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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Ok Electron heads...big question!
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message ... Is 16.5 volts "too high" for most 12vt dc devices like Marine radios, fish finders, GPS devices, CB radios, am/fm/cd players and the like? Yes. If the voltage is too high..what cheap and easy method is there to drop the voltage down to 13.5/12vts to run my various electronic devices? Besides a big as resistor....? Build a regulator using a 7812 voltage regulator and some 2N3055 transistors. You could also use a LM317 and make output voltage adjustable. Don't forget the crowbar on the output. Best Regards Tom. |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Ok Electron heads...big question!
On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 17:45:58 -0800, "Howard Beal"
wrote: "Gunner Asch" wrote in message .. . Is 16.5 volts "too high" for most 12vt dc devices like Marine radios, fish finders, GPS devices, CB radios, am/fm/cd players and the like? Yes. If the voltage is too high..what cheap and easy method is there to drop the voltage down to 13.5/12vts to run my various electronic devices? Besides a big as resistor....? Build a regulator using a 7812 voltage regulator and some 2N3055 transistors. You could also use a LM317 and make output voltage adjustable. Don't forget the crowbar on the output. Best Regards Tom. Right. Would you have the plans someplace downloadable? After the stroke..as Ive mentioned before..Ive lost a lot of bits and pieces..and I drew a complete blank after reading your solution. So its worse than I thought. Sorry about that. Ill need about 10 amps max output. Ive got about 400 amp hours to work with. Gunner -- "Virtually all members of [radical] groups sincerely believe that they are fighting the Establishment. In reality they are an indespensible ally of the Establishment in fastening Socialism on all of us. The naive radicals think that under Socialism the "people" will run everything. Actually, it will be a clique of Insiders in total control, consolidating and controlling all wealth. That is why these schoolboy Lenins and teenage Trotskys are allowed to roam free and are practically never arrested or prosecuted. They are protected. If the Establishment wanted the revolutionaries stopped, how long do you think they would be tolerated? --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Ok Electron heads...big question!
rOn Tue, 11 Feb 2014 18:00:22 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote: On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 17:45:58 -0800, "Howard Beal" wrote: "Gunner Asch" wrote in message . .. Is 16.5 volts "too high" for most 12vt dc devices like Marine radios, fish finders, GPS devices, CB radios, am/fm/cd players and the like? Yes. If the voltage is too high..what cheap and easy method is there to drop the voltage down to 13.5/12vts to run my various electronic devices? Besides a big as resistor....? Build a regulator using a 7812 voltage regulator and some 2N3055 transistors. You could also use a LM317 and make output voltage adjustable. Don't forget the crowbar on the output. Best Regards Tom. Right. Would you have the plans someplace downloadable? After the stroke..as Ive mentioned before..Ive lost a lot of bits and pieces..and I drew a complete blank after reading your solution. So its worse than I thought. Sorry about that. Ill need about 10 amps max output. Ive got about 400 amp hours to work with. Gunner Just out of curiosity, where are you getting the 16 VDC? If you are talking about a solar panel connected to your battery bank, I doubt that it is ever going to turn your 12 volt battery system into a 16 volt one :-) At least it didn't on my boat :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Ok Electron heads...big question!
On 2/11/2014 7:45 PM, Howard Beal wrote:
"Gunner wrote in message ... Is 16.5 volts "too high" for most 12vt dc devices like Marine radios, fish finders, GPS devices, CB radios, am/fm/cd players and the like? Yes. If the voltage is too high..what cheap and easy method is there to drop the voltage down to 13.5/12vts to run my various electronic devices? Besides a big as resistor....? Build a regulator using a 7812 voltage regulator and some 2N3055 transistors. You could also use a LM317 and make output voltage adjustable. Don't forget the crowbar on the output. Best Regards Tom. Actually, before that he should try to charge them and see if they are worth all the trouble... How is, of course, the question. THEN consider a regulator. The 7812 an LM317 in TO-3 package (the lozenge shaped transistor thingie) are limited to 1 amp. A pass transistor can be added for higher current, but it starts getting complicated. LM-350 can go to 3 amps in a TO-3. |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Ok Electron heads...big question!
On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 21:24:58 -0600, Richard
wrote: On 2/11/2014 7:45 PM, Howard Beal wrote: "Gunner wrote in message ... Is 16.5 volts "too high" for most 12vt dc devices like Marine radios, fish finders, GPS devices, CB radios, am/fm/cd players and the like? Yes. If the voltage is too high..what cheap and easy method is there to drop the voltage down to 13.5/12vts to run my various electronic devices? Besides a big as resistor....? Build a regulator using a 7812 voltage regulator and some 2N3055 transistors. You could also use a LM317 and make output voltage adjustable. Don't forget the crowbar on the output. Best Regards Tom. Actually, before that he should try to charge them and see if they are worth all the trouble... How is, of course, the question. As I noted in my original post..they charge just fine. What about a simple old fashion automotive regulator that bolted to the firewall? THEN consider a regulator. The 7812 an LM317 in TO-3 package (the lozenge shaped transistor thingie) are limited to 1 amp. A pass transistor can be added for higher current, but it starts getting complicated. LM-350 can go to 3 amps in a TO-3. -- "Virtually all members of [radical] groups sincerely believe that they are fighting the Establishment. In reality they are an indespensible ally of the Establishment in fastening Socialism on all of us. The naive radicals think that under Socialism the "people" will run everything. Actually, it will be a clique of Insiders in total control, consolidating and controlling all wealth. That is why these schoolboy Lenins and teenage Trotskys are allowed to roam free and are practically never arrested or prosecuted. They are protected. If the Establishment wanted the revolutionaries stopped, how long do you think they would be tolerated? --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Ok Electron heads...big question!
On 2014-02-12, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 21:24:58 -0600, Richard wrote: On 2/11/2014 7:45 PM, Howard Beal wrote: "Gunner wrote in message ... Is 16.5 volts "too high" for most 12vt dc devices like Marine radios, fish finders, GPS devices, CB radios, am/fm/cd players and the like? All of these are made to work in an auto as well (except the fish finder and the Marine radio likely), and the voltage in an auto can get that high, depending on engine RPM and temperature, so I would think that they likely can. The "12V" is nominal and 14V is more common in a properly functioning automobile. Is there an alternator or generator keeping the voltage up in the battery in the boat? (I somehow missed the original article.) Yes. If the voltage is too high..what cheap and easy method is there to drop the voltage down to 13.5/12vts to run my various electronic devices? Besides a big as resistor....? Build a regulator using a 7812 voltage regulator and some 2N3055 transistors. You could also use a LM317 and make output voltage adjustable. Don't forget the crowbar on the output. Best Regards Tom. Actually, before that he should try to charge them and see if they are worth all the trouble... How is, of course, the question. As I noted in my original post..they charge just fine. What about a simple old fashion automotive regulator that bolted to the firewall? The really old ones are for generators, and somewhat newer ones are for alternators. Both regulate by pulsing on and off the field current in the respective device, and the battery is a part of the voltage limiting circuit. The actual voltage is a function of (among other things) the temperature under the hood, as it affects the electro-chemical stuff happening in the battery. Anyway -- those regulators are pretty useless without an associated generator or alternator. (Is there one in the boat, with a big engine sitting there cranking the alternator/generator and turning the prop? I thought that you were working on a sailboat. The ones which I am familiar with only had a bolt-on outboard for when the wind died and you needed to get into your mooring. Enjoy, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Ok Electron heads...big question!
On 12 Feb 2014 06:23:07 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote: On 2014-02-12, Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 21:24:58 -0600, Richard wrote: On 2/11/2014 7:45 PM, Howard Beal wrote: "Gunner wrote in message ... Is 16.5 volts "too high" for most 12vt dc devices like Marine radios, fish finders, GPS devices, CB radios, am/fm/cd players and the like? All of these are made to work in an auto as well (except the fish finder and the Marine radio likely), and the voltage in an auto can get that high, depending on engine RPM and temperature, so I would think that they likely can. The "12V" is nominal and 14V is more common in a properly functioning automobile. Is there an alternator or generator keeping the voltage up in the battery in the boat? (I somehow missed the original article.) The bigger Venture 24 has a 9.9 hp Johnson with electric start..so it has an onboard alternator. No idea of how much current it will sent back to the batteries as a charging current when its running. So it may charge fast enough if run for a while. Or not. https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...2602/Venture24 The smaller, freshly revamped Ensenada 20 has a rope start 5hp with no ability to charge, and thats the one I was pondering putting the 16volt battery unit in. https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...602/Ensenada20 Yes. If the voltage is too high..what cheap and easy method is there to drop the voltage down to 13.5/12vts to run my various electronic devices? Besides a big as resistor....? Build a regulator using a 7812 voltage regulator and some 2N3055 transistors. You could also use a LM317 and make output voltage adjustable. Don't forget the crowbar on the output. Best Regards Tom. Actually, before that he should try to charge them and see if they are worth all the trouble... How is, of course, the question. As I noted in my original post..they charge just fine. What about a simple old fashion automotive regulator that bolted to the firewall? The really old ones are for generators, and somewhat newer ones are for alternators. Both regulate by pulsing on and off the field current in the respective device, and the battery is a part of the voltage limiting circuit. The actual voltage is a function of (among other things) the temperature under the hood, as it affects the electro-chemical stuff happening in the battery. Anyway -- those regulators are pretty useless without an associated generator or alternator. (Is there one in the boat, with a big engine sitting there cranking the alternator/generator and turning the prop? I thought that you were working on a sailboat. The ones which I am familiar with only had a bolt-on outboard for when the wind died and you needed to get into your mooring. Correct. Most..not all..but most sailboats of this size have an outboard. Generally (not always..some are found in 21 footers etc) inboards (gas or diesel) are in boats 25 foot and up. Many of the older boats have blown/worn out their inboard engines..so they are either removed, or an outboard mount is placed on the stern and used. Sailing into a dock or loading ramp can be interesting..particularly if there are a number of other boats loading/unloading..so an outboard ,while not necessary..is very damned handy when you can line up, back out etc etc. And having the ability to motor in to shore if something unexpected breaks or someone is hurt..can be a life saver. Enjoy, DoN. Gunner -- "Virtually all members of [radical] groups sincerely believe that they are fighting the Establishment. In reality they are an indespensible ally of the Establishment in fastening Socialism on all of us. The naive radicals think that under Socialism the "people" will run everything. Actually, it will be a clique of Insiders in total control, consolidating and controlling all wealth. That is why these schoolboy Lenins and teenage Trotskys are allowed to roam free and are practically never arrested or prosecuted. They are protected. If the Establishment wanted the revolutionaries stopped, how long do you think they would be tolerated? --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Ok Electron heads...big question!
On 2014-02-12, Gunner Asch wrote:
On 12 Feb 2014 06:23:07 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2014-02-12, Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 21:24:58 -0600, Richard wrote: [ ... ] Is 16.5 volts "too high" for most 12vt dc devices like Marine radios, fish finders, GPS devices, CB radios, am/fm/cd players and the like? All of these are made to work in an auto as well (except the fish finder and the Marine radio likely), and the voltage in an auto can get that high, depending on engine RPM and temperature, so I would think that they likely can. The "12V" is nominal and 14V is more common in a properly functioning automobile. Is there an alternator or generator keeping the voltage up in the battery in the boat? (I somehow missed the original article.) The bigger Venture 24 has a 9.9 hp Johnson with electric start..so it has an onboard alternator. No idea of how much current it will sent back to the batteries as a charging current when its running. So it may charge fast enough if run for a while. Or not. https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...2602/Venture24 O.K. Lead Acid batteries (nominally 12V) will be somewhere over 14.5 volts at times with a hefty alternator or generator pumping them. (Actually, I had the regulator built into the alternator in a Mazda GLC fail in such a way as to maximize the charge current. End result -- operation at 18-20V or so, very short life headlamps, and the battery running so hot that it was boiling out electrolyte, splattering the underside of the hood. And this was with a nominally 12V battery. The smaller, freshly revamped Ensenada 20 has a rope start 5hp with no ability to charge, and thats the one I was pondering putting the 16volt battery unit in. https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...602/Ensenada20 That is a link to photos of the boat. I'm more curious about the battery, if it is being called a 16V battery. The normal lead-acid batteries are about 2.2 V per cell, so with six cells, that is 13.2 V (charged but not currently *being* charged. O.K. I've seen some of these before but still nothing about the battery. What *is* it? A lead-acid is usually multiples of three cellls (nominally 6V, 12V, 24V, in reality, higher.) Is this a lead-acid, or a NiCad, or a NiMH, or what? I presume that you expect to charge it before each trip. If you're seeing 16V during charging, that may just mean that the charger is pumping in too much current for normal charging. You may have posted more details about the battery before I came into the thread -- perhaps it was more heavily killfiled, or had a different subject line which had been killfiled because of too much political arguing or troll activity. But take it as given that I don't know what battery you are talking about. If it actually charges to something like 16V (maybe a battery for a laptop or something), you can put about three (relatively) high current silicon rectifiers in series. Expect somewhere around 0.7 or 0.6 V drop per diode, so three would get you down to about 14.2V or lower, which should be reasonable for all of the equipment you mentioned. Depending on how much current you are expecting to draw with everything on at once, you should probably include a heatsink (or mount them on the centerboard where they get cooled by the water. :-) [ ... ] I thought that you were working on a sailboat. The ones which I am familiar with only had a bolt-on outboard for when the wind died and you needed to get into your mooring. Correct. Most..not all..but most sailboats of this size have an outboard. Generally (not always..some are found in 21 footers etc) inboards (gas or diesel) are in boats 25 foot and up. Many of the older boats have blown/worn out their inboard engines..so they are either removed, or an outboard mount is placed on the stern and used. Keep them for ballast. :-) Sailing into a dock or loading ramp can be interesting..particularly if there are a number of other boats loading/unloading..so an outboard ,while not necessary..is very damned handy when you can line up, back out etc etc. And having the ability to motor in to shore if something unexpected breaks or someone is hurt..can be a life saver. My father prided himself on being able to sail into the slip without a "gasoline breeze". He had the rest of us trained as a crew. In the early years, we would shoot a mooring instead, easier than sailing into a slip Good Luck, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Ok Electron heads...big question!
On 2/12/2014 2:25 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On 12 Feb 2014 06:23:07 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2014-02-12, Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 21:24:58 -0600, Richard wrote: On 2/11/2014 7:45 PM, Howard Beal wrote: "Gunner wrote in message ... Is 16.5 volts "too high" for most 12vt dc devices like Marine radios, fish finders, GPS devices, CB radios, am/fm/cd players and the like? Here's a DC to DC converter for $13.15 on Ebay. http://tinyurl.com/kd9e686 It's good for 15 amps. The output is adjustable. It is more efficient than a standard linear regulator. I don't know anything more about it than what it says. I don't know if spending more gains you anything, if it works, it works. At that price buy two, one for a spare. Mikek |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Ok Electron heads...big question!
"Howard Beal" fired this volley in news:ldejo6$rne$1
@speranza.aioe.org: Build a regulator using a 7812 voltage regulator and some 2N3055 transistors. You could also use a LM317 and make output voltage adjustable. Don't forget the crowbar on the output. There are switching style regulators in the same load class. Sure, the board becomes a little more complex, what with at least one inductor and a fairly large smoothing capacitor, but its a far better solution for battery power in the long run. Linear regulators suck for portable/remote battery operation. Too much energy is thrown away as heat. Lloyd |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Ok Electron heads...big question!
On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 6:49:51 AM UTC-5, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Howard Beal" fired this volley in news:ldejo6$rne$1 @speranza.aioe.org: Build a regulator using a 7812 voltage regulator and some 2N3055 transistors. You could also use a LM317 and make output voltage adjustable. Don't forget the crowbar on the output. There are switching style regulators in the same load class. Sure, the board becomes a little more complex, what with at least one inductor and a fairly large smoothing capacitor, but its a far better solution for battery power in the long run. Linear regulators suck for portable/remote battery operation. Too much energy is thrown away as heat. Good. I was going to say he could also get a boost switching regulator and use one battery boosted to 13V. (No, I don't have any circuits in mind.) George H. Lloyd |
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