35 lb tungsten "ballast" blocks (race cars): $1877

http://www.stockcarsteel.com/tungsten/

Twice as dense as steel & 50% more than lead, but what a price to pay
for the little space that it saves.

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:54:19 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

35 lb tungsten "ballast" blocks (race cars): $1877

http://www.stockcarsteel.com/tungsten/

Twice as dense as steel & 50% more than lead, but what a price to pay
for the little space that it saves.

We've got a block of tungsten that pretty much fills up the inside of
a little plastic Pelican case. It's funny watching people do a
double-take when they pick it up.

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:54:19 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

35 lb tungsten "ballast" blocks (race cars): $1877

http://www.stockcarsteel.com/tungsten/

Twice as dense as steel & 50% more than lead, but what a price to pay
for the little space that it saves.

It's probably about CG more than space (or volume).

I never saw tungsten blocks used for ballast when I was an SCCA/CART
tech inspector, back in the '80s. It usually was a plate of steel cut
to fit on the floor, somehow, with a torch.

--
Ed Huntress

Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:54:19 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

35 lb tungsten "ballast" blocks (race cars): $1877

http://www.stockcarsteel.com/tungsten/

Twice as dense as steel & 50% more than lead, but what a price to pay
for the little space that it saves.

We've got a block of tungsten that pretty much fills up the inside of
a little plastic Pelican case. It's funny watching people do a
double-take when they pick it up.

What's it for?

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 20:18:26 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:54:19 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

35 lb tungsten "ballast" blocks (race cars): $1877

http://www.stockcarsteel.com/tungsten/

Twice as dense as steel & 50% more than lead, but what a price to pay
for the little space that it saves.

We've got a block of tungsten that pretty much fills up the inside of
a little plastic Pelican case. It's funny watching people do a
double-take when they pick it up.

What's it for?

Testing a gravitational sensing instrument, so something close to a
point mass is useful.

Bob Engelhardt wrote:
35 lb tungsten "ballast" blocks (race cars): $1877

http://www.stockcarsteel.com/tungsten/

Twice as dense as steel & 50% more than lead, but what a price to pay
for the little space that it saves.

Allows you to play with weight distribution easier than larger chunks of lead/steel.

You build the car as close as you can to the weight distribution you want BUT you build it
light. Then you add weight to put the extra where it will do the most good for the type of
race and still come up to minimum weight with an empty tank.

--
Steve W.

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 16:27:12 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 20:18:26 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:54:19 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

35 lb tungsten "ballast" blocks (race cars): $1877

http://www.stockcarsteel.com/tungsten/

Twice as dense as steel & 50% more than lead, but what a price to pay
for the little space that it saves.

We've got a block of tungsten that pretty much fills up the inside of
a little plastic Pelican case. It's funny watching people do a
double-take when they pick it up.

What's it for?

Testing a gravitational sensing instrument, so something close to a
point mass is useful.

What..couldnt get a good deal on a micro blackhole? Check Edmonds
Scientific, I think they are running a special this week.

Grin

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:05:10 -0700, Gunner wrote:

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 16:27:12 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 20:18:26 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:54:19 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

35 lb tungsten "ballast" blocks (race cars): $1877

http://www.stockcarsteel.com/tungsten/

Twice as dense as steel & 50% more than lead, but what a price to pay
for the little space that it saves.

We've got a block of tungsten that pretty much fills up the inside of
a little plastic Pelican case. It's funny watching people do a
double-take when they pick it up.

What's it for?

Testing a gravitational sensing instrument, so something close to a
point mass is useful.

What..couldnt get a good deal on a micro blackhole? Check Edmonds
Scientific, I think they are running a special this week.

Those damned things evaporate too fast.

--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:54:19 -0400, Bob Engelhardt wrote:

35 lb tungsten "ballast" blocks (race cars): $1877

http://www.stockcarsteel.com/tungsten/

Twice as dense as steel & 50% more than lead, but what a price to pay
for the little space that it saves.

I used to work at an aerospace company that made extensive use of
tungsten weights in an assembly that had to be balanced just so, and was
a 5.000 pound bag with 4.999 pounds of s**t in it.

Sometimes they could use brass.

When the assembly costs enough, a few chunks of tungsten aren't that much
by comparison.

--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On 3/18/2013 7:10 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:05:10 -0700, Gunner wrote:

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 16:27:12 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 20:18:26 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

Spehro wrote:
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:54:19 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

35 lb tungsten "ballast" blocks (race cars): $1877

http://www.stockcarsteel.com/tungsten/

Twice as dense as steel& 50% more than lead, but what a price to pay
for the little space that it saves.

We've got a block of tungsten that pretty much fills up the inside of
a little plastic Pelican case. It's funny watching people do a
double-take when they pick it up.

What's it for?

Testing a gravitational sensing instrument, so something close to a
point mass is useful.

What..couldnt get a good deal on a micro blackhole? Check Edmonds
Scientific, I think they are running a special this week.

Those damned things evaporate too fast.

Besides, when you pull your hole shot, the ballast would stay where it
was when the car took off! Bummer if it was right in front of the
driver.

On 3/18/2013 5:05 PM, Gunner wrote:
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 16:27:12 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 20:18:26 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

Spehro wrote:
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:54:19 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

35 lb tungsten "ballast" blocks (race cars): $1877

http://www.stockcarsteel.com/tungsten/

Twice as dense as steel& 50% more than lead, but what a price to pay
for the little space that it saves.

We've got a block of tungsten that pretty much fills up the inside of
a little plastic Pelican case. It's funny watching people do a
double-take when they pick it up.

What's it for?

Testing a gravitational sensing instrument, so something close to a
point mass is useful.

What..couldnt get a good deal on a micro blackhole? Check Edmonds
Scientific, I think they are running a special this week.

Grin

Gunner


Some interesting new approaches to studying such phenomena -

http://www.economist.com/news/scienc...hing-how-build)

On Monday, March 18, 2013 3:18:26 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:54:19 -0400, Bob Engelhardt

wrote:



35 lb tungsten "ballast" blocks (race cars): $1877



http://www.stockcarsteel.com/tungsten/



Twice as dense as steel & 50% more than lead, but what a price to pay

for the little space that it saves.



We've got a block of tungsten that pretty much fills up the inside of

a little plastic Pelican case. It's funny watching people do a

double-take when they pick it up.



What's it for?

Gold plating tungsten will increase it's value VERY dramatically.
It has been a very popular thing to do lately.

In article ,
Tim Wescott wrote:

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:54:19 -0400, Bob Engelhardt wrote:

35 lb tungsten "ballast" blocks (race cars): $1877

http://www.stockcarsteel.com/tungsten/

Twice as dense as steel & 50% more than lead, but what a price to pay
for the little space that it saves.

I used to work at an aerospace company that made extensive use of
tungsten weights in an assembly that had to be balanced just so, and was
a 5.000 pound bag with 4.999 pounds of s**t in it.

Sometimes they could use brass.

When the assembly costs enough, a few chunks of tungsten aren't that much
by comparison.



They used to (and may still for all I know) use depleted uranium for
control surface balance weights on some large commercial & military
aircraft. IIRC, it's like 68+% heavier than lead. (Have also heard,
possibly here in this NG, that the military uses it for some projectiles
as well.)

I know that after a crash of an aircraft equipped with DU weights,
finding them is a big priority.

Erik

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 22:30:35 -0700, Erik wrote:

In article ,
Tim Wescott wrote:

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:54:19 -0400, Bob Engelhardt wrote:

35 lb tungsten "ballast" blocks (race cars): $1877

http://www.stockcarsteel.com/tungsten/

Twice as dense as steel & 50% more than lead, but what a price to pay
for the little space that it saves.

I used to work at an aerospace company that made extensive use of
tungsten weights in an assembly that had to be balanced just so, and
was a 5.000 pound bag with 4.999 pounds of s**t in it.

Sometimes they could use brass.

When the assembly costs enough, a few chunks of tungsten aren't that
much by comparison.



They used to (and may still for all I know) use depleted uranium for
control surface balance weights on some large commercial & military
aircraft. IIRC, it's like 68+% heavier than lead. (Have also heard,
possibly here in this NG, that the military uses it for some projectiles
as well.)

I know that after a crash of an aircraft equipped with DU weights,
finding them is a big priority.

I think depleted uranium is cheaper than tungsten -- at least if you're
the military. My understanding is that the stuff is chemically toxic,
but not that harmful as an emitter of radiation. It has to be easier to
machine.

They used depleted uranium slugs in the Phalanx anti-missile defense
system, but changed to tungsten due to environmental concerns.

I know that they used to use depleted uranium in anti-tank rounds both
for density and for the fact that it'll ignite in air if it's hot. The
slug was designed so that on impact it would penetrate the tank's armor
and squirt molten depleted uranium into the interior of the tank. If it
was in an oxygen atmosphere it would catch on fire and hopefully do even
more damage.

I don't know if they still use the stuff in anti-tank rounds -- perhaps
they have them in storage someplace, in case we get into a serious
shooting war with someone who actually has tanks.

--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On 3/19/2013 12:29 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:
....

... My understanding is that the stuff is chemically toxic,
but not that harmful as an emitter of radiation....

Ingested, it's a chemical hazard to the kidney but unless very high
levels it has not shown to be very strongly detrimental--studies of
long-term workers has shown no association w/ low-level DU exposure and
adverse health effects.

U is an alpha-emitter so it is trivial to shield an external source for
radiation--a sheet of paper or two is plenty. It is a hazard if inhaled
in a very fine insoluble form that could remain in lungs for indefinite
period. But again, studies haven't shown any excess prevalence of lung
cancer in workers in places like Fernald, etc.

--

dpb wrote:

On 3/19/2013 12:29 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:
...

... My understanding is that the stuff is chemically toxic,
but not that harmful as an emitter of radiation....

Ingested, it's a chemical hazard to the kidney but unless very high
levels it has not shown to be very strongly detrimental--studies of
long-term workers has shown no association w/ low-level DU exposure and
adverse health effects.

U is an alpha-emitter so it is trivial to shield an external source for
radiation--a sheet of paper or two is plenty. It is a hazard if inhaled
in a very fine insoluble form that could remain in lungs for indefinite
period. But again, studies haven't shown any excess prevalence of lung
cancer in workers in places like Fernald, etc.

DU has been used from time to time for sailboat keel weights. Denser, so
lower cross section and displacement and less resulting drag. But most
racing regs have ruled against its use.

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
I had a dog that would chase anyone riding a bicycle.
In the end I had to take his bicycle away.

Look at the atomic numbers - there is 72 for light bulbs and
9x, 1xx for the various depletion - meaning the half life is
reducing the radiation...

When you have 1/3 to 1/2 more hit in unit volume and the physical
bullet is limited in size. More/different powder makes them go.

If you recall, the tank killers used them and after the war,
the army went back over the battlefield with sensing equipment
and searched the sands and tanks/trucks for the spent rounds.

Martin


On 3/19/2013 12:29 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 22:30:35 -0700, Erik wrote:

In article ,
Tim Wescott wrote:

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:54:19 -0400, Bob Engelhardt wrote:

35 lb tungsten "ballast" blocks (race cars): $1877

http://www.stockcarsteel.com/tungsten/

Twice as dense as steel & 50% more than lead, but what a price to pay
for the little space that it saves.

I used to work at an aerospace company that made extensive use of
tungsten weights in an assembly that had to be balanced just so, and
was a 5.000 pound bag with 4.999 pounds of s**t in it.

Sometimes they could use brass.

When the assembly costs enough, a few chunks of tungsten aren't that
much by comparison.



They used to (and may still for all I know) use depleted uranium for
control surface balance weights on some large commercial & military
aircraft. IIRC, it's like 68+% heavier than lead. (Have also heard,
possibly here in this NG, that the military uses it for some projectiles
as well.)

I know that after a crash of an aircraft equipped with DU weights,
finding them is a big priority.

I think depleted uranium is cheaper than tungsten -- at least if you're
the military. My understanding is that the stuff is chemically toxic,
but not that harmful as an emitter of radiation. It has to be easier to
machine.

They used depleted uranium slugs in the Phalanx anti-missile defense
system, but changed to tungsten due to environmental concerns.

I know that they used to use depleted uranium in anti-tank rounds both
for density and for the fact that it'll ignite in air if it's hot. The
slug was designed so that on impact it would penetrate the tank's armor
and squirt molten depleted uranium into the interior of the tank. If it
was in an oxygen atmosphere it would catch on fire and hopefully do even
more damage.

I don't know if they still use the stuff in anti-tank rounds -- perhaps
they have them in storage someplace, in case we get into a serious
shooting war with someone who actually has tanks.

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." fired this volley in news:ru-
:

But most
racing regs have ruled against its use.


I wonder why... just because of the perceptions about it? It's not the
densest metal, so why the fuss?

LLoyd

On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 05:48:27 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." fired this volley in news:ru-
:

But most
racing regs have ruled against its use.


I wonder why... just because of the perceptions about it? It's not the
densest metal, so why the fuss?

It's For The Children, Lloyd.
DU is OHMIGODPOISONOUSRADIOACTIVEWE'REALLGONNADIE, don'tcha know?

--
In order to become the master, the politician poses as the servant.
--Charles de Gaulle

On 3/20/2013 12:02 AM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
Look at the atomic numbers - there is 72 for light bulbs and
9x, 1xx for the various depletion - meaning the half life is
reducing the radiation...
....

???

The half-life of 92U238 is ~4.5x10E9 _yrs_...(that's 4 billion w/ a B
years). One doesn't observe much change in specific radioactivity w/
time in a normal lifetime.

--

On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 08:31:27 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 3/20/2013 12:02 AM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
Look at the atomic numbers - there is 72 for light bulbs and
9x, 1xx for the various depletion - meaning the half life is
reducing the radiation...
...

???

The half-life of 92U238 is ~4.5x10E9 _yrs_...(that's 4 billion w/ a B
years). One doesn't observe much change in specific radioactivity w/
time in a normal lifetime.

Cost aside, I don't think it's very easy to get ahold of. I didn't try
very hard, but I didn't see much on offer in macroscopic sizes.

On 3/20/2013 8:49 AM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
....

Cost aside, I don't think it's very easy to get ahold of. I didn't try
very hard, but I didn't see much on offer in macroscopic sizes.

Ayup, it's not likely on the rack at the local ironmonger's, fer sure...

--

On 3/20/2013 8:31 AM, dpb wrote:
On 3/20/2013 12:02 AM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
Look at the atomic numbers - there is 72 for light bulbs and
9x, 1xx for the various depletion - meaning the half life is
reducing the radiation...
...

???

The half-life of 92U238 is ~4.5x10E9 _yrs_...(that's 4 billion w/ a B
years). One doesn't observe much change in specific radioactivity w/
time in a normal lifetime.

And, BTW, the depletion in depleted U is the deficiency of concentration
of U235 relative to that naturally occurring which is roughly 0.72% (or
iow, 99.28% U238). But, the half-life of U235 (also an alpha-emitter)
while shorter than that of U238 is still 700x10E8 yrs so the amount of
additional depletion owing to natural decay is infinitesimally small in
any observable time.

For example, in 100 yr, N(t)/N0 ~ 2^(-100/700E6) = 0.99999990 for U235.
Add another roughly another couple of nines or a little less for U238
since the half-life is ~10X longer (X (1/2)^ratio half-lives).

(Sorry, but the old NucE in me just has to escape every once't in a
while...I'll fade away now.. )

--

On 3/20/2013 9:41 AM, dpb wrote:
....

The half-life of 92U238 is ~4.5x10E9 _yrs_...(that's 4 billion w/ a B
years). One doesn't observe much change in specific radioactivity w/
time in a normal lifetime.

And, BTW, the depletion in depleted U is the deficiency of concentration
of U235 relative to that naturally occurring which is roughly 0.72% (or
iow, 99.28% U238). But, the half-life of U235 (also an alpha-emitter)
while shorter than that of U238 is still 700x10E8 yrs so the amount of
additional depletion owing to natural decay is infinitesimally small in
any observable time.

....typo -- 700x10E8 yrs is 700x10E6 or 7x10E8. Correct below...

For example, in 100 yr, N(t)/N0 ~ 2^(-100/700E6) = 0.99999990 for U235.
Add another roughly another couple of nines or a little less for U238
since the half-life is ~10X longer (X (1/2)^ratio half-lives).

--

On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 09:03:01 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 3/20/2013 8:49 AM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
...

Cost aside, I don't think it's very easy to get ahold of. I didn't try
very hard, but I didn't see much on offer in macroscopic sizes.

Ayup, it's not likely on the rack at the local ironmonger's, fer sure...

Oddly enough..it has turned up there, along with Cesium and other
Stuff.

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On 3/20/2013 12:02 PM, Gunner wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 09:03:01 -0500, wrote:

On 3/20/2013 8:49 AM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
...

Cost aside, I don't think it's very easy to get ahold of. I didn't try
very hard, but I didn't see much on offer in macroscopic sizes.

Ayup, it's not likely on the rack at the local ironmonger's, fer sure...

Oddly enough..it has turned up there, along with Cesium and other
Stuff.
....

Yeah, and (very hot) Co60 sources have turned up in kids' trousers
pockets on occasion, too, but it ain't terribly commonplace...

In US, ownership, production and use of DU are subject to state and
federal regulations per Title 10, Part 40, of the Code of Federal
Regulations (10CFR40).

In general, possession of more that 15 lbs. of DU requires a license
from the NRC or an Agreement State (a State which has it's own
equivalent of NRC oversight for commercial uses of nuclear material).

There are some specific exemptions for usage such as counterweights for
aircraft, missiles, large flywheels, etc., as well as for shielding for
things like spent fuel casks, x-ray and other radiation shielding
applications and the like with specific restrictions on how these items
are produced/labeled/controlled, etc., etc., etc., ...

That doesn't say that some don't necessarily follow all the rules on
disposal of some of these materials or that there aren't dealers who
have the necessary licenses in place to handle them. Again, just not
common.

--

Cross-Slide wrote:
On Monday, March 18, 2013 3:18:26 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:54:19 -0400, Bob Engelhardt

wrote:



35 lb tungsten "ballast" blocks (race cars): $1877



http://www.stockcarsteel.com/tungsten/



Twice as dense as steel & 50% more than lead, but what a price to pay

for the little space that it saves.



We've got a block of tungsten that pretty much fills up the inside of

a little plastic Pelican case. It's funny watching people do a

double-take when they pick it up.



What's it for?

Gold plating tungsten will increase it's value VERY dramatically.
It has been a very popular thing to do lately.

I've read about the gold bars filled with tungsten rods. That stuff must
come from russia.

On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 12:59:30 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 3/20/2013 12:02 PM, Gunner wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 09:03:01 -0500, wrote:

On 3/20/2013 8:49 AM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
...

Cost aside, I don't think it's very easy to get ahold of. I didn't try
very hard, but I didn't see much on offer in macroscopic sizes.

Ayup, it's not likely on the rack at the local ironmonger's, fer sure...

Oddly enough..it has turned up there, along with Cesium and other
Stuff.
...

Yeah, and (very hot) Co60 sources have turned up in kids' trousers
pockets on occasion, too, but it ain't terribly commonplace...

In US, ownership, production and use of DU are subject to state and
federal regulations per Title 10, Part 40, of the Code of Federal
Regulations (10CFR40).

In general, possession of more that 15 lbs. of DU requires a license
from the NRC or an Agreement State (a State which has it's own
equivalent of NRC oversight for commercial uses of nuclear material).

There are some specific exemptions for usage such as counterweights for
aircraft, missiles, large flywheels, etc., as well as for shielding for
things like spent fuel casks, x-ray and other radiation shielding
applications and the like with specific restrictions on how these items
are produced/labeled/controlled, etc., etc., etc., ...

That doesn't say that some don't necessarily follow all the rules on
disposal of some of these materials or that there aren't dealers who
have the necessary licenses in place to handle them. Again, just not
common.
I have looked, on occasion, for a couple pound chunk of DU, to use as
a conversation piece. Cast into some Lucite it would pose no radiation
hazard or contact dermatitis from handling. But I have not yet found
a source. Osmium would be an even better choice, as far as weight per
volume, but it is way too expensive.
Eric

On 3/20/2013 7:08 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 12:59:30 -0500, wrote:

On 3/20/2013 12:02 PM, Gunner wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 09:03:01 -0500, wrote:

On 3/20/2013 8:49 AM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
...

Cost aside, I don't think it's very easy to get ahold of. I didn't try
very hard, but I didn't see much on offer in macroscopic sizes.

Ayup, it's not likely on the rack at the local ironmonger's, fer sure...

Oddly enough..it has turned up there, along with Cesium and other
Stuff.
...

Yeah, and (very hot) Co60 sources have turned up in kids' trousers
pockets on occasion, too, but it ain't terribly commonplace...

In US, ownership, production and use of DU are subject to state and
federal regulations per Title 10, Part 40, of the Code of Federal
Regulations (10CFR40).

In general, possession of more that 15 lbs. of DU requires a license
from the NRC or an Agreement State (a State which has it's own
equivalent of NRC oversight for commercial uses of nuclear material).

There are some specific exemptions for usage such as counterweights for
aircraft, missiles, large flywheels, etc., as well as for shielding for
things like spent fuel casks, x-ray and other radiation shielding
applications and the like with specific restrictions on how these items
are produced/labeled/controlled, etc., etc., etc., ...

That doesn't say that some don't necessarily follow all the rules on
disposal of some of these materials or that there aren't dealers who
have the necessary licenses in place to handle them. Again, just not
common.
I have looked, on occasion, for a couple pound chunk of DU, to use as
a conversation piece. Cast into some Lucite it would pose no radiation
hazard or contact dermatitis from handling. But I have not yet found
a source. Osmium would be an even better choice, as far as weight per
volume, but it is way too expensive.
Eric

I don't know of anywhere otomh of any distributor -- at one time United
Nuclear had small samples 'cuz we got some for the lab from them but
that was 10 yr or more ago and when I last looked it wasn't available.

The only pathway I'm aware of is through the various commercial entities
that build spent fuel shipping casks and the other legitimate industrial
uses outlined above and those supplies come from DOE from the tailings
of the enrichment process. My background is commercial power w/ some
work at the Oak Ridge and other DOE facilities but all work for DOE
dealt all w/ enriched material there (mostly low-enriched rather than
weapons grade) so I'm not even positive of the supply line for the
military for DU.

For an individual it's pretty much unobtanium afaik even tho there isn't
any actual prohibition but nobody's going to mess with the nuisance
factor of keeping their license inventory accountability would be my
take on the likelihood of finding it in such small amounts for individual.

--

On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 19:00:36 +0000 (UTC), the renowned Cydrome Leader
wrote:

Cross-Slide wrote:
On Monday, March 18, 2013 3:18:26 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:54:19 -0400, Bob Engelhardt

wrote:



35 lb tungsten "ballast" blocks (race cars): $1877



http://www.stockcarsteel.com/tungsten/



Twice as dense as steel & 50% more than lead, but what a price to pay

for the little space that it saves.



We've got a block of tungsten that pretty much fills up the inside of

a little plastic Pelican case. It's funny watching people do a

double-take when they pick it up.



What's it for?

Gold plating tungsten will increase it's value VERY dramatically.
It has been a very popular thing to do lately.

I've read about the gold bars filled with tungsten rods. That stuff must
come from russia.


Or maybe Langley.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 17:08:35 -0700, wrote:

On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 12:59:30 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 3/20/2013 12:02 PM, Gunner wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 09:03:01 -0500, wrote:

On 3/20/2013 8:49 AM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
...

Cost aside, I don't think it's very easy to get ahold of. I didn't try
very hard, but I didn't see much on offer in macroscopic sizes.

Ayup, it's not likely on the rack at the local ironmonger's, fer sure...

Oddly enough..it has turned up there, along with Cesium and other
Stuff.
...

Yeah, and (very hot) Co60 sources have turned up in kids' trousers
pockets on occasion, too, but it ain't terribly commonplace...

In US, ownership, production and use of DU are subject to state and
federal regulations per Title 10, Part 40, of the Code of Federal
Regulations (10CFR40).

In general, possession of more that 15 lbs. of DU requires a license
from the NRC or an Agreement State (a State which has it's own
equivalent of NRC oversight for commercial uses of nuclear material).

There are some specific exemptions for usage such as counterweights for
aircraft, missiles, large flywheels, etc., as well as for shielding for
things like spent fuel casks, x-ray and other radiation shielding
applications and the like with specific restrictions on how these items
are produced/labeled/controlled, etc., etc., etc., ...

That doesn't say that some don't necessarily follow all the rules on
disposal of some of these materials or that there aren't dealers who
have the necessary licenses in place to handle them. Again, just not
common.
I have looked, on occasion, for a couple pound chunk of DU, to use as
a conversation piece. Cast into some Lucite it would pose no radiation
hazard or contact dermatitis from handling. But I have not yet found
a source. Osmium would be an even better choice, as far as weight per
volume, but it is way too expensive.

I want a working Slammer's main battle tank for the front yard, all
that iridium shining in the sunlight, blinding potential perps and
intruders, making them ready for a powergun's gentle plasma nudge...
It's prettier than your osmium. You guys can have your DU.

--
In order to become the master, the politician poses as the servant.
--Charles de Gaulle

There was a case a number of years ago that had a scrap metal
company in Mexico was buying junk metal from LA.

A Dentist had gone out of business - might have died or sold out ...
and the machine was to be taken out and scrapped in a local yard
that could handle the Co60 source. The Mexican scrapper noted
the load was really heavy and thought of Big Bucks... and packed
it into his car or truck. The source was a load of round ball bearings
like material. Short story version - contaminated the local yard,
then dropping some of these along the highway through a hole that
allowed bearings to drop out - leading the HAZ team to trace.

It got to Mexico, a kid got some neat looking metal and off he went.

The family, local scrapyard guys and the driver all got over exposed.

Nasty case of scrapping.

Martin

On 3/20/2013 12:59 PM, dpb wrote:
On 3/20/2013 12:02 PM, Gunner wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 09:03:01 -0500, wrote:

On 3/20/2013 8:49 AM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
...

Cost aside, I don't think it's very easy to get ahold of. I didn't try
very hard, but I didn't see much on offer in macroscopic sizes.

Ayup, it's not likely on the rack at the local ironmonger's, fer sure...

Oddly enough..it has turned up there, along with Cesium and other
Stuff.
...

Yeah, and (very hot) Co60 sources have turned up in kids' trousers
pockets on occasion, too, but it ain't terribly commonplace...

In US, ownership, production and use of DU are subject to state and
federal regulations per Title 10, Part 40, of the Code of Federal
Regulations (10CFR40).

In general, possession of more that 15 lbs. of DU requires a license
from the NRC or an Agreement State (a State which has it's own
equivalent of NRC oversight for commercial uses of nuclear material).

There are some specific exemptions for usage such as counterweights for
aircraft, missiles, large flywheels, etc., as well as for shielding for
things like spent fuel casks, x-ray and other radiation shielding
applications and the like with specific restrictions on how these items
are produced/labeled/controlled, etc., etc., etc., ...

That doesn't say that some don't necessarily follow all the rules on
disposal of some of these materials or that there aren't dealers who
have the necessary licenses in place to handle them. Again, just not
common.

--

On 3/20/2013 11:26 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
There was a case a number of years ago that had a scrap metal
company in Mexico was buying junk metal from LA.

A Dentist had gone out of business - might have died or sold out ...
and the machine was to be taken out and scrapped in a local yard
that could handle the Co60 source. ...

It got to Mexico, a kid got some neat looking metal and off he went.
....

That actually was the case that prompted my earlier comments. There
have been a few others w/ medical sources. There were even loads of
DU-contaminated material from the old gaseous diffusion process
buildings being scrapped at Oak Ridge that made it off the DOE
reservation prior to being declared clean by mistake. They, of course,
were of much less serious a nature as to actual hazard but rather
embarrassing to DOE and the operating contractor for the foulup...

--

On 3/18/2013 12:54 PM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
35 lb tungsten "ballast" blocks (race cars): $1877

http://www.stockcarsteel.com/tungsten/

Twice as dense as steel & 50% more than lead, but what a price to pay
for the little space that it saves.
isn't uranium even better? nukes should pay you to haul it away.

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:29:07 -0700, mike wrote:

On 3/18/2013 12:54 PM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
35 lb tungsten "ballast" blocks (race cars): $1877

http://www.stockcarsteel.com/tungsten/

Twice as dense as steel & 50% more than lead, but what a price to pay
for the little space that it saves.
isn't uranium even better? nukes should pay you to haul it away.

No, tungsten is about 3% denser than uranium, and among materials
with similar density, is one of the cheapest and most available.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density#Various_materials :
(Numbers are kg per cubic meter)

Silicon 2,330
Aluminium 2,700
Titanium 4,540
Selenium 4,800
Vanadium 6,100
Antimony 6,690
Zinc 7,000
Chromium 7,200
Manganese 7,325
Tin 7,310
Iron 7,870
Niobium 8,570
Cadmium 8,650
Cobalt 8,900
Nickel 8,900
Copper 8,940
Bismuth 9,750
Molybdenum 10,220
Silver 10,500
Lead 11,340
Thorium 11,700
Rhodium 12,410
Mercury 13,546
Tantalum 16,600
Uranium 18,800
Tungsten 19,300
Gold 19,320
Plutonium 19,840
Platinum 21,450
Iridium 22,420
Osmium 22,570

--
jiw

On 2013-03-21, Larry Jaques wrote:

[ ... ]

I want a working Slammer's main battle tank for the front yard, all
that iridium shining in the sunlight, blinding potential perps and
intruders, making them ready for a powergun's gentle plasma nudge...
It's prettier than your osmium. You guys can have your DU.

How about a Stroll Munitions PlasGun such as Schlock uses? :-)

That would make an impression -- even just the "Ominous Hummm"
when you turn it on, before you even pull the trigger. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 22 Mar 2013 02:06:35 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2013-03-21, Larry Jaques wrote:

[ ... ]

I want a working Slammer's main battle tank for the front yard, all
that iridium shining in the sunlight, blinding potential perps and
intruders, making them ready for a powergun's gentle plasma nudge...
It's prettier than your osmium. You guys can have your DU.

How about a Stroll Munitions PlasGun such as Schlock uses? :-)

That would make an impression -- even just the "Ominous Hummm"
when you turn it on, before you even pull the trigger. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

They have been on backorder for about 7 months. Something about bad
transtemporal connections with the flux capacitor and illegal
immigrant labor..or was that Scabs from Leonidius IV...Ill have to
double check..

Ill let yall know when mine comes in.

Gunner

On 22 Mar 2013 02:06:35 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2013-03-21, Larry Jaques wrote:

[ ... ]

I want a working Slammer's main battle tank for the front yard, all
that iridium shining in the sunlight, blinding potential perps and
intruders, making them ready for a powergun's gentle plasma nudge...
It's prettier than your osmium. You guys can have your DU.

How about a Stroll Munitions PlasGun such as Schlock uses? :-)

That would make an impression -- even just the "Ominous Hummm"
when you turn it on, before you even pull the trigger. :-)

They're OK, for a ****weapon, but I prefer the tank-mounted tribarrel
powergun, myself.

--
In order to become the master, the politician poses as the servant.
--Charles de Gaulle

Gunner on Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:05:10 -0700 typed
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 16:27:12 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 20:18:26 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:54:19 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

35 lb tungsten "ballast" blocks (race cars): $1877

http://www.stockcarsteel.com/tungsten/

Twice as dense as steel & 50% more than lead, but what a price to pay
for the little space that it saves.

We've got a block of tungsten that pretty much fills up the inside of
a little plastic Pelican case. It's funny watching people do a
double-take when they pick it up.

What's it for?

Testing a gravitational sensing instrument, so something close to a
point mass is useful.

What..couldnt get a good deal on a micro blackhole? Check Edmonds
Scientific, I think they are running a special this week.

Grin

Check Harbour Fright
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 15:01:36 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Gunner on Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:05:10 -0700 typed
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 16:27:12 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 20:18:26 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:54:19 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

35 lb tungsten "ballast" blocks (race cars): $1877

http://www.stockcarsteel.com/tungsten/

Twice as dense as steel & 50% more than lead, but what a price to pay
for the little space that it saves.

We've got a block of tungsten that pretty much fills up the inside of
a little plastic Pelican case. It's funny watching people do a
double-take when they pick it up.

What's it for?

Testing a gravitational sensing instrument, so something close to a
point mass is useful.

What..couldnt get a good deal on a micro blackhole? Check Edmonds
Scientific, I think they are running a special this week.

Grin

Check Harbour Fright

Good luck with that, given their quality control. The first ten pages
of their micro black hole manual is filled with these:

CAUTION: SIZE OF BLACK HOLE MAY VARY FROM DIAGRAMS.

CAUTION: STRENGTH OF BLACK HOLE MAY VARY FROM LISTED STRENGTH.

CAUTION: DENSITY OF BLACK HOLE MAY VARY FROM SPECIFICATIONS.

CAUTION: COLOR OF BLACK HOLE MAY VARY.

CAUTION: DO NOT USE BLACK HOLE DURING STORMS.

CAUTION: DO NOT USE BLACK HOLE NEAR ELECTRICAL POWER LINES.

CAUTION: BLACK HOLE NOT FOR USE BY CHILD UNDER THE AGE OF 18.

CAUTION: BLACK HOLE NOT MADE IN CHINA.

CAUTION: BLACK HOLE MAY BE IMPERIAL, METRIC, OR WHITWORTH.

CAUTION: DO NOT USE BLACK HOLE FROM TOP OF LADDER.

CAUTION: DO NOT USE BLACK HOLE INDOORS.

et cetera...

--
In order to become the master, the politician poses as the servant.
--Charles de Gaulle