FREEPORT, Ill. 10-26-2012

Bain Capital-owned Sensata plans to close the Freeport plant in December and
outsource the plant's 170 jobs to China. Workers at the plant have been
training their Chinese replacements, who have been flown to Illinois by the
company.

Created by Bain in 2006, Sensata develops, manufactures, and sells sensors
and controls for major auto manufacturers such as Ford and General Motors.


http://rockrivertimes.com

Will Mitt save these american jobs if elected?

I hear Mitt has connections at bain.



Best Regards
Tom.
www.fija.org

Howard Beal wrote:

FREEPORT, Ill. 10-26-2012

Bain Capital-owned Sensata plans to close the Freeport plant in December and
outsource the plant's 170 jobs to China. Workers at the plant have been
training their Chinese replacements, who have been flown to Illinois by the
company.

Created by Bain in 2006, Sensata develops, manufactures, and sells sensors
and controls for major auto manufacturers such as Ford and General Motors.



Sensata is the old sensor division of Texas Instruments. They
dropped most of the useful products soon after. Another case of a
business that was closing, and venture capital tried to save it. Only a
complete fool thinks Romney still controls Bain Capital.

"Spehro Pefhany" wrote


The most insiduous form of government control is through regulations
put on businesses. By legislating controls, invisible to most
consumers, businesses are forced to act as unpaid bill collectors,
snitches and do a thousand other unpalatable things that government
wants or needs done but is too afraid to do themselves.

Government is the last refuge of the incompetent.

Some big book I have in my bathroom. I could never come up with anything so
profound in so few words.

Steve

pyotr filipivich wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

They are in a shrinking world market, and competing with chinese
companies. It's move or die. Most of their customers are foreign car
companies.

And some of the work which moved to China because of costs, is
moving back for the same reasons.


In this case, they'll be located closer to their customers.
Mechanical temperature sensors are being replaced with electronic
sensors, and the market is shrinking. A market that never employed more
than a couple hundred people in the US. I agree, we need more on shore
manufacturing but some markets just aren't worth it at this time.

"Michael A. Terrell" on Sun, 28 Oct 2012
09:37:42 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

pyotr filipivich wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

They are in a shrinking world market, and competing with chinese
companies. It's move or die. Most of their customers are foreign car
companies.

And some of the work which moved to China because of costs, is
moving back for the same reasons.


In this case, they'll be located closer to their customers.
Mechanical temperature sensors are being replaced with electronic
sensors, and the market is shrinking. A market that never employed more
than a couple hundred people in the US. I agree, we need more on shore
manufacturing but some markets just aren't worth it at this time.

Yep. "We shall make electricity so cheap, only the rich will burn
candles." Thomas Edison.
What I mean is that , for better or worse - the mass market no
longer supports the "old way" - no matter who good it might have been.
Those who don't want "new and improved" - or for whom "new and
improved" doesn't work - are either out of luck, or have to spend big
bucks to get what works.
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.

pyotr filipivich wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" on Sun, 28 Oct 2012
09:37:42 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

pyotr filipivich wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

They are in a shrinking world market, and competing with chinese
companies. It's move or die. Most of their customers are foreign car
companies.

And some of the work which moved to China because of costs, is
moving back for the same reasons.


In this case, they'll be located closer to their customers.
Mechanical temperature sensors are being replaced with electronic
sensors, and the market is shrinking. A market that never employed more
than a couple hundred people in the US. I agree, we need more on shore
manufacturing but some markets just aren't worth it at this time.

Yep. "We shall make electricity so cheap, only the rich will burn
candles." Thomas Edison.
What I mean is that , for better or worse - the mass market no
longer supports the "old way" - no matter who good it might have been.
Those who don't want "new and improved" - or for whom "new and
improved" doesn't work - are either out of luck, or have to spend big
bucks to get what works.


No need for buggy whips, when people don't use horse drawn buggies
anymore.

The B.O. ad bitching about Bain closing that Marion, Indiana Ampad
factory never mentions that people don't use as many legal pads and
notepads as they used to. Businesses use computers, so they should
blame Bill gates for that plant closing. How often do you see tractor
feed printer paper these days? Green bar printouts are rare. The last
I saw was in 2001.

"Michael A. Terrell" on Mon, 29 Oct 2012
03:17:32 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

pyotr filipivich wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" on Sun, 28 Oct 2012
09:37:42 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

pyotr filipivich wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

They are in a shrinking world market, and competing with chinese
companies. It's move or die. Most of their customers are foreign car
companies.

And some of the work which moved to China because of costs, is
moving back for the same reasons.


In this case, they'll be located closer to their customers.
Mechanical temperature sensors are being replaced with electronic
sensors, and the market is shrinking. A market that never employed more
than a couple hundred people in the US. I agree, we need more on shore
manufacturing but some markets just aren't worth it at this time.

Yep. "We shall make electricity so cheap, only the rich will burn
candles." Thomas Edison.
What I mean is that , for better or worse - the mass market no
longer supports the "old way" - no matter who good it might have been.
Those who don't want "new and improved" - or for whom "new and
improved" doesn't work - are either out of luck, or have to spend big
bucks to get what works.


No need for buggy whips, when people don't use horse drawn buggies
anymore.

True. But the S&M trade pays a premium for them. The whips, not
the buggies.

The B.O. ad bitching about Bain closing that Marion, Indiana Ampad
factory never mentions that people don't use as many legal pads and
notepads as they used to. Businesses use computers, so they should
blame Bill gates for that plant closing. How often do you see tractor
feed printer paper these days? Green bar printouts are rare. The last
I saw was in 2001.

I still have two boxes of printer paper, one green bar, one bond.
tractor feed - unopened. Since ..? 95? There's another open box of
the bond, which I use to supply paper for the Sunday school kids.

Interesting thing, the tractor feed paper, intended for use with
ink, and not lasers, "works" much better for hand written missives. So
I essentially I have two stocks of paper: printing paper, and writing
paper.

--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.

pyotr filipivich wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

No need for buggy whips, when people don't use horse drawn buggies
anymore.

True. But the S&M trade pays a premium for them. The whips, not
the buggies.


I'll have to take your word on that.

In any case, they don't really 'need' them.


The B.O. ad bitching about Bain closing that Marion, Indiana Ampad
factory never mentions that people don't use as many legal pads and
notepads as they used to. Businesses use computers, so they should
blame Bill gates for that plant closing. How often do you see tractor
feed printer paper these days? Green bar printouts are rare. The last
I saw was in 2001.

I still have two boxes of printer paper, one green bar, one bond.
tractor feed - unopened. Since ..? 95? There's another open box of
the bond, which I use to supply paper for the Sunday school kids.

Interesting thing, the tractor feed paper, intended for use with
ink, and not lasers, "works" much better for hand written missives. So
I essentially I have two stocks of paper: printing paper, and writing
paper.


I have a couple boxes of used greenbar from a printing company. They
used it to print proofs for new books. After it was proofread & edited,
it was tossed back in the box. I used to give it to kids to color on
the back side. They loved the wide carriage paper.

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 09:44:09 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:


I still have two boxes of printer paper, one green bar, one bond.
tractor feed - unopened. Since ..? 95? There's another open box of
the bond, which I use to supply paper for the Sunday school kids.

Interesting thing, the tractor feed paper, intended for use with
ink, and not lasers, "works" much better for hand written missives. So
I essentially I have two stocks of paper: printing paper, and writing
paper.

--
pyotr

I use tractor feed paper to make scratch pads to carry in my shirt
pocket in place of the cigarette box I used to carry to write notes
on. I take about 3/8" pile and staple it to a heavier backing then cut
it on the band saw. In my case, 8 pads 2 i/2 x 4 3/4". I know, how
many scratch pads can one person use? but I have a friend who is a
girl guide leader who will take as many as I will donate to hand out
to the girls as an example of re-purposing a product that a lot of
people would dsicard. Backing card comes from report covers I got at
yard sales, but I have used cerial box board.
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

"Michael A. Terrell" on Mon, 29 Oct 2012
13:25:20 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

pyotr filipivich wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

No need for buggy whips, when people don't use horse drawn buggies
anymore.

True. But the S&M trade pays a premium for them. The whips, not
the buggies.


I'll have to take your word on that.

I read a lot.

In any case, they don't really 'need' them.

What, they don't have a right to self-expression? {Shel
Silversteen's song "Ever Since my Masochistic Baby Left Me (I've had
nothing to hit, but the wall.)"}


The B.O. ad bitching about Bain closing that Marion, Indiana Ampad
factory never mentions that people don't use as many legal pads and
notepads as they used to. Businesses use computers, so they should
blame Bill gates for that plant closing. How often do you see tractor
feed printer paper these days? Green bar printouts are rare. The last
I saw was in 2001.

I still have two boxes of printer paper, one green bar, one bond.
tractor feed - unopened. Since ..? 95? There's another open box of
the bond, which I use to supply paper for the Sunday school kids.

Interesting thing, the tractor feed paper, intended for use with
ink, and not lasers, "works" much better for hand written missives. So
I essentially I have two stocks of paper: printing paper, and writing
paper.
I have a couple boxes of used greenbar from a printing company. They
used it to print proofs for new books. After it was proofread & edited,
it was tossed back in the box. I used to give it to kids to color on
the back side. They loved the wide carriage paper.

I worked a short time at a print plant, Was saving the extra
sheets of paper - asked the Manager (it turned out), if I could have
some of the spare paper - meaning the handful I had. "I've a
girlfriend who teaches Sunday school..." and he said, "Oh, no problem
- you want a butt roll?" Twenty four inch wide heavy paper, "end of
the roll" - about three inch thick on a four inch core. "Extra -
might as well use it up, we'll just recycle it."
I grabbed two. And a roll of the lighter weight (but only 18 inch
wide).
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 21:41:47 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" on Mon, 29 Oct 2012
13:25:20 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

pyotr filipivich wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

No need for buggy whips, when people don't use horse drawn buggies
anymore.

True. But the S&M trade pays a premium for them. The whips, not
the buggies.


I'll have to take your word on that.

I read a lot.

If nothing else, people should know at least a little bit about BDSM
from the sheer quantity of junk emails that hit their machines every
year. I responded to a guy writing back about my Craigslist ad and
ended up the receiver of smut spam for a couple weeks. Some of it was
very creative with borderline young girls wink, but definitely
unwanted.



In any case, they don't really 'need' them.

What, they don't have a right to self-expression? {Shel
Silversteen's song "Ever Since my Masochistic Baby Left Me (I've had
nothing to hit, but the wall.)"}

Masochist: Go ahead, hit me!

Sadist: No.



I worked a short time at a print plant, Was saving the extra
sheets of paper - asked the Manager (it turned out), if I could have
some of the spare paper - meaning the handful I had. "I've a
girlfriend who teaches Sunday school..." and he said, "Oh, no problem
- you want a butt roll?" Twenty four inch wide heavy paper, "end of
the roll" - about three inch thick on a four inch core. "Extra -
might as well use it up, we'll just recycle it."
I grabbed two. And a roll of the lighter weight (but only 18 inch
wide).

I get newsprint butt rolls from the local paper for $0-5 (usually $2)
and use it on my assembly and finishing table, wad it up for packing,
write on it for signs, etc. I have half a dozen rolls right now which
should last me another decade. Some thick, some thin, some wide, some
narrow, some beige, some gray, some pure white.

--
No greater wrong can ever be done than to put a good man at the mercy
of a bad, while telling him not to defend himself or his fellows;
in no way can the success of evil be made quicker or surer.
--Theodore Roosevelt

Tom Gardner wrote:

I just cringe at the leftist battle cry: "More taxes on business!" They
really don't get it, do they?


They don't understand why the sun 'disappears at night'. They have to
take off their shoes to count over 10. If they were birds, they would
be turkeys. Birds so stupid they can drown when it rains, because they
keep their head pointed up. The Monty Python 'Dead parrot' is smarter,
and it's dead!

jim wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
?
? He means that they will continue to patch together old machines, and
? give people overtime rather than invest in new equipment and employees.
? It's obvious that you don't understand how business works.

That would be acting like pouting children if they were losing
sales and profits as a result. In other words, shooting themselves
in the foot. But that is not the case. The reason businesses are
not investing in new equipment and hiring and training employees is
because they don't have the sales prospects that would justify
that investment.



Idiot. They are being responsible by not taking on more expenses.
Machinery is paid for when ordered. Some can take well over a year for
delivery and two years isn't unheard of. Each extra employee adds to
insurance costs, and adds other overhead. If they hire a bunch of
people then lay them off a few months later, they'll have to pay the
unemployment costs. They are just trying to keep the doors open
without going into debt. It's not a matter of justifying, since there
is no possible justification to waste assets. They can't even justify
new tooling, in an uncertain market.


And if you think that situation is bad now, it will get much
worse when Congress tries to reduce the deficit. Businesses
will find it even more difficult to find sales prospects.


So, Congress is going to force more businesses into bankruptcy? Like
I said above, you don't have a clue about business.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

jim wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
?
? He means that they will continue to patch together old machines, and
? give people overtime rather than invest in new equipment and employees.
? It's obvious that you don't understand how business works.

That would be acting like pouting children if they were losing
sales and profits as a result. In other words, shooting themselves
in the foot. But that is not the case. The reason businesses are
not investing in new equipment and hiring and training employees is
because they don't have the sales prospects that would justify
that investment.

Idiot. They are being responsible by not taking on more expenses.

Yes. I'm not the one suggesting businesses are acting like
pouting children.


Machinery is paid for when ordered. Some can take well over a year for
delivery and two years isn't unheard of. Each extra employee adds to
insurance costs, and adds other overhead. If they hire a bunch of
people then lay them off a few months later, they'll have to pay the
unemployment costs. They are just trying to keep the doors open
without going into debt. It's not a matter of justifying, since there
is no possible justification to waste assets. They can't even justify
new tooling, in an uncertain market.

Businesses would be doing all that if they had orders and
the expectation of future orders to justify the expense.




And if you think that situation is bad now, it will get much
worse when Congress tries to reduce the deficit. Businesses
will find it even more difficult to find sales prospects.

So, Congress is going to force more businesses into bankruptcy? Like
I said above, you don't have a clue about business.

You are talking to yourself.

"Michael A. Terrell" on Tue, 30 Oct 2012
12:40:43 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
jim wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
? He means that they will continue to patch together old machines, and
? give people overtime rather than invest in new equipment and employees.
? It's obvious that you don't understand how business works.

That would be acting like pouting children if they were losing
sales and profits as a result. In other words, shooting themselves
in the foot. But that is not the case. The reason businesses are
not investing in new equipment and hiring and training employees is
because they don't have the sales prospects that would justify
that investment.

Idiot. They are being responsible by not taking on more expenses.
Machinery is paid for when ordered. Some can take well over a year for
delivery and two years isn't unheard of. Each extra employee adds to
insurance costs, and adds other overhead. If they hire a bunch of
people then lay them off a few months later, they'll have to pay the
unemployment costs. They are just trying to keep the doors open
without going into debt. It's not a matter of justifying, since there
is no possible justification to waste assets. They can't even justify
new tooling, in an uncertain market.

I asked, once when the company was doing a lot of over time, why
it didn't hire more people. Basically, it is cheaper for the company
to pay two guys for twenty hours of over time, each, for a week, than
to hire one guy to work those forty hours. Cheaper to pay two guys 15
an hour, than to hire one guy at 10. Hmmm, there is something screwy
with the regulations.


And if you think that situation is bad now, it will get much
worse when Congress tries to reduce the deficit. Businesses
will find it even more difficult to find sales prospects.

So, Congress is going to force more businesses into bankruptcy? Like
I said above, you don't have a clue about business.

Consistency - that is what Business (or anyone) desires. SO that
they can plan. Remember, US Manufacturing made a lot of money, hired
a lot of people - in the high tax 50s. It isn't so much "high taxes"
as the changes in fees, contributions, assessments, and definition of
what qualifies as what - this month - which create a "business
climate" where one is adverse to increase commitments.


--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.

On 2012-10-30, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Gunner wrote:
Care to put $5 on it?
Where would he get $5 that aren't food stamps?

OK, I will bite, where would you get $5 that aren't food stamps?

i

Ignoramus6492 wrote:

On 2012-10-30, Michael A. Terrell ? wrote:
? Gunner wrote:
?? Care to put $5 on it?
? Where would he get $5 that aren't food stamps?

OK, I will bite, where would you get $5 that aren't food stamps?



Don't ask me. I'm not on food stamps.

pyotr filipivich wrote:


I asked, once when the company was doing a lot of over time, why
it didn't hire more people. Basically, it is cheaper for the company
to pay two guys for twenty hours of over time, each, for a week, than
to hire one guy to work those forty hours. Cheaper to pay two guys 15
an hour, than to hire one guy at 10. Hmmm, there is something screwy
with the regulations.

What exactly does regulations have to do with
the economics of a company hiring policy?

On 2012-10-31, whoyakidding wrote:
I am in "business" too, and
I realize fully that business is about making money, and if an
investment is profitable, it will be made. A change of tax rate on
profits by a couple of percentage points does not fundamentally change
those calculations.

Exactly. And if that wasn't true then other (most) countries with
higher taxes wouldn't attract ANY investment. And Tom would be too
busy packing to invest his abundant free time in irrational whining.

Yes. Say, for example, that there is a project to make door handles,
where an investment of $500,000 would yield $100,000 annual profit
before tax. If the effective tax rate is 40%, it means 60,000 profit
after tax, or 12% return.

If the tax rate was changed from 40% to 43%, the return would change
57,000 per annum, or about 11.4 percent, not a lot of
difference. Additionally, businesses could pass some cost of capital
to the consumers, and so, the decrease in effective returns would be
even smaller.

i

Ignoramus6492 wrote:

On 2012-10-31, whoyakidding ? wrote:
?? I am in "business" too, and
??I realize fully that business is about making money, and if an
??investment is profitable, it will be made. A change of tax rate on
??profits by a couple of percentage points does not fundamentally change
??those calculations.
?
? Exactly. And if that wasn't true then other (most) countries with
? higher taxes wouldn't attract ANY investment. And Tom would be too
? busy packing to invest his abundant free time in irrational whining.

Yes. Say, for example, that there is a project to make door handles,
where an investment of $500,000 would yield $100,000 annual profit
before tax. If the effective tax rate is 40%, it means 60,000 profit
after tax, or 12% return.

If the tax rate was changed from 40% to 43%, the return would change
57,000 per annum, or about 11.4 percent, not a lot of
difference. Additionally, businesses could pass some cost of capital
to the consumers, and so, the decrease in effective returns would be
even smaller.


Not if the consumers told you to **** off for your new prices.

"Ignoramus6492" wrote in message
...
On 2012-10-31, whoyakidding wrote:
I am in "business" too, and
I realize fully that business is about making money, and if an
investment is profitable, it will be made. A change of tax rate on
profits by a couple of percentage points does not fundamentally change
those calculations.

Exactly. And if that wasn't true then other (most) countries with
higher taxes wouldn't attract ANY investment. And Tom would be too
busy packing to invest his abundant free time in irrational whining.

Yes. Say, for example, that there is a project to make door handles,
where an investment of $500,000 would yield $100,000 annual profit
before tax. If the effective tax rate is 40%, it means 60,000 profit
after tax, or 12% return.

If the tax rate was changed from 40% to 43%, the return would change
57,000 per annum, or about 11.4 percent, not a lot of
difference. Additionally, businesses could pass some cost of capital
to the consumers, and so, the decrease in effective returns would be
even smaller.


Businesses don't pay taxes, they collect them from their customers.