did i kill my 'puter
i had a CMOS checksum error on my CNC mill. So, I installed a new
motherboard battery. Now the CPU fan just comes on and it makes no attempt to boot. Is the computer DOA? I checked connections and wiggled stuff. Karl |
did i kill my 'puter
Karl Townsend wrote: i had a CMOS checksum error on my CNC mill. So, I installed a new motherboard battery. Now the CPU fan just comes on and it makes no attempt to boot. Is the computer DOA? I checked connections and wiggled stuff. Remove the new battery & short out the socket for a few seconds, then reinstall the battery. You may have some corrupt data in the CMOS scratchpad RAM. |
did i kill my 'puter
On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:53:26 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: i had a CMOS checksum error on my CNC mill. So, I installed a new motherboard battery. Now the CPU fan just comes on and it makes no attempt to boot. Is the computer DOA? I checked connections and wiggled stuff. Remove the new battery & short out the socket for a few seconds, then reinstall the battery. You may have some corrupt data in the CMOS scratchpad RAM. tryed that, No Joy Karl |
did i kill my 'puter
Karl Townsend wrote: On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:53:26 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: i had a CMOS checksum error on my CNC mill. So, I installed a new motherboard battery. Now the CPU fan just comes on and it makes no attempt to boot. Is the computer DOA? I checked connections and wiggled stuff. Remove the new battery & short out the socket for a few seconds, then reinstall the battery. You may have some corrupt data in the CMOS scratchpad RAM. tryed that, No Joy Try another power supply, if you have one. You may have a dying or dead motherboard. Unplug all the drives, and cards except the video card, if it isn't part of the motherboard. If you can't get the bios screen to flash, look at the electrolytics on the motherboard, and the ones near the processor in particular. If they are bulging, they need replaced, or replace the motherboard. They are a special low ESR 105° C type capacitor, and not always easy to replace, because they are soldered to internal layers. If you can find the exact same type motherboard, and move the processor to the replacement board you shouldn't have to reinstall any software. |
did i kill my 'puter
On Nov 16, 4:18*pm, Karl Townsend
wrote: i had a CMOS checksum error on my CNC mill. So, I installed a new motherboard battery. Now the CPU fan just comes on and it makes no attempt to boot. Is the computer DOA? I checked connections and wiggled stuff. Karl Maybe re-seating the memory will work. I have had to replace memory sticks , too. |
did i kill my 'puter
On 11/16/2012 3:59 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Karl Townsend wrote: On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:53:26 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: i had a CMOS checksum error on my CNC mill. So, I installed a new motherboard battery. Now the CPU fan just comes on and it makes no attempt to boot. Is the computer DOA? I checked connections and wiggled stuff. Remove the new battery& short out the socket for a few seconds, then reinstall the battery. You may have some corrupt data in the CMOS scratchpad RAM. tryed that, No Joy Try another power supply, if you have one. You may have a dying or dead motherboard. Unplug all the drives, and cards except the video card, if it isn't part of the motherboard. If you can't get the bios screen to flash, look at the electrolytics on the motherboard, and the ones near the processor in particular. If they are bulging, they need replaced, or replace the motherboard. They are a special low ESR 105° C type capacitor, and not always easy to replace, because they are soldered to internal layers. If you can find the exact same type motherboard, and move the processor to the replacement board you shouldn't have to reinstall any software. How did you determine that the unspecified cnc mill with the unspecified controller running an unspecified OS with an unspecified user interface made no *attempt* to boot? If it's an IBM-PC compatible controller with a keyboard and display and you don't get any beeps and you see nothing on the display and entering the BIOS setup pre-boot keystrokes at the proper time don't do anything, yep, you've probably borked it. If it's the typical coin-cell non-rechargeable CMOS battery, there's a diode in series and shorting the socket does nothing. You have to WAIT, I'd give it an hour before you give up and replace the motherboard. There may be a jumper to reset the cmos, but it may only open the circuit and also require you to wait. Shouldn't take an hour, but what do you have to lose by waiting longer. Also, did you unplug the computer while you waited? Many computers have a 5V supply that's hot when the power is off and may prevent the CMOS from resetting. It's also possible that there's enough power coming back thru an I/O port to keep the CMOS alive. I had a situation where there was enough juice coming back through a GPIB port to keep the GPIB fully functional with the power to the microcontroller removed. I unplugged it and it just kept on running. Thought I'd been possessed... |
did i kill my 'puter
On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 18:59:56 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:53:26 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: i had a CMOS checksum error on my CNC mill. So, I installed a new motherboard battery. Now the CPU fan just comes on and it makes no attempt to boot. Is the computer DOA? I checked connections and wiggled stuff. Remove the new battery & short out the socket for a few seconds, then reinstall the battery. You may have some corrupt data in the CMOS scratchpad RAM. tryed that, No Joy Try another power supply, if you have one. You may have a dying or dead motherboard. Unplug all the drives, and cards except the video card, if it isn't part of the motherboard. If you can't get the bios screen to flash, look at the electrolytics on the motherboard, and the ones near the processor in particular. If they are bulging, they need replaced, or replace the motherboard. They are a special low ESR 105° C type capacitor, and not always easy to replace, because they are soldered to internal layers. If you can find the exact same type motherboard, and move the processor to the replacement board you shouldn't have to reinstall any software. This is a P4 motherboard with an ISA slot for my Galil card. Rare and expensive to replace. I happen to be in Ocala Tuesday. Are you interested in looking at it? Karl |
did i kill my 'puter
Karl Townsend wrote: On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 18:59:56 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:53:26 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: i had a CMOS checksum error on my CNC mill. So, I installed a new motherboard battery. Now the CPU fan just comes on and it makes no attempt to boot. Is the computer DOA? I checked connections and wiggled stuff. Remove the new battery & short out the socket for a few seconds, then reinstall the battery. You may have some corrupt data in the CMOS scratchpad RAM. tryed that, No Joy Try another power supply, if you have one. You may have a dying or dead motherboard. Unplug all the drives, and cards except the video card, if it isn't part of the motherboard. If you can't get the bios screen to flash, look at the electrolytics on the motherboard, and the ones near the processor in particular. If they are bulging, they need replaced, or replace the motherboard. They are a special low ESR 105° C type capacitor, and not always easy to replace, because they are soldered to internal layers. If you can find the exact same type motherboard, and move the processor to the replacement board you shouldn't have to reinstall any software. This is a P4 motherboard with an ISA slot for my Galil card. Rare and expensive to replace. I happen to be in Ocala Tuesday. Are you interested in looking at it? I just learned that a severly disabled freind of mine died last night & I'm just not up to it tonight. I only slept a little over three hours last night, and I'm not able to concentrate on anything right now. I was just getting ready to post a message that I would be off the group for a few days to a week, to see if I can help her family. My email is good, so you can contact me off group. I should be in better shape by Tuesday and more than happy to take a look at it. I may even have a spare motherboard that would support the card. Email me and give me the details, I probably won't be back on the group before Monday or Tuesday. To everyone else, this is the second disabled freind who has died in the last couple months. I wasn't able to do anything to help the first, because they can't locate a next of kin. She had a sister, but wouldn't talk about her or even tell where her sister lived. In this case, her yuongest son is disabled and she was all he had. |
did i kill my 'puter
On 11/16/2012 8:14 PM, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 18:59:56 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:53:26 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: i had a CMOS checksum error on my CNC mill. So, I installed a new motherboard battery. Now the CPU fan just comes on and it makes no attempt to boot. Is the computer DOA? I checked connections and wiggled stuff. Remove the new battery & short out the socket for a few seconds, then reinstall the battery. You may have some corrupt data in the CMOS scratchpad RAM. tryed that, No Joy Try another power supply, if you have one. You may have a dying or dead motherboard. Unplug all the drives, and cards except the video card, if it isn't part of the motherboard. If you can't get the bios screen to flash, look at the electrolytics on the motherboard, and the ones near the processor in particular. If they are bulging, they need replaced, or replace the motherboard. They are a special low ESR 105° C type capacitor, and not always easy to replace, because they are soldered to internal layers. If you can find the exact same type motherboard, and move the processor to the replacement board you shouldn't have to reinstall any software. This is a P4 motherboard with an ISA slot for my Galil card. Rare and expensive to replace. I happen to be in Ocala Tuesday. Are you interested in looking at it? Karl Anybody with more than one computer should get a power supply tester. They are just not expensive at $23. Its the first thing I do on a problem box and often the only thing I need to do. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16899705003 |
did i kill my 'puter
In article ,
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:53:26 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: i had a CMOS checksum error on my CNC mill. So, I installed a new motherboard battery. Now the CPU fan just comes on and it makes no attempt to boot. Is the computer DOA? I checked connections and wiggled stuff. Remove the new battery & short out the socket for a few seconds, then reinstall the battery. You may have some corrupt data in the CMOS scratchpad RAM. tryed that, No Joy Try another power supply, if you have one. You may have a dying or dead motherboard. Unplug all the drives, and cards except the video card, if it isn't part of the motherboard. If you can't get the bios screen to flash, look at the electrolytics on the motherboard, and the ones near the processor in particular. If they are bulging, they need replaced, or replace the motherboard. They are a special low ESR 105° C type capacitor, and not always easy to replace, because they are soldered to internal layers. If you can find the exact same type motherboard, and move the processor to the replacement board you shouldn't have to reinstall any software. A good article on bad (bulging) electrolytic capacitors, causes, and good photos can be had he http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague Looks like one major cause of many failed units started roughly around the early 2000's, and traces back to a botched industrial espionage episode. Details are in the the above article. Erik |
did i kill my 'puter
I have restored function to computers by unplugging them from electricity and unplugging and re plugging every connector in the computer. Doing the unplug/re plug routine gives all the connectors a new fresh connection. Corroded memory board contacts will keep the computer from booting. |
did i kill my 'puter
"Michael A. Terrell" on Fri, 16 Nov 2012
20:29:11 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: Karl Townsend wrote: On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 18:59:56 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:53:26 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: i had a CMOS checksum error on my CNC mill. So, I installed a new motherboard battery. Now the CPU fan just comes on and it makes no attempt to boot. Is the computer DOA? I checked connections and wiggled stuff. Remove the new battery & short out the socket for a few seconds, then reinstall the battery. You may have some corrupt data in the CMOS scratchpad RAM. tryed that, No Joy Try another power supply, if you have one. You may have a dying or dead motherboard. Unplug all the drives, and cards except the video card, if it isn't part of the motherboard. If you can't get the bios screen to flash, look at the electrolytics on the motherboard, and the ones near the processor in particular. If they are bulging, they need replaced, or replace the motherboard. They are a special low ESR 105° C type capacitor, and not always easy to replace, because they are soldered to internal layers. If you can find the exact same type motherboard, and move the processor to the replacement board you shouldn't have to reinstall any software. This is a P4 motherboard with an ISA slot for my Galil card. Rare and expensive to replace. I happen to be in Ocala Tuesday. Are you interested in looking at it? I just learned that a severly disabled freind of mine died last night & I'm just not up to it tonight. I only slept a little over three hours last night, and I'm not able to concentrate on anything right now. I was just getting ready to post a message that I would be off the group for a few days to a week, to see if I can help her family. My email is good, so you can contact me off group. I should be in better shape by Tuesday and more than happy to take a look at it. I may even have a spare motherboard that would support the card. Email me and give me the details, I probably won't be back on the group before Monday or Tuesday. To everyone else, this is the second disabled freind who has died in the last couple months. I wasn't able to do anything to help the first, because they can't locate a next of kin. She had a sister, but wouldn't talk about her or even tell where her sister lived. In this case, her yuongest son is disabled and she was all he had. Memory Eternal. My prayers go up for you. -- pyotr Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers does it take to change a lightbulb. |
did i kill my 'puter
On 2012-11-16, Karl Townsend wrote:
i had a CMOS checksum error on my CNC mill. So, I installed a new motherboard battery. Now the CPU fan just comes on and it makes no attempt to boot. Is the computer DOA? I checked connections and wiggled stuff. You may need to reset the CMOS. Pull the new battery, and short the pins of the holder for a few seconds, then re-install the battery. You will probably have to reset all the options after this, of course. Good Luck, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
did i kill my 'puter
I had a similar problem. Can you get to the boot menu? I found that the order of devices used to load the operating system had changed and it was trying to load from the floppy drive instead of the hard drive.
Dan |
did i kill my 'puter
|
did i kill my 'puter
On 17 Nov 2012 05:22:24 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote: On 2012-11-16, Karl Townsend wrote: i had a CMOS checksum error on my CNC mill. So, I installed a new motherboard battery. Now the CPU fan just comes on and it makes no attempt to boot. Is the computer DOA? I checked connections and wiggled stuff. You may need to reset the CMOS. Pull the new battery, and short the pins of the holder for a few seconds, then re-install the battery. You will probably have to reset all the options after this, of course. Good Luck, DoN. JOY, This was it but shorting it didn't work. leaving the battery out all night did. Karl |
did i kill my 'puter
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 10:00:24 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote: wrote: I have restored function to computers by unplugging them from electricity and unplugging and re plugging every connector in the computer. Doing the unplug/re plug routine gives all the connectors a new fresh connection. Corroded memory board contacts will keep the computer from booting. ^ This. Whenever strange issues start to crop up with a machine that's fairly old, powering it down and unplugging/replugging every connector a few times wipes oxide buildup off the contacts and usually solves the problem. That was particularly true back in the days of the "model T" computers - where all of the ICs were socketed - and only the best used high quality screw machine? sockets. Every memory bit was a separate chup - with tinned legs. On today's computers, with gold plated instead of tinned connections, it is EXTREMELY rare. I'd say, in order of likelihood- bad power supply (average ATX P/S up to about 5 years ago only lasted 2 - 3 years) Bad caps on the motherboard, or bad motherboard. What model board is it???? ASUS, A-Open, etc and actual model designation??? |
did i kill my 'puter
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 09:06:34 -0600, Karl Townsend
wrote: On 17 Nov 2012 05:22:24 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2012-11-16, Karl Townsend wrote: i had a CMOS checksum error on my CNC mill. So, I installed a new motherboard battery. Now the CPU fan just comes on and it makes no attempt to boot. Is the computer DOA? I checked connections and wiggled stuff. You may need to reset the CMOS. Pull the new battery, and short the pins of the holder for a few seconds, then re-install the battery. You will probably have to reset all the options after this, of course. Good Luck, DoN. JOY, This was it but shorting it didn't work. leaving the battery out all night did. Karl Lucky!!!. Back when the RTC was a separate chip we would remove the battery and put a peice of tinfoil over the clock chip to short out all the pins. The clock chip contained the C-MOS in most of those older machines . |
did i kill my 'puter
On 2012-11-17, Karl Townsend wrote:
On 17 Nov 2012 05:22:24 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2012-11-16, Karl Townsend wrote: i had a CMOS checksum error on my CNC mill. So, I installed a new motherboard battery. Now the CPU fan just comes on and it makes no attempt to boot. Is the computer DOA? I checked connections and wiggled stuff. You may need to reset the CMOS. Pull the new battery, and short the pins of the holder for a few seconds, then re-install the battery. You will probably have to reset all the options after this, of course. Good Luck, DoN. JOY, This was it but shorting it didn't work. leaving the battery out all night did. Glad it worked. I had forgotten about the likelyhood of a diode in the battery circuit, but it makes sense. (Now, if you could identify the actual chip with the CMOS memory in it, and which pins were power and ground on the chip, shorting across there would have been quicker. But you have it done, so no worry. Good Luck, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
did i kill my 'puter
On 17 Nov 2012 21:17:07 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote: On 2012-11-17, wrote: On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 09:06:34 -0600, Karl Townsend wrote: On 17 Nov 2012 05:22:24 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote: [ ... ] You may need to reset the CMOS. Pull the new battery, and short the pins of the holder for a few seconds, then re-install the battery. You will probably have to reset all the options after this, of course. Good Luck, DoN. JOY, This was it but shorting it didn't work. leaving the battery out all night did. [ ... ] Back when the RTC was a separate chip we would remove the battery and put a peice of tinfoil over the clock chip to short out all the pins. The clock chip contained the C-MOS in most of those older machines . Easier than in the older Sun workstations, which used a chip by Toshiba which had the clock, the CMOS RAM, a crystal, *and* a coin cell potted in a single package. No way to short out the battery from outside. *And* -- it contained the host-id and the ethernet MAC address inside it, with no easy way to reset those. (There was an around-the-corner way, but it was not easy.) And if you had any licensed software, the host-id was very important. If you did not have it recorded, you had to go to Sun for a replacement, with the barcode from the label on the chip. Those "integrated" CMOS devices were used on quite a few motherboards back in the 386/486 era. Cannot remember the manufacturere - but when the internal battery died you were cooked. I believe it was Dallas Semi. Some could be taken apart and a new battery soldered in. Sometimes you could cut the top off and solder wires to the 2 up-bent pins and connect a standard c-mos battery, and some guys just replaced the dallas with generic RTC chip -and an external battery. Pain in the ARSE, for sure. If you left your computer on 24/7 you would get a really long life from the built-in battery. If you stored it powered off, you would be lucky to get five years out of it. And -- there were (are) instructions on the web on how to dig into the potting and wire an external coin cell to replace the now dead one inside it. :-) Most I saw were not even potted - just built into a glued or welded plastic box. Enjoy, DoN. |
did i kill my 'puter
On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:53:26 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: i had a CMOS checksum error on my CNC mill. So, I installed a new motherboard battery. Now the CPU fan just comes on and it makes no attempt to boot. Is the computer DOA? I checked connections and wiggled stuff. Remove the new battery & short out the socket for a few seconds, then reinstall the battery. You may have some corrupt data in the CMOS scratchpad RAM. There is usually a Bio "clear" pair of terminals that if shorted, will wipe the bios settings and bring it back to factory default. Ive never heard of shorting the socket working. Much for me to learn! Gunner The methodology of the left has always been: 1. Lie 2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible 3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible 4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie 5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw 6. Then everyone must conform to the lie |
did i kill my 'puter
On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 20:29:11 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 18:59:56 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:53:26 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: i had a CMOS checksum error on my CNC mill. So, I installed a new motherboard battery. Now the CPU fan just comes on and it makes no attempt to boot. Is the computer DOA? I checked connections and wiggled stuff. Remove the new battery & short out the socket for a few seconds, then reinstall the battery. You may have some corrupt data in the CMOS scratchpad RAM. tryed that, No Joy Try another power supply, if you have one. You may have a dying or dead motherboard. Unplug all the drives, and cards except the video card, if it isn't part of the motherboard. If you can't get the bios screen to flash, look at the electrolytics on the motherboard, and the ones near the processor in particular. If they are bulging, they need replaced, or replace the motherboard. They are a special low ESR 105° C type capacitor, and not always easy to replace, because they are soldered to internal layers. If you can find the exact same type motherboard, and move the processor to the replacement board you shouldn't have to reinstall any software. This is a P4 motherboard with an ISA slot for my Galil card. Rare and expensive to replace. I happen to be in Ocala Tuesday. Are you interested in looking at it? I just learned that a severly disabled freind of mine died last night & I'm just not up to it tonight. I only slept a little over three hours last night, and I'm not able to concentrate on anything right now. I was just getting ready to post a message that I would be off the group for a few days to a week, to see if I can help her family. My email is good, so you can contact me off group. I should be in better shape by Tuesday and more than happy to take a look at it. I may even have a spare motherboard that would support the card. Email me and give me the details, I probably won't be back on the group before Monday or Tuesday. To everyone else, this is the second disabled freind who has died in the last couple months. I wasn't able to do anything to help the first, because they can't locate a next of kin. She had a sister, but wouldn't talk about her or even tell where her sister lived. In this case, her yuongest son is disabled and she was all he had. Hang tough, and do what you can. We will be waiting for your return. Gunner The methodology of the left has always been: 1. Lie 2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible 3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible 4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie 5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw 6. Then everyone must conform to the lie |
did i kill my 'puter
On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 21:08:33 -0500, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:
On 11/16/2012 8:14 PM, Karl Townsend wrote: On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 18:59:56 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:53:26 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: i had a CMOS checksum error on my CNC mill. So, I installed a new motherboard battery. Now the CPU fan just comes on and it makes no attempt to boot. Is the computer DOA? I checked connections and wiggled stuff. Remove the new battery & short out the socket for a few seconds, then reinstall the battery. You may have some corrupt data in the CMOS scratchpad RAM. tryed that, No Joy Try another power supply, if you have one. You may have a dying or dead motherboard. Unplug all the drives, and cards except the video card, if it isn't part of the motherboard. If you can't get the bios screen to flash, look at the electrolytics on the motherboard, and the ones near the processor in particular. If they are bulging, they need replaced, or replace the motherboard. They are a special low ESR 105° C type capacitor, and not always easy to replace, because they are soldered to internal layers. If you can find the exact same type motherboard, and move the processor to the replacement board you shouldn't have to reinstall any software. This is a P4 motherboard with an ISA slot for my Galil card. Rare and expensive to replace. I happen to be in Ocala Tuesday. Are you interested in looking at it? Karl Anybody with more than one computer should get a power supply tester. They are just not expensive at $23. Its the first thing I do on a problem box and often the only thing I need to do. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16899705003 Too bad the PC based machine tools I work on..use an XT power supply. Bummer Gunner The methodology of the left has always been: 1. Lie 2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible 3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible 4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie 5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw 6. Then everyone must conform to the lie |
did i kill my 'puter
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 16:13:43 -0800, Gunner
wrote: On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 21:08:33 -0500, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote: On 11/16/2012 8:14 PM, Karl Townsend wrote: On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 18:59:56 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:53:26 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: i had a CMOS checksum error on my CNC mill. So, I installed a new motherboard battery. Now the CPU fan just comes on and it makes no attempt to boot. Is the computer DOA? I checked connections and wiggled stuff. Remove the new battery & short out the socket for a few seconds, then reinstall the battery. You may have some corrupt data in the CMOS scratchpad RAM. tryed that, No Joy Try another power supply, if you have one. You may have a dying or dead motherboard. Unplug all the drives, and cards except the video card, if it isn't part of the motherboard. If you can't get the bios screen to flash, look at the electrolytics on the motherboard, and the ones near the processor in particular. If they are bulging, they need replaced, or replace the motherboard. They are a special low ESR 105° C type capacitor, and not always easy to replace, because they are soldered to internal layers. If you can find the exact same type motherboard, and move the processor to the replacement board you shouldn't have to reinstall any software. This is a P4 motherboard with an ISA slot for my Galil card. Rare and expensive to replace. I happen to be in Ocala Tuesday. Are you interested in looking at it? Karl Anybody with more than one computer should get a power supply tester. They are just not expensive at $23. Its the first thing I do on a problem box and often the only thing I need to do. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16899705003 Too bad the PC based machine tools I work on..use an XT power supply. You are lucky The XT type supplies were a LOT more robust than the ATX (and you CAN convert an ATX power supply to run an XT motherboard) Bummer Gunner The methodology of the left has always been: 1. Lie 2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible 3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible 4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie 5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw 6. Then everyone must conform to the lie |
did i kill my 'puter
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 20:28:48 -0500, wrote:
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 16:13:43 -0800, Gunner wrote: On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 21:08:33 -0500, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote: On 11/16/2012 8:14 PM, Karl Townsend wrote: On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 18:59:56 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:53:26 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: i had a CMOS checksum error on my CNC mill. So, I installed a new motherboard battery. Now the CPU fan just comes on and it makes no attempt to boot. Is the computer DOA? I checked connections and wiggled stuff. Remove the new battery & short out the socket for a few seconds, then reinstall the battery. You may have some corrupt data in the CMOS scratchpad RAM. tryed that, No Joy Try another power supply, if you have one. You may have a dying or dead motherboard. Unplug all the drives, and cards except the video card, if it isn't part of the motherboard. If you can't get the bios screen to flash, look at the electrolytics on the motherboard, and the ones near the processor in particular. If they are bulging, they need replaced, or replace the motherboard. They are a special low ESR 105° C type capacitor, and not always easy to replace, because they are soldered to internal layers. If you can find the exact same type motherboard, and move the processor to the replacement board you shouldn't have to reinstall any software. This is a P4 motherboard with an ISA slot for my Galil card. Rare and expensive to replace. I happen to be in Ocala Tuesday. Are you interested in looking at it? Karl Anybody with more than one computer should get a power supply tester. They are just not expensive at $23. Its the first thing I do on a problem box and often the only thing I need to do. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16899705003 Too bad the PC based machine tools I work on..use an XT power supply. You are lucky The XT type supplies were a LOT more robust than the ATX (and you CAN convert an ATX power supply to run an XT motherboard) What?..one needs a pin removal tool and? I can find new 300 watt power supplies but they are getting harder to find. Gunner Bummer Gunner The methodology of the left has always been: 1. Lie 2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible 3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible 4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie 5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw 6. Then everyone must conform to the lie The methodology of the left has always been: 1. Lie 2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible 3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible 4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie 5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw 6. Then everyone must conform to the lie |
did i kill my 'puter
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did i kill my 'puter
On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 09:51:00 -0500, the renowned "Pete C."
wrote: wrote: On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 10:00:24 -0500, "Pete C." wrote: wrote: I have restored function to computers by unplugging them from electricity and unplugging and re plugging every connector in the computer. Doing the unplug/re plug routine gives all the connectors a new fresh connection. Corroded memory board contacts will keep the computer from booting. ^ This. Whenever strange issues start to crop up with a machine that's fairly old, powering it down and unplugging/replugging every connector a few times wipes oxide buildup off the contacts and usually solves the problem. That was particularly true back in the days of the "model T" computers - where all of the ICs were socketed - and only the best used high quality screw machine? sockets. Every memory bit was a separate chup - with tinned legs. On today's computers, with gold plated instead of tinned connections, it is EXTREMELY rare. Nope. I've personally seen it on $$$ equipment with top quality gold plated connectors. Reseat those connectors a few times and the problem goes away. Sometimes it's a cold solder joint somewhere that starts working again when the board is flexed and the oxidation is temporarily wiped. Chances are it will come back in either case. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
did i kill my 'puter
Spehro Pefhany wrote: On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 09:51:00 -0500, the renowned "Pete C." wrote: wrote: On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 10:00:24 -0500, "Pete C." wrote: wrote: I have restored function to computers by unplugging them from electricity and unplugging and re plugging every connector in the computer. Doing the unplug/re plug routine gives all the connectors a new fresh connection. Corroded memory board contacts will keep the computer from booting. ^ This. Whenever strange issues start to crop up with a machine that's fairly old, powering it down and unplugging/replugging every connector a few times wipes oxide buildup off the contacts and usually solves the problem. That was particularly true back in the days of the "model T" computers - where all of the ICs were socketed - and only the best used high quality screw machine? sockets. Every memory bit was a separate chup - with tinned legs. On today's computers, with gold plated instead of tinned connections, it is EXTREMELY rare. Nope. I've personally seen it on $$$ equipment with top quality gold plated connectors. Reseat those connectors a few times and the problem goes away. Sometimes it's a cold solder joint somewhere that starts working again when the board is flexed and the oxidation is temporarily wiped. Chances are it will come back in either case. It never has in my experience. The last one was some equipment that was unpowered for about a year and a half, lack of power seems to aggravate the issue. The equipment was having odd issues when powered up again, I powered down, reseated everything a few times and the problem went away. The problem never reappeared in the next four years the equipment was running. |
did i kill my 'puter
On Sunday, November 18, 2012 7:25:15 AM UTC-8, BQ340 wrote:
On 11/17/2012 10:00 AM, Pete C. wrote: ^ This. Whenever strange issues start to crop up with a machine that's fairly old, powering it down and unplugging/replugging every connector a few times wipes oxide buildup off the contacts and usually solves the problem. Exercising sockets is a valuable technique. Yes, I have experienced that too, especially with memory cards. I rub a piece of regular copy paper on the card contacts, it acts like like very fine sandpaper. That's called burnishing the contacts, another valuable technique. I think though what really happens is the oxide is on the contacts in the socket not on the gold card edge, but it works. Gold isn't immune to oxidization (it forms an oxygen monolayer spontaneously), but the film is thin and it doesn't grow. Tin also oxidizes, but a thin layer of tin oxide is conductive (it's indium/tin oxide that makes the transparent electrical connections for your LCD display). Most important, is that a speck of dust or a film of oil or moisture can be submicroscopic and still impede the low voltage connections in a computer. So, disturbing the surface by mechanical wiping (like, when you loosen and reseat a memory module) fixes that entire class of problem. |
did i kill my 'puter
whit3rd wrote:
On Sunday, November 18, 2012 7:25:15 AM UTC-8, BQ340 wrote: On 11/17/2012 10:00 AM, Pete C. wrote: ^ This. Whenever strange issues start to crop up with a machine that's fairly old, powering it down and unplugging/replugging every connector a few times wipes oxide buildup off the contacts and usually solves the problem. Exercising sockets is a valuable technique. Yes, I have experienced that too, especially with memory cards. I rub a piece of regular copy paper on the card contacts, it acts like like very fine sandpaper. That's called burnishing the contacts, another valuable technique. I think though what really happens is the oxide is on the contacts in the socket not on the gold card edge, but it works. Gold isn't immune to oxidization (it forms an oxygen monolayer spontaneously), but the film is thin and it doesn't grow. Tin also oxidizes, but a thin layer of tin oxide is conductive (it's indium/tin oxide that makes the transparent electrical connections for your LCD display). Most important, is that a speck of dust or a film of oil or moisture can be submicroscopic and still impede the low voltage connections in a computer. So, disturbing the surface by mechanical wiping (like, when you loosen and reseat a memory module) fixes that entire class of problem. I remembered this problem when a friend complained that the Cal Controls controller on her glass furnace was giving thermocouple failure faults. Various people had said to buy a new controller but as I have a Cal controller I was aware that the guts of the controller can be prised out of the panel mount enclosure, I presume to allow easy replacement when banks of them are fitted such as in plastic extruder lines. As I had mine apart to fit a comms module I was aware the PCB contacts were just tinned and might suffer this problem possibly causing issues with low level signals such as the thermocouple. I made a small pry bar to get the guts out and re-inserted it a couple of times and the problem went away. I've had the same happen on my controller more recently and removing and refitting it cured the fault. |
did i kill my 'puter
"David Billington" wrote in message
... ... I remembered this problem when a friend complained that the Cal Controls controller on her glass furnace was giving thermocouple failure faults. Various people had said to buy a new controller but as I have a Cal controller I was aware that the guts of the controller can be prised out of the panel mount enclosure, I presume to allow easy replacement when banks of them are fitted such as in plastic extruder lines. As I had mine apart to fit a comms module I was aware the PCB contacts were just tinned and might suffer this problem possibly causing issues with low level signals such as the thermocouple. I made a small pry bar to get the guts out and re-inserted it a couple of times and the problem went away. I've had the same happen on my controller more recently and removing and refitting it cured the fault. I have a nice 5-channel thermocouple temperature display in the kitchen that I bought real cheap, and then found that it intermittently went haywire until firmly rapped. Un- and re-plugging everything has fixed it. The culprit was likely a socketed 40-pin IC. http://www.doric-vas.com/400.htm Now I can tell that a cooking pot on the woodstove downstairs has reached boiling before I smell it burning. |
did i kill my 'puter
On 2012-11-18, Pete C. wrote:
Spehro Pefhany wrote: On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 09:51:00 -0500, the renowned "Pete C." wrote: wrote: [ ... ] On today's computers, with gold plated instead of tinned connections, it is EXTREMELY rare. Nope. I've personally seen it on $$$ equipment with top quality gold plated connectors. Reseat those connectors a few times and the problem goes away. Sometimes it's a cold solder joint somewhere that starts working again when the board is flexed and the oxidation is temporarily wiped. Chances are it will come back in either case. It never has in my experience. The last one was some equipment that was unpowered for about a year and a half, lack of power seems to aggravate the issue. The equipment was having odd issues when powered up again, I powered down, reseated everything a few times and the problem went away. The problem never reappeared in the next four years the equipment was running. Hmm ... if it was something made after the ROHS requirement came in, and if the connectors were plated with pure tin to match the requirements, the pure tin grows conductive whiskers -- quickly or over long periods of time. Whiskers across pins in active equipment may be vaporized, while those across unpowered equipment will just stay there until it is powered on. If multiple whiskers bridge a given connection, there may not be sufficient current to blow the whiskers away. But yes, oxidiation in connectors -- sitting idle or in frequent use -- can be a problem. My most frequent experience with that was the motherboard of the SWTP 6800 home computer kit. The bus connectors were each a row of fifty pins sticking up, and Molex connectors which slide over those. About once a year I would have to open it up and pull each board off and slide it on a few times to clean the oxide. A real pain, but at least I knew how to fix it. :-) Good Luck, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
did i kill my 'puter
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
... On today's computers, with gold plated instead of tinned connections, it is EXTREMELY rare. Good Luck, DoN. I thought bad connections had bitten me this afternoon. I installed a new 2G RAM stick, booted, and got a message that memory had changed, ending with "To resolve this issue, try to reseat the memory". Two or three long minutes later a prompt to hit F5 to run the boot rom diagnostics appeared. It passed just fine and then opened Windows properly. |
did i kill my 'puter
On 2012-11-19, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... On today's computers, with gold plated instead of tinned connections, it is EXTREMELY rare. Good Luck, DoN. I thought bad connections had bitten me this afternoon. I installed a new 2G RAM stick, booted, and got a message that memory had changed, ending with "To resolve this issue, try to reseat the memory". Of course it changed. You *added* memory -- or replaced a failed unit (you didn't say which). It apparently does not know the difference between an increase in avaiable memory and a decrease. (Perhaps this is a side-effect of Windows being designed to consider any change a sign of possibly being moved to a new computer?) Two or three long minutes later a prompt to hit F5 to run the boot rom diagnostics appeared. It passed just fine and then opened Windows properly. Likely just complaining about the increase. :-) I still remember the early message (which I first saw on a Wyse PC -- pre Windows even -- which said: Keyboard missing. Hit F1 to continue. (and exactly how you were supposed to hit F1 when the keyboard was missing was not explained. :-) Enjoy, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
did i kill my 'puter
On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 09:51:00 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote: wrote: On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 10:00:24 -0500, "Pete C." wrote: wrote: I have restored function to computers by unplugging them from electricity and unplugging and re plugging every connector in the computer. Doing the unplug/re plug routine gives all the connectors a new fresh connection. Corroded memory board contacts will keep the computer from booting. ^ This. Whenever strange issues start to crop up with a machine that's fairly old, powering it down and unplugging/replugging every connector a few times wipes oxide buildup off the contacts and usually solves the problem. That was particularly true back in the days of the "model T" computers - where all of the ICs were socketed - and only the best used high quality screw machine? sockets. Every memory bit was a separate chup - with tinned legs. On today's computers, with gold plated instead of tinned connections, it is EXTREMELY rare. Nope. I've personally seen it on $$$ equipment with top quality gold plated connectors. Reseat those connectors a few times and the problem goes away. I work on them every day - and other than add-on cards I have NOT seen a single one in the last 8 or more years. |
did i kill my 'puter
On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 09:58:04 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
wrote: On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 09:51:00 -0500, the renowned "Pete C." wrote: wrote: On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 10:00:24 -0500, "Pete C." wrote: wrote: I have restored function to computers by unplugging them from electricity and unplugging and re plugging every connector in the computer. Doing the unplug/re plug routine gives all the connectors a new fresh connection. Corroded memory board contacts will keep the computer from booting. ^ This. Whenever strange issues start to crop up with a machine that's fairly old, powering it down and unplugging/replugging every connector a few times wipes oxide buildup off the contacts and usually solves the problem. That was particularly true back in the days of the "model T" computers - where all of the ICs were socketed - and only the best used high quality screw machine? sockets. Every memory bit was a separate chup - with tinned legs. On today's computers, with gold plated instead of tinned connections, it is EXTREMELY rare. Nope. I've personally seen it on $$$ equipment with top quality gold plated connectors. Reseat those connectors a few times and the problem goes away. Sometimes it's a cold solder joint somewhere that starts working again when the board is flexed and the oxidation is temporarily wiped. Chances are it will come back in either case. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany Now THAT I have seen. |
did i kill my 'puter
On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 11:56:41 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote: Spehro Pefhany wrote: On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 09:51:00 -0500, the renowned "Pete C." wrote: wrote: On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 10:00:24 -0500, "Pete C." wrote: wrote: I have restored function to computers by unplugging them from electricity and unplugging and re plugging every connector in the computer. Doing the unplug/re plug routine gives all the connectors a new fresh connection. Corroded memory board contacts will keep the computer from booting. ^ This. Whenever strange issues start to crop up with a machine that's fairly old, powering it down and unplugging/replugging every connector a few times wipes oxide buildup off the contacts and usually solves the problem. That was particularly true back in the days of the "model T" computers - where all of the ICs were socketed - and only the best used high quality screw machine? sockets. Every memory bit was a separate chup - with tinned legs. On today's computers, with gold plated instead of tinned connections, it is EXTREMELY rare. Nope. I've personally seen it on $$$ equipment with top quality gold plated connectors. Reseat those connectors a few times and the problem goes away. Sometimes it's a cold solder joint somewhere that starts working again when the board is flexed and the oxidation is temporarily wiped. Chances are it will come back in either case. It never has in my experience. The last one was some equipment that was unpowered for about a year and a half, lack of power seems to aggravate the issue. The equipment was having odd issues when powered up again, I powered down, reseated everything a few times and the problem went away. The problem never reappeared in the next four years the equipment was running. If it was left sitting in a cool damp corrosive atmosphere I can see it. On a machine in relatively normal use it is NOT an issue any more - although it definitely was a common failure a decade or more ago. Might be a problem on cheap crap machines - but I have not had the problen even on Dell - or Compaq/HP. |
did i kill my 'puter
On 18 Nov 2012 22:48:22 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote: On 2012-11-18, Pete C. wrote: Spehro Pefhany wrote: On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 09:51:00 -0500, the renowned "Pete C." wrote: wrote: [ ... ] On today's computers, with gold plated instead of tinned connections, it is EXTREMELY rare. Nope. I've personally seen it on $$$ equipment with top quality gold plated connectors. Reseat those connectors a few times and the problem goes away. Sometimes it's a cold solder joint somewhere that starts working again when the board is flexed and the oxidation is temporarily wiped. Chances are it will come back in either case. It never has in my experience. The last one was some equipment that was unpowered for about a year and a half, lack of power seems to aggravate the issue. The equipment was having odd issues when powered up again, I powered down, reseated everything a few times and the problem went away. The problem never reappeared in the next four years the equipment was running. Hmm ... if it was something made after the ROHS requirement came in, and if the connectors were plated with pure tin to match the requirements, the pure tin grows conductive whiskers -- quickly or over long periods of time. Whiskers across pins in active equipment may be vaporized, while those across unpowered equipment will just stay there until it is powered on. If multiple whiskers bridge a given connection, there may not be sufficient current to blow the whiskers away. But yes, oxidiation in connectors -- sitting idle or in frequent use -- can be a problem. My most frequent experience with that was the motherboard of the SWTP 6800 home computer kit. The bus connectors were each a row of fifty pins sticking up, and Molex connectors which slide over those. About once a year I would have to open it up and pull each board off and slide it on a few times to clean the oxide. A real pain, but at least I knew how to fix it. :-) Good Luck, DoN. There was a product made for that - can't remember but I think it was de-ox-it. Put it on at assembly and NEVER have the problem. The concentrate was over $30 an ounce over 20 years ago - but you mixed it about 6:1 with ethanol and it went a LONG way. |
did i kill my 'puter
On 19 Nov 2012 01:08:40 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote: On 2012-11-19, Jim Wilkins wrote: "DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... On today's computers, with gold plated instead of tinned connections, it is EXTREMELY rare. Good Luck, DoN. I thought bad connections had bitten me this afternoon. I installed a new 2G RAM stick, booted, and got a message that memory had changed, ending with "To resolve this issue, try to reseat the memory". Of course it changed. You *added* memory -- or replaced a failed unit (you didn't say which). It apparently does not know the difference between an increase in avaiable memory and a decrease. (Perhaps this is a side-effect of Windows being designed to consider any change a sign of possibly being moved to a new computer?) Except the error was not generated by Windows. It is a BIOS prompt. Two or three long minutes later a prompt to hit F5 to run the boot rom diagnostics appeared. It passed just fine and then opened Windows properly. Likely just complaining about the increase. :-) I still remember the early message (which I first saw on a Wyse PC -- pre Windows even -- which said: Keyboard missing. Hit F1 to continue. Yup. a lot of old CPM machines did the same. It was a "stacked" error code. Anything that tripped the bios error code was reported - and then the standard "hit F1 to continue" which was supposed to get you into the PIOS setup. (and exactly how you were supposed to hit F1 when the keyboard was missing was not explained. :-) Enjoy, DoN. |
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