So I have this wild idea to make the rear window on my Scion xB
openable. It is of course made from tempered glass and so making holes
in it won't work. I am pretty sure I have seen handles glued to
windows on cars but I'm not sure. The rear window is now just glued to
the rear hatch. I'm thinking that if it was removed a gasket could be
installed, and hinges, gas springs, and a latch installed. So can this
be done? Anyone here done this? I'm pretty sure that making the hinge
assembly, latches, and handle won't present any real challenges. After
all, I do have a complete mahine shop and I am a machinist.
Eric

wrote in message ...
So I have this wild idea to make the rear window on my Scion xB
openable. It is of course made from tempered glass and so making holes
in it won't work. I am pretty sure I have seen handles glued to
windows on cars but I'm not sure. The rear window is now just glued to
the rear hatch. I'm thinking that if it was removed a gasket could be
installed, and hinges, gas springs, and a latch installed. So can this
be done? Anyone here done this? I'm pretty sure that making the hinge
assembly, latches, and handle won't present any real challenges. After
all, I do have a complete mahine shop and I am a machinist.
Eric

Think about the other end. Windshields are glued in with a silicone
adhesive and the rear view mirrors are glued to the glass too.
Art

"Artemus" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
So I have this wild idea to make the rear window on my Scion xB
openable. It is of course made from tempered glass and so making
holes
in it won't work. I am pretty sure I have seen handles glued to
windows on cars but I'm not sure. The rear window is now just glued
to
the rear hatch. I'm thinking that if it was removed a gasket could
be
installed, and hinges, gas springs, and a latch installed. So can
this
be done? Anyone here done this? I'm pretty sure that making the
hinge
assembly, latches, and handle won't present any real challenges.
After
all, I do have a complete mahine shop and I am a machinist.
Eric

Think about the other end. Windshields are glued in with a silicone
adhesive and the rear view mirrors are glued to the glass too.
Art

The latch, wiper, struts, brake light and hinges on my Honda's glass
upper hatch are attached with thru-hole fittings. The heater grid
contacts are bonded to the glass.

I can't reach in very far with only the upper glass open and usually
have to open the lower swinging door to reach anything that braking
has moved forward against the seat backs, or load groceries where they
won't tumble. You could tape some rope across the opening at sill
height to see how much useful access you would have.

This is the hatch arrangement. The folding table is the floor of the
rear compartment. I covered mine with plywood to support the weight of
machinery.
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/230/52...07c819cf_z.jpg
Later models made the glass part of the door, which is probably
better.

I installed the optional child restraint seat fittings in the roof
just in front of the hatch hinge and have used them to hold up a net
when I had a lot of loose gear piled in back, so it wouldn't spill out
when I opened the lower door. I would have added tie-downs on the
floor if it hadn't come with them.

The mirror glued to my truck's replacement windshield fell off when I
tried to adjust it, on the way to the state inspection. The outside
mirrors were enough to pass.

jsw

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:17:46 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Artemus" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
So I have this wild idea to make the rear window on my Scion xB
openable. It is of course made from tempered glass and so making
holes
in it won't work. I am pretty sure I have seen handles glued to
windows on cars but I'm not sure. The rear window is now just glued
to
the rear hatch. I'm thinking that if it was removed a gasket could
be
installed, and hinges, gas springs, and a latch installed. So can
this
be done? Anyone here done this? I'm pretty sure that making the
hinge
assembly, latches, and handle won't present any real challenges.
After
all, I do have a complete mahine shop and I am a machinist.
Eric

Think about the other end. Windshields are glued in with a silicone
adhesive and the rear view mirrors are glued to the glass too.
Art

The latch, wiper, struts, brake light and hinges on my Honda's glass
upper hatch are attached with thru-hole fittings. The heater grid
contacts are bonded to the glass.

Art's point, though, is that "tempered" glass is very highly stressed.
The surfaces are in compression and the core is in tension. If you
drill it, or even scratch it deeply, it *may* propagate a crack
through the glass and shatter it into chunks (not sharp shards).

Glass is not among the materials I study much, but I suspect that, in
production, they either do their drilling while the glass is in the
annealed state, or they have a way of locally annealing it after
tempering.

As for gluing to it, there has been good advice in this thread. You
can get a very strong bond with the right materials and technique.

--
Ed Huntress


I can't reach in very far with only the upper glass open and usually
have to open the lower swinging door to reach anything that braking
has moved forward against the seat backs, or load groceries where they
won't tumble. You could tape some rope across the opening at sill
height to see how much useful access you would have.

This is the hatch arrangement. The folding table is the floor of the
rear compartment. I covered mine with plywood to support the weight of
machinery.
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/230/52...07c819cf_z.jpg
Later models made the glass part of the door, which is probably
better.

I installed the optional child restraint seat fittings in the roof
just in front of the hatch hinge and have used them to hold up a net
when I had a lot of loose gear piled in back, so it wouldn't spill out
when I opened the lower door. I would have added tie-downs on the
floor if it hadn't come with them.

The mirror glued to my truck's replacement windshield fell off when I
tried to adjust it, on the way to the state inspection. The outside
mirrors were enough to pass.

jsw

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:17:46 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Artemus" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
So I have this wild idea to make the rear window on my Scion xB
openable. It is of course made from tempered glass and so making
holes
in it won't work. I am pretty sure I have seen handles glued to
windows on cars but I'm not sure. The rear window is now just
glued
to
the rear hatch. I'm thinking that if it was removed a gasket
could
be
installed, and hinges, gas springs, and a latch installed. So can
this
be done? Anyone here done this? I'm pretty sure that making the
hinge
assembly, latches, and handle won't present any real challenges.
After
all, I do have a complete mahine shop and I am a machinist.
Eric

Think about the other end. Windshields are glued in with a
silicone
adhesive and the rear view mirrors are glued to the glass too.
Art

The latch, wiper, struts, brake light and hinges on my Honda's glass
upper hatch are attached with thru-hole fittings. The heater grid
contacts are bonded to the glass.

Art's point, though, is that "tempered" glass is very highly
stressed.
The surfaces are in compression and the core is in tension. If you
drill it, or even scratch it deeply, it *may* propagate a crack
through the glass and shatter it into chunks (not sharp shards).

That was purely a description, not a prescription. If you find an
instance of a high-stress glue attachment its repair procedure and
materials should be helpful.

Glass is not among the materials I study much, but I suspect that,
in
production, they either do their drilling while the glass is in the
annealed state, or they have a way of locally annealing it after
tempering.

As for gluing to it, there has been good advice in this thread. You
can get a very strong bond with the right materials and technique.

--
Ed Huntress

If the glue ages and fails, like my professionally installed mirror, a
sharp maneuver could fling the hatch glass into another car's
windshield.

jsw

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 12:50:04 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:17:46 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Artemus" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
So I have this wild idea to make the rear window on my Scion xB
openable. It is of course made from tempered glass and so making
holes
in it won't work. I am pretty sure I have seen handles glued to
windows on cars but I'm not sure. The rear window is now just
glued
to
the rear hatch. I'm thinking that if it was removed a gasket
could
be
installed, and hinges, gas springs, and a latch installed. So can
this
be done? Anyone here done this? I'm pretty sure that making the
hinge
assembly, latches, and handle won't present any real challenges.
After
all, I do have a complete mahine shop and I am a machinist.
Eric

Think about the other end. Windshields are glued in with a
silicone
adhesive and the rear view mirrors are glued to the glass too.
Art

The latch, wiper, struts, brake light and hinges on my Honda's glass
upper hatch are attached with thru-hole fittings. The heater grid
contacts are bonded to the glass.

Art's point, though, is that "tempered" glass is very highly
stressed.
The surfaces are in compression and the core is in tension. If you
drill it, or even scratch it deeply, it *may* propagate a crack
through the glass and shatter it into chunks (not sharp shards).

That was purely a description, not a prescription. If you find an
instance of a high-stress glue attachment its repair procedure and
materials should be helpful.

Glass is not among the materials I study much, but I suspect that,
in
production, they either do their drilling while the glass is in the
annealed state, or they have a way of locally annealing it after
tempering.

As for gluing to it, there has been good advice in this thread. You
can get a very strong bond with the right materials and technique.

--
Ed Huntress

If the glue ages and fails, like my professionally installed mirror, a
sharp maneuver could fling the hatch glass into another car's
windshield.

jsw

I know that rear view mirrors are glued on, as well as windshields and
rear windows. They use different glues. Rear view mirror glue is not
good at taking shocks, it's brittle. OTOH, regular windshield glue is
too soft. A rear window coming off could lead to a disaster so if I
attempt this I need to make sure that can't happen. Last night I
realized the only safe and practical way to make the window openable
is to mount it in a frame exactly the way it is mounted now and mount
the hinges and latch to the frame. I just laid a straight edge on the
window and it is curved in both X and Y. Making a frame to match this
compound curve would probably take me a long time. I should probably
give up on this idea unless I can get one of those pimp my ride type
shows to do it for me. Hmm.....
Eric

Ed Huntress wrote:

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:17:46 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Artemus" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
So I have this wild idea to make the rear window on my Scion xB
openable. It is of course made from tempered glass and so making
holes
in it won't work. I am pretty sure I have seen handles glued to
windows on cars but I'm not sure. The rear window is now just glued
to
the rear hatch. I'm thinking that if it was removed a gasket could
be
installed, and hinges, gas springs, and a latch installed. So can
this
be done? Anyone here done this? I'm pretty sure that making the
hinge
assembly, latches, and handle won't present any real challenges.
After
all, I do have a complete mahine shop and I am a machinist.
Eric

Think about the other end. Windshields are glued in with a silicone
adhesive and the rear view mirrors are glued to the glass too.
Art

The latch, wiper, struts, brake light and hinges on my Honda's glass
upper hatch are attached with thru-hole fittings. The heater grid
contacts are bonded to the glass.

Art's point, though, is that "tempered" glass is very highly stressed.
The surfaces are in compression and the core is in tension. If you
drill it, or even scratch it deeply, it *may* propagate a crack
through the glass and shatter it into chunks (not sharp shards).

Glass is not among the materials I study much, but I suspect that, in
production, they either do their drilling while the glass is in the
annealed state, or they have a way of locally annealing it after
tempering.

As for gluing to it, there has been good advice in this thread. You
can get a very strong bond with the right materials and technique.


The glue may need to be somewhat flexible to allow different rates of
expansion between the glass and the frame. Or arrange the frame to be made
in parts than can slip or flex slightly as the glass expands/contracts.

If the rear window is already held in with glue, just use the same stuff.
They've already solved that problem.

The other alternative is to make a frame with a flange that will mate with a
standard windshield rubber gasket. The glass sits in one slot in the
gasket, the frame in another. Turning the gasket around (frame on the
outside, glass toward the inside) might allow the face of the rubber gasket
to act as a weather seal against the car body.


--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
Someone figured out my password. Now I have to rename my dog.

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 10:56:38 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:17:46 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Artemus" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
So I have this wild idea to make the rear window on my Scion xB
openable. It is of course made from tempered glass and so making
holes
in it won't work. I am pretty sure I have seen handles glued to
windows on cars but I'm not sure. The rear window is now just glued
to
the rear hatch. I'm thinking that if it was removed a gasket could
be
installed, and hinges, gas springs, and a latch installed. So can
this
be done? Anyone here done this? I'm pretty sure that making the
hinge
assembly, latches, and handle won't present any real challenges.
After
all, I do have a complete mahine shop and I am a machinist.
Eric

Think about the other end. Windshields are glued in with a silicone
adhesive and the rear view mirrors are glued to the glass too.
Art

The latch, wiper, struts, brake light and hinges on my Honda's glass
upper hatch are attached with thru-hole fittings. The heater grid
contacts are bonded to the glass.

Art's point, though, is that "tempered" glass is very highly stressed.
The surfaces are in compression and the core is in tension. If you
drill it, or even scratch it deeply, it *may* propagate a crack
through the glass and shatter it into chunks (not sharp shards).

Glass is not among the materials I study much, but I suspect that, in
production, they either do their drilling while the glass is in the
annealed state, or they have a way of locally annealing it after
tempering.

As for gluing to it, there has been good advice in this thread. You
can get a very strong bond with the right materials and technique.


The glue may need to be somewhat flexible to allow different rates of
expansion between the glass and the frame. Or arrange the frame to be made
in parts than can slip or flex slightly as the glass expands/contracts.

If the rear window is already held in with glue, just use the same stuff.
They've already solved that problem.

The other alternative is to make a frame with a flange that will mate with a
standard windshield rubber gasket. The glass sits in one slot in the
gasket, the frame in another. Turning the gasket around (frame on the
outside, glass toward the inside) might allow the face of the rubber gasket
to act as a weather seal against the car body.
I keep thinking about this even though I'll probably not do it. My
thinking is that the frame should have a flange that protrudes into
the car interior about .5 inches. It should also have provisions for 8
clips, two per side, that trap the glass in case of glue failure. I
doubt that the glue would fail because I would be using the factory
glue. The flange is for stiffness and maybe for sealing. The way the
hatch is made provides for a standard type of seal that is already
being used in cars that have an openable rear window. I want the
opening window so that I can carry long items (over 8 feet long) and
so that I can have really good air flow on hot days. Of course the
real reason for this type of mod is to show off to all those young
whippersnappers out there who have one of these cars and the only
things custom are bolt on items. I have already figured out how to add
a cruise control that rotates with the steering wheel and the last of
the radio control parts just arrived Monday. I have bench tested the
wireless cruise control buttons and they work as planned.
Eric

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 10:56:38 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:17:46 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Artemus" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
So I have this wild idea to make the rear window on my Scion xB
openable. It is of course made from tempered glass and so making
holes
in it won't work. I am pretty sure I have seen handles glued to
windows on cars but I'm not sure. The rear window is now just glued
to
the rear hatch. I'm thinking that if it was removed a gasket could
be
installed, and hinges, gas springs, and a latch installed. So can
this
be done? Anyone here done this? I'm pretty sure that making the
hinge
assembly, latches, and handle won't present any real challenges.
After
all, I do have a complete mahine shop and I am a machinist.
Eric

Think about the other end. Windshields are glued in with a silicone
adhesive and the rear view mirrors are glued to the glass too.
Art

The latch, wiper, struts, brake light and hinges on my Honda's glass
upper hatch are attached with thru-hole fittings. The heater grid
contacts are bonded to the glass.

Art's point, though, is that "tempered" glass is very highly stressed.
The surfaces are in compression and the core is in tension. If you
drill it, or even scratch it deeply, it *may* propagate a crack
through the glass and shatter it into chunks (not sharp shards).

Glass is not among the materials I study much, but I suspect that, in
production, they either do their drilling while the glass is in the
annealed state, or they have a way of locally annealing it after
tempering.

As for gluing to it, there has been good advice in this thread. You
can get a very strong bond with the right materials and technique.


The glue may need to be somewhat flexible to allow different rates of
expansion between the glass and the frame. Or arrange the frame to be made
in parts than can slip or flex slightly as the glass expands/contracts.

If the rear window is already held in with glue, just use the same stuff.
They've already solved that problem.

The other alternative is to make a frame with a flange that will mate with a
standard windshield rubber gasket. The glass sits in one slot in the
gasket, the frame in another. Turning the gasket around (frame on the
outside, glass toward the inside) might allow the face of the rubber gasket
to act as a weather seal against the car body.

I'm kinda surprised that no PEs have suggested that the existing glass
window wasn't designed to be handled in the manner Eric is suggesting.
That's some major torque in what? A 2sq/in area on each side.

--
[Television is] the triumph of machine over people.
-- Fred Allen

On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 17:11:53 -0700, wrote:

So I have this wild idea to make the rear window on my Scion xB
openable. It is of course made from tempered glass and so making holes
in it won't work. I am pretty sure I have seen handles glued to
windows on cars but I'm not sure. The rear window is now just glued to
the rear hatch. I'm thinking that if it was removed a gasket could be
installed, and hinges, gas springs, and a latch installed. So can this
be done? Anyone here done this? I'm pretty sure that making the hinge
assembly, latches, and handle won't present any real challenges. After
all, I do have a complete mahine shop and I am a machinist.
Eric

Well, rear view mirrors are often glued to the glass. They even make a
special glue for it - saw some in Home Pro. But I've also seen what I
assumed to be tempered glass windows with holes drilled in them.

Or, you could just make a new window from Plexiglas :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

wrote:
So I have this wild idea to make the rear window on my Scion xB
openable. It is of course made from tempered glass and so making holes
in it won't work. I am pretty sure I have seen handles glued to
windows on cars but I'm not sure. The rear window is now just glued to
the rear hatch. I'm thinking that if it was removed a gasket could be
installed, and hinges, gas springs, and a latch installed. So can this
be done? Anyone here done this? I'm pretty sure that making the hinge
assembly, latches, and handle won't present any real challenges. After
all, I do have a complete mahine shop and I am a machinist.
Eric

Not that difficult to glue metal to glass. Hit a glass shop and they
will sell you the supplies. It take an etchant on the glass and a
special adhesive.

However if that vehicle is like many of the newer ones that glass is
probably a structural part of the hatch. You may need to add some extra
metal to the frame of the hatch to make up for the lack of the glass.

Then you need to come up with a way to seal it when closed to keep
rain/air out.

--
Steve W.

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 00:39:54 -0400, Steve W. wrote:

wrote:

However if that vehicle is like many of the newer ones that glass is
probably a structural part of the hatch. You may need to add some extra
metal to the frame of the hatch to make up for the lack of the glass.

Chicken Little say "yup".

Do it if the trip is worth the time and possible new rear window.
Otherwise, find other ways to customize the car.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com