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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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4140 internal stresses
I just got to wondering about internal stresses in 4140 round stock . I'm making a part for an oilless compressor , and have it roughed a bit oversize .. I know that some steels and other metals develop internal stress from forming operations , and need a few hours to let the stresses equalize before finishing machining so the finished part doesn't distort . Got to wondering if 4140 is one of them . -- Snag |
#2
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4140 internal stresses
"Terry Coombs" wrote in message ... I just got to wondering about internal stresses in 4140 round stock . I'm making a part for an oilless compressor , and have it roughed a bit oversize . I know that some steels and other metals develop internal stress from forming operations , and need a few hours to let the stresses equalize before finishing machining so the finished part doesn't distort . Got to wondering if 4140 is one of them . -- Snag It is generally accepted that all parts have stress, the result of the manufacturing procedure, as you alluded. Hot rolled materials tend to have much less. Good shop practice dictates that one roughs parts, leaving sufficient material for finish machining, with total cleanup. The less material remaining, the better, as the piece will more closely represent the finished object, and the small amount of material removed in the process should make very little difference in movement of the part. I expect that unless you have a very critical dimension, less than .0002" tolerance, you should be fine. Nice job. I spend a lot of my time trying to have folks understand that roughing is a very important part of machining. Some don't pay attention (until they have the pleasure of reviewing the resulting scrap, anyway). Time can be a factor, but the roughing should release much of the stress. If you have doubts, allow the part to age a day. Harold |
#3
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4140 internal stresses
"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
... "Terry Coombs" wrote in message ... I just got to wondering about internal stresses in 4140 round stock . I'm making a part for an oilless compressor , and have it roughed a bit oversize . I know that some steels and other metals develop internal stress from forming operations , and need a few hours to let the stresses equalize before finishing machining so the finished part doesn't distort . Got to wondering if 4140 is one of them . -- Snag It is generally accepted that all parts have stress, the result of the manufacturing procedure, as you alluded. Hot rolled materials tend to have much less. Good shop practice dictates that one roughs parts, leaving sufficient material for finish machining, with total cleanup. The less material remaining, the better, as the piece will more closely represent the finished object, and the small amount of material removed in the process should make very little difference in movement of the part. I expect that unless you have a very critical dimension, less than .0002" tolerance, you should be fine. Nice job. I spend a lot of my time trying to have folks understand that roughing is a very important part of machining. Some don't pay attention (until they have the pleasure of reviewing the resulting scrap, anyway). Time can be a factor, but the roughing should release much of the stress. If you have doubts, allow the part to age a day. Harold I backed off the chuck jaws a tad before I came in , rechucked it after a couple of hours . After recentering it I found about .002 runout on the last area I'd machined same setup . Looks like it might have had a bit of stress . I'll finish it up today . -- Snag |
#4
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4140 internal stresses
On 4/12/2013 12:02 AM, Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:
"Terry Coombs" wrote in message ... I just got to wondering about internal stresses in 4140 round stock . I'm making a part for an oilless compressor , and have it roughed a bit oversize . I know that some steels and other metals develop internal stress from forming operations , and need a few hours to let the stresses equalize before finishing machining so the finished part doesn't distort . Got to wondering if 4140 is one of them . -- Snag It is generally accepted that all parts have stress, the result of the manufacturing procedure, as you alluded. Hot rolled materials tend to have much less. Good shop practice dictates that one roughs parts, leaving sufficient material for finish machining, with total cleanup. The less material remaining, the better, as the piece will more closely represent the finished object, and the small amount of material removed in the process should make very little difference in movement of the part. I expect that unless you have a very critical dimension, less than .0002" tolerance, you should be fine. Nice job. I spend a lot of my time trying to have folks understand that roughing is a very important part of machining. Some don't pay attention (until they have the pleasure of reviewing the resulting scrap, anyway). Time can be a factor, but the roughing should release much of the stress. If you have doubts, allow the part to age a day. Harold We call it "Roomalizing"! |
#5
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4140 internal stresses
On 4/12/2013 8:13 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message ... "Terry Coombs" wrote in message ... I just got to wondering about internal stresses in 4140 round stock . I'm making a part for an oilless compressor , and have it roughed a bit oversize . I know that some steels and other metals develop internal stress from forming operations , and need a few hours to let the stresses equalize before finishing machining so the finished part doesn't distort . Got to wondering if 4140 is one of them . -- Snag It is generally accepted that all parts have stress, the result of the manufacturing procedure, as you alluded. Hot rolled materials tend to have much less. Good shop practice dictates that one roughs parts, leaving sufficient material for finish machining, with total cleanup. The less material remaining, the better, as the piece will more closely represent the finished object, and the small amount of material removed in the process should make very little difference in movement of the part. I expect that unless you have a very critical dimension, less than .0002" tolerance, you should be fine. Nice job. I spend a lot of my time trying to have folks understand that roughing is a very important part of machining. Some don't pay attention (until they have the pleasure of reviewing the resulting scrap, anyway). Time can be a factor, but the roughing should release much of the stress. If you have doubts, allow the part to age a day. Harold I backed off the chuck jaws a tad before I came in , rechucked it after a couple of hours . After recentering it I found about .002 runout on the last area I'd machined same setup . Looks like it might have had a bit of stress . I'll finish it up today . Speaking of which, would you have a piece of 4140 that is 6" x 2" x 3/4" or thereabouts that you could sell? |
#6
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4140 internal stresses
"Tom Gardner" Mars@Tacks wrote in message ... On 4/12/2013 8:13 AM, Terry Coombs wrote: "Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message ... "Terry Coombs" wrote in message ... I just got to wondering about internal stresses in 4140 round stock . I'm making a part for an oilless compressor , and have it roughed a bit oversize . I know that some steels and other metals develop internal stress from forming operations , and need a few hours to let the stresses equalize before finishing machining so the finished part doesn't distort . Got to wondering if 4140 is one of them . -- Snag It is generally accepted that all parts have stress, the result of the manufacturing procedure, as you alluded. Hot rolled materials tend to have much less. Good shop practice dictates that one roughs parts, leaving sufficient material for finish machining, with total cleanup. The less material remaining, the better, as the piece will more closely represent the finished object, and the small amount of material removed in the process should make very little difference in movement of the part. I expect that unless you have a very critical dimension, less than .0002" tolerance, you should be fine. Nice job. I spend a lot of my time trying to have folks understand that roughing is a very important part of machining. Some don't pay attention (until they have the pleasure of reviewing the resulting scrap, anyway). Time can be a factor, but the roughing should release much of the stress. If you have doubts, allow the part to age a day. Harold I backed off the chuck jaws a tad before I came in , rechucked it after a couple of hours . After recentering it I found about .002 runout on the last area I'd machined same setup . Looks like it might have had a bit of stress . I'll finish it up today . Speaking of which, would you have a piece of 4140 that is 6" x 2" x 3/4" or thereabouts that you could sell? Nope , all I have is rounds in 1.250 and 1.5" or maybe 1.75 , didn't measure it because the 1.25 was big enough here in . Now I have some unidentified bigger 2.375 and 3.125 IIRC rounds in Memphis that machine and harden like 4140 , but I really don't know for sure what they are . -- Snag |
#7
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4140 internal stresses
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 13:54:57 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote: "Tom Gardner" Mars@Tacks wrote in message m... On 4/12/2013 8:13 AM, Terry Coombs wrote: "Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message ... "Terry Coombs" wrote in message ... I just got to wondering about internal stresses in 4140 round stock . I'm making a part for an oilless compressor , and have it roughed a bit oversize . I know that some steels and other metals develop internal stress from forming operations , and need a few hours to let the stresses equalize before finishing machining so the finished part doesn't distort . Got to wondering if 4140 is one of them . -- Snag It is generally accepted that all parts have stress, the result of the manufacturing procedure, as you alluded. Hot rolled materials tend to have much less. Good shop practice dictates that one roughs parts, leaving sufficient material for finish machining, with total cleanup. The less material remaining, the better, as the piece will more closely represent the finished object, and the small amount of material removed in the process should make very little difference in movement of the part. I expect that unless you have a very critical dimension, less than .0002" tolerance, you should be fine. Nice job. I spend a lot of my time trying to have folks understand that roughing is a very important part of machining. Some don't pay attention (until they have the pleasure of reviewing the resulting scrap, anyway). Time can be a factor, but the roughing should release much of the stress. If you have doubts, allow the part to age a day. Harold I backed off the chuck jaws a tad before I came in , rechucked it after a couple of hours . After recentering it I found about .002 runout on the last area I'd machined same setup . Looks like it might have had a bit of stress . I'll finish it up today . Speaking of which, would you have a piece of 4140 that is 6" x 2" x 3/4" or thereabouts that you could sell? Nope , all I have is rounds in 1.250 and 1.5" or maybe 1.75 , didn't measure it because the 1.25 was big enough here in . Now I have some unidentified bigger 2.375 and 3.125 IIRC rounds in Memphis that machine and harden like 4140 , but I really don't know for sure what they are . Keep in mind that mechanical stresses will be relieved right away. If it changes over time, it's the result of improper heat treatment, with delayed martensite conversion. That's a lot less common. BTW, do you still want to know what metallurgists say about casting 7075 aluminum? I came across a couple of things, but they mostly dismiss it without getting into measured results. -- Ed Huntress |
#8
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4140 internal stresses
"Ed Huntress" wrote
BTW, do you still want to know what metallurgists say about casting 7075 aluminum? I came across a couple of things, but they mostly dismiss it without getting into measured results. -- Ed Huntress Shirley I do . More knowledge is almost always a good thing . -- Snag |
#9
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4140 internal stresses
On 4/12/2013 2:54 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
"Tom Gardner" Mars@Tacks wrote in message ... On 4/12/2013 8:13 AM, Terry Coombs wrote: "Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message ... "Terry Coombs" wrote in message ... I just got to wondering about internal stresses in 4140 round stock . I'm making a part for an oilless compressor , and have it roughed a bit oversize . I know that some steels and other metals develop internal stress from forming operations , and need a few hours to let the stresses equalize before finishing machining so the finished part doesn't distort . Got to wondering if 4140 is one of them . -- Snag It is generally accepted that all parts have stress, the result of the manufacturing procedure, as you alluded. Hot rolled materials tend to have much less. Good shop practice dictates that one roughs parts, leaving sufficient material for finish machining, with total cleanup. The less material remaining, the better, as the piece will more closely represent the finished object, and the small amount of material removed in the process should make very little difference in movement of the part. I expect that unless you have a very critical dimension, less than .0002" tolerance, you should be fine. Nice job. I spend a lot of my time trying to have folks understand that roughing is a very important part of machining. Some don't pay attention (until they have the pleasure of reviewing the resulting scrap, anyway). Time can be a factor, but the roughing should release much of the stress. If you have doubts, allow the part to age a day. Harold I backed off the chuck jaws a tad before I came in , rechucked it after a couple of hours . After recentering it I found about .002 runout on the last area I'd machined same setup . Looks like it might have had a bit of stress . I'll finish it up today . Speaking of which, would you have a piece of 4140 that is 6" x 2" x 3/4" or thereabouts that you could sell? Nope , all I have is rounds in 1.250 and 1.5" or maybe 1.75 , didn't measure it because the 1.25 was big enough here in . Now I have some unidentified bigger 2.375 and 3.125 IIRC rounds in Memphis that machine and harden like 4140 , but I really don't know for sure what they are . Thanks anyway. I need to make an arm that holds a carbide square like an arm on a pair of scissors. The current one is cold-roll and is flexing too muck under pressure. Ya' think 4140 would be a better choice? |
#10
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4140 internal stresses
"Tom Gardner" Mars@Tacks wrote in message ... Thanks anyway. I need to make an arm that holds a carbide square like an arm on a pair of scissors. The current one is cold-roll and is flexing too muck under pressure. Ya' think 4140 would be a better choice? Probably not. The modulus of elasticity will be the some. The yield will go up, so it will bend farther before it takes a set, but it will flex just as far with the same load. Redesign the part to have more meat in it. Paul K. Dickman |
#11
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4140 internal stresses
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 20:02:37 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:
On 4/12/2013 2:54 PM, Terry Coombs wrote: "Tom Gardner" Mars@Tacks wrote in message ... On 4/12/2013 8:13 AM, Terry Coombs wrote: "Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message ... "Terry Coombs" wrote in message ... I just got to wondering about internal stresses in 4140 round stock . I'm making a part for an oilless compressor , and have it roughed a bit oversize . I know that some steels and other metals develop internal stress from forming operations , and need a few hours to let the stresses equalize before finishing machining so the finished part doesn't distort . Got to wondering if 4140 is one of them . -- Snag It is generally accepted that all parts have stress, the result of the manufacturing procedure, as you alluded. Hot rolled materials tend to have much less. Good shop practice dictates that one roughs parts, leaving sufficient material for finish machining, with total cleanup. The less material remaining, the better, as the piece will more closely represent the finished object, and the small amount of material removed in the process should make very little difference in movement of the part. I expect that unless you have a very critical dimension, less than .0002" tolerance, you should be fine. Nice job. I spend a lot of my time trying to have folks understand that roughing is a very important part of machining. Some don't pay attention (until they have the pleasure of reviewing the resulting scrap, anyway). Time can be a factor, but the roughing should release much of the stress. If you have doubts, allow the part to age a day. Harold I backed off the chuck jaws a tad before I came in , rechucked it after a couple of hours . After recentering it I found about .002 runout on the last area I'd machined same setup . Looks like it might have had a bit of stress . I'll finish it up today . Speaking of which, would you have a piece of 4140 that is 6" x 2" x 3/4" or thereabouts that you could sell? Nope , all I have is rounds in 1.250 and 1.5" or maybe 1.75 , didn't measure it because the 1.25 was big enough here in . Now I have some unidentified bigger 2.375 and 3.125 IIRC rounds in Memphis that machine and harden like 4140 , but I really don't know for sure what they are . Thanks anyway. I need to make an arm that holds a carbide square like an arm on a pair of scissors. The current one is cold-roll and is flexing too muck under pressure. Ya' think 4140 would be a better choice? The flexing -- that is, the spring rate without taking a set -- is the same for all grades on steel, within a couple of percent. More correctly, they all have about the same Young's Modulus, and it doesn't matter how they're heat treated or work-hardened. The modulus will be the same. That is, except for stainless, which is a little springier (lower Young's Modulus). -- Ed Huntress |
#12
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4140 internal stresses
On 4/12/2013 9:16 PM, Paul K. Dickman wrote:
"Tom Gardner" Mars@Tacks wrote in message ... Thanks anyway. I need to make an arm that holds a carbide square like an arm on a pair of scissors. The current one is cold-roll and is flexing too muck under pressure. Ya' think 4140 would be a better choice? Probably not. The modulus of elasticity will be the some. The yield will go up, so it will bend farther before it takes a set, but it will flex just as far with the same load. Redesign the part to have more meat in it. Paul K. Dickman I was afraid of that but I can add 20%-25% where it counts. What about hard D-2? |
#13
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4140 internal stresses
On 4/12/2013 10:17 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 20:02:37 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote: On 4/12/2013 2:54 PM, Terry Coombs wrote: "Tom Gardner" Mars@Tacks wrote in message ... On 4/12/2013 8:13 AM, Terry Coombs wrote: "Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message ... "Terry Coombs" wrote in message ... I just got to wondering about internal stresses in 4140 round stock . I'm making a part for an oilless compressor , and have it roughed a bit oversize . I know that some steels and other metals develop internal stress from forming operations , and need a few hours to let the stresses equalize before finishing machining so the finished part doesn't distort . Got to wondering if 4140 is one of them . -- Snag It is generally accepted that all parts have stress, the result of the manufacturing procedure, as you alluded. Hot rolled materials tend to have much less. Good shop practice dictates that one roughs parts, leaving sufficient material for finish machining, with total cleanup. The less material remaining, the better, as the piece will more closely represent the finished object, and the small amount of material removed in the process should make very little difference in movement of the part. I expect that unless you have a very critical dimension, less than .0002" tolerance, you should be fine. Nice job. I spend a lot of my time trying to have folks understand that roughing is a very important part of machining. Some don't pay attention (until they have the pleasure of reviewing the resulting scrap, anyway). Time can be a factor, but the roughing should release much of the stress. If you have doubts, allow the part to age a day. Harold I backed off the chuck jaws a tad before I came in , rechucked it after a couple of hours . After recentering it I found about .002 runout on the last area I'd machined same setup . Looks like it might have had a bit of stress . I'll finish it up today . Speaking of which, would you have a piece of 4140 that is 6" x 2" x 3/4" or thereabouts that you could sell? Nope , all I have is rounds in 1.250 and 1.5" or maybe 1.75 , didn't measure it because the 1.25 was big enough here in . Now I have some unidentified bigger 2.375 and 3.125 IIRC rounds in Memphis that machine and harden like 4140 , but I really don't know for sure what they are . Thanks anyway. I need to make an arm that holds a carbide square like an arm on a pair of scissors. The current one is cold-roll and is flexing too muck under pressure. Ya' think 4140 would be a better choice? The flexing -- that is, the spring rate without taking a set -- is the same for all grades on steel, within a couple of percent. More correctly, they all have about the same Young's Modulus, and it doesn't matter how they're heat treated or work-hardened. The modulus will be the same. That is, except for stainless, which is a little springier (lower Young's Modulus). My cousin told me that, I was hoping he was wrong. I could make it out of Ti and/or go from 5/8" to 3/4" or a scooch more. |
#14
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4140 internal stresses
On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 00:43:43 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:
On 4/12/2013 10:17 PM, Ed Huntress wrote: On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 20:02:37 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote: On 4/12/2013 2:54 PM, Terry Coombs wrote: "Tom Gardner" Mars@Tacks wrote in message ... On 4/12/2013 8:13 AM, Terry Coombs wrote: "Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message ... "Terry Coombs" wrote in message ... I just got to wondering about internal stresses in 4140 round stock . I'm making a part for an oilless compressor , and have it roughed a bit oversize . I know that some steels and other metals develop internal stress from forming operations , and need a few hours to let the stresses equalize before finishing machining so the finished part doesn't distort . Got to wondering if 4140 is one of them . -- Snag It is generally accepted that all parts have stress, the result of the manufacturing procedure, as you alluded. Hot rolled materials tend to have much less. Good shop practice dictates that one roughs parts, leaving sufficient material for finish machining, with total cleanup. The less material remaining, the better, as the piece will more closely represent the finished object, and the small amount of material removed in the process should make very little difference in movement of the part. I expect that unless you have a very critical dimension, less than .0002" tolerance, you should be fine. Nice job. I spend a lot of my time trying to have folks understand that roughing is a very important part of machining. Some don't pay attention (until they have the pleasure of reviewing the resulting scrap, anyway). Time can be a factor, but the roughing should release much of the stress. If you have doubts, allow the part to age a day. Harold I backed off the chuck jaws a tad before I came in , rechucked it after a couple of hours . After recentering it I found about .002 runout on the last area I'd machined same setup . Looks like it might have had a bit of stress . I'll finish it up today . Speaking of which, would you have a piece of 4140 that is 6" x 2" x 3/4" or thereabouts that you could sell? Nope , all I have is rounds in 1.250 and 1.5" or maybe 1.75 , didn't measure it because the 1.25 was big enough here in . Now I have some unidentified bigger 2.375 and 3.125 IIRC rounds in Memphis that machine and harden like 4140 , but I really don't know for sure what they are . Thanks anyway. I need to make an arm that holds a carbide square like an arm on a pair of scissors. The current one is cold-roll and is flexing too muck under pressure. Ya' think 4140 would be a better choice? The flexing -- that is, the spring rate without taking a set -- is the same for all grades on steel, within a couple of percent. More correctly, they all have about the same Young's Modulus, and it doesn't matter how they're heat treated or work-hardened. The modulus will be the same. That is, except for stainless, which is a little springier (lower Young's Modulus). My cousin told me that, I was hoping he was wrong. I could make it out of Ti and/or go from 5/8" to 3/4" or a scooch more. Not titanium! It's MUCH springier than steel. The Young's modulus for steel runs around 30 (don't worry about the units). For titanium, it's around 16 -- about the same as gray cast iron (14) . Aluminum is around 10. Tungsten is a little over 60. Tungsten carbide is close to 70. On the other hand, stiffness is a function of the *cube* of thickness (called "plate stiffness"). So making your part a little thicker will improve its stiffness by a lot more than you might think. In your example of going from 5/8 to 3/4, the part would be 1.2 times thicker but 1.73 times stiffer. -- Ed Huntress |
#15
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4140 internal stresses
Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote in
: snip The flexing -- that is, the spring rate without taking a set -- is the same for all grades on steel, within a couple of percent. More correctly, they all have about the same Young's Modulus, and it doesn't matter how they're heat treated or work-hardened. The modulus will be the same. That is, except for stainless, which is a little springier (lower Young's Modulus). My cousin told me that, I was hoping he was wrong. I could make it out of Ti and/or go from 5/8" to 3/4" or a scooch more. I'm a little rusty on this stuff, but for a simple rectangular bar, I believe the stiffness goes up as the cube of the dimension. You shouldn't have to add much to make it significantly stiffer. 5/8" to 3/4" would almost double the stiffness (halve the deflection). Adding a rib could do a lot, if there is room. Doug White |
#16
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4140 internal stresses
On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 13:56:06 GMT, Doug White
wrote: Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote in : snip The flexing -- that is, the spring rate without taking a set -- is the same for all grades on steel, within a couple of percent. More correctly, they all have about the same Young's Modulus, and it doesn't matter how they're heat treated or work-hardened. The modulus will be the same. That is, except for stainless, which is a little springier (lower Young's Modulus). My cousin told me that, I was hoping he was wrong. I could make it out of Ti and/or go from 5/8" to 3/4" or a scooch more. I'm a little rusty on this stuff, but for a simple rectangular bar, I believe the stiffness goes up as the cube of the dimension. You shouldn't have to add much to make it significantly stiffer. 5/8" to 3/4" would almost double the stiffness (halve the deflection). Adding a rib could do a lot, if there is room. A rib, or better yet use U-Channel so the face and stiffening ribs are all one integral piece, and a chunk of thick bar at the top to bolt your inserts to - go as physically big as you can. Modify the machine to make room if need be. If this is one of those gidges you have mentioned in the past where you're using the carbide inserts as a hard-faced guillotine and anvil-blade to chop wire to length, don't count on the machine and mount rigidity to keep it aligned... I'd have a finger from the upper jaw extend below the lower jaw where they overlap, and a few roller bearings with a fine-threaded gap adjusting method. And a jam nut to keep it there. Physically keep the upper and lower blades from crashing, even if the machine gets out of alignment. -- Bruce -- |
#17
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4140 internal stresses
On 4/14/2013 9:43 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 00:43:43 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote: On 4/12/2013 10:17 PM, Ed Huntress wrote: On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 20:02:37 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote: On 4/12/2013 2:54 PM, Terry Coombs wrote: "Tom Gardner" Mars@Tacks wrote in message ... On 4/12/2013 8:13 AM, Terry Coombs wrote: "Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message ... "Terry Coombs" wrote in message ... I just got to wondering about internal stresses in 4140 round stock . I'm making a part for an oilless compressor , and have it roughed a bit oversize . I know that some steels and other metals develop internal stress from forming operations , and need a few hours to let the stresses equalize before finishing machining so the finished part doesn't distort . Got to wondering if 4140 is one of them . -- Snag It is generally accepted that all parts have stress, the result of the manufacturing procedure, as you alluded. Hot rolled materials tend to have much less. Good shop practice dictates that one roughs parts, leaving sufficient material for finish machining, with total cleanup. The less material remaining, the better, as the piece will more closely represent the finished object, and the small amount of material removed in the process should make very little difference in movement of the part. I expect that unless you have a very critical dimension, less than .0002" tolerance, you should be fine. Nice job. I spend a lot of my time trying to have folks understand that roughing is a very important part of machining. Some don't pay attention (until they have the pleasure of reviewing the resulting scrap, anyway). Time can be a factor, but the roughing should release much of the stress. If you have doubts, allow the part to age a day. Harold I backed off the chuck jaws a tad before I came in , rechucked it after a couple of hours . After recentering it I found about .002 runout on the last area I'd machined same setup . Looks like it might have had a bit of stress . I'll finish it up today . Speaking of which, would you have a piece of 4140 that is 6" x 2" x 3/4" or thereabouts that you could sell? Nope , all I have is rounds in 1.250 and 1.5" or maybe 1.75 , didn't measure it because the 1.25 was big enough here in . Now I have some unidentified bigger 2.375 and 3.125 IIRC rounds in Memphis that machine and harden like 4140 , but I really don't know for sure what they are . Thanks anyway. I need to make an arm that holds a carbide square like an arm on a pair of scissors. The current one is cold-roll and is flexing too muck under pressure. Ya' think 4140 would be a better choice? The flexing -- that is, the spring rate without taking a set -- is the same for all grades on steel, within a couple of percent. More correctly, they all have about the same Young's Modulus, and it doesn't matter how they're heat treated or work-hardened. The modulus will be the same. That is, except for stainless, which is a little springier (lower Young's Modulus). My cousin told me that, I was hoping he was wrong. I could make it out of Ti and/or go from 5/8" to 3/4" or a scooch more. Not titanium! It's MUCH springier than steel. The Young's modulus for steel runs around 30 (don't worry about the units). For titanium, it's around 16 -- about the same as gray cast iron (14) . Aluminum is around 10. Tungsten is a little over 60. Tungsten carbide is close to 70. On the other hand, stiffness is a function of the *cube* of thickness (called "plate stiffness"). So making your part a little thicker will improve its stiffness by a lot more than you might think. In your example of going from 5/8 to 3/4, the part would be 1.2 times thicker but 1.73 times stiffer. -- Ed Huntress That'll do. The part's 10 years old but the new wire it cuts is higher tensile. |
#18
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4140 internal stresses
On 4/14/2013 9:56 AM, Doug White wrote:
Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote in : snip The flexing -- that is, the spring rate without taking a set -- is the same for all grades on steel, within a couple of percent. More correctly, they all have about the same Young's Modulus, and it doesn't matter how they're heat treated or work-hardened. The modulus will be the same. That is, except for stainless, which is a little springier (lower Young's Modulus). My cousin told me that, I was hoping he was wrong. I could make it out of Ti and/or go from 5/8" to 3/4" or a scooch more. I'm a little rusty on this stuff, but for a simple rectangular bar, I believe the stiffness goes up as the cube of the dimension. You shouldn't have to add much to make it significantly stiffer. 5/8" to 3/4" would almost double the stiffness (halve the deflection). Adding a rib could do a lot, if there is room. Doug White Room for another 1/8", 5/8" to 3/4". Thanks! |
#19
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4140 internal stresses
On 4/14/2013 9:53 PM, Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable) wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 13:56:06 GMT, Doug White wrote: Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote in : snip The flexing -- that is, the spring rate without taking a set -- is the same for all grades on steel, within a couple of percent. More correctly, they all have about the same Young's Modulus, and it doesn't matter how they're heat treated or work-hardened. The modulus will be the same. That is, except for stainless, which is a little springier (lower Young's Modulus). My cousin told me that, I was hoping he was wrong. I could make it out of Ti and/or go from 5/8" to 3/4" or a scooch more. I'm a little rusty on this stuff, but for a simple rectangular bar, I believe the stiffness goes up as the cube of the dimension. You shouldn't have to add much to make it significantly stiffer. 5/8" to 3/4" would almost double the stiffness (halve the deflection). Adding a rib could do a lot, if there is room. A rib, or better yet use U-Channel so the face and stiffening ribs are all one integral piece, and a chunk of thick bar at the top to bolt your inserts to - go as physically big as you can. Modify the machine to make room if need be. If this is one of those gidges you have mentioned in the past where you're using the carbide inserts as a hard-faced guillotine and anvil-blade to chop wire to length, don't count on the machine and mount rigidity to keep it aligned... I'd have a finger from the upper jaw extend below the lower jaw where they overlap, and a few roller bearings with a fine-threaded gap adjusting method. And a jam nut to keep it there. Physically keep the upper and lower blades from crashing, even if the machine gets out of alignment. -- Bruce -- Yep, you must have seen it! The cutter uses a 1" shaft riding in Timkin tapered roller bearings that this arm is attached. I use 3/4" square x 1/4" thick, coated HSS inserts. I've tried every grade of carbide, even custom made they get tiny chips and and they all self destruct in very short order. The HSS works great and they are only $5 and I get 8 cutting edges on each. I think the arm sometimes gets too much pre-load pressure from the mechanism that tightens the stationary blade. It gets readjusted every time we do a blade change. |
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