. She is working at a place that helps train and allows her to apply for jobs. She has told me for over a year that she wants to learn Quicken books to make herself more valuable, she has yet to do it. I've told her she needs to visit the 40 business's within walking distance of mom's (sis and my) house everyday and tell them she is available for work. After a couple months she would know all the managers and could get a job close to home and wouldn't need a car. Her excuse is, all jobs require you to applied online. I think she has already used about $30k of my money. I'm 1000 miles from her, I talk cordially to her, but it's getting harder and harder. I just want $20k and my name off the house. Options? Mikek |
#20
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OT. Personal dilemma
On 08/20/2014 7:55 PM, amdx wrote:
.... I just want $20k and my name off the house. Options? The latter is easy, the former "not so much". You really have no leverage w/o playing hardball and even then there's nothing to prevent her from just defaulting and filing bankruptcy if it comes to that. While it's unfortunate, you can't teach responsibility at this age and it's not likely to be learned on its own, either. I don't see any options that are palatable as others have said. While it's too late now, the moral is the banking accounts should never have had ownership changed, only limited POA and a responsible oversight that monies were only used to benefit Mom while alive. Once she passed, the assets remaining would have still been in the estate and subject to the terms of the will on division. At _that_ point you could have possibly recovered some cash in lieu of the half of the house and come out reasonably whole. With what cash assets there were not in the estate, your interest in the house is basically all there is and that's of no cash value unless force a sale or you do try to finance it for her or the like. Like another says, don't make the mistake of compounding the problem by co-signing on an external mortgage or anything of that ilk. It's one thing to have to forgive an uncollectable debt, it's something else entirely to have to pay it off to a third party. -- |
#21
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OT. Personal dilemma
On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 19:55:51 -0500, amdx wrote:
On 8/20/2014 7:01 PM, wrote: On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 15:51:47 -0500, amdx wrote: om her share at the sale. (not what I want) I just want out with as close to $20k as possible. Mikek --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com Greetings Mike, If she was my sister, and I loved her, I would forgive any debt and just let her have the house. Do you need the $20,000? If you don't need the money, and it seems like maybe you don't because you got along without it for several years, then just let her have it. I know it's not fair to you, but you will probably feel better about it in the long run. Send her a card that says Merry Christmas! or Happy Birthday! or whatever and tell her that she is now obligation free when it comes to you. Eric I'm not that big. I'm working 50+ hrs a week, 52 weeks a year. Our two person business is open 7 days a week, 10 hrs a day, 363 days a year. I'm living very frugally, saving as much as I can. My sister on the other hand, has spent much time traveling with no responsibilities, not even a home, her and her friend lived in a van or with one relative or another. All that is fine, I even wish I had that freedom, and wish I had visited some of the places she has. That said, I don't feel responsible for her fun lifestyle. She even blew through $93k she got when she sold her condo years ago. She is working at a place that helps train and allows her to apply for jobs. She has told me for over a year that she wants to learn Quicken books to make herself more valuable, she has yet to do it. I've told her she needs to visit the 40 business's within walking distance of mom's (sis and my) house everyday and tell them she is available for work. After a couple months she would know all the managers and could get a job close to home and wouldn't need a car. Her excuse is, all jobs require you to applied online. I think she has already used about $30k of my money. I'm 1000 miles from her, I talk cordially to her, but it's getting harder and harder. I just want $20k and my name off the house. Options? Mikek You asked for opinions Mike, I gave you mine. Is your sister worth $20k to you? In other words, if you force the money from her by having the house sold, will you never speak with her again? I'm not saying you should give her more money, I'm saying you already have given it to her and trying to get it back may not be worth it. It certainly would not be worth it to me. There is no need for you to further fund her living expenses but letting her have the house free and clear isn't doing that because you are not having to pay even more money out of pocket. You are in a bad situation and I feel bad for you, but only you can decide which is worth more to you, your family or your money. One option that occurs to me is that maybe you could get a lien put on the house so that if she sells it you could then recover some of the money. Tell your sister that you intend to do this, maybe she will agree this is a good thing, and maybe you could draw up a contract that pays you first a certain amount if the house is ever sold. Eric |
#22
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OT. Personal dilemma
On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 15:43:46 -0700, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 19:55:51 -0500, amdx wrote: On 8/20/2014 7:01 PM, wrote: On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 15:51:47 -0500, amdx wrote: om her share at the sale. (not what I want) I just want out with as close to $20k as possible. Mikek --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com Greetings Mike, If she was my sister, and I loved her, I would forgive any debt and just let her have the house. Do you need the $20,000? If you don't need the money, and it seems like maybe you don't because you got along without it for several years, then just let her have it. I know it's not fair to you, but you will probably feel better about it in the long run. Send her a card that says Merry Christmas! or Happy Birthday! or whatever and tell her that she is now obligation free when it comes to you. Eric I'm not that big. I'm working 50+ hrs a week, 52 weeks a year. Our two person business is open 7 days a week, 10 hrs a day, 363 days a year. I'm living very frugally, saving as much as I can. My sister on the other hand, has spent much time traveling with no responsibilities, not even a home, her and her friend lived in a van or with one relative or another. All that is fine, I even wish I had that freedom, and wish I had visited some of the places she has. That said, I don't feel responsible for her fun lifestyle. She even blew through $93k she got when she sold her condo years ago. She is working at a place that helps train and allows her to apply for jobs. She has told me for over a year that she wants to learn Quicken books to make herself more valuable, she has yet to do it. I've told her she needs to visit the 40 business's within walking distance of mom's (sis and my) house everyday and tell them she is available for work. After a couple months she would know all the managers and could get a job close to home and wouldn't need a car. Her excuse is, all jobs require you to applied online. I think she has already used about $30k of my money. I'm 1000 miles from her, I talk cordially to her, but it's getting harder and harder. I just want $20k and my name off the house. Options? Mikek You asked for opinions Mike, I gave you mine. Is your sister worth $20k to you? In other words, if you force the money from her by having the house sold, will you never speak with her again? I'm not saying you should give her more money, I'm saying you already have given it to her and trying to get it back may not be worth it. It certainly would not be worth it to me. There is no need for you to further fund her living expenses but letting her have the house free and clear isn't doing that because you are not having to pay even more money out of pocket. You are in a bad situation and I feel bad for you, but only you can decide which is worth more to you, your family or your money. One option that occurs to me is that maybe you could get a lien put on the house so that if she sells it you could then recover some of the money. Tell your sister that you intend to do this, maybe she will agree this is a good thing, and maybe you could draw up a contract that pays you first a certain amount if the house is ever sold. The problem is that his sister may run it into the ground and end up owing money on it if she gets a mortgage. Or if it collapses on her roommate and the girl sues, that would place him at even more risk. I think giving her the house and getting his name off it is the safest thing he could do, and it doesn't matter whether he loves her any more or not. Sad, that. Unfortunately, the $20k is a lost cause, with her proving it -thrice- in the info he shared with us. (condo sale, his $30k, and Mom's bank balance) G'luck, Mikek. It can't be fun writing off yet another $20k... -- The unexamined life is not worth living. --Socrates |
#23
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OT. Personal dilemma
On Thursday, August 21, 2014 12:55:51 AM UTC, amdx wrote:
I'm 1000 miles from her, I talk cordially to her, but it's getting harder and harder. I just want $20k and my name off the house. Options? I would talk to her and see what she thinks is fair. My thoughts is that she might do what she thinks is fair. If she does not think what you propose is fair, she will manage to not do it. After you know what she thinks it fair, I would offer to agree to even less than that amount. If she thinks what you propose is more than fair, she might do it. I suspect she will not, but there is always hope. Dan |
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OT. Personal dilemma
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#26
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OT. Personal dilemma
On 08/21/2014 8:17 PM, amdx wrote:
.... The dilemma is, she wants to stay in the house because it is cheaper than any apartment. She has a negative net worth. I want my name off the title. I don't want to give her any more of my hard earned saving. I want to get my equity out of the property. I would like to see her keep the house, I think it is in her best interest to keep the house, she could end up homeless if she doesn't. She has looked into subsidized housing for the elderly, I don't know what she found. As far as fair, I think she finds the existing arrangement works very well for her. Dan's point is essentially the same one I made earlier that "perceived value for services rendered" isn't necessarily at all equivalent to any rational basis. Hence, if may well seem entirely fair to her (and probably does). Unfortunately, changing such a self-perception is about as easy as winning a flame-war argument on a usenet group. That she's been enabled by a combination of events for years to get away with being irresponsible without dire consequences to date doesn't help. Again, about the only practical solution I'd see would be the financing of the place for her temporarily while she gets her financials in order. Under the big if of is she were to do that and follow thru on payments to you on that private mortgage and also clean up whatever issues there are on credit rating and have a stead income in some number of years it could possibly be transitioned to a regular mortgage. That she would follow through would seem a major risk, however, which is again why I'd never suggest you even consider the co-signer or other guarantor route for anything--it's too risky and likely to encumber you personally, and thereby the business as well if you're running it as dba or llc or the like without full corporate wrappings. -- |
#27
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OT. Personal dilemma
You're screwed. Anything you do other than just give her you half you will become the bad guy. Give her you half and walk away. If you force a sale, she will likely destroy the house just because she can. If you set up a mortgage with her paying you, she will stop paying, and again, you will be the bad guy because you will have to evict your own sister. Likely she cannot buy your half with a lump sum. It's a no win all the way around.
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#28
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OT. Personal dilemma
On 2014-08-21, Gerry wrote:
You're screwed. Anything you do other than just give her you half you will become the bad guy. Give her you half and walk away. If you force a sale, she will likely destroy the house just because she can. If you set up a mortgage with her paying you, she will stop paying, and again, you will be the bad guy because you will have to evict your own sister. Likely she cannot buy your half with a lump sum. It's a no win all the way around. I agree, she already punished herself. The money just is not there. i |
#29
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OT. Personal dilemma
On 8/20/2014 4:51 PM, amdx wrote:
I dug myself a hole, now I want out. My mother died 2-1/2 years ago and left her house to myself and my sister. My sister was living there taking care of mom for about six months. Now sis and her girlfriend are living in the house. Both in their middle 50s. snip Family vs money---take your pick, you can't have both! Is a relationship with your sister worth anything to you? Remember, this decision will last the rest of your lives. |
#30
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OT. Personal dilemma
On 8/21/2014 10:57 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 8/20/2014 4:51 PM, amdx wrote: I dug myself a hole, now I want out. My mother died 2-1/2 years ago and left her house to myself and my sister. My sister was living there taking care of mom for about six months. Now sis and her girlfriend are living in the house. Both in their middle 50s. snip Family vs money---take your pick, you can't have both! Is a relationship with your sister worth anything to you? Remember, this decision will last the rest of your lives. Would you like to adopt a sister? ;-) Mikek --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
#31
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OT. Personal dilemma
On 8/21/2014 1:24 PM, amdx wrote:
On 8/21/2014 10:57 AM, Tom Gardner wrote: On 8/20/2014 4:51 PM, amdx wrote: I dug myself a hole, now I want out. My mother died 2-1/2 years ago and left her house to myself and my sister. My sister was living there taking care of mom for about six months. Now sis and her girlfriend are living in the house. Both in their middle 50s. snip Family vs money---take your pick, you can't have both! Is a relationship with your sister worth anything to you? Remember, this decision will last the rest of your lives. Would you like to adopt a sister? ;-) Mikek --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com One sister still won't speak with me after mom's death. I cared for parents in diapers for over 10 years...she did nothing to help yet criticized every decision and had her hand out. |
#32
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OT. Personal dilemma
On 2014-08-22, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 8/21/2014 1:24 PM, amdx wrote: On 8/21/2014 10:57 AM, Tom Gardner wrote: On 8/20/2014 4:51 PM, amdx wrote: I dug myself a hole, now I want out. My mother died 2-1/2 years ago and left her house to myself and my sister. My sister was living there taking care of mom for about six months. Now sis and her girlfriend are living in the house. Both in their middle 50s. snip Family vs money---take your pick, you can't have both! Is a relationship with your sister worth anything to you? Remember, this decision will last the rest of your lives. Would you like to adopt a sister? ;-) One sister still won't speak with me after mom's death. I cared for parents in diapers for over 10 years...she did nothing to help yet criticized every decision and had her hand out. Was it because of money or something else? i |
#33
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OT. Personal dilemma
On 8/22/2014 3:08 PM, Ignoramus7070 wrote:
On 2014-08-22, Tom Gardner wrote: On 8/21/2014 1:24 PM, amdx wrote: On 8/21/2014 10:57 AM, Tom Gardner wrote: On 8/20/2014 4:51 PM, amdx wrote: I dug myself a hole, now I want out. My mother died 2-1/2 years ago and left her house to myself and my sister. My sister was living there taking care of mom for about six months. Now sis and her girlfriend are living in the house. Both in their middle 50s. snip Family vs money---take your pick, you can't have both! Is a relationship with your sister worth anything to you? Remember, this decision will last the rest of your lives. Would you like to adopt a sister? ;-) One sister still won't speak with me after mom's death. I cared for parents in diapers for over 10 years...she did nothing to help yet criticized every decision and had her hand out. Was it because of money or something else? i She wanted the family silver that my mom gave to my other sister. She also demanded 25% of my business that I bought from dad many years earlier. She said that dad didn't give her her fair share and that I was obligated to make it right. Some day, I hope she comes around to reality. |
#34
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OT. Personal dilemma
On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 12:28:47 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote: One sister still won't speak with me after mom's death. I cared for parents in diapers for over 10 years...she did nothing to help yet criticized every decision and had her hand out. It's lucky she won't speak to you. I doubt you mind much, eh? -- The unexamined life is not worth living. --Socrates |
#35
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OT. Personal dilemma
On 8/22/2014 10:03 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 12:28:47 -0400, Tom Gardner wrote: One sister still won't speak with me after mom's death. I cared for parents in diapers for over 10 years...she did nothing to help yet criticized every decision and had her hand out. It's lucky she won't speak to you. I doubt you mind much, eh? -- The unexamined life is not worth living. --Socrates Sure I mind, I want her to get beyond her greed. money has no real value, it's just a score card. |
#36
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OT. Personal dilemma
Tom Gardner wrote:
) ) Family vs money ... can't have both ... Not always at the same time. Disappoint your family yes; just don't go too far. And it's OK, just say you're sorry for it the next day. Stuff just comes up. |
#37
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OT. Personal dilemma
On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 15:51:47 -0500, amdx wrote:
I dug myself a hole, now I want out. My mother died 2-1/2 years ago and left her house to myself and my sister. My sister was living there taking care of mom for about six months. Now sis and her girlfriend are living in the house. Both in their middle 50s. Since she was helping mom, sis's name was on the bank account. The cash assets left were about $20k in a bank account with sis's name on it. And about $20k is what I gave mom to live on over the later years. When I ask her to send me half (basically my own money) she said, she needed it to fix the house. The lawyer said her name is on the account, it is her money. Now 2-1/2 years later, the money has been spent. The house has no repairs. I would like her to have the house, (It is all she has except debt) but I am reluctant to give her a contract, because I don't think she will pay me, the first time money is tight. (money is always tight for her). The latest, she is trying to get here finances straightened out so she can get a mortgage. She works about 30 hrs a week, and I doubt she will get a mortgage, I think this will just delay a sale until next summer rolls around. Property is in the north, not many sales in the winter. I'm looking for options. She has a 50% equity in a $45,000 house. Any thoughts how to extricate myself from this with some money. I could make a contract, what clauses could I put in so I could get them out if they didn't make payments or maybe subtract all delayed payments from her share at the sale. (not what I want) I just want out with as close to $20k as possible. You know, I really feel for you, but unless you want to cause a deep and lasting family rift I think that trying to achieve both goals at the same time will only compound your frustration. Whatever you do depends either on you playing hardball (causing that deep and lasting family rift), or her acting responsibly, which she never has done. Maybe offer her a reverse mortgage -- she signs the place over to you, with the stipulation that she gets to live there for life. Then when she keels over, you or your heirs get the place to sell. Better yet, check with a reverse mortgage place and see if there's some arrangement where the two of you sign the place over to THEM, you get a chunk of cash, and she gets an annuity (at her age, it'll probably be just enough to cover taxes on the place -- but hey, that's not so bad). That would affect the "get your name off the place and get you some money" goal, hopefully without giving her an opportunity to make you out to be the family Bad Guy and causing the aforementioned deep & wide family rift. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com |
#38
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OT. Personal dilemma
On 08/22/2014 5:00 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:
.... Better yet, check with a reverse mortgage place and see if there's some arrangement where the two of you sign the place over to THEM, you get a chunk of cash, and she gets an annuity (at her age, it'll probably be just enough to cover taxes on the place -- but hey, that's not so bad). That would affect the "get your name off the place and get you some money" goal, hopefully without giving her an opportunity to make you out to be the family Bad Guy and causing the aforementioned deep& wide family rift. I'd thought of that briefly but the sis is not eligible -- minimum age is 62 so it's six or seven years away iirc the given age. -- |
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