"Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable)"
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 19:34:43 -0500, Ignoramus10926
wrote:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Union-Pac...Locomotive.jpg

Nothing - they recycled some of the doors from another locomotive that
had the lettering laid out differently - note the background yellow is
more faded on the forward doors. They save everything that's still
usable, and raid the boneyard for parts just like you do.

And the paint jobs are low priority, until there's a capital
investment program to re-paint them al in a new color scheme. A lot
of times it's "get it back in service and making us money" period.

The extra louvers on the rear doors might have been from adding
dynamic braking resistors to a loco that wasn't built with them - you
really don't know unless you have the shop records, or ask the
engineer operating it.

That would be far from the first monster that a railroad has built -
they took all the surviving EMD F series streamline locomotives and
re-bodied them into freight locomotives, because you couldn't see for
beans with the full bodies on them. You don't need to see close for
mainline cross-country work, but you do for switching and siding
deliveries.

They take locomotives with blown engines or wrecked bodies, whack off
the body, and turn them into "Slugs" - powered trucks for climbing
hills. At low speeds the generator in the locomotive is turning full
speed and putting out full power - but the motors in the trucks can't
use it all without burning up because they're creeping. (Even with
external fan cooling.) A Slug gets power from the lead power unit
locomotive.

That's ackshooly a good idear.
Altho they can also just put smaller (or more) locomotives in the consist,
and not drive any given diesel so hard, because most locomotives have the
provision where one locomotive can be made the "master" locomotive, and the
others in the consist are made "slaves" -- even tho each locomotive is
independently identical. So it's not necessary to have a slug as the slave.
So all locomotives in the consist are powered/revved up by the engineer's
controller in the head-out (pulling) locomotive. Which would include slugs
in the consist, as well.
And the master/slave status of any locomotive can be switched over as
necessary, usually between the two locomotives at either end of the consist.

So altho the slug is a nice and cheaper solution, it's not a necessary
solution, since the provision for distributed power is already built in to
each locomotive itself.
Again, traction can be as much of an issue as raw power itself. Altho, the
six-axle config of these high-hp locomotives certainly helps.
--
EA





Union Pacific even ran Gas Turbines for a while - Jet Engines running
on #6 Bunker Oil pre-heated. And they parked under bridges and melted
the asphalt off the road deck a few times... But when the supply of
cheap heavy bunker oil went away (as they figured out how to crack and
refine it into gasoline and diesel) so did they.

-- Bruce --

On 2013-06-30, Existential Angst wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 21:39:35 -0700, Bob Gentry wrote:

On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 19:34:43 -0500, Ignoramus10926
wrote:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Union-Pac...Locomotive.jpg


Somebody can't spell!

Front loco. and the one behind it have the same spelling error

Bob
rgentryatozdotnet
The "Union Pacif" part of the name is on brighter yellow panels than
the "ific" part - and also several inches higher on the loco - so I
suspect side panels from a different loco have been installed.

The sign is correctly spelled on the loco in the background.
You can see this same engine (UP5720) in motion - sighns correct -
at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0ngPDZw08k
Also he http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPUUmQercbw

It is a GE AC4400CW with Computerized Tractive Effort option - 4400 HP
AC traction motors built between 1993 and 2004. Union Pacific alne
owns 1338 of these locomotives.

AC indicates AC traction motors (with separate inverters for each
motor for speed control). The 4400 is the horsepower, the C indicates
6 axle trucks (in place of the B series 4 axle trucks) and the W
signifies the "americannsafety" or "wide" cab.
The same basic trainwas also built with 6000 HP as the AC6000CW
series.


See :
http://images.wikia.com/locomotive/i...W_OLS_logo.jpg
for an AC4400CW-CTE and note the location of the final "IFIC" of the
signage and imagine it on the opposite side. The "Operation
Lifesaver" and "we deliver" Are missing on the picture in question

Notice the size of the fuel tanks.... holy ****....
Plus, in very cold weather, some railroads leave these diesels on 24/7.

All of them do it. They use water instead of antifreeze and cannot
allow it to freeze.

These diesel electrics also run hyoooge (often) Quincy air compressors, for
the train-line braking system.
Also inneresting is that in at least some diesel-electric designs, the
generator also acts as the starter motor for the diesel -- super cool, imo.

And gentle for the motor.

i

On 2013-06-30, Existential Angst wrote:
"Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable)"
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 19:34:43 -0500, Ignoramus10926
wrote:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Union-Pac...Locomotive.jpg

Nothing - they recycled some of the doors from another locomotive that
had the lettering laid out differently - note the background yellow is
more faded on the forward doors. They save everything that's still
usable, and raid the boneyard for parts just like you do.

And the paint jobs are low priority, until there's a capital
investment program to re-paint them al in a new color scheme. A lot
of times it's "get it back in service and making us money" period.

The extra louvers on the rear doors might have been from adding
dynamic braking resistors to a loco that wasn't built with them - you
really don't know unless you have the shop records, or ask the
engineer operating it.

There's not much point to dynamic braking on a diesel, no matter how big.
The reason is most of the freight consist cannot brake regeneratively, and
instead uses "train-line" compressed air from the diesel-driven compressors
for braking -- since there are no motors on any other cars for
regeneration..

Trains do have regenerative braking, meaning that their electric
motors generate electricity to slow down the train. But that
electricity is purposely wasted in the braking resistors.

i

"Ignoramus13067" wrote in message
...
On 2013-06-30, Existential Angst wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 21:39:35 -0700, Bob Gentry wrote:

On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 19:34:43 -0500, Ignoramus10926
wrote:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Union-Pac...Locomotive.jpg


Somebody can't spell!

Front loco. and the one behind it have the same spelling error

Bob
rgentryatozdotnet
The "Union Pacif" part of the name is on brighter yellow panels than
the "ific" part - and also several inches higher on the loco - so I
suspect side panels from a different loco have been installed.

The sign is correctly spelled on the loco in the background.
You can see this same engine (UP5720) in motion - sighns correct -
at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0ngPDZw08k
Also he http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPUUmQercbw

It is a GE AC4400CW with Computerized Tractive Effort option - 4400 HP
AC traction motors built between 1993 and 2004. Union Pacific alne
owns 1338 of these locomotives.

AC indicates AC traction motors (with separate inverters for each
motor for speed control). The 4400 is the horsepower, the C indicates
6 axle trucks (in place of the B series 4 axle trucks) and the W
signifies the "americannsafety" or "wide" cab.
The same basic trainwas also built with 6000 HP as the AC6000CW
series.


See :
http://images.wikia.com/locomotive/i...W_OLS_logo.jpg
for an AC4400CW-CTE and note the location of the final "IFIC" of the
signage and imagine it on the opposite side. The "Operation
Lifesaver" and "we deliver" Are missing on the picture in question

Notice the size of the fuel tanks.... holy ****....
Plus, in very cold weather, some railroads leave these diesels on 24/7.

All of them do it. They use water instead of antifreeze and cannot
allow it to freeze.

Well, I don't know about water. The diesels I'm familiar with use
antifreeze. Why would diesels, big or small, use pure water?? For a variety
of reasons, corrosion just one among them.

The main reason, afaict, is like trucks: cold-weather starting of diesel
fuel. The only reason not to leave the engine running would be electric
heat for, well, everything fuel related, which might burn more energy than
letting the engine idle.


These diesel electrics also run hyoooge (often) Quincy air compressors,
for
the train-line braking system.
Also inneresting is that in at least some diesel-electric designs, the
generator also acts as the starter motor for the diesel -- super cool,
imo.

And gentle for the motor.

Why especially gentle?? I figgered it was pure economy of function.
--
EA



i

"Ignoramus13067" wrote in message
...
On 2013-06-30, Existential Angst wrote:
"Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable)"
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 19:34:43 -0500, Ignoramus10926
wrote:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Union-Pac...Locomotive.jpg

Nothing - they recycled some of the doors from another locomotive that
had the lettering laid out differently - note the background yellow is
more faded on the forward doors. They save everything that's still
usable, and raid the boneyard for parts just like you do.

And the paint jobs are low priority, until there's a capital
investment program to re-paint them al in a new color scheme. A lot
of times it's "get it back in service and making us money" period.

The extra louvers on the rear doors might have been from adding
dynamic braking resistors to a loco that wasn't built with them - you
really don't know unless you have the shop records, or ask the
engineer operating it.

There's not much point to dynamic braking on a diesel, no matter how big.
The reason is most of the freight consist cannot brake regeneratively,
and
instead uses "train-line" compressed air from the diesel-driven
compressors
for braking -- since there are no motors on any other cars for
regeneration..

Trains do have regenerative braking, meaning that their electric
motors generate electricity to slow down the train. But that
electricity is purposely wasted in the braking resistors.

*Passenger cars* with electric motors almost universally use regenerative
braking.
But it's pointless in diesel locomotives. If a 6,000 hp diesel is hauling a
consist of, say, 100 cars, and NONE of those cars have electric motors, ergo
no capacity for regen brakes, what purpose does the regen braking in the
locomotive itself serve? Itsa drop in a bucket.

The diesels I'm familiar with in fact do *not* have regen brakes, and there
is no real reason for ANY diesel to use regenerative brakes, unless it is
shuttling around consists considerably lighter than itself. And then, in
this case, the speeds are so low that regen braking is ineffective. Regen
braking needs about 10 mph min, and that's often the max allowable speed in
switching/train yards. Below 20 mph, regen braking is minorly effective,
perhaps the "break-even" point between regen and friction.

I'm not saying there are no diesels with regen brakes. I'm saying it's
pretty pointless for diesels to have them, AND not all of them do. It would
be understandable, and no slight of design, if in fact few of them have
regen brakes.
The diesels that would benefit from regen brakes would be diesels doing a
lot of solo travel, or hauling short consists at high-ish speeds.
But both of these functions violate the intended purpose of diesel
locomotives, and thus are likely not common scenarios.

As I mentioned, what diesel locomotives DO have are hyooge air
compressors -- for about 100 psi or so trainline air pressure -- to activate
the friction brakes of every single car (heh, every axle) in the consist,
clear down to the caboose.

There are two ways to activate trainline brakes. One is to have huge air
tanks in the locomotive supply all the trainline air for braking, right to
the brake pistons.
The other more efficient way is to have each car with its own reserve tank,
and the air from the diesel locomotive activates electromagnetic valves in
each car, which release a specific car's stored air to that car's brakes.
Thus, the air from the locomotive is more of an "air signal" than the actual
"brake air" or "piston air" itself -- that air is supplied by the local
reserve tanks.

On electric passengar cars, each car (or every other car in a "married
pair") has its own supply tank AND compressor, with the operating engineer
controlling the trainline "signal air", which activates each passengar car's
electromagnetic valve between the brake piston and the supply/reserve
airtanks. Signal air is stored in its own tank. And these cars also have
regen braking as well, which is ALSO controlled by the trainline air signal!
Highspeed braking in electric passenger cars is nearly 100% dynamic or regen
braking, with the friction brakes kicking in at under 20 mph.

Altho some ultra modern systems may dispense with air signalling in favor of
electric signalling, new cars being delivered to the NYC subway system are
ALL outfitted with the trainline air signalling system -- for a variety of
reasons, also having to do with tripping the emergency brakes of trains.
This too could be accomplished electrically, but to this day, air is used.

Freight consists do not generally have the dynamic/friction crossover, they
are all friction.
--
EA



i

I guess I missed out on the OP, and it's hard to follow now, but the
pix I see is normal. It is a 4400 HP, GE AC44CWCTE. It has some
extra-ordinary roof equipment, some of which is the standard dynamic
braking resistors, and some looks like extra cooling but I'm not sure.

Here's a series of pix of 5720 running:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoPicture.aspx?id=56790

Take care.

Brian Lawson

On Mon, 01 Jul 2013 16:15:52 -0400, Brian Lawson
wrote:



I guess I missed out on the OP, and it's hard to follow now, but the
pix I see is normal. It is a 4400 HP, GE AC44CWCTE. It has some
extra-ordinary roof equipment, some of which is the standard dynamic
braking resistors, and some looks like extra cooling but I'm not sure.

Here's a series of pix of 5720 running:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoPicture.aspx?id=56790

Take care.

Brian Lawson
Note in the last picture of the set (November 2012) the engine had
mismatched side panels on it. - on the opposite side shown in the
"what's wrong" picture.