Background:

A long time ago I bought two bench grinders from Grainger. They are 8
inch belt driven grinders. And I like them because they are slimmer
than ones with a motor between the two wheels. And i also like the
size. 6 inch wheels seem to be a little small. I also have a 10 inch
grinder so I am not lacking for grinders. The 10 inch one has two
regular wheels. One of the 8 inch ones has a wire brush and a
abrasive cut off wheel. And I just made another stand and plan on
that 8 inch grinder having a fine wheel and a rubber contact wheel
that uses sanding belts.

I have had a General drill sharpener fixture for ages and decided to
figure out a way to use it with the fine wheel on the 8 inch grinder.
So I was rooting around on the internet looking for instructions for
the General fixture and ran across several videos of how to grind
drill bits by hand.
I can grind drills by hand if they are not too small. I taught
myself. Anyway I watched a couple of the videos and saw that the
videos show a somewhat different way to sharpen drills.

When I sharpen drills I start grinding on the heal and finish at the
cutting edge. Both videos showed the grinding starting at the cutting
edge and ending up grinding the heal. So I am curious how most people
grind drills by hand.

I mounted the General fixture a bit different from the instructions.
It is rotated 90 degrees from the usual position and the cutting is
done on the outside of the wheel. So the drill is in about the same
position as it would be if sharpening by hand. Somehow grinding on
the side of the wheel seems wrong. This does have the advantage that
any grind marks are perpendicular to the cutting edge. Not really a
big deal as fine stone is 100 grit and the grind marks are pretty much
invisible.

The big advantage is that the fixture stays on the adapter I made and
the adapter mounts quickly in place of the tool rests using wind
nuts. So the fixture is not in the way, yet is easily put in place.

Dan

wrote
...
When I sharpen drills I start grinding on the heal and finish at the
cutting edge. Both videos showed the grinding starting at the
cutting
edge and ending up grinding the heal. So I am curious how most
people
grind drills by hand...
Dan

I can start from a precise position more easily than stopping in one.

jsw

On 5/15/2012 8:35 AM, wrote:
Background:

A long time ago I bought two bench grinders from Grainger. They are 8
inch belt driven grinders. And I like them because they are slimmer
than ones with a motor between the two wheels. And i also like the
size. 6 inch wheels seem to be a little small. I also have a 10 inch
grinder so I am not lacking for grinders. The 10 inch one has two
regular wheels. One of the 8 inch ones has a wire brush and a
abrasive cut off wheel. And I just made another stand and plan on
that 8 inch grinder having a fine wheel and a rubber contact wheel
that uses sanding belts.

I have had a General drill sharpener fixture for ages and decided to
figure out a way to use it with the fine wheel on the 8 inch grinder.
So I was rooting around on the internet looking for instructions for
the General fixture and ran across several videos of how to grind
drill bits by hand.
I can grind drills by hand if they are not too small. I taught
myself. Anyway I watched a couple of the videos and saw that the
videos show a somewhat different way to sharpen drills.

When I sharpen drills I start grinding on the heal and finish at the
cutting edge. Both videos showed the grinding starting at the cutting
edge and ending up grinding the heal. So I am curious how most people
grind drills by hand.

I mounted the General fixture a bit different from the instructions.
It is rotated 90 degrees from the usual position and the cutting is
done on the outside of the wheel. So the drill is in about the same
position as it would be if sharpening by hand. Somehow grinding on
the side of the wheel seems wrong. This does have the advantage that
any grind marks are perpendicular to the cutting edge. Not really a
big deal as fine stone is 100 grit and the grind marks are pretty much
invisible.

The big advantage is that the fixture stays on the adapter I made and
the adapter mounts quickly in place of the tool rests using wind
nuts. So the fixture is not in the way, yet is easily put in place.

Dan

I start with the cutting edge and kind of "roll" the bit against the
wheel. I shade the bit tip with my hand and hold it up to the window
and rotate it to see that the grinding is equal on both sides. Both
corners should disappear at the same time on the same level. Then I
look down on the tip to see that the tip is centered and both sides are
the same.

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...

wrote
...
When I sharpen drills I start grinding on the heal and finish at the
cutting edge. Both videos showed the grinding starting at the cutting
edge and ending up grinding the heal. So I am curious how most people
grind drills by hand...
Dan

I can start from a precise position more easily than stopping in one.


Also, it's easier to overheat the edge if you start at the heel.

Personally, I grind the primary, the secondary, then finally I split the
point.

On May 15, 7:35*am, " wrote:
Background:

A long time ago I bought two bench grinders from Grainger. *They are 8
inch belt driven grinders. *And I like them because they are slimmer
than ones with a motor between the two wheels. *And i also like the
size. *6 inch wheels seem to be a little small. *I also have a 10 inch
grinder so I am not lacking for grinders. *The 10 inch one has two
regular wheels. *One of the 8 inch ones has a wire brush and a
abrasive cut off wheel. *And I just made another stand and plan on
that 8 inch grinder having a fine wheel and a rubber contact wheel
that uses sanding belts.

I have had a General drill sharpener fixture for ages and decided to
figure out a way to use it with the fine wheel on the 8 inch grinder.
So I was rooting around on the internet looking for instructions for
the General fixture and ran across several videos of how to grind
drill bits by hand.
I can grind drills by hand if they are not too small. *I taught
myself. *Anyway I watched a couple of the videos and saw that the
videos show a somewhat different way to sharpen drills.

When I sharpen drills I start grinding on the heal and finish at the
cutting edge. *Both videos showed the grinding starting at the cutting
edge and ending up grinding the heal. *So I am curious how most people
grind drills by hand.

I mounted the General fixture a bit different from the instructions.
It is rotated 90 degrees from the usual position and the cutting is
done on the outside of the wheel. *So the drill is in about the same
position as it would be if sharpening by hand. *Somehow grinding on
the side of the wheel seems wrong. *This does have the advantage that
any grind marks are perpendicular to the cutting edge. *Not really a
big deal as fine stone is 100 grit and the grind marks are pretty much
invisible.

The big advantage is that the fixture stays on the adapter I made and
the adapter mounts quickly in place of the tool rests using wind
nuts. *So the fixture is not in the way, yet is easily put in place.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Dan

I hand grind on the OD face and always start with the cutting edge
first. It helps me set the position I want. My drill bit grinding is
always a work in progress. Sometimes I mark the bit with a magic
marker to help to tell me how the bit is cutting and what edge to re-
dress.
There's a video of a homeowner-type German-made bit sharpener that I'd
like to try (but I don't know if it's available in the US):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9w6m...eature=related

In memoriam...
Best post ever from Teenut:

Subject: drill sharpening FAQ?
From: Robert Bastow
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:59:04 GMT


Intro snipped.....


The drill was ground, freehand, on
the FACE of the wheel (not the flat side)...care being taken to keep
the
POINT
angle as equal as possible on both sides..I'll tell you how to do THAT
in a
moment..


Lets do that now in fact..


Jim, You are dead right about not being able to grind a drill without
mechanical
help! Well here's how you create your own "6 Million Dollar Bionic
Darex"
;^)


Let's assume we are going to sharpen a 3/8" diameter, 2MT shank
drill..it is
about 8" long (these figures are arbitrary..I just want every one to
have
the
same mental picture of what I am describing. We approach the wheel,
which
has
been dressed on its face, dead straight across with no grooves..(Ve
SHOOT
anyone
ve catch putting grooves in ze drill wheel!!..No Pity..No
Prisoners..Ya!
Verdampt!)


(Sorry)...


The drill shank is held firmly in the RIGHT hand...ALL the movement
and
control
is imparted by the RIGHT hand. For the purposes of drill grinding, the
left
hand
could be...with benefit..a LUMP OF CLAY!!


It is from this "lump of clay" that we fashion the Bionic Darex".


Place your left hand thumb and finger tips LIGHTLY together..Relax the
other
three fingers aand let them naturally curl against the palm of your
hand.
Let
the drill flute drop into the vee between thumb and fore finger and
let the
tip
of the finger "Find" the curve of the flute where it fits comfortably.
The
tip
of the thumb rests on the sharp junction ot the land and the flute,
about an
inch back from the drill tip.


Now...SQUEEZE HARD!!! YOUCH!...I said it would be easier if it were
clay!
8^)
Lift the drill from your fingers...see the GROOVE?...Drop the drill
back
in..it
locates within a thou or two! Magic?..Bionic at least! Squeeze again
to set
the
groove. You have created a customised drill guide that fits better
that
that on
any machine ever built! You can relax your grip now..feel how
smoothly the
drill will ride back and forth, guided by the groove you have created
for
it.


Place the knuckles of your left hand, LIGHTLY on the ginding wheel
tool
rest,
and swing the drill shank, from left to right (using ONLY your right
hand)
and
push the drill lengthways though that groove in your fingers back or
forth
using
the groove to make the drill twist or "rifle" in your fingers. Do NOT
move
your
left hand in any way..it is made of clay remember!


UNTIL....


A) The drill axis is "eyeballed" to be at half the required point
angle to
the
wheel face...You can scribe or chalk reference lines on your grinder
benchtop to
help you line this up..at least untill it become almost second nature.

B) The drill axis is dropped JUUUst below horizontal. This will
ensure that
your soon to be ground drill lip will start with a "smidgin" of
cutting
clearance.


(Ideally, and certainly for a beginner, the grinder rest should be
set dead
radially to the wheel center and about half the drill diameter below
the
true
center of the wheel)


C) The two cutting edges of the drill..the straight, sharp bits,
formed by
the
junction of the flute and the back face (the only bit you grind),
should be
horizontally disposed..with the edge uppermost on the side closest to
your
left
hand..the othe sharp bit of course, pointing downwards (Jeeze this
would be
a
lot easier with a sketch pad)


This I will call the SET or START position!


NOW, move your left hand for the first, last, and ONLY time during th
is
whole
exercise. GENTLY ease the cutting edge towards the spinning wheel,
carefully
maintaining all the angles and orientations of the SET position..until
the
cutting edge is JUST shy of touching the wheel. If you listen
carefully you
will hear the tone of the entrained air, whistling through the
narrowing
gap.
You will hear a subtle but distinct change of tone JUST, I mean
Just...a
couple
tenths of a thou BEFORE the edge touches the wheel. STOP!!! FREEZE!!
DO
NOT
MOVE!!


Now, press the knuckles of your lump of clay..sorry, your left hand
FIRMLY
down
onto, into and around the grinding rest..establish a "Groove" on the
back of
your hand as well as between your fingers.


We are now ready to grind, Your left hand locked to the drill and
grinding
rest
is otherwise quite relaxed..letting the drill slide, twist and tilt
wherever
your right hand and the groove in your fingers tell it to go.


The actual grinding is a bit of an anticlimax.


You have previously studied a new drill point, you have read about
clearance,
and cutting angles, and rakes and......


With the RIGHT hand in control, gently, kinda, lean forward... bending
or
squeezing your arms hands and body..rather than actually moving
them..untill
you
take up that last couple of tenths and the wheel begins to cut. Let
it
cut..don't force it, and dont' rush it..it really won't hurt anything
if you
take a full minute Per pass per face. YOU and your "Bionic Darex" are
totally
in control of that drill and the wheel..Forget the times when, close
to
panic,
you swung the drill wildly past the wheel, hoping to get "the dirty
deed"
over
with as quickly as possible.


Take your time, enjoy the moment, THINK about the shape you are trying
to
generate. Just the one face is left to "Interpretation"...every other
aspect,angle, facet, what have you...Has ALREADY BEEN TAKEN CARE OF!!
and is
locked in place under your control!


The right hand should perfome a "Lower Quadrant sweep" for want of a
better
term..An observer behind you would see your hand move from about 17
minutes
past
the hour on a clock face, to roughly 25 minutes past. But it isn't a
smooth
arc
of a circle, more a sector of an elipse..You see, as your hand starts
to
drop
slowly, you are also rotating the drill in "the groove"..the first
third of
the
turn needs to maintain that very slight clearance angle on the cutting
edge,
and
not increase it too rapidly.


You need the clearance to cut..But too much at that point will WEAKEN
the
edge,
and cause the drill to snatch and chip...So the first part of the
rotation
is
ALMOST but not quite, just as though you were grinding a straight cone
point
on
the end of your drill. Only as you approach the second third, does
your
right
hand start to noticably drop..kinda "Catching Up" on the rotary
motion...increasing the clearance as it does.


In the last third of the rotaion the right hand drops quite
rapidly..Thogh
not
enough to catch the OTHER drill lip on the wheel..that lip is coming
around
quite rapidly by now.


Above all, take your time, if it helps, move the drill one degree at a
time,
and
think ahead what shape or angle the next degree of cutting face
needs...Remember, you have control, and IT ain't going nowhere 'til
you
decide.


After a pass on one face, flip the drill in your "Bionic Darex" DO
NOT MOVE
THAT LEFT HAND!!, return to SET position and repeat, the pass on the
other
face.


Having done a couple of passes on each face..it is now time to check
the
results
on our homemade "Optical Comparator"


(Sorry Jim I couldn't resist!!) ;^)


Rest the center hole in back end of the drill shank, on the center
point of
the
"Comparator" and use, first one and then the other drill lip to scribe
a
light
line on your whitewashed (OK Blue or red dyed) surface.


You will readily see if the lines coincide..if the lips are even..or
not, as
the
case may be.


Lets assume they are..Now look directly DOWN on the end of the drill
to
check
the clearances. HUH? How can you check radial clearance by looking it
staight
in the face? Surely you need to look at it sideways?


Well no you don't...for once all thos interacting and confusing angle
and
faces
and clearances are going to work together in YOUR favor and make what
could
be a
tricky bit of metrology..quite simple. While we are looking at the
end of
the
drill, we will also check that the POINT ANGLE is correct too!!!


(Ok guys, leave quietly..teenut has finally lost it!!)


No really, trust me. IF you look straight down on the point of a well
sharpened, standard drill, you will see
the two cutting edges, joined by the CHISEL edge which crosses over
the web
of
the drill The angle fromed by the chisel edge to each cutting edge,
should
be
ABOUT 50 deg...anywhere between 40 and sixty is ok for a first
attempt. (I
can
hear the purists and theorists screaming and lighting up their flame
throwers)
But believe me, get it in that ball park and your drill will CUT. If
the
angle
is too steep..you don't have enough clearance...negative clearance
will give
you
an angle event greater than 90 deg. Too MUCH clerance and the angle
will
appear
too shallow!


While looking at the end, check the point angle, How? Look down
the axis
of
the drill at the cutting edges. Are they straight? If so, your point
is
pretty
close to the right angle (As designed for that drill, by its
manufacturer
when
he set the helix angle and the cross section of the flute) If the
edges
appear
CONCAVE the point is too flat and if they appear CONVEX, the point is
too
"Pointy"


If your drill passes all these tests, which take but a second or two
to
perform,
THEN IT WILL CUT..pretty close to size, without chattering, chipping,
overheating, wandering or seizing. I guarantee it!


Hey, thats a pretty good start for the first drill you ever ground!
All it
takes now is a bit of practice for it to become second nature and
almost as
easy
with a little 'un or a big 'un!


Hey guys!


My apologies for "goin'on" but If it helps just one person to pluck up
the
couragre and go hand sharpen his (or Her) first drill, by hand...


Then I hope you will bear with me.


It is late, I am tired and I am not even going to proof or spell check
this,


'night all


teenut

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message In
memoriam...
Best post ever from Teenut:

Subject: drill sharpening FAQ?
From: Robert Bastow
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:59:04 GMT


Intro snipped.....

Yes, very good, however, I say switch
right to left and vice versa. Then It
makes sense to me... ;)}
phil k.

That drill sharpening jig is one of many machines that KAINDL markets in
Europe.. I don't know of any US or Canadian distributors, but there may be a
few.

I saw that same jig, new, for sale on eBay.de for about 180 EUR (225 with
the grinding disk in the video).. search kaindl-de. No mention of shipping
to the US.

In many fixtures/sharpening jigs where the drill doesn't rotate during
grinding, it's necessary to adjust/relocate the rotational position of the
drill as the point is being ground back toward the shank, since the twist
usually isn't being followed.
When grinding drill points by hand, it's an automatic adjustment made in the
motion of the drill, but clamping a drill in a fixture typically requires
resetting adjustments as the drill is shortened.

It seemed odd to me, that in the video, the holder/drill were moved forward,
then tipped up slightly - making the drill off-axis with the guide.. maybe
the operator doing the demonstration wasn't familiar with drill sharpening,
or the purpose of the guide.

--
WB
..........


"Denis G." wrote in message
...

I hand grind on the OD face and always start with the cutting edge
first. It helps me set the position I want. My drill bit grinding is
always a work in progress. Sometimes I mark the bit with a magic
marker to help to tell me how the bit is cutting and what edge to re-
dress.
There's a video of a homeowner-type German-made bit sharpener that I'd
like to try (but I don't know if it's available in the US):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9w6m...eature=related

On May 15, 5:58*pm, "Wild_Bill" wrote:
That drill sharpening jig is one of many machines that KAINDL markets in
Europe.. I don't know of any US or Canadian distributors, but there may be a
few.

I saw that same jig, new, for sale on eBay.de for about 180 EUR (225 with
the grinding disk in the video).. search kaindl-de. No mention of shipping
to the US.

In many fixtures/sharpening jigs where the drill doesn't rotate during
grinding, it's necessary to adjust/relocate the rotational position of the
drill as the point is being ground back toward the shank, since the twist
usually isn't being followed.
When grinding drill points by hand, it's an automatic adjustment made in the
motion of the drill, but clamping a drill in a fixture typically requires
resetting adjustments as the drill is shortened.

It seemed odd to me, that in the video, the holder/drill were moved forward,
then tipped up slightly - making the drill off-axis with the guide.. maybe
the operator doing the demonstration wasn't familiar with drill sharpening,
or the purpose of the guide.

--
WB
.........

"Denis G." wrote in message

...

I hand grind on the OD face and always start with the cutting edge
first. *It helps me set the position I want. *My drill bit grinding is
always a work in progress. *Sometimes I mark the bit with a magic
marker to help to tell me how the bit is cutting and what edge to re-
dress.
There's a video of a homeowner-type German-made bit sharpener that I'd
like to try (but I don't know if it's available in the US):http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9w6m...eature=related

Thanks for the info on the machine. It's a little on the pricy side,
but it's also elegant and seems to do the job simply and well.

On Tue, 15 May 2012 14:56:55 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

In memoriam...
Best post ever from Teenut:

Subject: drill sharpening FAQ?
From: Robert Bastow
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:59:04 GMT

Good one Karl, you beat me to posting it.

My copy has been formatted and most line feeds have been removed.

I really miss Teenut's advice.

Alan

On Wed, 16 May 2012 17:40:14 +0800, wrote:

On Tue, 15 May 2012 14:56:55 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

In memoriam...
Best post ever from Teenut:

Subject: drill sharpening FAQ?
From: Robert Bastow
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:59:04 GMT

Good one Karl, you beat me to posting it.

My copy has been formatted and most line feeds have been removed.

I really miss Teenut's advice.

Alan

I split a gut when I read Teenut talking about V shoot anyone grooving
the wheel and still get a tear in my eye just thinking about that
line.

Somebody was going to make a best of Teenut compendium, don't think
it ever happened.

Karl

On May 15, 3:56*pm, Karl Townsend
wrote:

Subject: drill sharpening FAQ?
From: Robert Bastow
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:59:04 GMT


My apologies for "goin'on" but If it helps just one person to pluck up
the
couragre and go hand sharpen his (or Her) first drill, by hand...

Then I hope you will bear with me.

It is late, I am tired and I am not even going to proof or spell check
this,

'night all

teenut

In general I do not like video's of how to do things. They take too
long to view. But a video of teenut grinding a drill would be really
nice. If someone did a video showing the actions while teenut's post
was read, that would almost be as good.


Dan

On May 15, 11:09*am, "PrecisionmachinisT"

Also, it's easier to overheat the edge if you start at the heel.

Personally, I grind the primary, the secondary, then finally I split the
point.

I agree that it may be easier to overheat the edge if you start at the
heel, but with a good wheel it is not a problem for me. I rarely am
doing much more than touching up the drill using the fine wheel. Any
significant amount of grinding is done on the coarse wheel.

Dan

On May 15, 9:49*am, "Jim Wilkins" wrote:
wrote



I can start from a precise position more easily than stopping in one.

jsw

I find it easier to watch the sparks to see if I am taking off an
equal amount across the cutting edge and adjust accordingly. So
starting with the heel works for me. But I think the main reason I do
it the way I do is that rotating my hand down seems more natural than
rotating my hand up.


Dan

wrote
-In general I do not like video's of how to do things. They take too
-long to view. ...
Dan

wrote
-In general I do not like video's of how to do things. They take too
-long to view. ...
-Dan

See if you like this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=AU&h...&v=0OmOQs0ziSU

jsw

On Wed, 16 May 2012 05:55:34 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

On Wed, 16 May 2012 17:40:14 +0800, wrote:

On Tue, 15 May 2012 14:56:55 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

In memoriam...
Best post ever from Teenut:

Subject: drill sharpening FAQ?
From: Robert Bastow
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:59:04 GMT

Good one Karl, you beat me to posting it.

My copy has been formatted and most line feeds have been removed.

I really miss Teenut's advice.

Alan

I split a gut when I read Teenut talking about V shoot anyone grooving
the wheel and still get a tear in my eye just thinking about that
line.

Somebody was going to make a best of Teenut compendium, don't think
it ever happened.

Karl
I am certain that Scott Logan did a compilation of Teenut's posts to
RCM but I'll be darned if I can find the link.

On May 16, 8:49*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 16 May 2012 05:55:34 -0500, Karl Townsend









wrote:
On Wed, 16 May 2012 17:40:14 +0800, wrote:

On Tue, 15 May 2012 14:56:55 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

In memoriam...
Best post ever from Teenut:

Subject: drill sharpening FAQ?
From: Robert Bastow
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:59:04 GMT

Good one Karl, you beat me to posting it.

My copy has been formatted and most line feeds have been removed.

I really miss Teenut's advice.

* * * *Alan

I split a gut when I read Teenut talking about V shoot anyone grooving
the wheel and still get a tear in my eye just thinking about that
line.

Somebody was going to make a best *of Teenut compendium, don't think
it ever happened.

Karl

I am certain that Scott Logan did a compilation of Teenut's posts to
RCM but I'll be darned if I can find the link.

Link: http://www.loganact.com/teenut/

On Wed, 16 May 2012 19:44:31 -0700 (PDT), "Denis G."
wrote:

On May 16, 8:49*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 16 May 2012 05:55:34 -0500, Karl Townsend









wrote:
On Wed, 16 May 2012 17:40:14 +0800, wrote:

On Tue, 15 May 2012 14:56:55 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

In memoriam...
Best post ever from Teenut:

Subject: drill sharpening FAQ?
From: Robert Bastow
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:59:04 GMT

Good one Karl, you beat me to posting it.

My copy has been formatted and most line feeds have been removed.

I really miss Teenut's advice.

* * * *Alan

I split a gut when I read Teenut talking about V shoot anyone grooving
the wheel and still get a tear in my eye just thinking about that
line.

Somebody was going to make a best *of Teenut compendium, don't think
it ever happened.

Karl

I am certain that Scott Logan did a compilation of Teenut's posts to
RCM but I'll be darned if I can find the link.

Link: http://www.loganact.com/teenut/
BINGO